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Western Society, Pop Culture, and the Cacophony of Social Media - Page 88

post #4351 of 4697

it's always something for CARNO!

 

 

"I'm trying to pull myself up with my bootstraps!!!"

 

"eh, you should get new ones"

 

"aw..."

post #4352 of 4697

But not for nothing!

post #4353 of 4697

please CARNO

 

my voice...

post #4354 of 4697

post #4355 of 4697
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
 

One of my favorite comedies in the last ten years is Lynn Shelton's Hump Day (with Mark Duplass and Josh Leonard), a movie that is, at its heart, about male relationships. Now, there might be a mitigating factor in that the film was rather heavily improvised, but I think it nails quite a bit about being a guy in your 30's, facing the specter of growing up and having a family, but still having this nagging connection to your early 20's and intellectualizing the pursuit of really dumb shit in an attempt to alleviate your anxiety.

 

When I saw it back in 2009-2010, it never crossed my mind to question if the gender of the director was at all an issue in its ability to tell the story it wanted to tell. I laughed a lot, recognized a bit of myself in it, and it felt right to me and that's all that mattered.

 

I suspect that a different perspective did nothing but help it.

 

I had a similar experience in 2015 when I saw EDEN (by Mia Hansen Love) and WE ARE YOUR FRIENDS (by the Catfish guy) about a month or so apart. Both had similar stories - disaffected young men discovering a calling/life through EDM/dance music. I think the fact that Hansen-Love's film had a different approach or perspective was what made it resonate with me more than Catfish guy's film, which, despite some good parts, was pretty paint-by-numbers. 

post #4356 of 4697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post
 

don carnoleone, please...

post #4357 of 4697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post
 

The entitlement isn't going to land you gigs. 

 

Colin Trevverow has a career because of that entitlement and his privilege as a straight white guy. He was given an opportunity to direct Jurassic World because he "reminded" Brad Bird of himself on the basis of tiny indie "safety not guaranteed." Meanwhile Lake Bell is making no bones about the fact she wants to direct a Marvel movie or a James Bond, but isn't given that opportunity because nobody can look at In A World and see themselves. 

 

Did I say Colin Trevverow has a career? 

 

I meant...had. 

post #4358 of 4697
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

don carnoleone, please...

 

Okay, expect a horse head at 5:30 am. 

post #4359 of 4697
Entitlements for all! I'll settle for a miniture American flag tho!
post #4360 of 4697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post
 

 

Okay, expect a horse head at 5:30 am. 

have you even seen the movie?

 

I'm not the one who's supposed to get a horse head!  (if I'm supposed to be Johnny Fontane in this situation)

post #4361 of 4697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

 

Colin Trevverow has a career because of that entitlement and his privilege as a straight white guy. He was given an opportunity to direct Jurassic World because he "reminded" Brad Bird of himself on the basis of tiny indie "safety not guaranteed." Meanwhile Lake Bell is making no bones about the fact she wants to direct a Marvel movie or a James Bond, but isn't given that opportunity because nobody can look at In A World and see themselves. 

 

Did I say Colin Trevverow has a career? 

 

I meant...had. 

 

I didn't like Safety Not Guaranteed, but someobody did. And somebody liked Colin and somebody decided he'd be great for a Jurassic Park movie.

 

You are saying Colin is picked by color and gender. What's your ACTUAL evidence of this? Other than he's white and male. Or are we just going to decide that that's always enough to build conspiracies?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

have you even seen the movie?

 

I'm not the one who's supposed to get a horse head!  (if I'm supposed to be Johnny Fontane in this situation)

 

You get to place your own horse heads around here, nooj. 

post #4362 of 4697

ehehehehe

 

CARNO just has a hard time processing institutional biases

 

glad that we agree on safety not guaranteed though!

 

IN A WORLD is much better!

post #4363 of 4697

Look I will not put up with these attacks on Safety Not Guaranteed. And to be honest I want to see this book movie he did more than anything right now.

post #4364 of 4697

safety not good

 

you SHOULD see henrybook

 

though I maintain that it reads a lot more insane than it actually plays out (pretty blandly)... especially after the internet has already had its way with it 

post #4365 of 4697

Did you miss the part where I said that Brad Bird recommended Colin for the JW job because Colin "reminded" him of early Brad Bird/himself? 

 

Did that have to do with the quality of SNG, did it have to do with the fact that Brad Bird might (as we all do) have had a hard time recognizing himself in a comparative female filmmaker (again, like Lake Bell), or that Bird was conditioned (as we all are) to identify with people who look like him, i.e., straight white guys? 

 

Spoiler: It can be both.

 

This isn't just about Colin, btw. It's about, as nooj said, institutional bias and the systems set up to reinforce those.

 

Again, Lake Bell has been on the record about how she'd like to direct a big studio movie for Marvel or DC or Bond, and "In A World" was about as well received as SNG. Yet her talent isn't being "recognized" by big blockbuster filmmakers...many of whom have been on the record about how they think women can't or "don't want to" direct these kinds of movies.

 

It's not about creating opportunity at the indie level. It's about being given access to the next level  after you create an opportunity for yourself. 

post #4366 of 4697
What are people to do? You could beat the odds against you and win the dubious prize of now being considered a model minority, or you can talk about changing the odds and be branded a whiner and SJW.

Johnny's right, this shit shouldn't matter, and one day it likely won't. But I can't fault folks for wanting change to move a wee bit faster than the speed of history.
post #4367 of 4697

the thing about SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE when it comes to institutional biases is that it's probably easier to bunch together evidence for a conspiracy of a NON-white-male person being picked for a job precisely BECAUSE of their non-white-maleness

 

white male being default, EVIDENCE is hard to come by because it's just done because it's the way things are done

post #4368 of 4697

Brad Bird:  I'd fuck me!

post #4369 of 4697

I will say that our buddy CLOM didn't help himself by whining about how he was being seen as an example of white male privilege and how unfaaaaaiiiiir that was.

 

Fucking own it, dude. Say "You know what? I am, and that sucks. I'm proud of the work I did and the opportunities I've been given, but I also see how the fact that I'm a white man means I'm given these kinds of opportunities. More women and people of color need to be given the chances I was given - someone needs to take a risk on them the way a risk was taken on me - and when it comes to future films I'm involved in as a producer or a writer, I'm going to work harder to make sure that we do that - starting with Jurassic World 2."* 

Instead he said this:
 

Quote:
 "Obviously it's very lopsided, and hopefully it's going to change as time goes on, but it hurts my feelings when I'm used as an example of white, male privilege. I know many of the female filmmakers who are being referred to in these articles. These women are being offered these kinds of movies, but they're choosing not to make them."

 

*caveat that J.A. Bayona is Spanish, so progress. 

post #4370 of 4697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post
 

Brad Bird:  I'd fuck me!

post #4371 of 4697
Thread Starter 

We've had this conversation before and saying the same thing bores me, but I'll say this: The click-bait title of the article doesn't help. Full stop.  

 

Eliminate any thought of institutionalized misogyny or whatever and let's instead think about how humans generally respond to things. When you were a kid, and you're parents said, "No, you can't watch that movie, that's a grown-up movie" or whatever; did that make you want to watch that movie less? Or did you silently say to yourself "When you leave for work...I'm gonna watch that fucking movie."? 

 

The desire to do something someone tells you not to do is a thing that doesn't really go away and in a certain context, like a debate about one thing or another, someone telling you that you cannot do something is likely to engender more indignation than peaceable discussion. That's how people work. 

 

Now, about that article, there are people who are going to read the title and it will color their entire perception of every single word that comes out of her mouth. That title doesn't say "Women should be given the opportunity to tell their own stories", it says "No, you can't do that."

 

She is welcome to open the discussion how she opens it and frame it however she wishes to frame it, but because the words you use matter, absolutely no one should be surprised when a number of people who read it, have a less than ideal reaction to it. You open with a negative statement, the entire discussion will be framed negatively. That's how that works.

 

Listen, I'm super happy that Patty Jenkins got to direct Wonder Woman. I think a male director could have also made a good Wonder Woman movie (maybe even a better one from a technical standpoint, depending on who we're talking about), but it would not have been Patty Jenkins' Wonder Woman.

 

Could a black director have made a better Django Unchained than Quentin Tarantino? No, because Django Unchained is a Quentin Tarantino movie and only he makes Quentin Tarantino movies. That said, this hypothetically black director working off a Tarantino script would probably have not had King Schultz (wonderful character that he is) lord over the narrative half as much as he did in that movie, nearly supplanting the hero's centrality to the narrative. I think that was primarily a function of Tarantino being a white guy.

 

I believe in the heart of this issue, but it's always going to crumble into people talking around one another until they learn how to talk to one another.

 

 

Way it works.

post #4372 of 4697
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
 

We've had this conversation before and saying the same thing bores me, but I'll say this: The click-bait title of the article doesn't help. Full stop.  

 

I agree. 

post #4373 of 4697
post #4374 of 4697
Mildly amusing. The joke would have been better if Peterson called IT by its true gender:

Space Spider
post #4375 of 4697

eheheheh

post #4376 of 4697

Believe it or not, some friends and I were actually joking about that based on the Pennywise/Babadook meme we saw going around.

post #4377 of 4697
Thread Starter 

I read about that and it's kind of cute. Outside of being quite happy that The Babadook has really stuck around in people's minds, I am endlessly surprised (and oddly note bored yet) of just what characters suddenly become "LGBTQ icons", but I know where it's coming from. No major, zeitgeisty genre film or television show has had an out character as the lead or a queer romance that's central to the narrative. You may have your Transparents and OITNB and so on, but so far, Wonder Woman is as close as we've come to even dipping half a toe in that area. So w/ that vacancy: Arthur/Eames, Science Bros, Pennywise/Babadook, etc.  

 

The LGBTQ community may have garnered more acceptance over the years, but the entertainment industry has been slow as shit when it comes to picking this thing up and it still feels like something that's only done on occasions when the whole point is to draw attention to it instead of treating it like a thing that's just a part of who millions of people are.

post #4378 of 4697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post

Mildly amusing. The joke would have been better if Peterson called IT by its true gender:

Space Spider

He would, of course, refuse. 

post #4379 of 4697

I still find Peterson an intriguing figure. He has this obsessive hatred of post-modernism and thinks marxists are trying to undermine western cultural values and reshape reality by redefining it, or something like that. But at the time time he's this oddball brand of Christian who doesn't seem to literally believe any of it, but thinks the metaphorical truths of religion should trump actual literal truths because they lead humanity to some ideal way of being. Which in its own way seems like just as much of a postmodernist approach to reality as what he accuses the Marxists of, he's just basing it on a different set of values.

post #4380 of 4697
Paul gets it. Also, you framed it well enough to make me cringe. It's basically everything that's wrong with everything. Peterson is arguing that his headcanon for existence is correct.
post #4381 of 4697

Peterson makes alot of good points, but too often he crawls up his own ass and loses all touch with reality.  Using logic to justify his personal beliefs and going off on wild tangents.  It's alot of theory that loses touch with context.

post #4382 of 4697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Slim View Post

Paul gets it. Also, you framed it well enough to make me cringe. It's basically everything that's wrong with everything. Peterson is arguing that his headcanon for existence is correct.

Dude, welcome to subjective reality. Everybody does it. You are doing it right now.
post #4383 of 4697

then how come I never see you posting links to Lightning Slim's thoughts, CARNO??

 

or DO YOU, duuuuuuude???

 

 

any sign of dudekins?


Edited by mcnooj82 - 9/24/17 at 10:10am
post #4384 of 4697
What a fucking weird argument, Carno. Every man is an island. Nothing is fair. It's Chinatown, Jake.
post #4385 of 4697
Now you're getting it!
post #4386 of 4697
I hate to steal an argument from Twitter, but what the hell:

What's it like not understanding context? Is it weird?
post #4387 of 4697

Context is so last century.

post #4388 of 4697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
 

I still find Peterson an intriguing figure. He has this obsessive hatred of post-modernism and thinks marxists are trying to undermine western cultural values and reshape reality by redefining it, or something like that. But at the time time he's this oddball brand of Christian who doesn't seem to literally believe any of it, but thinks the metaphorical truths of religion should trump actual literal truths because they lead humanity to some ideal way of being. Which in its own way seems like just as much of a postmodernist approach to reality as what he accuses the Marxists of, he's just basing it on a different set of values.

 

Pretty much exactly what I got from his stuff.  He's CS Lewis, more or less, in other words.  At least as far as faith goes.

On the social philosophy angle it's almost like saying the most terrifying thing about Post-Structuralism is that it's correct:  things are relative and malleable interactions of power structures right down to the phoneme level.  But we don't want people thinking about that too much and trying to disrupt it or society will fall apart and something something GULAGs.

At base it's a kind of Authoritarian position.  Not in the jackbooted way necessarily, but that there must be an effectively unquestioned base to personal moral philosophy and it had better be the right one.  Or that's the implication I maybe overreach to.

It's too late to think about this too hard, but it's a vague point of view I feel I can detect in a lot of conservative type thought and it's part of why I think such people find slippery slopes so tempting as arguments (even though everyone can think so from time to time);  basically because they do feel that everything can be unraveled if you pull on the wrong thread.

post #4389 of 4697
So, for the people saying Peterson has "good points," which ones do you mean? The belief in a Marxist assault on linguistic truth or the bio-essentialist insistence on gender presentation matching biological sex?
post #4390 of 4697
Relativism? The worst. Even if it's kinda right.
post #4391 of 4697
Guys, guys. Let’s sidestep the discussion on post-structuralsm and critical theory to dissect what’s really important:

Carly Rae Jepsen Keeps Writing The Same Song
https://www.ascarnooneelsecansee.com/

Or to break it down, in case you don’t want to read 150 GODDAMN INSUFFERABLE PAGES FROM THE MILLENNIAL ID HIMSELF MAX-FUCKING-LANDIS...

Carly Rae is thirsty for some dude and can’t get over it.

Sorry, a buddy of mine is obsessed with this when it all really boils down to ‘CRJ maybe doesn’t have the widest range in terms of songwriting.’ It doesn’t help that Landis so smug and ‘llok at me!’ about the whole thing like he found the Ark of the Covenant or something. Infuriating writing style, 2nd person informal and he’s just the worst.
post #4392 of 4697
What the fuck is that, even? It's not a think piece. It's barely even a tumblr post.
post #4393 of 4697

Hell, a cultural revelation as SHOCKING as "Pop songs are about fucking" deserves 1500 pages not 150. We are witnessing the greatest breakthrough in cultural criticism since Roland Barthes.

post #4394 of 4697
Thread Starter 
All of his father's bluster (and then some) but without the CV to back it up. That said, this what keeps getting him in the room, because it sure as hell isn't the box office returns.
post #4395 of 4697

jeez, he really really cannot help himself

 

like some kind of greek epic...

 

Image may contain: 1 person

post #4396 of 4697
He seems to have come down with a severe case of Donald Trump Syndrome, in which the sufferer is compelled to provoke and involve themselves in fights that directly undermine their own self-interest...
post #4397 of 4697
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

jeez, he really really cannot help himself

 

like some kind of greek epic...

Funny how Joss is all about nuance now. Back in the day pre-affair, he would have a different opinion im certain.

post #4398 of 4697
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/law/heres-animator-jonathan-ng-film-lifted-edm-artist-will-sparks-153848.html


sounds like this agency should be DESTROYED

I also recommend the original short film
post #4399 of 4697
There's a real problem with a naked sense of entitlement in the music industry.
post #4400 of 4697

To: mcnooj82@noojnet.com

Subject: RE: You broke into my home and stole my things!

 

Hello Nooj,

 

Thank you for contacting me about the fact I broke into your home and stole all of your stuff. I propose that, instead of me giving you everything back or even ackowledging that I was in the wrong, you can have 5% of the profit I make when I sell it on the streets. Yes, I'm sure you spent a lof of years and hard work on that stuff but I am a thinly-veiled metaphor for a corporation and can therefore do whatever I wish apparently. 

 

Regards,

 

Saxon

 

P.S Please stop complaining about me stealing your stuff online as it makes me look bad. Have a great day!

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