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STAR WARS: ROGUE ONE (Gareth Edwards, 2016) - Page 32

post #1551 of 4021
I wouldn't actually read it. But it sounds like it fills in the history of the Republic and the Resistance in some nice ways.

The notion that Leia's parentage would be a secret that is used against her in an act of political sabotage is really, really strong.
post #1552 of 4021

If Donald Trump ran for Galactic Senate, he'd base his entire campaign on it.

post #1553 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post

I just read the Wikipedia summary for BLOODLINE. That stuff does sound good.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 

Hmmm...  I heard bad things about the book.  I must investigate.

 

I think it's well worth a read.  The actual plot (which centrally involves a "follow-the-money" type investigation of an organized crime operation Leia embarks upon) is nothing particularly special, but the sketching out of the New Republic, its political parties and operatives, and the state of the galaxy is incredibly well-handled.  It also gets the character of Leia very right. 

post #1554 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post

SOLID SNOKE

Would love if the mystery of Snoke is that he's actually someone that took Luke's hand and attached it to his amputated arm, and by the second film, because of the high medichlorian count, the hand was able to take control of the body and become Luke succumbed to the dark side. Dark side Luke even sounds like Mark Hamill in full on Joker voice.

"NOW, I LIVE THROUGH THIS ARM!!"

I'll make love to Rian Johnson if he does this.
post #1555 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

Would love if the mystery of Snoke is that he's actually someone that took Luke's hand and attached it to his amputated arm, and by the second film, because of the high medichlorian count, the hand was able to take control of the body and become Luke succumbed to the dark side. Dark side Luke even sounds like Mark Hamill in full on Joker voice.

"NOW, I LIVE THROUGH THIS ARM!!"

I'll make love to Rian Johnson if he does this.
Oh, mannnnnn. Don't tease me that way.
post #1556 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post

The notion that Leia's parentage would be a secret that is used against her in an act of political sabotage is really, really strong.

That angle is some of the best material in the novel.  It's a particularly striking moment because the revelation comes in the most public of ways, and from a political opponent of Leia's who, nevertheless, had become her friend (and she, his) through the course of their crime investigation.  It's almost presented as a tragic development for both of them.  This character, in fact, is easily one of the most complex in all of STAR WARS, and could probably sustain a story all about him.

post #1557 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post

I wouldn't actually read it. But it sounds like it fills in the history of the Republic and the Resistance in some nice ways.

The notion that Leia's parentage would be a secret that is used against her in an act of political sabotage is really, really strong.

I don't know why they didn't do it, but apparently Lucasfilm considered doing that part as an animated short to play before TFA.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Scandal_of_Blood

 

And Casterfo - the character Belloq is talking about - was created by the Story Group with the idea that he would appear in TFA, but then he didn't and Claudia Grey (the writer of Bloodline) ended up fleshing him out.

post #1558 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Oh man, is this trilogy gonna be like the Matrix multimedia experience for its sequels?
To an extent, yeah. They're building the EU and the trilogy at the same time.

This isn't one visionary building a trology and other folks spinning off stories from it. It's a corporation building a media empire with a film trilogy at its center.
post #1559 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dent6084 View Post
 

I don't know why they didn't do it, but apparently Lucasfilm considered doing that part as an animated short to play before TFA.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Scandal_of_Blood

 

And Casterfo - the character Belloq is talking about - was created by the Story Group with the idea that he would appear in TFA, but then he didn't and Claudia Grey (the writer of Bloodline) ended up fleshing him out.


Interesting!  Didn't know any of that.  I wonder, then, if Casterfo is slated to ever make an appearance in the upcoming movies.  He's compelling enough to warrant it, though they'd have to explain how he gets out of the predicament he's in at the end of BLOODLINE.  Tie-in book fodder, at the very least.

post #1560 of 4021
oh man... ANIMATRIX

ENTER THE MATRIX

Multimedia synergy that resulted in compromised theatrical films!!

Too bad they didn't do that short in front of forwakens. If you're gonna go for that all encompassing multimedia experience, then DO IT!!! But choose something that actually enriches the actual feature film!

Sounds way better than Final Flight of the Osiris already. And they should've showed the two part Second Renaissance before each Matrix sequel instead to begin with.

But nooooooo. They went with the SEXXXAYYYY one that added nothing!!
Edited by mcnooj82 - 8/7/16 at 9:23pm
post #1561 of 4021

You know all the little names and everything.  You Matrix nerd.  At least Star Wars nerds have TWO good movies in their franchise.  

post #1562 of 4021
I actually still admire the Matrix sequels despite how much they messed up! At least they were a specific vision by the Wachowskis with all their strengths and weaknesses.

And I really love the ANIMATRIX (give or take a few entries).

Funny thing is that I was never THAT into The Matrix. I was more a Bound guy until Speed Racer!
post #1563 of 4021

You're speaking a different language now.  Bound?

 

I remember the Matrix video game.  I played Jada Pinkett instead of Neo...

 

That highway chase is pretty great though!

post #1564 of 4021
Bound.

The Wachowskis' first feature film?

Starring Gina Gershon, Jennifer Tilly, and Joey Pants?

Cmon!!! It's great!

You remember those Matrix game cut scenes? Holy shit they were awful. Prequel level staging/blocking.

Probably worse, actually.
Edited by mcnooj82 - 8/7/16 at 10:00pm
post #1565 of 4021

It looks like I'm... Bound to look up this movie.

post #1566 of 4021
Actually!!!! Just watch it without knowing anything about it!!

Just do it! GO!!!
post #1567 of 4021
Don't read up on it!!!!
post #1568 of 4021
STOOOOOP!!!
post #1569 of 4021

I'M WATCHING IT LEAVE ME ALONE!

post #1570 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 

I'M WATCHING IT LEAVE ME ALONE!

whew! 

 

mmmm....

post #1571 of 4021

My Matrix fan level was so maxed out in 2003, I forced myself to play through the entirety of the broken mess of gameplay that was Enter The Matrix.

 

Boy, was that not worth it at all. It's like they got some 4th unit director, a couple empty rooms, stuck a couple non-characters nobody cares about in there, and told them to make some shit up. They don't even have the decency to make it cheesy fun like a 90s FMV game.

 

Oh, and yeah, I'm that fuckin guy that went to see Dreamcatcher in the theater mostly for Square's Animatrix segment (If you're not familiar with that weirdo marketing choice, it's like when they stuck the Phantom Menace trailer in front of Meet Joe Black in an effort to get people to see that piece of crap.) I did this after already having paid to see Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within in theaters.

 

Where was my head at in 2003??

 

Bound is still very good, though.

post #1572 of 4021
I thought all those cut scenes were just deleted scenes from the two films that the Wachowskis decided to use as the basis of the video game. They actually shot all that for the game? No wonder they felt flat. Only rented the game when it came out, was so boring.
post #1573 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Slim View Post

DUUUUDE. You need to strap it on and see those. We need a hot take thread from you. Seriously.

I've paid too much attention to what you guys have said about them over the years to think watching them would be any fun. Same with Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, the Transformers sequels and any Pirates movie beyond Dead Man's Chest.

Besides, I have about 600 films my man Edgar Wright just recommended me that I have to get to first.
post #1574 of 4021
I thought I was Bound for science fiction fantasy, but it turns out I was Bound for a great movie!!

I wonder why they stopped making great movies and shamalayan'deded.
post #1575 of 4021

I cannot for the life of me explain why, but I've really turned on The Matrix these last few years. I know it's a good movie, but every time I try to give it a go it falls flat.

 

I watched Dark City recently and realized that's the movie I want out of The Matrix. It's just so weird that no one talks about their lives before they escaped. Did Neo have family, friends? The only glimmer we get is a chinese place he liked. 

 

The dialogue too, ugh, like Chris Claremont wrote it circa 1983. Panels and panels full of word bubbles.

post #1576 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucho View Post

I've paid too much attention to what you guys have said about them over the years to think watching them would be any fun. Same with Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, the Transformers sequels and any Pirates movie beyond Dead Man's Chest.

Besides, I have about 600 films my man Edgar Wright just recommended me that I have to get to first.

-1 to Bucho for thinking it's about cinema and not hot takes.
post #1577 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headless Fett View Post

We shall see. Hopefully Rian will try something different and not crib from ESB because that's what every SW fan wants SO badly.

There has to be Rey/Luke training scenes à la Luke/Yoda. Otherwise what's the point of anything?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Slim View Post

-1 to Bucho for thinking it's about cinema and not hot takes.

So much to learn I still have.
post #1578 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

I thought all those cut scenes were just deleted scenes from the two films that the Wachowskis decided to use as the basis of the video game. They actually shot all that for the game? No wonder they felt flat. Only rented the game when it came out, was so boring.

 

The cutscenes were terrible but there was a lot of fun gameplay stuff in that game -- the way they did bullet time was great.

post #1579 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Bound.

The Wachowskis' first feature film?

Starring Gina Gershon, Jennifer Tilly, and Joey Pants?

Cmon!!! It's great!

You remember those Matrix game cut scenes? Holy shit they were awful. Prequel level staging/blocking.

Probably worse, actually.

Love Bound and their most perfect film.
post #1580 of 4021

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning Slim View Post

Remember when movies were in no way beholden to the half-baked ideas of tie-in novelization writers?

Yam but if you're implying that is the case with the new Disney-Star Wars books, you're wrong. The same story group oversees everything. All of it. It ain't like the old days when some dude like Timothy Zahn would basically make up whatever shit he wanted. Everything they make is canon now and storylines are approved by Kathleen Kennedy and the other bigwigs before they ever go forward.

post #1581 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post


Would love if the mystery of Snoke is that he's actually someone that took Luke's hand and attached it to his amputated arm, and by the second film, because of the high medichlorian count, the hand was able to take control of the body and become Luke succumbed to the dark side. Dark side Luke even sounds like Mark Hamill in full on Joker voice.

"NOW, I LIVE THROUGH THIS ARM!!"

I'll make love to Rian Johnson if he does this.


I don't think it's important for Snoke to have any kind of elaborate backstory at all, why would there be? Other than Darth Vader, no single major villain in the films has ever been anything much more than a classic big bad, and I don't think Snoke needs to be more than that really.

Also, I don't feel like going back and finding the other post that talked about this, but I can't say I would honestly care if Snoke's backstory ended up retconning the Emperor as not supreme evil after all, dude was interesting as a hologram in TESB, he stopped being interesting the second he turned into some straight up ham and cheese villain that had simply read the script before us, but apparently got an invalid copy that had him winning in the end. I enjoyed the performance in Return of the Jedi but the actual character is pretty fucking dumb. They don't even need to write Snoke as a more powerful force user, just someone that's smart enough not to put himself in the same kind of situation where he's absolutely certain he's going to win and then doesn't.

post #1582 of 4021
My guess is that Snoke is some kind of ancient evil that goes all the way back to the origins of the Jedi order. That's boring and obvious and I'm sure there's some twist to it (Johnson's "Your Snoke theory sucks" tweet suggests as much), but it fits with the "Luke seeks out the first Jedi Temple" narrative element.
post #1583 of 4021
Quote:
Turning Luke into a villain would have been (and would still be, if they go there) a gigantic mistake,

 

I agree with this sentiment completely, and am always pretty perplexed when it's mooted as a good idea. 

 

  • It shits all over the entire story up to this point, which was a son succeeding where his dad failed by learning from his father's mistakes and the mistakes of his father's mentors. Disney own Star Wars, and have the power to do what they want with it, but I think they have enough decency not to undermine George Lucas's original character and story that much by having Luke become a murderous villain. 
  • It doesn't make sense with what we know about Luke's personality, and so would have been a shock for the sake of a shock at the expense of a character whose very satisfying dramatic arc has been complete in the public's consciousness for 33 years. 
  • It would be derivative, and would suggest, pretty strongly, that the Skywalkers would be best to get themselves all vasectomies. Kylo Ren is at least one extra generation removed, and his motivations are different enough from Anakin's and Luke's that he's his own guy.
  • Star Wars has plenty of darkness in it, but all of Episodes I-VI leading up to Luke simply supplanting his father - after explicitly rejecting doing so - would be cynically bleak. Snapping from ROTJ's ending to a new status quo in which had flipped woult be totally jarring - it would play almost like a dark joke.
post #1584 of 4021

Reading about the really interesting ideas Rowling put into the Cursed Child, in what is a very similar situation in the Harry Potter universe of a story taking up years and years after the fact.  I wish we had a Star Wars caretaker as good as Rowling is.  Hopefully that's Rian Johnson! 

post #1585 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post

My guess is that Snoke is some kind of ancient evil that goes all the way back to the origins of the Jedi order. That's boring and obvious and I'm sure there's some twist to it (Johnson's "Your Snoke theory sucks" tweet suggests as much), but it fits with the "Luke seeks out the first Jedi Temple" narrative element.


Ya, that does make sense, but some people have other ideas.... (not me)

post #1586 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

Reading about the really interesting ideas Rowling put into the Cursed Child, in what is a very similar situation in the Harry Potter universe of a story taking up years and years after the fact.  I wish we had a Star Wars caretaker as good as Rowling is.  Hopefully that's Rian Johnson! 
Uggghhhh. Come on, Freeman.

Nearly everything about CURSED CHILD sounds awful.
post #1587 of 4021
I've read it and I hated it.

And I love pretty much everything about Harry Potter except for the first two movies.
post #1588 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post


Uggghhhh. Come on, Freeman.

Nearly everything about CURSED CHILD sounds awful.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
By awful do you mean great?  Look I just read a cursory summary, but stuff like Albus being a Slytherin and having a strained relationship with his father and being best friends with Draco Malfoy's son who of ALL people is evidently fantastic standout character...  I'm sure most of your problems with the story involve the concept of time travel and dark alternate realities like Back to the Future 2 and that's fine, but the actual character work is, to me, exciting and inspired and interesting.
post #1589 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrevellozo View Post

I've read it and I hated it.

And I love pretty much everything about Harry Potter except for the first two movies.

Not to veer completely off topic, but why?  Please relate it to Star Wars if you can.

post #1590 of 4021
giphy.gif
post #1591 of 4021

Ugh.  Fanboys amirite?

post #1592 of 4021
Unlike Andre, I'm no Potter fanboy.
post #1593 of 4021
So why are you bitching? Just for finger exercise?
post #1594 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post

My guess is that Snoke is some kind of ancient evil that goes all the way back to the origins of the Jedi order. That's boring and obvious and I'm sure there's some twist to it (Johnson's "Your Snoke theory sucks" tweet suggests as much), but it fits with the "Luke seeks out the first Jedi Temple" narrative element.

Snoke seems to actively dread the idea of the Jedi returning in any form, so he's likely definitely tied into Jedi lore to some degree.  His fear could be an interesting contrast to the Emperor, who never seemed particularly worried about anything.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
 

 

I agree with this sentiment completely, and am always pretty perplexed when it's mooted as a good idea. 

 

  • It shits all over the entire story up to this point, which was a son succeeding where his dad failed by learning from his father's mistakes and the mistakes of his father's mentors. Disney own Star Wars, and have the power to do what they want with it, but I think they have enough decency not to undermine George Lucas's original character and story that much by having Luke become a murderous villain. 
  • It doesn't make sense with what we know about Luke's personality, and so would have been a shock for the sake of a shock at the expense of a character whose very satisfying dramatic arc has been complete in the public's consciousness for 33 years. 
  • It would be derivative, and would suggest, pretty strongly, that the Skywalkers would be best to get themselves all vasectomies. Kylo Ren is at least one extra generation removed, and his motivations are different enough from Anakin's and Luke's that he's his own guy.
  • Star Wars has plenty of darkness in it, but all of Episodes I-VI leading up to Luke simply supplanting his father - after explicitly rejecting doing so - would be cynically bleak. Snapping from ROTJ's ending to a new status quo in which had flipped woult be totally jarring - it would play almost like a dark joke.

Absolutely.  Luke was tempted and tested in JEDI.  He didn't fall then, and the idea that something else in the intervening years could make him succumb to the Dark Side is silly, and would dramatically undercut his arc in the original trilogy.

post #1595 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

So why are you bitching? Just for finger exercise?
giphy.gif
post #1596 of 4021
Snoke has a LOT of work to do to convince me he's a worthy replacement of the emperor. That man was a saint of both intentional and unintentional comedy and he was the only character in all of Star Wars lore I'm aware of who mastered every single lightsaber combat form. ALL seven! He has the greatest lightsaber forms, everyone says he has the best forms.
post #1597 of 4021
Yeah, Johnson will have to give us something really neat to convince us that that CGI void with a comically "sinister" voice is a major threat.
post #1598 of 4021
Palpatine was first mentioned in the original SW novelisation - described as a politician who became detached from the populace and surrounding himself with lackeys and yes men. I can't remember if he was outed as a Sith back then though.

Snoke Sith 2.0 just seems a generic deformed badguy simply for the sake of having a big bad end of level baddie. You've got to make him a more worthwhile and engaging character than a space Blofeld. Give me more than I Want To Rule The Galaxy because eeeeeevvviill!.

You know I'm sure there are some nice people out there who want to rule the Galaxy too who'd be caring and believe in just being nice to everyone. Like Bill & Ted.
post #1599 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post

giphy.gif
You suck worse than he does!
Cesar Romero's Joker: still a more imposing threat than Kylo Ren!
post #1600 of 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

Hopefully the next movie's opening crawl is as follows...

"Moments after Rey hand-delivered Luke's lightsaber back to him, he told who her parents are, where Snoke came from, and how Maz must've come upon his old Jedi weapon.
"But that is a story for another time."
Now onto the next adventure..."

Fixed it for you.

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