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STAR WARS: ROGUE ONE (Gareth Edwards, 2016) - Page 31

post #1501 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post


That's not my point tho - the fact that the novelization had that in there says the story Disney sketched out has that as a part of it. The novel writers didn't pull that out of a hat. No matter how much latitude they're giving Rian with VIII I doubt it includes altering the broad brushstroke the Mouse has invested in.

 

Belloq's good point aside...

 

I'm sure the writer of the novelization didn't pull it totally out of a hat.  I have little doubt that it was something that was present in some earlier draft of the screenplay that was eventually made less apparent.  I'm just saying that it's one of those things that Lucasfilm and Johnson can easily ignore since it wasn't underlined in the film itself.

post #1502 of 4021
Pfft. Who reads books anyway?
post #1503 of 4021
Yes, but it's also the case that Johnson built his film off of the screenplays for TFA, not the finished product. I expect Johnson will drawn on some of the concepts that were underplayed or cut from TFA.
post #1504 of 4021
Remember when movies were in no way beholden to the half-baked ideas of tie-in novelization writers?
post #1505 of 4021

Which reminds me to link this again!

 

http://www.wnyc.org/story/secret-life-novelizations/

 

Quote:
 

You know the experience. You’re standing in an airport or the grocery store checkout lane and you notice a glossy paperback titled, say, “Batman versus Superman” and you think, I didn’t know that was a book first. And then you see the dreaded words, “adapted from the screenplay” and you think, oh, and you keep moving. No, there's not much respect for the film novelization, and nobody knows it better than the people who write them.

 

MAX ALLAN COLLINS:  But it seems to be the only thing that people recognize, so I usually say “novelization” and then in parentheses say “dreaded term.”

 

JESSE BRENNEMAN:  Max Allan Collins is author of over 30 novelizations, including, Saving Private Ryan, The Mummy Trilogy and Waterworld. Like many authors, he's worked his entire professional life to get out from under our disdain.

 

MAX ALLAN COLLINS:  The nasty and sometimes-deserved reputation of being sub-literature.

 

LEE GOLDBERG:  That you have a bunch of writers who are not good enough to write books of their own, just take a script and type it in book form for a quick check over a weekend.

 

JESSE BRENNEMAN:  That’s Lee Goldberg, author of what he prefers to call “media tie-ins,” including two successful series of novels based on the television shows Monk and Diagnosis Murder. Goldberg and Collins were both fed up with the contempt for a trade that employs hundreds of writers and creates stacks of bestsellers, so they cofounded the International Association of Media Tie-In Writers or IAMTW.

post #1506 of 4021

Thinking more on TFA thanks to this thread, it REALLY annoys me how not only did JJ make an expensive fan film, but he hobbled the stories going forward by forcing people to have to deal with his creative mess like a fucking toddler who's not cleaning up after himself.  If I was Rian I'd be like "Oh, Rey's parentage is a mystery for no good reason and it's just the Empire 2.0 and nothing has changed and Snoke is like the worst villain you could give me moving forward?  THANKS ASSHOLE!"

 

Seriously.  

 

-Luke running a school brimming with young Jedi.

-New and interesting kinds of villains with creative, different goals.

-A mega powered enemy that is NOT the Empire 2.0. Fundamentalist terrorists perhaps? Anti Force sentiment.

-Luke as a villain?

-The Force explored as shades of grey, not binary.

 

 

At least Star Wars Rebels has the balls to explore most of those things and fans who want different can get it that way.  

post #1507 of 4021
I'm largely hypothesizing here, but I think there's some reason to believe that Rey's parentage was going to be resolved in TFA before Johnson asked Abrams to withhold that reveal.
post #1508 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post

I'm largely hypothesizing here, but I think there's some reason to believe that Rey's parentage was going to be resolved in TFA before Johnson asked Abrams to withhold that reveal.

Objection!

 

Conjecture your honor!

post #1509 of 4021
Wasn't that somewhat confirmed by Johnson? That he asked Abrams to hold back on certain details for his movie's purposes?
post #1510 of 4021
Yep, we know for a fact that Johnson asked Abrams to hold back a reveal or two. So take your pick.
post #1511 of 4021
JOHNSON: eh jaja's movie is already broken. might as well help myself!
post #1512 of 4021

I like Johnson even more for that. 

 

Hey JJ?

 

Do you like that song...

 

post #1513 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 

Thinking more on TFA thanks to this thread, it REALLY annoys me how not only did JJ make an expensive fan film, but he hobbled the stories going forward by forcing people to have to deal with his creative mess like a fucking toddler who's not cleaning up after himself.  If I was Rian I'd be like "Oh, Rey's parentage is a mystery for no good reason and it's just the Empire 2.0 and nothing has changed and Snoke is like the worst villain you could give me moving forward?  THANKS ASSHOLE!"

 

Seriously.  

 

-Luke running a school brimming with young Jedi.

-New and interesting kinds of villains with creative, different goals.

-A mega powered enemy that is NOT the Empire 2.0. Fundamentalist terrorists perhaps? Anti Force sentiment.

-Luke as a villain?

-The Force explored as shades of grey, not binary.

 

 

At least Star Wars Rebels has the balls to explore most of those things and fans who want different can get it that way.  


Rian Johnson knew what he was signing up for, and nobody held a gun to his head and demanded that he do so.  I won't dispute that THE FORCE AWAKENS largely leaves some interesting angles and avenues unexplored, but let's see what Johnson does do with the dangling threads before deciding that he was boxed into a corner by creative decisions that were made on TFA.

 

Turning Luke into a villain would have been (and would still be, if they go there) a gigantic mistake, but your other ideas, though?  Would love to see them pursued in the future.  The Knights of Ren might be a pathway to incorporating some of that sort of stuff, assuming they're not just the Sith with another name.

post #1514 of 4021

Are they interesting unexplored avenues though?  Ask yourself, do I REALLY give a single fuck about Rey's parentage?  Like at all?

 

I almost couldn't care less about the "mysteries" that JJ started.  Snoke?  Give me a break.

post #1515 of 4021
"GENNNNERALLLLL!!!!!"
post #1516 of 4021
Freeman's on one of his rampages again!

giphy.gif
post #1517 of 4021
You guys are having one of your ongoing breakdowns where you can't figure out how the filmmakers are going to pull it off, so you assume whatever they do will be shitty.

This isn't even the right thread for this.
post #1518 of 4021

so serious brad!

 

I only attack the movie that exists now!

post #1519 of 4021
Why wait to be disappointed and bitter? We can be disappointed and bitter now!
post #1520 of 4021
That Han Solo movie will stink because I don't know what they're going to do.

YMMV
post #1521 of 4021

I'm not assuming I'll hate whatever Rian does, I'm saying I'm bored and not engaged by what has already been done right now.  There's a very important difference between not caring about what doesn't exist yet and not caring about a fully formed and posed mystery.

 

Brad, do you care about Snoke AT ALL??  Are you on the edge of your seat waiting to know more about him?

post #1522 of 4021
Poor Freeman.
post #1523 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 

Are they interesting unexplored avenues though?  Ask yourself, do I REALLY give a single fuck about Rey's parentage?  Like at all?

 

I almost couldn't care less about the "mysteries" that JJ started.  Snoke?  Give me a break.

I'm not talking about "mysteries."  No, I don't care about who Rey's parents were.  I'm talking about stuff like the political status quo in the galaxy after the near-simultaneous destruction of both the New Republic government and the First Order's flagship base/weapon, the future of Kylo Ren's character after killing his father and then being soundly beaten in battle, the revelations of what Luke's been up to in the years since JEDI, information regarding what happened to Luke's Jedi school and how Ben Solo turned to the Dark Side, and the overall journey of Rey's character.

 

Those are all things I'm very interested in, for sure, and I expect Rian Johnson will be playing with all of that.

post #1524 of 4021

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK STAR WARSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

post #1525 of 4021
It's kind of silly to worry about how all this shit lines up. It wasn't thought out to a logical conclusion across 12 movies back in the '70s. They're making it up as they go. Relax. Stop being OCD and enjoy the space lasers and funny monsters and robots.
post #1526 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 

I'm talking about stuff like the political status quo in the galaxy after the near-simultaneous destruction of both the New Republic government and the First Order's flagship base/weapon, the future of Kylo Ren's character after killing his father and then being soundly beaten in battle, the revelations of what Luke's been up to in the years since JEDI, information regarding what happened to Luke's Jedi school and how Ben Solo turned to the Dark Side, and the overall journey of Rey's character.

 

and I expect Rian Johnson will be playing with all of that.

oh man, this movie is gonna be an unwieldy mess if it has to try to work with all that and stay within Lucasfilm's 2 hour 10 minute comfort zone!!

 

That's a TAAAAAALLLLLLL order!  Especially after jaja's movie dropped so many baaaallllzzzzz maaaan!

post #1527 of 4021
Hopefully the next movie's opening crawl is as follows...

"Moments after Rey hand-delivered Luke's lightsaber back to him, he told who her parents are, where Snoke came from, and how Maz must've come upon his old Jedi weapon.

Now onto the next adventure..."
post #1528 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

oh man, this movie is gonna be an unwieldy mess if it has to try to work with all that and stay within Lucasfilm's 2 hour 10 minute comfort zone!!

 

That's a TAAAAAALLLLLLL order!  Especially after jaja's movie dropped so many baaaallllzzzzz maaaan!

I'm not too worried about it.

post #1529 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

Hopefully the next movie's opening crawl is as follows...

"Moments after Rey hand-delivered Luke's lightsaber back to him, he told who her parents are, where Snoke came from, and how Maz must've come upon his old Jedi weapon.

Now onto the next adventure..."

That would be great!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 

I'm not too worried about it.

 

We will see...

 

Your description above sounds like the amount of things that Snyder tried to tackle with BatSup... and that movie was nearly 3 hours...

post #1530 of 4021
I'm like, "Fuck trivia. Let's get on with the fun!"
post #1531 of 4021
I want Johnson to go the full Kojima and start exploring mysteries that weren't even mysteries!

STARKILLER GEAR
post #1532 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

It's kind of silly to worry about how all this shit lines up. It wasn't thought out to a logical conclusion across 12 movies back in the '70s. They're making it up as they go. Relax. Stop being OCD and enjoy the space lasers and funny monsters and robots.

Just enjoy the Suicide Squad.  Love loving things.

 

Oh wait you hated it TRAITOR!

post #1533 of 4021
Suicide Squad is Dullsville, USA. Population: Freeman.
post #1534 of 4021

I'm Canadian, Coach!

post #1535 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post

I want Johnson to go the full Kojima and start exploring mysteries that weren't even mysteries!

STARKILLER GEAR

"Rey???  REEEEEEYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!"

 

GAME OVER dah!

 

 

 

"Just call me... DEEP SNOKE"

post #1536 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

Suicide Squad is Dullsville, USA. Population: Freeman.
giphy.gif
post #1537 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post


giphy.gif

You suck worse than he does!

post #1538 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

You suck worse than he does!
Aww, you didn't even try.
post #1539 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

We will see...

 

Your description above sounds like the amount of things that Snyder tried to tackle with BatSup... and that movie was nearly 3 hours...

I would think all of those things would come up organically, no?  Whatever Leia's plotline ends up being will likely deal with the galactic politics stuff, Kylo Ren and Rey's arcs with obviously involve with their characters dealing with the ramifications of what happened in TFA, and Luke will no doubt be filling us in on what he's been up to and how his relationship with Ben Solo fell apart.

post #1540 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post


Aww, you didn't even try.

I can't summon up the new "Opinion terrorist" off of the top of my head, you know.  

post #1541 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

"Rey???  REEEEEEYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!"

GAME OVER dah!



"Just call me... DEEP SNOKE"
SOLID SNOKE
post #1542 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 

I would think all of those things would come up organically, no?  Whatever Leia's plotline ends up being will likely deal with the galactic politics stuff, Kylo Ren and Rey's arcs with obviously involve with their characters dealing with the ramifications of what happened in TFA, and Luke will no doubt be filling us in on what he's been up to and how his relationship with Ben Solo fell apart.

But since forwakens did such a piss poor non-job of establishing the galactic PAAWLITEEEKS (by simply deleting it completely), it'll be up to Johnson's film to bring audiences up to speed on that stuff.  If they decide to keep it simple somehow?  Great.  

 

I would HOPE that this stuff comes up organically.  But clearly forwakens couldn't do that.  It made up more complex stuff meant to continue elaborating on the ending of JEDI... but deleted it all in a way that just makes it seem like Rebellion vs Empire again.  I suppose if they just sucked up that bungling and just continued on as if it really were just Rebellion vs. Empire (instead of Resistance vs First Order), it would streamline some stuff.

 

heheheh, but then it'll get shit on for just being plucky rebellion vs evil empire again.  HAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

At this point, I kinda hope they just continue ignoring the galactic politics and really let the new characters develop in more compelling ways.

post #1543 of 4021

I'm glad we didn't start the story with Luke just running a new Jedi Academy. At best, it's going to be Harry Potter redux, at worst it would be like those terrible Jedi Academy kids books with Han and Leia's kids. Either that, or another youngling massacre, because that's something SW always needs.

 

Besides, Luke restarting the Jedi - and getting it right - feels like a big enough development that it ought to be shown onscreen, rather than happen between the films. Maybe it's a point that would have worked better if these sequels were coming out five years after the OT, but it's something I'd rather see him do than just hear about in the backstory: "Oh, yeah, there's a whole bunch of Jedi now, it's like they're coming off the factory belt! Plus, Luke did away with all those shitty rules the PT Jedi had, it's totes cool." And if they're focusing on Rey, it makes sense for her to be the only one we see Luke training at this time.  More than a cliffhanger, that's what the last scene really is: the true beginning of the new Jedi.

 

Another thing I've heard rumored that Johnson requested JJ change was that originally the last scene had a slightly more definitive resolution (e.g. Luke taking the lightsaber - they also apparently filmed, or at least scripted, a version where he gave Rey a hug), but that Johnson asked it be more ambiguous.

 

Anyways, I look forward to the new Rogue One trailer coming out on Tuesday, when we will talk about that film for approximately an hour after which this thread will get back to, I dunno, arguing about whether what TFA really needed was the revelation that Snoke is that weird droid that helped Padme give birth in ROTS.

post #1544 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dent6084 View Post
 

 

 

 I dunno, arguing about whether what TFA really needed was the revelation that Snoke is that weird droid that helped Padme give birth in ROTS.

EE-SEE-TAH!

 

OH-EH-DO!

 

OOOOOOBAAAA

post #1545 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

But since forwakens did such a piss poor non-job of establishing the galactic PAAWLITEEEKS (by simply deleting it completely), it'll be up to Johnson's film to bring audiences up to speed on that stuff.  If they decide to keep it simple somehow?  Great.  

 

I would HOPE that this stuff comes up organically.  But clearly forwakens couldn't do that.  It made up more complex stuff meant to continue elaborating on the ending of JEDI... but deleted it all in a way that just makes it seem like Rebellion vs Empire again.  I suppose if they just sucked up that bungling and just continued on as if it really were just Rebellion vs. Empire (instead of Resistance vs First Order), it would streamline some stuff.

 

heheheh, but then it'll get shit on for just being plucky rebellion vs evil empire again.  HAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

At this point, I kinda hope they just continue ignoring the galactic politics and really let the new characters develop in more compelling ways.


I've got a lot of faith in Rian Johnson.  We'll find out next year whether or not that's misplaced.

 

As for the politics, BLOODLINE sets the table for some really compelling stuff... none of which was picked up in THE FORCE AWAKENS, so - given that BLOODLINE was published after - it's my assumption that the political emphasis there was meant to keep that stuff alive in the minds of the hardcore SW faithful because it will inform (even in some small way) developments to come in the films.

post #1546 of 4021

We shall see. Hopefully Rian will try something different and not crib from ESB because that's what every SW fan wants SO badly.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

EE-SEE-TAH!

 

OH-EH-DO!

 

OOOOOOBAAAA

 

You have to give Lucas credit for that scene was short and to the point.  Guess Padme and Anakin had a bunch of baby names picked out before he turned to the dark side and stuff.

post #1547 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 


I've got a lot of faith in Rian Johnson.  We'll find out next year whether or not that's misplaced.

 

As for the politics, BLOODLINE sets the table for some really compelling stuff... none of which was picked up in THE FORCE AWAKENS, so - given that BLOODLINE was published after - it's my assumption that the political emphasis there was meant to keep that stuff alive in the minds of the hardcore SW faithful because it will inform (even in some small way) developments to come in the films.


The writer of Bloodline has said that the various political factions in that book came directly from Johnson (along with a couple of other things, including the incident where Leia's faction suffers a bomb attack). So I'd guess there will be at least a reference to that going forward.

post #1548 of 4021
Oh man, is this trilogy gonna be like the Matrix multimedia experience for its sequels?
post #1549 of 4021
I just read the Wikipedia summary for BLOODLINE. That stuff does sound good.
post #1550 of 4021

Hmmm...  I heard bad things about the book.  I must investigate.

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