CHUD.com Community › Forums › THE MAIN SEWER › Movie Miscellany › Western Society, Pop Culture, and the Cacophony of Social Media
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Western Society, Pop Culture, and the Cacophony of Social Media - Page 6

post #251 of 4785
JOHN GOODMAN!!!

On the topic of personal responsibility, it doesn't seem like that's what this Reinvention Initiative is about. At least not directly. It's just about the ratio of the severity of online public shaming being so lopsided to whatever the actual offense was.



Also, just started reading Ronson's SO YOU'VE BEEN PUBLICLY SHAMED.
post #252 of 4785

So apparently I'm not allowed to say "retarded" anymore?

 

Fuck, that's retarded.

post #253 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post

So apparently I'm not allowed to say "retarded" anymore?

Fuck, that's retarded.
The correct term is "Oscar bait' now
post #254 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post

The correct term is "Oscar bait' now


Soooooo going to start using this.
post #255 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post

Soooooo going to start using this.
That ma-ma-ma-makes me happy.

simple_jack_poster460.jpg
post #256 of 4785
I've found people who don't normally allow the R-word are pretty forgiving about the one specific context we're discussing because they understand the joke is more about the cynicism of Hollywood than anything else.
post #257 of 4785
Street justice for those humourless wankers!

http://youtu.be/yioJQFrqMXM
post #258 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Slim View Post

Street justice for those humourless wankers!

http://youtu.be/yioJQFrqMXM

 

 

I'll take "Shit I can never put on my Facebook feed" for $500, Alex. 

 

 

That's hilarious. 

post #259 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Slim View Post

I've found people who don't normally allow the R-word are pretty forgiving about the one specific context we're discussing because they understand the joke is more about the cynicism of Hollywood than anything else.

 

 

Oh, I don't think we're talking about the "full retard" scene. We're talking about actually calling people retards because they're acting all retarded. 

post #260 of 4785
Thread Starter 
The last few posts made me realize that I don't use the word "retarded" often or at all. It's not even because it may offend someone, it's just something that never found its way into my vocabulary like "rad".


*Unless the thing I'm describing is so cool that it's clean. Then it's definitely clean and rad.
post #261 of 4785

  As a kid with a subscription to BMX Plus, I used rad on a regular basis.

post #262 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

Unless the thing I'm describing is so cool that it's clean. Then it's definitely clean and rad.
But is it clean, rad, and powerful?
post #263 of 4785
Retarded is now "derpy" in my household. Because I have a kid and dont want unplanned parent-teacher meetings.

And because I don't have the patience to explain the Oscar bait joke to a 10 year old.
post #264 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post
 

 

 

Oh, I don't think we're talking about the "full retard" scene. We're talking about actually calling people retards because they're acting all retarded. 


Yeah, it's just a fun-ass word to call people who are acting like retards.

post #265 of 4785
Thread Starter 
Sounds like the same excuse people have for using the word "fag". I'm not complaining, just making an observation. These things always fall apart when people try to make distinctions and justify usage.
post #266 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

I'm not complaining, just making an observation. These things always fall apart when people try to make distinctions and justify usage.
Like "n*****!"
post #267 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post



Sounds like the same excuse people have for using the word "fag". I'm not complaining, just making an observation. These things always fall apart when people try to make distinctions and justify usage.



 



 



Hmmm. 



 



 



Sure, tear me an asshole for this, but "retard" actually applies to stupid behavior in that people who are mentally handicapped (aka "retarded") are, well, not smart. So really, you call someone or something retarded, you're saying that it is acting like, or conceived by, someone who has a brain injury. 



 



 



"Fag" or "gay" as applied to something that isn't so good (that JOHN CARTER movie was gay) is a little uglier. Really, my experience of homosexuals is generally that they're....um, pretty much like everyone else, as far as wanting to get married, have kids, have nice stuff, etc goes. Exceptions made for some gay clubs, where gay guys are FAAAABUUUULOOOOOUUUSSSSSS. (and, as an aside, love the shit out of me for some reason. But I digress....) 



 



 



N*****....ugh. Worst part is that gangsta rappers embraced the word, which made for a nice and confusing double standard for all people involved. I think I've used it once in the presence of a black person, and I was doing a Chris Rock routine for him; fortunately he thought it was pretty hilarious (*large exhale* at the time, because I knew I was taking a swim in shark-infested waters; but he knew me, we were cool). But yeah, if there's one word I could erase from existence, that would be on the short list. 



 



 



 



 



In the sense that all 3 words are taking things a person has no control over, and using that to equivocate their condition (mental handicap, sexuality, race) is "bad", yeah, it's pretty indefensible.....



 



 



....and you've gotten me to reconsider using "retarded" and I'm not going to do it anymore. 

post #268 of 4785
Thread Starter 
No, I don't know many people who justify the use of that word. It's not nearly as acceptable coming out of the mouth of anyone who isn't black.

Also, it's a not a double standard and I hate these conversations. It's a loaded word and just because one culture has transformed and embraced in their own way doesn't turn it into a time share for other cultures. Black people don't need to occasionally loan it out it to everyone else for "proper, situational usage". End of story.
post #269 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

No, I don't know many people who justify the use of that word. It's not nearly as acceptable coming out of the mouth of anyone who isn't black.
A-ha!
post #270 of 4785
Thread Starter 
Okay? You really shouldn't have any problem with that. It wasn't weaponized against you. If someone shoots me, I survive it, and then they come back years and years later and asks me to return or share the bullet I've since claimed as my property, I'm going to tell them to go fuck themselves.
post #271 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

No, I don't know many people who justify the use of that word. It's not nearly as acceptable coming out of the mouth of anyone who isn't black.

Also, it's a not a double standard and I hate these conversations. It's a loaded word and just because one culture has transformed and embraced in their own way doesn't turn it into a time share for other cultures. Black people don't need to occasionally loan it out it to everyone else for "proper, situational usage". End of story.

Precisely. Hence why the "WHY DO THEY GET TO USE IT!!!" so damned entitled. If you're going to use it, use it. But don't get bitchy because someone calls you out for using it.

 

That also goes for Retard or Fag (I don't personally use those words myself). If you're going to use the words, use them--but have some damn self-awareness about. Some people get, rightfully so, defensive about it. Know who you're audience is and be smart about it.

post #272 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

Okay? You really shouldn't have any problem with that. It wasn't weaponized against you. If someone shoots me, I survive it, and then they come back years and years later and asks me to return or share the the bullet I've since claimed as my property, I'm going to tell them to go fuck themselves.
Huh?

Also, I like how people always assume that anybody taking issue with the double-standard around the N-word just wants to slur black people with impunity. I don't use that word, and I don't want to. I'm not even going to jump on people for using it; it's just faintly bothersome to me that it's "okay" under any circumstances. I mean, is it offensive or isn't it? (And don't give me "context!" if you were just saying that offensive language doesn't become unoffensive in context.)
post #273 of 4785
Thread Starter 
I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying that the debate doesn't really belong to you. If I'm going to argue for or against something, I'd prefer to have a dog in the fight. If you can't show your dog, then keep him indoors.
post #274 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

No, I don't know many people who justify the use of that word. It's not nearly as acceptable coming out of the mouth of anyone who isn't black.

Also, it's a not a double standard and I hate these conversations. It's a loaded word and just because one culture has transformed and embraced in their own way doesn't turn it into a time share for other cultures. Black people don't need to occasionally loan it out it to everyone else for "proper, situational usage". End of story.

 

 

I'm not sure how to properly put this, so my apologies if it's lumpy.....

 

 

For one, "one culture" sells short black America; they are NOT one culture and I know a (well, maybe "know of") a large % who fucking HATE that word, absent context. 

 

Secondly, you run into situations of people who are NOT black, but get black culture, and are accepted as cool by the black people they know, being in the shit because someone they DON'T know takes issue with them using that word - situation of 11 people, 10 of whom are black, one who is not, 9 of whom are friends with the one who is not; the one drops the n-bomb in conversation and the one who is not his friend takes what he feels is legitimate offense to it...may result in irrevocable action (and yes, I am implying, fairly or not,  that somebody may get shot). 

 

 

I guess IMO it's a word I don't and won't use, but people can't expect to drop it with impunity culturally and expect that there won't be some collateral damage to ALLIES because of the fact there is a "you can use it, you can't" nebulous standard. 

post #275 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying that the debate doesn't really belong to you. If I'm going to argue for or against something, I'd prefer to have a dog in the fight. If you can't show your dog, then keep him indoors.

My dog in the fight is that I'd like all people to be treated equally. 


Which is going to happen right after a leprechaun unicorn craps a pot o'gold on my front lawn, but still I can dare to dream. 

post #276 of 4785
Uh oh, we've reached that point!
post #277 of 4785
Thread Starter 
Chavez, did you honestly need me to clarify and qualify my use of "one culture"? Did you honestly believe that I lumped in an entire people, intentionally or otherwise?
post #278 of 4785
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Uh oh, we've reached that point!

Yes, we have, and it's just as ridiculous as one would expect it to be.
post #279 of 4785
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post

My dog in the fight is that I'd like all people to be treated equally. 



Which is going to happen right after a leprechaun unicorn craps a pot o'gold on my front lawn, but still I can dare to dream. 

Your concept of equality as it pertains to this conversation is rather specious. I don't use the words "bitch" or "cunt" or "whore" or "slut" either, but most women I know use those words all the time. I neither question or give a fuck why they do, but I know they're not words I would say because I specifically choose not to "genderize" insults. I have no reason to use those words, and if for some reason, I did use one and a woman became upset with me over it, I would not defend it by saying "but plenty of women call each other that all the time!!!".

It's an absurd argument.
post #280 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post


Your concept of equality as it pertains to this conversation is rather specious. I don't use the words "bitch" or "cunt" or "whore" or "slut" either, but most women I know use those words all the time. I neither question or give a fuck why they do, but I know they're not words I would say because I specifically choose not to "genderize" insults.

 

 

Sure, but does that excuse someone OF ANY GENDER from using those insults? Does the fact that someone is dropping an insult on someone else that can be turned on them make it acceptable? 

 

 

I don't know that it does. I think demeaning is demeaning. And I'm not trying to argue this from a "white privilege" angle, I'm trying to argue it from a humanist angle (and apparently failing, according to Nooj). 

post #281 of 4785
WHAT DID I DO???
post #282 of 4785
Hey. Be cool, my ninjaz.

2012-10-29.gif
post #283 of 4785
Thread Starter 
I would agree that you're failing, Chavez, and not because I believe you harbor ill-intent, but because your argument will not result in any tangible benefit to you.

When opposing politicians and critics call Barack Obama every word under the Sun except for the word they *really* want to use, it's absence should tell you about it's power. That word is like fucking Sauron. You can see its flaming eye between the lines of Giuliani telling Obama he should be more like Bill Cosby and that he's responsible for the behavior of protesters in Ferguson.

That word has a metric shit-ton of power, and no, for the foreseeable future, you do NOT get to argue with black people on how THEY choose to use or not use it.
post #284 of 4785
"But when I say Retard it's about relative intelligence! When I say N***** it's about relative whiteness! As long as it's accurate it's not pejorative!"
post #285 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

I would agree that you're failing, Chavez, and not because I believe you harbor ill-intent, but because your argument will not result in any tangible benefit to you.

When opposing politicians and critics call Barack Obama every word under the Sun except for the word they *really* want to use, it's absence should tell you about it's power. That word is like fucking Sauron. You can see its flaming eye between the lines of Giuliani telling Obama he should be more like Bill Cosby and that he's responsible for the behavior of protesters in Ferguson.

That word has a metric shit-ton of power, and no, for the foreseeable future, you do NOT get to argue with black people on how THEY choose to use or not use it.

 

 

I don't think it's the word in and of itself; I think the elephant in the room is that they don't want to address they don't like a lot of what he does because he's "not us." 

 

 

Maybe I'm splitting hairs on this, but I certainly believe there's a racist element in the hatred of Obama; but that element is going to exist whether or not the word "nigger" exists or not, or is acceptable or not. 

 

One of the key elements in human nature is that there is a binary "us"/"not us" distinction; and while a lot of times "us" falls along easily detected, ethnic/religious/whatever lines, in probably as many cases "not us" is as arbitrary as one could imagine (say, The Troubles in Ireland or even Hatfields vs McCoys). Obama being a dark-skinned guy with a Muslim name, it's very easy for a certain subset of people to regard him as "not us"; even if it's not racist per se (and I'll wholeheartedly grant that there's a disturbing streak of racism in the anti-Obamaism you see). 

 

I guess in my mind it's a matter of the word being regarded as ABSOLUTELY indefensible to use. Except sometimes. By some people. Maybe. In context. 

post #286 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

 ...not because I believe you harbor ill-intent

 

 

I have black relatives! And friends! I'll bang a black chick if it helps! 

post #287 of 4785

FWIW, whether I take some lumps here or not, THIS is the sort of dialogue we should be having all over the US about shit. Being polite obviously isn't solving the fucking problem. 

 

Although, unless I'm missing something, I'm 2nd behind Nooj in "most minority person in the thread" 

post #288 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post

Although, unless I'm missing something, I'm 2nd behind Nooj in "most minority person in the thread"
Naw, lots of people are from Wisconsin.
post #289 of 4785

....and thinking about it, I don't want my posts to read as a scolding "HERE IS HOW YOU SHOULD USE *WORD*", my thought process is more "you are using *word* this way, and here are some problems with that, from my perspective"

post #290 of 4785
But "I say crazy bullshit amongst my inner circle of friends because it's safe to amuse ourselves that way" is a fairly universal thing that has nothing at all to do with starting real conversations about much of anything.
post #291 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Slim View Post

But "I say crazy bullshit amongst my inner circle of friends because it's safe to amuse ourselves that way" is a fairly universal thing that has nothing at all to do with starting real conversations about much of anything.

 

 

I am going to assume this is directed at me, and I don't see where I put this forward as any sort of defense of anything. If I did my bad, because shit you do among a circle of friends is definitely an exception to any rule, and I'm attempting to put this discussion on as broad a field as possible (or at least as broad a field as a cracker-ass internet MB will allow)

post #292 of 4785
Thread Starter 
Chavez, if it's really so important, you can poll the well over a billion black or biracial people (of African or other ancestry) on the planet over their feelings about the word, its history, and the context in which it can or cannot be used, but I'm not entirely confident that you'll be able to clear the necessary spots on your calendar for such a task.

It may ultimately be easier to let time and the culture move that one along. Shit, even Hal Jordan doesn't have the answer, and he's explicitly designated to watch over Sector 2814.*









*Yes, yes, I'm referencing *that* issue and there really is no need to post a visual aide to "complete" the joke.
post #293 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post



I think demeaning is demeaning. And I'm not trying to argue this from a "white privilege" angle, I'm trying to argue it from a humanist angle (and apparently failing, according to Nooj). 

The humanist angle you're going for is REALLY hard to pull of in situations like this because it's how you get to the BLACK LIVES MATTER hashtag during a very specific movement and people trying to poke in and say, "Well, I think ALL LIVES MATTER!"

That may be true, but jesus NOT THE RIGHT TIME.

And that's generally the case all the time with the n-word.
post #294 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post


The humanist angle you're going for is REALLY hard to pull of in situations like this because it's how you get to the BLACK LIVES MATTER hashtag during a very specific movement and people trying to poke in and say, "Well, I think ALL LIVES MATTER!"

That may be true, but jesus NOT THE RIGHT TIME.

And that's generally the case all the time with the n-word

 

 

Sure, fine (and not in the sarcastic sense)....I guess I regard it as a somewhat Orwellian conundrum - "why address language when we have REAL PROBLEMS" vs "maybe the language is part of the issue" 

 

 

I don't mean to pretend I have anything resembling an answer here, it's just a matter of "not now!" - well, WHY NOT now? And this all moves forward from the concept our little corner of the internet matters for shit, but fuck, maybe it does. 

post #295 of 4785
Thread Starter 
I'm not demanding we do it, but I think it might be for the best if we close the library on this one. If I'd known my little observation about the use of the word retarded would have opened the door to this shit, I would have let it be.

I'm suggesting we move on because this doesn't feel like a conversation that will end without someone saying something they can't easily walk back from - though I would argue that the absolute edge has been very well danced upon.


There was a whole other thing about perception and usage that I wanted to get into before all of this, but now I've lost my taste for it.
post #296 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

Chavez, if it's really so important, you can poll the well over a billion black or biracial people (of African or other ancestry) on the planet over their feelings about the word, its history, and the context in which it can or cannot be used, but I'm not entirely confident that you'll be able to clear the necessary spots on your calendar for such a task.

It may ultimately be easier to let time and the culture move that one along. 

 

 

Even if I did, I'd only have consensus, which would still allow (x)% of individuals to feel aggrieved by the usage. 

 

 

And by my count, we're at over 30 yrs of culture and time NOT moving this one along. It's in stasis, of the horrible/except sometimes variety.....and I don't think it does anyone any favors. 

post #297 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

I'm not demanding we do it, but I think it might be for the best if we close the library on this one. If I'd known my little observation about the use of the word retarded would have opened the door to this shit, I would have let it be.

I'm suggesting we move on because this doesn't feel like a conversation that will end without someone saying something they can't easily walk back from - though I would argue that the absolute edge has been very well danced upon.

 

 

I am fine with that. I don't know if I'm the person you're referencing, but I've considered all my opinions here and would have zero issue defending them. I just think overall, it's an elephant-in-the-room dialogue that unfortunately will need to be had at some point, and I think it's an issue where language does have an effect on action. 

 

 

And I truly regard this conversation as a "debate" with both side shooting for understanding rather than an "argument" where someone is trying to win. 

post #298 of 4785
In this word's case, I don't think it's the root problem that needs to be solved first.

It's more of a symptom/side-effect that has branched out into its own tangled web.

But should RACISM be solved ever... I imagine the baggage the word has would shift.

But that's super unrealistic.
post #299 of 4785
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

In this word's case, I don't think it's the root problem that needs to be solved first.

It's more of a symptom/side-effect that has branched out into its own tangled web.

But should RACISM be solved ever... I imagine the baggage the word has would shift.

But that's super unrealistic.

 Right, in the context of the us/not-us dichotomy, if it came down to all humanity having the same hue, eye/hair color, and religion, wars would be started over "HEY THAT GUY IS TALLER THAN I AM!" because that's how we roll. 

post #300 of 4785
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post


I am fine with that. I don't know if I'm the person you're referencing

No.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Movie Miscellany
CHUD.com Community › Forums › THE MAIN SEWER › Movie Miscellany › Western Society, Pop Culture, and the Cacophony of Social Media