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STRANGER THINGS (Netflix) - Page 7

post #301 of 660
The virgin dies in this 80s universe!
post #302 of 660

Funny that Barb just assumes Steve is going to bang and leave Nancy.

 

Sort of judgemental there Barb the far sighted ginger with bad fashion sense...

post #303 of 660

I dug Steve. Mostly he was guilty of being a typical horny teenager and a show-off in front of his friends but apart from that I found him pretty likeable.

post #304 of 660

Someone we identify with has to die to prove the creature is a real threat to Will. That's all that Barb's purpose is. The snarky hate here has mostly come about in response to how certain sections of the internet have taken to full on hero worship of the character... when really there isn't much to her.

post #305 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 

Funny that Barb just assumes Steve is going to bang and leave Nancy.

 

Sort of judgemental there Barb the far sighted ginger with bad fashion sense...

 

I feel like calling someone out for bad fashion sense IN THE FUCKING 80's is a bit of a fool's errand. 

 

Seriously, Freem, did a redhead in mom jeans and big glasses break your heart in high school?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by flint View Post
 

Someone we identify with has to die to prove the creature is a real threat to Will. That's all that Barb's purpose is. The snarky hate here has mostly come about in response to how certain sections of the internet have taken to full on hero worship of the character... when really there isn't much to her.

 

Yeah, that's her purpose in the narrative. Without that we wouldn't be that worried for Will's safety and it makes his fake death later have a little more bite and actually makes us wonder. 

 

And I feel like the love for Barb started out as a bit of a gag that spiralled out of control, as things do on the internet. She's pretty much the Boba Fett of Stranger Things now. Doesn't do an awful lot but she sure makes an impression. 

post #306 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint View Post
 

Someone we identify with has to die to prove the creature is a real threat to Will. That's all that Barb's purpose is. The snarky hate here has mostly come about in response to how certain sections of the internet have taken to full on hero worship of the character... when really there isn't much to her.

This.  I'm of course completely joking about the hate, I liked her exactly as what they wanted me to like her as.  The pushback Jacob is referring to is actually a mock response to the fetishization of Barb as something more than she was.  

 

The REAL standout characters are obvious.  Dustin, Eleven, and then Ryder and the Sheriff specifically in that order.  But because the Internet is so fucking ahead of the curve and hip and kewwwwwl we can't just say the fan favorites who were fantastic are our fan favorites.  It has to be a fucking deep cut into the cast to find the hipster choice, so you can talk about how much you loved Barb while you wear ironic sweaters and drink expensive coffee in some cafe while you wear a toque indoors like an asshole.

post #307 of 660

Speaking completely for myself, I liked Barb (and the wonderfully bearded cook) because they seemed like genuinely nice people, so when they died, I felt bad. I didn't sit around pondering it afterwards.

post #308 of 660

Me neither.  They were both around juuuuuuust long enough for me to register them as people I suspected would be sticking around, and people who I liked in some way.  It made both deaths and thus their character functions, effective.  

 

Actually, I had a sort of running joke in my head near the end of the series where I felt really very bad for Barb.  I know the monster did kill other people, but the only other ones I remember off the top of my head are evil goons and unseen hunters, meaning that Barb is basically the only character we feel bad for who gets eaten.  Like, what did she do to deserve such a horrible fate?

post #309 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 

Me neither.  They were both around juuuuuuust long enough for me to register them as people I suspected would be sticking around, and people who I liked in some way.  It made both deaths and thus their character functions, effective.  

 

Seconded.

post #310 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename View Post

I feel like calling someone out for bad fashion sense IN THE FUCKING 80's is a bit of a fool's errand. 

Seriously, Freem, did a redhead in mom jeans and big glasses break your heart in high school?


Yeah, that's her purpose in the narrative. Without that we wouldn't be that worried for Will's safety and it makes his fake death later have a little more bite and actually makes us wonder. 

And I feel like the love for Barb started out as a bit of a gag that spiralled out of control, as things do on the internet. She's pretty much the Boba Fett of Stranger Things now. Doesn't do an awful lot but she sure makes an impression. 

But we don't know what happens to Barb until the second to last episode. I would have made the discovery of her fate in the middle of the show.
post #311 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post


But we don't know what happens to Barb until the second to last episode. I would have made the discovery of her fate in the middle of the show.

 

That's when it's confirmed yeah but the way the scene in the Upside Down pool was shot made me pretty convinced she was dead right there.

post #312 of 660
Her death to Foreigners "Waiting for a Girl Like You" was an excellent choice.
post #313 of 660

I like Barb because she's plainly a good friend, has a better bullshit detector than Nancy, and had her priorities set straighter than Nancy.

 

I still don't entirely buy Steve's arc, but to some degree I'm glad Nancy and Jonathan didn't become insta-couple. He seems way too messed up to be ready for any kind of relationship, sweet and good hearted as he is.

post #314 of 660

I don't know if I would say he's messed up.  

post #315 of 660

He clearly has something like a social anxiety disorder. He clearly has a weird, borderline dysfunctional relationship with his mom. He doesn't appear to be in school or working.

 

 

Dude has some issues.

post #316 of 660
"You mean, beyond pacifism?"
post #317 of 660
The character who should be a fan favorite is Nancy's dad, the most oblivious and passive dad of all time.
post #318 of 660

Im surprised people dont like Steve breaking from his a-hole jock boyfriend at the end of the season.

I mean, I rather liked it because it was build up and broke from the typical 80s tradition/cliches and felt pretty damn real to me.

Steve essentially realizes he's been a complete douchebag and self-centered, and that his "friends" are awful people who have a really toxic and negative influence in him.

He pretty much gives up his popularity and friendships over being a better person and boyfriend, which is unexpected and great, as it breaks the cliche from the setting/nostalgia.

 

I absolutely loved that he comes back to fight the monster AND ends up tipping the scales in the kid's favour.

And this also creates future tension of a possible romantic triangle, as by the end, you can see that Steve has either respect or friendship with Jonathan.

 

I think that many people see something romantic between Nancy and Jonathan, and it certainly is that way, but its build up by loss; Nancy lost Barb, and Jonathan lost Will, and they connect because of that loss and their search for answers.

Yes, Steve and Nancy staying together may be a bit hard to swallow, but I think it works because its builded up to and subverts the expected cliche from the show's vibe/inspiration/setting.

And even if there is romantic tension with Nancy, having Jonathan gain true friends in her and Steve during his mission to save Will feels much better for his "teen outcast" character. 

I rather like the show building up to forming a Scooby gang of sorts this ways, with the teens and kids.

post #319 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post
 

He clearly has something like a social anxiety disorder. He clearly has a weird, borderline dysfunctional relationship with his mom. He doesn't appear to be in school or working.

 

 

Dude has some issues.

 

The show makes it pretty clear he's barely attending school and works partime to help his mom.

He also is established as Will's paternal figure and role model, as he has protected him from their parent's failing marriage and his school outcast status, which Jonathan also shares in a different way.

He's a teen with adulthood reponsibilities shoved on him, and it shows in his social and family interactions.

His confrontation with his father makes it pretty clear he was the favored son, and he probably developed his current alternative/darker persona as a reaction to his father's bailing on his mom and his treatment of Will.

Hell, I think that had his parents stayed together and Will had been less of a nerd, Jonathan would had probably been like Steve.

post #320 of 660

Don't mistake me. I think Jonathan is an immensely sympathetic figure. And a good person. But the kid's sorta fucked up.

post #321 of 660
Eh. Lil loosey goosey with the definition of fucked up these days.

Back in my day fucked up meant you dressed up in grandmas flayed skin and smeared peanut butter all over yourself, not that you were socially awkward like the vast majority of high school kids. We weren't all mr. Popularity michael M, you show off!!!

(I was the chandler)
post #322 of 660

Well, I was part of the vast swath of undefined/commoners in high school, not part of any particular clique. I most certainly was never, ever one of the popular kids.

 

To use 80s tropes: Steve from Stranger Things, and Andrew and Claire from The Breakfast Club, wouldn't have deigned me as worthy of notice or mockery.

post #323 of 660
I assure you, you were something. You just need somebody outside of yourself to marginalize you correctly, it happens to the best of us.
post #324 of 660

...thanks?

post #325 of 660

I don't like Steve getting with Nancy, not because Steve is an asshole; you guys are right, at least in terms of being the school jock, he's not that bad.

 

BUT...

 

Nancy's entire arc is realizing her little-girl bullshit is just that--bullshit. And that includes being with Steve, which is very much shown where Nancy is clearly tired of Steve's bullshit and is far more focused on dealing with the dimension-hopping monster trying to eat her face.

 

And then he saves her, and they totes get together cause why not?

post #326 of 660
I think the idea is he evolves to meet her up in her level, not that she regresses.
post #327 of 660
I never got the idea that he evolved up to her level. She went through a life altering situation confronted with the monster. Steve on the other hand realizes he's been shallow but just a few hours ago he spray painted that Nancy was a slut. He might be thinking differently but for how long? I think it's telling the last shot we see of Nancy is she's sitting in Steve's arms but looking off into the distance. She doesn't really know what she wants.
post #328 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post

I never got the idea that he evolved up to her level. She went through a life altering situation confronted with the monster. Steve on the other hand realizes he's been shallow but just a few hours ago he spray painted that Nancy was a slut. He might be thinking differently but for how long? I think it's telling the last shot we see of Nancy is she's sitting in Steve's arms but looking off into the distance. She doesn't really know what she wants.

Or she's remembering that she had forgotten all about her best friend.

post #329 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ska Oreo View Post
 

I don't like Steve getting with Nancy, not because Steve is an asshole; you guys are right, at least in terms of being the school jock, he's not that bad.

 

BUT...

 

Nancy's entire arc is realizing her little-girl bullshit is just that--bullshit. And that includes being with Steve, which is very much shown where Nancy is clearly tired of Steve's bullshit and is far more focused on dealing with the dimension-hopping monster trying to eat her face.

 

And then he saves her, and they totes get together cause why not?

 

You've honestly never known someone who stayed with a person who maybe wasn't good for them because that person was comfortable and familiar?  While seeing Steve on the couch was a surprise, it wasn't necessarily shocking.  

post #330 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post

I never got the idea that he evolved up to her level. She went through a life altering situation confronted with the monster. Steve on the other hand realizes he's been shallow but just a few hours ago he spray painted that Nancy was a slut. He might be thinking differently but for how long?

 

If that shit was naturally part of his DNA maybe, but they made it clear that it was his friends' influence that drove him to do that, and he felt bad almost immediately.  I don't think there's good reason to think he'd regress.

post #331 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post
 

 

If that shit was naturally part of his DNA maybe, but they made it clear that it was his friends' influence that drove him to do that, and he felt bad almost immediately.  I don't think there's good reason to think he'd regress.

Yeah, this.

After his fight with Jonathan, its clear Steve realizes his "friends" are awful people, and also that Jonathan is a better person than him.

Steve essentially realizes that he truly loves Nancy, and that she deserves much better (simply because he sees how shitty he acted when he thought she was cheating on him, and how stupid he was at misreading the situation), so he matures and decides to become a better person.*

Hell, I think that by the end, its clear that he knows he is in a much better situation and relationships than he was at the start of the series; he has left behind toxic friendships, is openly in a relationship with Nancy and has come around to respect and even care for Jonathan.

He pretty much sees his friends are assholes, and that he isnt like them...something I think many people realize in their teens or at some point in their lives.

Also, dude came back to fight an interdimensional monster with a baseball bat...hardly something an 80's jock a-hole would do.

 

*I also think that its not very clear that Jonathan even develops loving feelings for Nancy...I'd say she more or less becomes the first person outside his family he has opened up to and feels comfortable interacting with. And if things evolve into a love triangle, its great they left it for season 2, as it would be much more tense and dramatic to see it develop between the characters as they stand now. 

post #332 of 660

Plus for a second season storyline, giving Nancy an obvious choice between Asshole Steve and Savior Jonathan isn't very dramatically interesting.  Having both guys with plusses and minuses is a much more dynamic way to go.

post #333 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
 

Plus for a second season storyline, giving Nancy an obvious choice between Asshole Steve and Savior Jonathan isn't very dramatically interesting.  Having both guys with plusses and minuses is a much more dynamic way to go.


Assuming they ("they" being the Duffers) even want to go for a love triangle, you're totally correct.  So often love triangles are clearly stacked in the favor of two of the points so that the audience can feel better rooting for them, but having a situation where all three individuals are complex and sympathetic (and, basically, good people) is far more interesting.  We rarely get that sort of thing when triangles are trotted out as part of storytelling, so if the Duffers go for it with these characters, it could be something we don't often see.

 

But as I've said, I'd rather see them explore friendships growing (Steve & Jonathan) and strengthening (Nancy & Jonathan), rather than romantic entanglements.

post #334 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post

If that shit was naturally part of his DNA maybe, but they made it clear that it was his friends' influence that drove him to do that, and he felt bad almost immediately.  I don't think there's good reason to think he'd regress.

He's still kind of an idiot. She's smarter than he is and so is Jonathan. But she's just a teenager and she'll grow out of Steve. There's not much to Steve. What you see is basically what you get. Nice enough dumb teenager influenced by the "cool" crowd.
post #335 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
 

Yeah, this.

After his fight with Jonathan, its clear Steve realizes his "friends" are awful people, and also that Jonathan is a better person than him.

Steve essentially realizes that he truly loves Nancy, and that she deserves much better (simply because he sees how shitty he acted when he thought she was cheating on him, and how stupid he was at misreading the situation), so he matures and decides to become a better person.*

Hell, I think that by the end, its clear that he knows he is in a much better situation and relationships than he was at the start of the series; he has left behind toxic friendships, is openly in a relationship with Nancy and has come around to respect and even care for Jonathan.

He pretty much sees his friends are assholes, and that he isnt like them...something I think many people realize in their teens or at some point in their lives.

Also, dude came back to fight an interdimensional monster with a baseball bat...hardly something an 80's jock a-hole would do.

 

*I also think that its not very clear that Jonathan even develops loving feelings for Nancy...I'd say she more or less becomes the first person outside his family he has opened up to and feels comfortable interacting with. And if things evolve into a love triangle, its great they left it for season 2, as it would be much more tense and dramatic to see it develop between the characters as they stand now. 

 

I don't really subscribe to the idea that it's all Steve's friends' fault that turned him into a bad person. Yes, he decided to part way with them after his fight with Jonathan, but early in the series he was as much of a participant as his dumb friends were, making fun of Jonathan and his family with their snipe comments in school, and bullied him in the parking lot as a group. He may have a change of heart later on, but that doesn't change the fact that he was a real asshole. 

post #336 of 660

But do we condemn him to once asshole, always asshole?

post #337 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
 

But do we condemn him to once asshole, always asshole?

 

Maybe not, but I just don't like the excuse that people made for Steve that it wasn't all his fault, for the fact that he broke up with his snotty friends to make him seemed innocent. 

post #338 of 660

Nancy ending up with Steve just doesn't work for me. It makes me feel like he fooled her again. 

post #339 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post

Nancy ending up with Steve just doesn't work for me. It makes me feel like he fooled her again. 

He has a shit-eating grin that reminds me of a snake oil salesman.
post #340 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post

Nancy ending up with Steve just doesn't work for me. It makes me feel like he fooled her again. 

It doesn't work for me either. I thought it was the weirdest time to decide that nostalgia and clichés should be flipped around. Expected her to get with the "dork"? Well you were wrong! That said, I don't think he was grinning as though he fooled her. I believe his happiness was genuine. Perhaps that's naive of me.
post #341 of 660

They're no way the Duffers intended for anybody to think Steve "fooled" Nancy, or that his turn is somehow not genuine.

post #342 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 

They're no way the Duffers intended for anybody to think Steve "fooled" Nancy, or that his turn is somehow not genuine.


Of course they didn't intend that. But that's how it comes across.

post #343 of 660

The next season should introduce Barb's twin sister.

 

Who is immediately killed by a new monster.

post #344 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post
 


Of course they didn't intend that. But that's how it comes across.

It's a YMMV situation, I guess.  It didn't come across that way to me at all, but that's okay!

post #345 of 660

I'm not sure why Nance and Steve has to work.  I'm not even sure what "work" means in this context.  It seems to be clearly staged to be a bit of a surprise, not just in terms of non-adherence to tropes either.

post #346 of 660

All this talk is gonna look pretty silly when by the end of Season 2 Nancy, Jon and Steve are all in an open polyamorous relationship with each other.

post #347 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename View Post
 

All this talk is gonna look pretty silly when by the end of Season 2 Nancy, Jon and Steve are all in an open polyamorous relationship with each other and some hideous otherdimensional mouth worms.

Just needed a tweak there.  (Cronenberg ftw)

post #348 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
 

 

You've honestly never known someone who stayed with a person who maybe wasn't good for them because that person was comfortable and familiar?  While seeing Steve on the couch was a surprise, it wasn't necessarily shocking.  


Oh of course I do. I've done it myself.

 

But that's not the read I got from that scene.

post #349 of 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ska Oreo View Post
 


Oh of course I do. I've done it myself.

 

But that's not the read I got from that scene.

 

I totally got that Nancy has an attraction to Jonathan, but she's still creeped out about the picture thing, and what's more, she gave up her virginity to Steve.  Not staying with him sort of lessens that experience in her eyes.

post #350 of 660

I'm pretty suspect that the people refusing to accept Steve's sincere repentance for youthful douchebaggery don't have an entirely accurate recollection of their own douchebaggery circa 14 years old.

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