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JUSTICE LEAGUE (2017-2019) Pre-Release Discussion - Page 19

post #901 of 1580

Prit sure the new trailer will be attached to Live By Night, which debuts in January. 

post #902 of 1580

Google told me that Live By Night was released tomorrow in the States and so I assumed we'd have some news about it. Fucking Google lied to me!

post #903 of 1580
It'd be fun if the JL movie does something the MCU hasn't and gathered together all the villains from previous movies for an evil versus good team. So yeah Luther, Joker, whoever is in Wonder Woman, etc.
post #904 of 1580
Live by Night opens in L.A. tomorrow, because we're better than the rest of the world.
post #905 of 1580

My faith in Google is restored! 

 

Drop all of your Christmas plans and go see it, Brad, so you can tell us about the Justice League trailer.

post #906 of 1580
I heard it's shitty.
post #907 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

It'd be fun if the JL movie does something the MCU hasn't and gathered together all the villains from previous movies for an evil versus good team. So yeah Luther, Joker, whoever is in Wonder Woman, etc.

 

 

The only way I care to see the DC movie universe's versions of Luthor and the Joker return is if Darkseid vaporizes them. 

post #908 of 1580
We'll as someone linked above Eisenberg's Luther (along with Hippolyta, Wonder Woman's mother) are confirmed to be in Justice League.
post #909 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

It'd be fun if the JL movie does something the MCU hasn't and gathered together all the villains from previous movies for an evil versus good team. So yeah Luther, Joker, whoever is in Wonder Woman, etc.

 

Since that is a really cool idea, it either will a) not happen or b) be so fucked up in execution that they might as well have not done it. 

post #910 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

Eisenberg's Luther

This sounds like an amazing religious drama.
post #911 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Slim View Post


This sounds like an amazing religious drama.


Instead of nailing his tack to church's doors, Luther posts it on Facebook and The Pope trolls him for it.

post #912 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Slim View Post

This sounds like an amazing religious drama.

Phone autocorrect.
post #913 of 1580

Got some recent Geoff Johns Justice League comics from the library yesterday. Man, he used to be so good a decade ago, why is the multiverse the only thing this guy can write about? I don't care if there are evil Supermen and black Superman on other worlds, just tell a story!

 

This got me to thinking that there really hasn't been a definitive Justice League storyline. Every character needs a The Dark Knight Returns or "Death of Gwen Stacy", and the closest is maybe Mark Waid's "Tower of Babel" when Ra's Al Ghul uses Batman's contingency plans to take down the rest of the League. 

 

That's why I wonder how you actually make a movie out of these characters. This drafting of Darkseid as the DCEU's big bad is a bad symptom of DC Comics trying to do this for years, thinking he's just a generic alien conquerer. But Jack Kirby's original conception of him, obsessed with the Anti-Life Equation and running evil amusement parks while using TV network CEOs as sleeper agents, is much more bizarre and campy than what the character has become. Darkseid as a JL villain is relatively new, as well, something that the Superman and Justice League animated series played up and Geoff Johns has continued. Really, unlike Ultron or Kang for the Avengers, the Justice League hasn't had much of a nemesis.

 

And that's the thing: from a storytelling perspective these characters are stronger apart. Most of them existed and were well-established in their own titles for almost 25 years before they were brought together. The Avengers, by contrast, were almost immediately combined into a team just a few years after Iron Man, Thor, Hulk et al had been introduced. And I doubt anyone would argue that Captain American's finest moments came before he was thawed from the ice. 

 

But really just on a functional level how does the Justice League work in movie form? I've brought up before that Batman only comes out at night, so does that mean he only joins the team when the sun goes down or the movie has to take place mostly in the dark? But just from a logistics standpoint, how do they get around? 

 

In the comics they have a space station that teleports them from place to place. Somehow I think that's, at least initially, too much for moviegoing audiences. Do they all climb into a big jet a la the X-Men's Blackbird or Avengers Quintjet? In the comics there's a lot of crossover in terms of powers, as Superman, Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter all fly so you get many scenes of them just descending from the sky because it makes for a great image. But where did they come from if you're crafting a cinematic narrative? Especially since this WW doesn't fly, and Superman has been knocked off the chessboard (at least at the start, and will probably be reintroduced without his powers for a stretch or as a villain) so Flash's running fast doesn't look repetitive. 

 

These are the things I wonder about. Age of Ultron managed to pull off a slo-mo splashpage shot, but when you get all these characters together do they even function as a believable presence? When Batman, Aquaman and Cyborg all try and walk through a doorway together, how is it not hilarious?

 

Curious to see if they pull it off. 

post #914 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

 

And that's the thing: from a storytelling perspective these characters are stronger apart. Most of them existed and were well-established in their own titles for almost 25 years before they were brought together. The Avengers, by contrast, were almost immediately combined into a team just a few years after Iron Man, Thor, Hulk et al had been introduced. And I doubt anyone would argue that Captain American's finest moments came before he was thawed from the ice. 

 

It also doesn't help that Superman and Green Lantern, at least, are effectively invulnerable gods. Coming up with a villain that believably requires a larger assembly of DC heroes is steep challenge.

post #915 of 1580

Yeah, and notice that Superman is either, like I said above, going to be reintroduced without his powers (in the comics he had to gradually absorb new solar cells) or as a villain the League has to fight and Green Lantern is conspicuously absent minus, say, a cameo or post-credits appearance.

 

WB just doesn't know what to do with these characters in their platonic form. So we get a Wonder Woman that can't fly and Batman leading the team, because that's more "relatable". But if Quicksilver is such a deus ex machina they have to relegate him to brief scenes in X-Men movies and getting killed in the Avengers, how will Flash be handled?

 

I keep thinking about how every X-Men movie has Professor X nullified at some point because he could just shut everyone's mind down if he wanted to, and that's probably what will happen to Flash.

post #916 of 1580
Let me see if I can practice CEOese....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

Got some recent Geoff Johns Justice League comics from the library yesterday. Man, he used to be so good a decade ago, why is the multiverse the only thing this guy can write about? I don't care if there are evil Supermen and black Superman on other worlds, just tell a story!

This got me to thinking that there really hasn't been a definitive Justice League storyline. Every character needs a The Dark Knight Returns or "Death of Gwen Stacy", and the closest is maybe Mark Waid's "Tower of Babel" when Ra's Al Ghul uses Batman's contingency plans to take down the rest of the League. 

That's why I wonder how you actually make a movie out of these characters. This drafting of Darkseid as the DCEU's big bad is a bad symptom of DC Comics trying to do this for years, thinking he's just a generic alien conquerer. But Jack Kirby's original conception of him, obsessed with the Anti-Life Equation and running evil amusement parks while using TV network CEOs as sleeper agents, is much more bizarre and campy than what the character has become. Darkseid as a JL villain is relatively new, as well, something that the Superman and Justice League animated series played up and Geoff Johns has continued. Really, unlike Ultron or Kang for the Avengers, the Justice League hasn't had much of a nemesis.

And that's the thing: from a storytelling perspective these characters are stronger apart. Most of them existed and were well-established in their own titles for almost 25 years before they were brought together. The Avengers, by contrast, were almost immediately combined into a team just a few years after Iron Man, Thor, Hulk et al had been introduced. And I doubt anyone would argue that Captain American's finest moments came before he was thawed from the ice. 

But really just on a functional level how does the Justice League work in movie form? I've brought up before that Batman only comes out at night, so does that mean he only joins the team when the sun goes down or the movie has to take place mostly in the dark? But just from a logistics standpoint, how do they get around? 

In the comics they have a space station that teleports them from place to place. Somehow I think that's, at least initially, too much for moviegoing audiences. Do they all climb into a big jet a la the X-Men's Blackbird or Avengers Quintjet? In the comics there's a lot of crossover in terms of powers, as Superman, Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter all fly so you get many scenes of them just descending from the sky because it makes for a great image. But where did they come from if you're crafting a cinematic narrative? Especially since this WW doesn't fly, and Superman has been knocked off the chessboard (at least at the start, and will probably be reintroduced without his powers for a stretch or as a villain) so Flash's running fast doesn't look repetitive. 

These are the things I wonder about. Age of Ultron managed to pull off a slo-mo splashpage shot, but when you get all these characters together do they even function as a believable presence? When Batman, Aquaman and Cyborg all try and walk through a doorway together, how is it not hilarious?

Curious to see if they pull it off. 

Too much thinking, as long as we pull a profit overseas. Snyder continue thrusting into my leg!

Hey I'm gonna do swell in the business. #futurefilmexec
post #917 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

 

These are the things I wonder about. Age of Ultron managed to pull off a slo-mo splashpage shot, but when you get all these characters together do they even function as a believable presence? When Batman, Aquaman and Cyborg all try and walk through a doorway together, how is it not hilarious?

 

I think Marvel gets away with it because of how well they've designed the costumes/look of each character (save probably Hawkeye and Scarlet Witch) or at least how well the costumes all mesh together.

 

These DC designers are even more apologetic about their comic book roots than Marvel is and it shows, especially when you're ripping panels from Justic League comics with such iconic heroes wearing timeless costumes (and colors).

post #918 of 1580
DC could make a movie that comes with your choice of Gal Gadot/Margot Robbie/Henry Cavill head and mother fuckers would cry about a millisecond of molar action.
post #919 of 1580

Official pic is up.

 

post #920 of 1580
Thread Starter 

Why Zack Snyder felt compelled to share a picture of his DC Comics Superheroes action playset w/ real working fog, I will never know.

post #921 of 1580
Poor Superman left out.
post #922 of 1580
oooh justice league ON ICE!!!
post #923 of 1580
Thread Starter 

He's going to come back with long hair and a beard and some Kryptonian health-restoring halo thing over his head that will look conspicuously like a crown of thorns. I'm not even joking. That's going to happen.

post #924 of 1580
Shot on location in beautiful Quake II!
post #925 of 1580
Getting clipped just saved your ass, marine!
post #926 of 1580
Looks pretty cool.
post #927 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

Looks pretty cool.

 

[downvotes Brad]

post #928 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
 

Official pic is up.

 

 

Christ this looks like that zero budget TV Movie that came out in the 70's. For years I tried to convince myself that that had never happened. But....it had.

post #929 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

Looks pretty cool.
Yeah, looks fine to me.

I know we are close to a year out but I do think it's odd that we haven't seen anything outside of generic promo stuff showing Superman.
post #930 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Christ this looks like that zero budget TV Movie that came out in the 70's. For years I tried to convince myself that that had never happened. But....it had.



...Okay. That's unfair. But fun.

BTW, were there not supposed to be seven members of the League at some point? Seem to remember that from a promo image or something. You add in Supes and that still leaves a spot. Are they going to take another stab at Green Lantern?
post #931 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
 

Official pic is up.

 

 

Waits for the inevitable paid for by committee tweets calling the movie "Surprisingly awesome!" and "AMAZING!", followed by leaked favorable reviews, followed by fanboys crying geeky tears on opening weekend, followed by everybody coming to grips a couple of weeks later that it actually was "kind of bad, sorry 'bout that!"

post #932 of 1580
I plan to defend this movie to the bitter end. I'd even prefer if it's bad so I'll be its lone proponent!

Can't wait!!!
post #933 of 1580
Looks awesome. Really liked the comic-con "trailer."

And I'll defend the Ultimate Cut of BvS. I went from hating it in the theater to really enjoying it at home. I get the DC films are very divisive but I enjoy them. Marvel lost me at Age of Ultron. I really liked Guardians but I'm also an unabashed James Gunn fan.

Anyways, count me in as hyped. MoS, BvS and now JL should make a pretty cool trilogy.
post #934 of 1580
So Superman is weakened by Kryptonite.

Does that mean Gaviscon, then Cyborg gone?

post #935 of 1580
I can't tell if that's sarcasm. It has to be.
post #936 of 1580
Thread Starter 

Adamclane99, no bullshit, I'm being sincere...

 

post #937 of 1580
11934734_555206211316022_601238999_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTIxNjAxMjM2MTU1Nzc4NTIyOA%3D%3D.2
post #938 of 1580
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim View Post

BTW, were there not supposed to be seven members of the League at some point? Seem to remember that from a promo image or something. You add in Supes and that still leaves a spot. Are they going to take another stab at Green Lantern?

 

 

 

 

I  imagine what with the WB wanting to take another stab at GL w/ the planned Green Lantern Corps. movie, that we can expect to see someone show up as whatever version of GL.

post #939 of 1580
I thought the rumors were (might have been Devin) that one of the Green Lanterns was supposed to show up either right after the final battle or during a mid-credits scene.
post #940 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul755 View Post

I thought the rumors were (might have been Devin) that one of the Green Lanterns was supposed to show up either right after the final battle or during a mid-credits scene.

 

And will probably ask Wonder Woman to smell his ring. 

post #941 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

But really just on a functional level how does the Justice League work in movie form? I've brought up before that Batman only comes out at night, so does that mean he only joins the team when the sun goes down or the movie has to take place mostly in the dark?

 

And Aquaman has to be around an ocean, right? Are Cyborg's parts water- and rustproof? These sort of narrow down their missions and locations. I can't imagine JL having a scene like in the first AVENGERS where Cap tells everyone their posts and duties. 

post #942 of 1580
Lots of sewer fights.

Cyborg, you cover the rafters...
post #943 of 1580
I really liked Man Of Steel, hated BvS, and am indifferent on Suicide Squad (I recognize all of its flaws but had an okay time with it during my one and only viewing), so I'm not ready to write this off. 
 
With the exception of a missing Superman, it looks like Justice League to me so I can't really complain. Am I scared that Snyder's going to fuck this one up? Yup. But I kind of want it to work. Affleck was good as Batman, I'm liking what they've done with Aquaman, and Wonder Woman's solo movie trailers have made me feel a lot better about the character's potential. We'll see, I guess.
post #944 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post
 
With the exception of a missing Superman

That's sort of a weird big deal.  It's the JUSTICE LEAGUE.  Isn't Supes a major part?

post #945 of 1580

It depends. In the earliest issues, the main team consisted of Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Martian Manhunter and Aquaman, with Superman and Batman only making cameo appearances. The latter two only became full-fledged members in the '70s, during the "satellite" years. He then wasn't a steady member again until Grant Morrison came on JLA in 1997, emphasizing The Big Seven.

 

Prior to Grant Morrison and the Justice League/Unlimited cartoon, I think most people were actually remembering Super Friends, because Superman wasn't a standard JL member. Hence some of the most famous covers don't feature him, or Batman:

 

 

 

And when Mark Waid did Justice League: Year One in 1999, the founding members were rejiggered as Black Canary, Green Lantern, Flash, Martian Manhunter and Aquaman, with Batman and Superman again joining later:

 

post #946 of 1580
Quote:

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim View Post

BTW, were there not supposed to be seven members of the League at some point?

 

 

...SEAS...

 

...right?

post #947 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtanen View Post
 

 

And Aquaman has to be around an ocean, right? Are Cyborg's parts water- and rustproof? These sort of narrow down their missions and locations. I can't imagine JL having a scene like in the first AVENGERS where Cap tells everyone their posts and duties. 

Yeah, kind of feels like a team of Hawkeyes. The end of BvS showed that Snyder & co. are very aware Batman can't be taking on monsters, so he'll be relegated to thugs and sneaking around. Aquaman will have to be utilized in a special water circumstance (see the end of Suicide Squad, when Croc gets to swim through the basement of a building that's submerged...in the middle of a city, for some reason). Cyborg will get to hack something and be shoehorned in as important because of his connection to the Mother Boxes. Flash is far too powerful, so he'll be knocked off the playing field somehow in the second act, and then get to go full power for the finale but in a situation that demands he sacrifice himself (You'll die! We could die! You're asking us to die!) because the only thing people remember about the Flash is his dying in Crisis on Infinite Earths. 

 

Leaving Wonder Woman as the all-purpose heavy hitter. Speaking of which, I wonder how much her own movie will establish her lasso as getting the truth out of people. It's a little hokey, but makes for great character moments. Like when Hal Jordan accidentally touched it:

 

 

Really I usually think of the Justice League as a concept as being pretty shallow, basically action figures being banged together. There's no sense of family, like the Fantastic Four, or rivalry and needing to work together like a rock band or baseball team, the Avengers. There's no sense of redemption, like Wolverine joining the X-Men. The truth about the Justice League is they're better or more thematically rich apart, and don't really MEAN anything together except for what I quoted the other day in the DCEU thread, Alan Moore's conception of them as "over-people", and that whole gods among us thing has been done to death. But every now and then you get some real insight into these characters, like when Batman gets offered a power ring (either Green Lantern's or Sinestro's yellow ring) or sits in Metron's Mobius Chair:

 

 

I hope they figure out how to make these characters gel in movie form.

post #948 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

Yeah, kind of feels like a team of Hawkeyes. The end of BvS showed that Snyder & co. are very aware Batman can't be taking on monsters, so he'll be relegated to thugs and sneaking around. Aquaman will have to be utilized in a special water circumstance (see the end of Suicide Squad, when Croc gets to swim through the basement of a building that's submerged...in the middle of a city, for some reason). Cyborg will get to hack something and be shoehorned in as important because of his connection to the Mother Boxes. Flash is far too powerful, so he'll be knocked off the playing field somehow in the second act, and then get to go full power for the finale but in a situation that demands he sacrifice himself (You'll die! We could die! You're asking us to die!) because the only thing people remember about the Flash is his dying in Crisis on Infinite Earths. 

 

Leaving Wonder Woman as the all-purpose heavy hitter. Speaking of which, I wonder how much her own movie will establish her lasso as getting the truth out of people. It's a little hokey, but makes for great character moments. Like when Hal Jordan accidentally touched it:

 

 

Really I usually think of the Justice League as a concept as being pretty shallow, basically action figures being banged together. There's no sense of family, like the Fantastic Four, or rivalry and needing to work together like a rock band or baseball team, the Avengers. There's no sense of redemption, like Wolverine joining the X-Men. The truth about the Justice League is they're better or more thematically rich apart, and don't really MEAN anything together except for what I quoted the other day in the DCEU thread, Alan Moore's conception of them as "over-people", and that whole gods among us thing has been done to death. But every now and then you get some real insight into these characters, like when Batman gets offered a power ring (either Green Lantern's or Sinestro's yellow ring) or sits in Metron's Mobius Chair:

 

 

I hope they figure out how to make these characters gel in movie form.

Mostly, it depends on the writer and current state of the DC Universe (the JL never ha dmuch personality/dynamic to it until it was rebooted and members like Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Guy gardner and company gave it a team dynamic), but yeah, the JL is essentially the "Team Up Team" of the Dc Universe.

Compare it with the modern JSA, which had the older, more experienced heroes of the classic JSA fighting together and training a new generation of younger heroes, thus given the team a reason to be and grow as a group.

 

Also, I can be the only one bothered by Cyborg's design?

I mean, I get that he IS a Cyborg, and I dont want to be PC, but its kinda weird that the sole black member of the team is mostly chrome.

post #949 of 1580

I'll give them this: Batman forming the Justice League to fill the void that Superman's absence creates is a good hook. It's especially potent when considering this Suicide Squad is created in case another Superman-level threat ever arises, positioning the two teams as diametrically opposed (something that has never been a thing in the comics until the recent Justice League vs. Suicide Squad mini-series that is presumably capitalizing on the current slate of DCEU movies).

 

It's too bad that, even though I love the two movies, paying tribute to and living up to Superman's legacy isn't really earned by Man of Steel or BvS.

post #950 of 1580
Quote:

Originally Posted by ryoken View Post

 

Also, I can be the only one bothered by Cyborg's design?

I mean, I get that he IS a Cyborg, and I dont want to be PC, but its kinda weird that the sole black member of the team is mostly chrome.

 

Cyborg and Flash look fucking awful, both in stills and in the brief glimpse we get in the Comic Con trailer for the film. "Toyetic" doesn't even begin to describe how bad they look.

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