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DOCTOR STRANGE Pre-Release - Page 12

post #551 of 1077
None of the Marvel actors were BO draws when they were hired.

Terrance Howard was bigger than RDJ at the time.
post #552 of 1077
Cumberbatch is less a box office draw and more 'added value' on top of the actual draw that is Marvel.
post #553 of 1077
And let's face it, modern BO draw is pretty much Kevin Hart or something. Not Robert Redford or Glenn Close or Kurt Russell.
post #554 of 1077
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

You joke

 

I do not!

 

If we were going by Youtube comments alone, Mads Mikkelsen would be the biggest draw of the movie. 

post #555 of 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynis View Post

And let's face it, modern BO draw is pretty much Kevin Hart or something. Not Robert Redford or Glenn Close or Kurt Russell.

Well, those names sell the validity of the project. Gary Oldman, Morgan Freeman, Michael Caine aren't drawing people in separately but together the project now has more importance.
post #556 of 1077
No superhero films today congregate thespians like that.
post #557 of 1077

You wouldn't say Cumberbatch, Ejiofor, Mikkelsen and Swinton qualify? They're younger, but they're absolutely some of the most respected thespians in the world.

post #558 of 1077

post #559 of 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post
 

You wouldn't say Cumberbatch, Ejiofor, Mikkelsen and Swinton qualify? They're younger, but they're absolutely some of the most respected thespians in the world.

 

They don't have the gravitas of the previous actors cause they haven't been around long enough and have starred in blockbusters before in one way or another. 

post #560 of 1077
Nowhere near the legacy of Caine or Oldman.

I completely agree with their respectability, but I don't think the common public see it that way. They think of Khan before Sherlock.
post #561 of 1077

What about Scott Adkins, winner of the 2010 Breakout Star award from Action on Film International Film Festival USA?

post #562 of 1077
If he had a bigger role, I'd be seeing this for Adkins and Mikkelson. That's what pulse my moviegoing-finger is on.
post #563 of 1077

Well, I disagree with both your characterization of these guys as lower status and also with the idea that Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman contributed to Nolanverse box office.

post #564 of 1077
Thread Starter 

Was it also a coincidence that Freeman and Caine starred in Now You See Me which went on to become a HUGE hit?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Probably. 

post #565 of 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynis View Post

None of the Marvel actors were BO draws when they were hired.

Terrance Howard was bigger than RDJ at the time.


Yep.  Marvel's helped make some careers, but the only real A-Lister they've hired that was already at that level is Samuel L. Jackson, with a couple "veteran A-Listers" in supporting roles (Anthony Hopkins, Glenn Close, Robert Redford).  The only other one that was close was maaaaaybe Scarlett Johannson.  Not sure if I'd count Bradley Cooper for a voice-only role (even if he did a great job).

 

That said, Marvel's casting department may easily be their MVP.

 

So...who's the next superstar Marvel will make?  Chadwick Boseman? Brie Larson (Yeah, she's got a best actress Oscar but she's still low on the public awareness-o-meter)? 

post #566 of 1077

Captain Marvel is going to be huge.

post #567 of 1077

Both Boseman and Larson will be huge.  I think both films will do very well.

post #568 of 1077

I know this is incredibly shallow, but Danvers Captain Marvel has an amazing costume. Just immediately iconic, it pops. I also feel like Marvel will feel pressure not just to live up to their first female solo film, but also the fact that MARVEL is in her name.

 

She should, for all intents and purposes, be Marvel's Superman. The comics have been positioning her that way recently with more high-profile roles, such as in Civil War II.

 

I wonder when she'll get introduced. Cameo in Guardians 2?

post #569 of 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

I know this is incredibly shallow, but Danvers Captain Marvel has an amazing costume. Just immediately iconic, it pops. I also feel like Marvel will feel pressure not just to live up to their first female solo film, but also the fact that MARVEL is in her name.

 

She should, for all intents and purposes, be Marvel's Superman. The comics have been positioning her that way recently with more high-profile roles, such as in Civil War II.

 

I wonder when she'll get introduced. Cameo in Guardians 2?

 

Hell yeah, high-heeled S&M boots, battle swimsuit AND uh...waist scarf? Hip drapes? Whatever, it's hard to top that on the icon-o-meter:

 

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 70

post #570 of 1077

Um, CAPTAIN Marvel

 

post #571 of 1077

Psst, I guess that one's OK too. By the way, this popped up in my last Google search:

 

 

Man has poor Carol had some rough costumes (and yes nerds, I know she's Binary here). Glad they managed to come up with something good enough to put in a movie, because yikes. 

post #572 of 1077

It's going to be 2000 again as the nerdiest of nerd stench complains about how Carol will never get her powers wiped out by Rogue and end up in a coma.

 

Sigh.

post #573 of 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

It's going to be 2000 again as the nerdiest of nerd stench complains about how Carol will never get her powers wiped out by Rogue and end up in a coma.

 

Sigh.

 

As a character who was always on the periphery of comics I actually read, reading through her Wiki article I can't believe how little I actually knew about her. I was vaguely aware of the Rogue thing and her subsequently becoming Binary, but I had no idea she went by Warbird for like a hot minute. 100% not intended as snark, but I'm genuinely curious: does the general consensus seem to be that this is a pretty iconic character, or is it a case like Namor where they have enough of a history and a following to keep them in print, but they never really crossed into the mainstream consciousness at all? Not that I think it matters one iota to how the movie will be received, but I'm curious if to the general public this is a "oh yeah, I think I've heard of them" thing like Iron Man or Captain America, or if it's going to be a Guardians-esque "who?" reaction. 

post #574 of 1077

No one has heard of Carol Danvers. Not your mom or your girlfriend or Joe Sixpack. Marvel didn't really pay attention to her until about four years ago when she got soft rebooted as Captain Marvel.

 

New costume, new status quo, and new writer in the form of Kelly Sue DeDonnick who has made a name for herself as being a counter-culturish feminist radical (see her indie comic Bitch Planet).

 

The thing is, Carol has always had a political angle built in to her considering the MS. in her original incarnation was a big deal in the '70s.

 

But yeah, I'm thinking the movie mostly uses the post-Captain comics as reference, and mostly ignores everything from Rogue to Binary to that time she got taken to a hell dimension, raped and then gave birth to her rapist's baby who was a reincarnation of said rapist.

post #575 of 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

But yeah, I'm thinking the movie mostly uses the post-Captain comics as reference, and mostly ignores everything from Rogue to Binary to that time she got taken to a hell dimension, raped and then gave birth to her rapist's baby who was a reincarnation of said rapist.

 

Oh comics.

 

On a related note, I was discussing this with a co-worker who challenged me to name my favorite female Marvel superhero who A. Wasn't on the X-Men and B. Wasn't a permutation of an existing male character. Thanks to the movies/Netflix I've now got a couple of strong contenders in Black Widow, Jessica Jones and Gamora, but based on the comics I actually read when I was growing up? Wasp, I guess? Slim pickin's. 

 

It also made me realize just how fucking old 95% of these characters are. I mean Deadpool is like the hip new guy and he's from '91. Hell, even Squirrel Girl was apparently '92. I can't even really blame Marvel too much because of their incredibly insulated audience who can barely accept Wolverine but he's a lady now OK, I guess I'll buy it. That said, now that we're reaching deeper into the B and C list characters, I'll be honest: I kind of hope Marvel just says "fuck it" and introduces some new characters directly into the cinematic universe. Make up for lost time!

 

EDIT: And just to head it off at the potential pass, no I don't think Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. counts nor should any sane person.

post #576 of 1077

Last stream-of-consciousness post, I promise, but just a weird observation: speaking of the hoary nature of these characters and gender-swapping, based on some Wiki-fu it seems like nearly every single major male superhero has either A. Had a female variant (i.e. Spider-Woman, She-Hulk, Namorita etc.), B. Had a female character take on the role (i.e. Captain Marvel, Thor) or C. Been female in some sort of alternate reality/What if? story. The biggest exception I could find (again, based on 2am bored Googlin') was Luke Cage.

 

Speaking of "holy shit we've been writing this for so...long..." inspired creative decisions and Luke Cage, it's proving really hard to Google but until someone disproves it I'm going to go ahead and claim that while we've seen many minority versions of popular superheroes, Frank Castle and I guess Lois Lane (she must have had superpowers once right?) are, as far as I know, the only superhero characters to literally become black at some point. Prove me wrong people!

post #577 of 1077

Writers for Marvel (and I'm sure DC) don't own the rights to any new characters they create; haven't done so since the 1980's, which was the last time (dun dun DUN!) you saw interesting new characters. 

 

Splatoon: you forgot how every major character also has a "young Edgy sidekick who assumes his "father's" identity, like Ben Reilly becoming Spider-Man (OK technically he was a clone but still), or Thunderstrike taking over for Thor, and of course Azreal becoming the Techno Batman. 

 

The Marvel 2099 lines took it even further, with future folk randomly assuming the costumed identity's of their Classic Counterparts, so some cop also loses his family and becomes the new Punisher, (Doom 2099 was the exception). 

post #578 of 1077
Does Nick Fury count? His Ultimate characterization is pretty much the dominant Fury now, thanks to Samuel L Jackson.
post #579 of 1077

I mean, Thunderstrike went around with like a Mace or something....

post #580 of 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post

Does Nick Fury count? His Ultimate characterization is pretty much the dominant Fury now, thanks to Samuel L Jackson.

 

Unless he literally went into a machine white and came out black, I stand by my original assertion. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
 

Writers for Marvel (and I'm sure DC) don't own the rights to any new characters they create; haven't done so since the 1980's, which was the last time (dun dun DUN!) you saw interesting new characters. 

 

Splatoon: you forgot how every major character also has a "young Edgy sidekick who assumes his "father's" identity, like Ben Reilly becoming Spider-Man (OK technically he was a clone but still), or Thunderstrike taking over for Thor, and of course Azreal becoming the Techno Batman. 

 

The Marvel 2099 lines took it even further, with future folk randomly assuming the costumed identity's of their Classic Counterparts, so some cop also loses his family and becomes the new Punisher, (Doom 2099 was the exception). 

 

Yeah, it seems like the creator owned scene is where a lot of the interesting stuff is happening, so when am I getting my damn Atomic Robo movie?

 

I remember having a few issues of some Avengers book as a kid where it felt like I was seeing double as you had Thor/Thunderstrike, Iron Man/War Machine and Captain America/U.S. Agent all teaming up. Ultimate redundancy! I'll admit though to having a soft spot for a lot of the 2099 stuff, I wouldn't say things like The Punisher were good per se, but they were stupid fun and some of them went in interesting directions (like the Punisher basically becoming a straight-up supervillain). 

post #581 of 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

But yeah, I'm thinking the movie mostly uses the post-Captain comics as reference, and mostly ignores everything from Rogue to Binary to that time she got taken to a hell dimension, raped and then gave birth to her rapist's baby who was a reincarnation of said rapist.

Don't forget she was brainwashed into loving her rapist, and the Avengers initially treat her out-of-nowhere pregnancy as a joke, and ultimately just let her go off with said rapist back into the hell dimension with an attitude of "Well, let's just hope everything works itself out!".

 

I mean, that really has to be one of the most loathsome stories a major comic book company has ever published.

post #582 of 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatoon View Post

100% not intended as snark, but I'm genuinely curious: does the general consensus seem to be that this is a pretty iconic character, or is it a case like Namor where they have enough of a history and a following to keep them in print, but they never really crossed into the mainstream consciousness at all?

When the company lifted the "Captain Marvel" moniker off of its last holder, a forgettable Kree named Genis-Vell, and handed it to Danvers just a few years ago, it seemed like the reception was largely, "hell yeah, Danvers deserves this and so do Marvel superheroines in general, let's take this ball and run with it all the way to the movies." Danvers was a long-suffering D-lister who had finally got her place in the sun, and having a female character carry the literal name of the studio was seen as progress.

Ironically, the character who held the "Captain Marvel" name before Genis-Vell was a black woman named Monica Rambeau, who operated under that name for a period stretching from the early 80's to some point in the mid-90's.
post #583 of 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post


When the company lifted the "Captain Marvel" moniker off of its last holder, a forgettable Kree named Genis-Vell, and handed it to Danvers just a few years ago, it seemed like the reception was largely, "hell yeah, Danvers deserves this and so do Marvel superheroines in general, let's take this ball and run with it all the way to the movies." Danvers was a long-suffering D-lister who had finally got her place in the sun, and having a female character carry the literal name of the studio was seen as progress.

Ironically, the character who held the "Captain Marvel" name before Genis-Vell was a black woman named Monica Rambeau, who operated under that name for a period stretching from the early 80's to some point in the mid-90's.

 

Totally fair, and like I said, I don't really have a dog in this fight outside of Monica Rambeau (I'd ask where my Nextwave movie is at, but I'm pretty sure that film would make -3 sense to non-comic nerds). That said, my main point is just that I'd curious if you had asked the average person pre-movie announcement "who is Captain Marvel" what the reaction would have been. For me 100% the most recognizable has to be the DC version, but he hasn't been called that in...what, years? And the original Marvel version had that iconic death but...not much else. Throw in 3-4 Z-listers who have also held the name, and I wonder if (again, with the exception of Guardians) this might be the least recognizable character yet to get a major Marvel release. 

 

EDIT: According to Wiki, not counting alternate versions 7 (!?) people have held the Captain Marvel name. 

post #584 of 1077
Thread Starter 

Is there a reason Danvers is Captain Marvel whilst Kamala Khan is only Ms. Marvel? 

post #585 of 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post
 

Is there a reason Danvers is Captain Marvel whilst Kamala Khan is only Ms. Marvel? 

 

Danvers is actually in the military (Air Force if I'm not mistaken) whilst Kamala is a young unwed teen. 

I do wonder if they'll actually add Kamala in the future. I hope they do as she's very much the best thing to come out of Marvel's current faux-progressive phase.

post #586 of 1077

Well Carol actually was a captain in the Air Force, and Kamala is a teenage girl (who was a big fangirl of Carol's and modeled herself off her).

post #587 of 1077
Thread Starter 

This makes sense. 

 

Whichever Strange family member takes over from Stephen Strange better have a medical doctorate. Mr Strange sounds like the creepy guy who films his neighbors kids from between his bedroom curtains every evening.

post #588 of 1077

When Dr. Strange stepped down as Sorcerer Supreme for a few years there, he was replaced by...Brother Voodoo.

post #589 of 1077

And he became DOCTOR Voodoo! The mantle of supreme magical power actually comes with a free PhD. 

 

It would be kind of hilariously appropriate for Doctor Strange to be the first Marvel moobie to do really poorly at the Box Office. If only because Doctor Strange books have notoriously never been big sellers.

post #590 of 1077

Wait, he wasn't a graduate of Voodoo U? But they do it so well there!

post #591 of 1077
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename View Post
 

And he became DOCTOR Voodoo! The mantle of supreme magical power actually comes with a free PhD. 

 

It would be kind of hilariously appropriate for Doctor Strange to be the first Marvel moobie to do really poorly at the Box Office. If only because Doctor Strange books have notoriously never been big sellers.

 

I can't see this failing. The only competing movie on its opening weekend is Dreamworks' Trolls which looks to skewer younger in terms of target audience. I certainly can't see Mel Gibson's Hacksaw Ridge being a bigger release than either, and the previous weeks releases probably won't stand up to it (unless the audience for Inferno is stronger than I'm anticipating). 

 

I'm expecting Ant Man numbers, unless the reviews are awful.

post #592 of 1077

The beauty of the Marvel machine is I'm not terribly excited about the movie, although I'm sure it will do okay if not substantial box office numbers, but I can't wait to see Cumberbatch's Strange interacting with the Avengers.

post #593 of 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dent6084 View Post
 

Don't forget she was brainwashed into loving her rapist, and the Avengers initially treat her out-of-nowhere pregnancy as a joke, and ultimately just let her go off with said rapist back into the hell dimension with an attitude of "Well, let's just hope everything works itself out!".

 

I mean, that really has to be one of the most loathsome stories a major comic book company has ever published.


It really was, and Chris Claremont definitely agreed, given the fairly epic ass-chewing he had Carol give the Avengers when she returned from that ordeal (which basically led to her being an X-Men supporting character for several years, wandering in space with Cyclops' space-pirate dad and his merry band of alien misfits not to be confused with the modern Guardians of the Galaxy).

 

But I think we can be relatively assured that storyline is thankfully never getting anywhere near a movie screen with Disney at the helm.

post #594 of 1077

Who wrote it?

post #595 of 1077
David Micheline, if I recall right. He was a sometimes excellent writer (on Iron Man, esp.) But that Ms. Marvel story is truly awful. I've always wondered whether Claremont had Rogue absorb Carol's personality and powers in order to keep his character in the X-Men stable and out of other writers' hands... Because otherwise that wasn't treating the character especially well, either.

Carol Danvers has always been a character of unrealized potential (in-story and out), and that's more or less continued now. It was a good idea to give her the Captain Marvel moniker (though I'm also a way - back fan of Monica Rambeau), but all that's come with is a pretty nifty uniform and a shitty haircut. They still haven't done anything really good with her-- I dropped out of the first title when the resorted to wiping her memories-- again-- and the most recent series isn't much better from what I've read.
post #596 of 1077

I like her hair...

post #597 of 1077
Brother Voodoo actually has a PhD in Psychology. Whatever jackass writer thought "Brother Voodoo" was a terrific name, also thought it would be a funny pun to make him a headshrinker in his civilian identity.

Really don't know why they didn't just create a new character if they wanted Strange to step down from the Sorceror Supreme mantle for a while. Brother Voodoo's so racist, he's radioactive.
post #598 of 1077
post #599 of 1077
if only Harmon were truly allowed to bring his darker sensibilities to marble

bring Roiland and the Rick & Morty writers on!!!

This just seems like big productions bringing on people like Patton Oswalt on to add some zingers to the movie late in the game. So nothing particularly new aside from the fact that it's Harmon.
post #600 of 1077

If we're going to get some animated show writers to punch up Doctor Strange, it really ought to be the Venture Bros. guys.

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