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Star Wars: Episode VIII (2017) Pre-Release Discussion - Page 31

post #1501 of 2918
If at the Celebration Disney rereleases the OOT on blu-ray plus announced the title for VIII and releases a trailer they'll have scored the biggest home run in the history of cinema and can coast on the royalties for the next 10 years and probably buy the moon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucho View Post

I don't get this bit. Vader wants revenge for Death Star 1, plus he wants to stop Luke from getting anywhere near the Emperor because Luke can destroy the Emperor ... so if Vader's twin motivations regarding Luke are to waste him, why does he want to tease him off the gantry?

At the start of ESB Vader wanted to rid the alliance of Luke - he's the new poster boy who destroyed the Death Star.

When The Emperor gives him a call and says Luke could destroy them, Vader said how about we turn him instead, Eperor said "yup, that might work, get on it." Now Vader's motivation has changed.

The whole Bespin set-up and testing of the carbon freeze chamber showed Vader had every intention of getting Luke in front of the emperor so they could turn him. "I do not wish the emperor's prize to be damaged, we will test it on Captain Solo." Vader was taking Luke to the Emperor.

Vader's plan was to confront Luke, beat him into submission and carbon freeze him. But when Luke proves to be more powerful than Vader anticipated, fights back but is ultimately beaten down onto the gantry Vader has to coax him back by sweet talking him and plays his trump card "no, I am your father" this knocks Luke for six and Vader continues "you and me can destroy the emperor, that's what you want, right? We can rule and shit." Luke's temped but thinks "fuck it." and bails.
post #1502 of 2918

I think "If he could be turned, he could become a powerful ally" is the beginning of the Vader face turn.  The Emperor would be happy with Luke dead dead dead, and Vader knows that.  So he suggests Luke be turned instead.

 

Cloud City is the test.  He does attempt to freeze Luke, and his disappointed "All too easy" shows he was hoping for more of a fight so that he'd know Luke and he could take on the Emperor.  Then Luke escapes and we get "Impressive.  Most impressive."  That's not just Vader being impressed, he's relieved.  Maybe the kid's got something after all.  And that's when the full court press begins.  Vader's completely toying with him the entire fight, because while he wants to win, he doesn't want to so damage Luke that he's useless in the coming fight with the Emperor.  The idea is to show how futile it is to resist, and if you have to give in, who better to give in to than your own father in order to destroy the man who's ultimately responsible for the Empire in the first place?

 

And it almost works.  He damn near breaks Luke.  But Luke chooses apparent death over joining his father on the Dark Side.  And that just tears Vader up.  He's pissed when he leaves for his shuttle.  He calls out to Luke and all Luke can do in response is think about Ben.  Vader is so out of it that he can't even muster the rage to choke out Admiral Piett for letting the Falcon get away.  He not only failed in what he told the Emperor he'd do, he's facing the very real possibility he's going to have to kill his own son.


Edited by Richard Dickson - 12/8/16 at 5:09pm
post #1503 of 2918
Here's a problem with your interpretation Elvis. You're assuming Vader came across info that the rebel pilot is his son and that instead of taking a personal interest in that he's more interested in getting even for the Death Star, something he originally didn't think was all impressive in the first film, thus treating the info of his lineage as merely trivial. You also assume he came across this info and decided not to let the Emperor in on that.

I don't buy it and I don't also buy that he was merely tricking Luke into getting off the ledge because there's nothing in the film to suggest that. Your theory only makes sense if it's 1980 and you're five years old trying to believe that Vader was lying to Luke about being his father and wanted to fuck with his head on that and tempting him with the idea of taking out the head of the empire.
post #1504 of 2918
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

 

And it almost works.  He damn near breaks Luke.  But Luke chooses apparent death over joining his father on the Dark Side.  And that just tears Vader up.  He's [i]pissed[/i] when he leaves for his shuttle.  

 

Well, he was pissed in the original.  He barks something like "bring my shuttle."  Now he drones casually something like "alert my star destroyer, blah blah."  Yet another unwelcome SE change.

 

So okay, R.D., what if Luke had taken him up on it?  Where do they go!  I'm not sure Vader had really thought the moment through.  Maybe he just didn't want Luke to kill himself?  

post #1505 of 2918

Not thinking it through is sort of how he became Vader in the first place.  The Dark Side is all about being quick and easy and charging in.  If Luke had said yes?  I'm guessing Vader would have taken him somewhere and tried to finish his training.  Whether he would have been successful or not would have depended on what kind of teacher Vader would turn out to be.

post #1506 of 2918
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
 

Not thinking it through is sort of how he became Vader in the first place.  The Dark Side is all about being quick and easy and charging in.  If Luke had said yes?  I'm guessing Vader would have taken him somewhere and tried to finish his training.  Whether he would have been successful or not would have depended on what kind of teacher Vader would turn out to be.

 

I suppose.  Or immediate coup attempt?  I always interpreted it as being borne of desperation that Luke was about to off himself, but maybe I've misread it.  

post #1507 of 2918
I post a neat tidbit of news about Snoke and EP. VIII and we're right back in the middle of this boring conversation?

You guys.
post #1508 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post

I post a neat tidbit of news about Snoke and EP. VIII and we're right back in the middle of this boring conversation?

You guys.

If Snoke was interesting, maybe I'd care.
post #1509 of 2918
Snoke is maybe the worst thing in force awakens.
post #1510 of 2918
Sure, sure.

But I thought all you "Johnson will save this trilogy" types would be all about that info as an example of the kind of course correction that VIII will be doing!
post #1511 of 2918
I'm not holding my breath, even with Johnson.
post #1512 of 2918
Me either. But "Johnson will make it work!" was the cry of so many folks around here!
post #1513 of 2918
He's a good filmmaker, but far from a sure thing.
post #1514 of 2918
Hahahaha

So much skepticism

So delicious
post #1515 of 2918
I still remember the looper reaction was "yeah pretty good. Didn't expect the farm derail."
post #1516 of 2918
Sour grapes
post #1517 of 2918
I'd rather go back to talking about the prequels than Snoke.

And I'd rather fight a Rancor than go back to talking about the prequels.
post #1518 of 2918
giphy.gif
post #1519 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stale Elvis View Post

If at the Celebration Disney rereleases the OOT on blu-ray plus announced the title for VIII and releases a trailer they'll have scored the biggest home run in the history of cinema and can coast on the royalties for the next 10 years and probably buy the moon.
At the start of ESB Vader wanted to rid the alliance of Luke - he's the new poster boy who destroyed the Death Star.

When The Emperor gives him a call and says Luke could destroy them, Vader said how about we turn him instead, Eperor said "yup, that might work, get on it." Now Vader's motivation has changed.

The whole Bespin set-up and testing of the carbon freeze chamber showed Vader had every intention of getting Luke in front of the emperor so they could turn him. "I do not wish the emperor's prize to be damaged, we will test it on Captain Solo." Vader was taking Luke to the Emperor.

Vader's plan was to confront Luke, beat him into submission and carbon freeze him. But when Luke proves to be more powerful than Vader anticipated, fights back but is ultimately beaten down onto the gantry Vader has to coax him back by sweet talking him and plays his trump card "no, I am your father" this knocks Luke for six and Vader continues "you and me can destroy the emperor, that's what you want, right? We can rule and shit." Luke's temped but thinks "fuck it." and bails.

 

And both Darth Vader and the Emperor forgot the name Skywalker and that Darth Vader and Luke are both named Skywalker?|! What a bunch of dopes!

post #1520 of 2918

I do quite like the concept of Snoke being a nine foot tall puppet.  That thing could be fucking terrifying to look at and at least add some physicality to make Snoke more interesting. 

 

Now just to explain where he was hiding all this time.  

post #1521 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

Now just to explain where he was hiding all this time.  
Don't we already know that from the EU 2.0?
post #1522 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post

giphy.gif
Gollum's doing alright for himself, I see.
post #1523 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post


Don't we already know that from the EU 2.0?

Oh?

post #1524 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 

I do quite like the concept of Snoke being a nine foot tall puppet.  That thing could be fucking terrifying to look at and at least add some physicality to make Snoke more interesting. 

 

Now just to explain where he was hiding all this time.  

 

I hope they show him to BE a puppet: we see his strings and all! And there's like a 1 ft tall guy pulling the strings!

post #1525 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

Oh?
Yeah.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
He was hiding out in an unexplored corner of the galaxy. He was discovered by an Imperial remnant searching that uncharted region for a source of power.
post #1526 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post


Yeah. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
He was hiding out in an unexplored corner of the galaxy. He was discovered by an Imperial remnant searching that uncharted region for a source of power.

That would be a great story to tell in a Star Wars movie!

post #1527 of 2918
We all know that the backstory to TFA is much more interesting than TFA itself.
post #1528 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post


Yeah. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
He was hiding out in an unexplored corner of the galaxy. He was discovered by an Imperial remnant searching that uncharted region for a source of power.

Where was this information conveyed?  One of the AFTERMATH books I haven't bothered to read?  I was under the belief that nothing explicit or concrete about Snoke had yet been revealed in the books.

post #1529 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post

 

Well, he was pissed in the original.  He barks something like "bring my shuttle."  Now he drones casually something like "alert my star destroyer, blah blah."  Yet another unwelcome SE change.

 

Oh, man, that change just pisses me off. Because Jones' delivery of "Bring me my shuttle" is infused with both anger and pain. You can tell Vader is actually hurt, emotionally, by Luke's rejection and he has no idea how to deal with it.

post #1530 of 2918
No,Vader is just a one note baddy that's pissed off about not getting even with the guy who destroyed the Death Star. Nothing complex or personal. One note.
post #1531 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post

Where was this information conveyed?  One of the AFTERMATH books I haven't bothered to read?  I was under the belief that nothing explicit or concrete about Snoke had yet been revealed in the books.
Snoke isn't mentioned by name. It's all very broadly sketched, but the implication is clear.

But, yeah, I believe that it's in one of those books.
post #1532 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 

Where was this information conveyed?  One of the AFTERMATH books I haven't bothered to read?  I was under the belief that nothing explicit or concrete about Snoke had yet been revealed in the books.


Yeah, nothing is explicit yet, IIRC, but it's... heavily implied.

post #1533 of 2918

This whole thread is nothing but Snoke and mirrors. 

post #1534 of 2918

BOOOOOOOOOOOOO

post #1535 of 2918

Two revelations I don't expect the NEU will fill in until after VIII is out: what Luke's been up to, and where Snoke comes from.

 

My hope is that Rebels gets replaced by a Post-ROTJ ADVENTURES OF LUKE SKYWALKER show - ratings are kinda tanking this year, and doing a fourth and final season to wrap things up there seems like a goodish run.

post #1536 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 

BOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

OHHHH shut up, you enjoyed it.

 

I see that smile peaking, Freeman. 

post #1537 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

Snoke is maybe the worst thing in force awakens.

snart

post #1538 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

snart

What did Captain Cold ever do to you, nooj?

 

post #1539 of 2918

You are the Sith of this forum , Thread creator. It happened as you wanted. I am expecting star wars to bag 2 B $ at box office. We will be able to predict it when Rogue one is released. It shoul dsurely gross over 900 m to 1 B.

post #1540 of 2918

snarf

post #1541 of 2918

What are we going to do tonight, Nooj?

post #1542 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 

What are we going to do tonight, Nooj?

latest?cb=20130913174300

post #1543 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

snarf

 

Where is my Thundercats movie, and why was that awesome reboot cartoon cancelled a few years ago?

post #1544 of 2918
Because Furries are a bridge too far for Hollywood.
post #1545 of 2918
Goddamn furwashing! One day there will be fair representation!
post #1546 of 2918
Revisited SITH with my friend watching these first time... and I enjoyed it? I still have problems with it, and maybe seeing this after CLONES felt like an upgrade, but I enjoyed it as nice piece of space opera. Hayden is considerably better than last time, but still has trouble working with horribly clunky dialogue. Thank goodness the love dialogue is relegated to mostly that awful scene with Padme brushing her hair.

But man, if I had to change only ONE thing it would be just to cut out the line about Padme having lost the will to live. No! There's a pretty good concept here that Lucas didn't seem to catch (yeah yeah I know). Anakin has visions of Padme dying, just like he did with his mother in last movie. He's already on the path to the dark side since killing those Tuskin Raiders, as we see him continue to have that mean streak by executing Dooku. Palpy sees his chance and manipulates him, Anakin ultimately succumbs to fear and is full evil mode. On the side, he was getting increasingly paranoid over learning that so Obi-Wan kept visiting Padme and suspects that they're having an affair. Cut to the volcanic planet with him being enraged seeing Obi-Wan pop up, accusing his wife of bringing him to kill him. FORCE CHOKES her to unconsciousness. She dies from that and complications of birth, and that's what basically turns Vader completely. He has nothing to live for and serves as a pathetic puppet for the rest of his life. Sad irony is that he ultimately made his fears come true without realizing it.

But no, that ooba robot had to say she simply lost the will to live. Ugh.

Oh and my friend thought it was okay. Better than the last one. Beyond enjoying the original and EMPIRE, she's not really becoming a fan of these. I'll be curious of how VII holds up for me and how much she enjoys that.
post #1547 of 2918

Just in terms of human beings acting like human beings and not flesh-robots, I think The Force Awakens will probably work well for her.

post #1548 of 2918
She already tried watching it months ago at another friend's but fell asleep through it. I wouldn't count on it.
post #1549 of 2918

Are you guys gonna be friends anymore after this is all over? 

 

Why are you doing this to her?!?!

post #1550 of 2918

It's a friend test. 

 

"You're either with me... or you're my enemy!"

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