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MAKING A MURDERER (Netflix) - Page 7

post #301 of 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
 

Oh yes, there is a definite possibility he did it, as in any murder trial.  The did he or didn't he, is more of a spectator sport for the public.  People can shout at each other until the end of time about this.

 

If the police did in fact plant evidence to make a stronger case, then their case wasn't strong enough to begin with, and they convicted him before he even went to trial, and that's not how justice works.  And that seems to be the theme of the documentary.  The gross misconduct of law enforcement, who are supposed to be representatives of the law, not the law itself.  If the documentary seems to be siding with Steve, it's because he is the victim of this gross misconduct.  Every American should be terrified by this documentary, not just because of the lengths law enforcement can to go to create a narrative based on their own biases, but because the system continues to allow it to happen.

 

Also, contrary to popular belief, IQ test are a poor measure of innate intellectual potential.  The more tests you do the higher your score gets. Even the inventor of the IQ test, eventually admitted that IQ tests only measure the ability to do IQ tests.  IQ tests can be culturally biased, so that certain ethnic or socioeconomic groups end up doing worse.  The test is supposed to be designed to fit specific groups, so that they get 100 as an average.  Also, a person with an IQ of 70 may be smarter than a person with the same score.  So it does not accurately asses a person's intellect.  This is to say that Steve's IQ shouldn't even really be part of the discussion.  

 

But, I'm getting way ahead of myself.  I have not finished the doc and have already learned more than I want to at this point (I didn't even know the outcome of the trial until now).  Let me bow out until it's over.

Well it kind of does matter if he did it to me considering we may turn him loose on to the world. Not only is that awful for the victim's families but there is a real possibility he kills again. Sounds insane but him killing anyone after getting out is insane. 

 

You are correct about the evidence. If the police planted any evidence at all of course they should be taken to task and I am very much horrified. Honestly even if he is found guilty again in a new trial they should still be investigated for evidence tampering.

 

His level of intelligence does matter because it has an impact on how well he could commit the crime. You wondered how he could possibly get some things right but fuck up other key parts and leave evidence.....theres your answer. I do agree though that IQ isn't the end all be all but it isn't exactly useless. Look at the way he writes, it's like a child.

 

None of this means he is guilty, honestly im not sure he is. After I watched the doc I was CERTAIN of his innocence but once you see what they left out it does leave you with doubts. 

post #302 of 311

I didn't say his intelligence didn't matter, I said his IQ score shouldn't be mentioned, because it's virtually meaningless.  So is his handwriting.  It's why lawyers (to my knowledge) don't use things like that to convict people.  They may as well start calling him names.

 

That was just me playing the spectator sport of "did he or didn't he", emotional buttons being pushed because of good filmmaking that make you speculate.  In other words, my argument wasn't "he's smart, so he didn't do stupid things like leave the key on the floor".  Even dumb people remember to take out the trash.  It was more about inconsistencies in the evidence.

post #303 of 311

"Steven Avery is in more trouble than any white person in the history of the United States has ever been in. In a justice system designed for him to thrive, he's failed miserably, twice."

 

"He had $200,000 for his legal defense. That should get you off in Wisconsin. That's like OJ money."

 

"All he needed to get off that he didn't have, was a single black juror. That's all it would have took. Because only a black dude in the United States can look at 11 other dudes, and be like, 'I think the police did this shit.'"

 

-Dave Chappelle

post #304 of 311

Yup I loved that bit too.

post #305 of 311
Seeing this thread pop up reminded me to heartily recommend "Shadow of Truth" which is essentially "Israeli Making a Murderer"

It's four episodes on Netflix and it is everybit as bonkers as Making a Murderer, maybe more so. Just WTF after WTF.
post #306 of 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post

Seeing this thread pop up reminded me to heartily recommend "Shadow of Truth" which is essentially "Israeli Making a Murderer"

It's four episodes on Netflix and it is everybit as bonkers as Making a Murderer, maybe more so. Just WTF after WTF.

 

You weren't kidding. It's an absolutely insane story.

post #307 of 311

Sorry, but I just can't bring myself to watch the last ep.  I've had enough masochism for a while...  and I know he doesn't get off.  

post #308 of 311
Well don't get caught up with Brendan Dassey. Slightly depressing.
post #309 of 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post

You weren't kidding. It's an absolutely insane story.

Isn't it just! It really got under my skin.
post #310 of 311
post #311 of 311
Interesting that Kellner is pointing the finger at Dassey now. Can't recall if she did that before:

http://www.newsweek.com/steven-avery-appeal-blood-evidence-innocent-guilty-kathleen-zellner-making-762639?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true
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