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What the fuck!? The thread formally known as "I haven't heard a single compelling reason for Britain to leave the EU." - Page 3

post #101 of 1423

Today's fear is that the recent polls will dissuade remainers from voting thinking that it is sown up. Have you decided which way you're leaning (promise I won't badger you if it's exit)?

post #102 of 1423
Thread Starter 
Boris just got a standing ovation for his closing speech in which he lambasts the Leave campaign's "scare mongering", claims Brussels underestimates Britain and shouting about our Independence Day.

President Whitmore he aint.
post #103 of 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post

Boris just got a standing ovation for his closing speech in which he lambasts the Leave campaign's "scare mongering", claims Brussels underestimates Britain and shouting about our Independence Day.

President Whitmore he aint.

Oh god

post #104 of 1423
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhp1608 View Post

Today's fear is that the recent polls will dissuade remainers from voting thinking that it is sown up. Have you decided which way you're leaning (promise I won't badger you if it's exit)?

I'm very much remain, but like I said, it's based on my very limited base knowledge.

All I can go on is a list of widely debunked Leave stats and the terrifyingly vague plan (or lack thereof) for Britain if we leave. Nothing about it adds up.

Everytime "take back control" was uttered Khan would reply with "We need a plan not a slogan".

But judging by my Facebook, overheard train natterings and water cooler chats, it looks like I'll be needing a Visa to go to Disneyland Paris next year.
post #105 of 1423

I'm a Londoner, work in the City so I'm surrounded by Remainers, I'm one of them and debate is few and far between for the most part. The missus is about 80/20 on the remain side, but still hasn't made her mind up.

 

However, every member of my family and every member of hers (all out of London) is passionately Brexit. If Remain wins the day, it'll be London+Wales+Scotland+Northern Ireland vs seemingly everyone else in England. And I don't like those odds.

post #106 of 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post


I'm very much remain, but like I said, it's based on my very limited base knowledge.

All I can go on is a list of widely debunked Leave stats and the terrifyingly vague plan (or lack thereof) for Britain if we leave. Nothing about it adds up.

Everytime "take back control" was uttered Khan would reply with "We need a plan not a slogan".

But judging by my Facebook, overheard train natterings and water cooler chats, it looks like I'll be needing a Visa to go to Disneyland Paris next year.

 

If it's any consolation, campaigning on the street suggests it is fairly evenly balanced. My worry is that since Jo Cox death the Brexiters will now form the silent majority that tends to tip these things one way or another.

 

I sympathise with you about the quality of information. In many ways, I agree with people saying it isn't a decision that should be left to the electorate directly. I mean, I know about this stuff because it formed a significant part of my degree, afforded me the opportunity to study and work in and around the hubs of the EU, and I pretty much practice some kind of EU law every day. Even with that, I am struggling to break down and parse all the information, and more importantly misinformation, being bandied about.

 

I hope this sounds the death knell for referenda, but I suspect if there is a high turnout it will encourage populist issue-mongering in the future.

post #107 of 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint View Post
 

I'm a Londoner, work in the City so I'm surrounded by Remainers, I'm one of them and debate is few and far between for the most part. The missus is about 80/20 on the remain side, but still hasn't made her mind up.

 

However, every member of my family and every member of hers (all out of London) is passionately Brexit. If Remain wins the day, it'll be London+Wales+Scotland+Northern Ireland vs seemingly everyone else in England. And I don't like those odds.

A lot of the home counties are seemingly evenly split. Plus the big metropolitan areas like Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool veer more towards staying in. The larger urban areas in the north are too, like Newcastle and Sunderland. But I agree with you - it does feel like the metropolitan areas and the smaller nations within the UK (less bothered by appeals to some bygone halcyon age, perhaps) versus the rest.

post #108 of 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post

Boris just got a standing ovation for his closing speech in which he lambasts the Leave campaign's "scare mongering", claims Brussels underestimates Britain and shouting about our Independence Day.

President Whitmore he aint.

Did he then whip out a guitar and try playing it above the capo?

 

 

Bell end.

post #109 of 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bain View Post
 

Did he then whip out a guitar and try playing it above the capo?

 

 

Bell end.

That's hilarious. 

 

This is my favourite Boris stinger of the week...

 

 

 

Flint, not sure if this offers comfort but here is the YouGov map of voter location based on aggregated preferences across all their polls this campaign. Lots of blue for leave but the more densely populated areas tending towards remain.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-map-poll-live-latest-brexit-remain-leave-a7093886.html

 

Oh, and the latest tin foil hat theory flooding through the Brexit camp is that MI5 are going to rig the vote. 

 

Honestly, when you take a step back and compare the level of enlightened rationality of one side to the other it is a national disgrace that we've come this close to actually leaving the EU. 

post #110 of 1423

I like that he said that if they do leave, and the economy tanks, then he'll go on TV and apologise.

 

Well, THAT'S ok then.

 

As long as he's really, really sorry.

post #111 of 1423

Love this tweet because of how, apparently, you shouldn't trust anyone's opinion if they are pro remain, and also because of Schrodinger's Immigrant which is just amazing.

 

post #112 of 1423
One thing I have definitely learned from this exercise in direct democracy. Scottish women should run the country.
post #113 of 1423
Thread Starter 
Davidson really was fantastic, very impassioned. You could feel the frustration come through from the Remain speakers. The consensus seems to be that it wouldn't really have changed any minds or helped the undecided. I really have no idea what's going to happen tomorrow.

Seriously though, if you have iplayer watch it and take a shot for every "take back control" "Australian style points system" or "as a Mother".
post #114 of 1423
Haha. I think my liver is going to take enough of a battering on Friday as it is!
post #115 of 1423
post #116 of 1423

Good article, and quite correct, although I don't think anything he says will be surprising to anyone following the more literate press over here for the last nine months.

 

What is helicopter money? Sounds even more suspiciously like printing money. Have we got past the point now seeing that as something history teaches us is a bad idea?

post #117 of 1423

It's printing money once, and never doing it again and more importantly, distributing it randomly or evenly amongst the populace, not funding Tax Breaks or anything.

 

The argument is that the inflationary impact (if you trust the government will never do it again) would be minimal and absorbed because everyone's wages stay the same, we just all get a 1K bonus one day. The next month, everyone's wages and so forth will go back to normal, so Sainbury's won't raise the price of bread (for example) to accommodate the extra cash in the economy because it will just get absorbed/spent in a hundred thousand different ways and next month, people will only have the same amount of money to spend on bread. However, the hundred thousand different ways stimulate the economy, kickstarting it back to life.

 

The theory rests on convincing the economists and banks and money makers that this is a once in a lifetime, never to be repeated event.

 

It's one of those theories that probably doesn't work in practice, but the principle can be be used in other economic theories (such as Quantative Easing, which is essentially borrowing new money off myself, but promising to pay it back at some point... honest).

post #118 of 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
 

What the Rise Of Trump and Brexit Have In Common

 

Simple. Things are a mess right now. It's the system's fault. So when someone comes and rails against the system people looking for easy solutions will support them without even considering the more often than not correct solutions others offer. Simply because they represent the system. Because the system is bad and every solution borne from it is also bad. While every solution nominally against it is good, no matter how boneheaded.

 

See Syriza in Greece, Podemos in Spain, the various nationalist douchelords in the former Eastern Block in addition to Trump, Sanders, and the Brexit potatoheads.

post #119 of 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint View Post

It's printing money once, and never doing it again and more importantly, distributing it randomly or evenly amongst the populace, not funding Tax Breaks or anything.
Yeah, I remember that back when it was the 2008 stimulus check. Didn't seem to make much of a difference.

Though I suppose it's interesting as an example of trickle-up economics.
post #120 of 1423
'Fantasy island of Little England'. Sums up the Brexit case. Waverers should listen to the 'Historians for Remain' group. Dan Snow, Niall Ferguson, Simon Schuma. Many others.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/06/17/welcome-to-the-fantasy-island-of-little-england/
post #121 of 1423
Well two guys I've spoken to today are going to brexit. One is dependant on his job (he's a contractor, so bye in a week) to get a mortgage for a property he bought on spec two years ago that is currently worth 70k more than the mortgage he is laying down. He's confident the economy, our international focused company and his house price will be fine post brexit.

Both are children of immigrants. Wow.

In more positive news, the In guy handing out leaflets at the tube station looked happier than the Out guy.
post #122 of 1423
Anybody watching Paxo's live debate on channel 4 at 9pm?
post #123 of 1423
Doubt it, to be honest. Are you?

I'm not a Paxman fan and I don't think I'll be able to stop myself smashing my TV screen whenever Farage opens his mouth. I'm going to bed early with a sleeping pill, voting as soon as I have breakfast then burying myself in work until it's all over.
post #124 of 1423
Yeah, I think so. I don't mind Paxman and I'm interested in seeing how the Remain team deal with Farage's bullshit and fearmongering.

I'm curious, how would you rate Paxo compared with Robin Day? I only ask because he was my dad!
post #125 of 1423
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post


I'm curious, how would you rate Paxo compared with Robin Day? I only ask because he was my dad!

Really? That's amazing.
post #126 of 1423
Yup. Check out the bizarre line up tonight. Politicians, Historians... whatever. It's Rick Astley vs Selena Scott!

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2016-06-21/jeremy-paxmans-eu-referendum-debate-has-a-rather-eclectic-panel
post #127 of 1423
Farage has pulled out. I wonder why...
post #128 of 1423
Thread Starter 
Probably dislocated his jaw eating mice.

It's probably been mentioned here but my real worry is apathy from people who probably think we should stay but can't quite be bothered. It's so much more exciting to vote for a change than to, essentially, vote for nothing to happen.

I have no idea what's goinh to happen tomorrow.
post #129 of 1423
And there's heavy rain forecast. Could help Brexit, unfortunately. More passionate, might make the effort.
post #130 of 1423

Bookies still 1/3 on us Remaining. Though I had a mate who won a grand on a 7/1 on a Tory majority. So what the fuck do they know?

post #131 of 1423

A mate of mine sold me on a lovely little fantasy in the pub this evening. Exit wins, economy goes bang, Cameron loses vote of no confidence, Corbyn runs on a re-enter Europe bandwagon, gets elected. First proper socialist in power this century.

 

Once can dream...

 

Onto tomorrow, drinkathon anyone? We can watch Children of Men interspersed with election results...

post #132 of 1423

Shelia Hancock's about to kill it on Channel 4.

post #133 of 1423
This is a mess. Everyone shouting and talking over each other.
post #134 of 1423

My hope is Europe balks at the reality of a Brexit and comes back with another set of concessions. Foolish, I know, as that would set of a dangerous precedent.

 

Fingers crossed everyone comes to their senses and Leave are just making all the noise at the moment.

 

And then Boris Bloody Johnson can get on with being my MP, not my MP when he was mayor, then, not my MP when he's gallavanting round the country and the television studios. I've got potholes in the street to complain about or something!

post #135 of 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post

This is a mess. Everyone shouting and talking over each other.

 

 

Yeah it's complete bollocks. Anyone with even a semblance of a point just gets droned out by low brow bullshit.

post #136 of 1423
Thread Starter 
What a farce. I turned over to the football at "We have a question from Katie Price. Katie?" What the fuck is Paxman doing?

Catching Ireland beat Italy improved my mood.
post #137 of 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post

Really? That's amazing.

Robin Day was a legend.

Paxman had his moments, but like John Humphreys, once he had his defining moment of (undeserved) popular acclaim, he became a caricature.

I had a feeling the debate would be a shit show even without Farage.
post #138 of 1423
post #139 of 1423

Some interesting food for thought here:

 

https://newrepublic.com/article/134521/brexit-really-crazy

 

I'm fascinated by this whole debate, and how it will play out across Europe.

post #140 of 1423

So I'm looking at YouTube for more opinions/arguments for/against Brexit and am finding some strong stuff pro/con

 

 

 

Having a hard time finding an emotional plea like this for Bremain, but lots of officials like Cameron argueing for it. 

 

This is shaping up to be a referendum on the "Elites" vs. "The Populace" 

post #141 of 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
 

This is shaping up to be a referendum on the "Elites" vs. "The Populace" 

 

One of the most embarrassing and little spoken of facts of democracy is that in such arguments the people are on the wrong side more often than not. 

post #142 of 1423
Is that what the Man told you to say, stelios?
post #143 of 1423

Yes.

post #144 of 1423
"That's not the Britain I grew up in"

When was this magical yesteryear where the workers lived in some kind of unskilled utopia? The Britain I grew up in saw the systematic destruction of the unions by the Tory government, elected for by the British people out of complete self-interest. That one's not on Europe.

I have a friend who's a welder and she's been on a few picket lines over pay disputes. She's voting remain. She explained to me she's doing so as it''s not immigrants bringing price down in her industry, it's the bosses looking to pay people less and less. Leaving Europe will not positively affect the way these people think.
post #145 of 1423
All done and drenched. Turnout was pretty light - I was straight in, straight out. I got there first thing though, so probably not the best barometer.
post #146 of 1423
Thread Starter 
I just want to tell you all good luck. We're all counting on you.
post #147 of 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post

I just want to tell you all good luck. We're all counting on you.

 

 

 

 

My buddies and I were having a conversation about Brexit tonight. One guy, a young'n exclaimed "Why should I care about Europe?"  The rest of us wiser folks shook our head and talked him through the economic repercussions on America, never mind Europe.

 

So, just like in Airplane, I will say it a second time.

post #148 of 1423

I'd also like to extend my best wishes. 

 

Should be a nail biter, but I have hope.

post #149 of 1423

Same here, hoping you guys choose to stay.  Good luck!

post #150 of 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint View Post

All done and drenched. Turnout was pretty light - I was straight in, straight out. I got there first thing though, so probably not the best barometer.

 

Pretty empty at mine too. Was mainly young people coming in though, hopefully a good sign.

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