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HBO: THE NIGHT OF - Page 2

post #51 of 161
Thread Starter 
I got that feeling that Naz is being set-up as well. Seems to me that the very notion of Freddy taking an interest in him would mean that he was off limits until Freddy gave the word.

Also, Stone feels real to me. Of course certain shady attorneys of all stripes probably take sex as payment from their clients, especially if they're exploitable sex workers...which pushes Stone into scumbag territory, even if he isn't exactly amoral. Right now, the series is really pushing Stone as a hard to love character and I'm waiting to see how he re-enters the scene and develops.
post #52 of 161

Michael, I think you and I are on the exact same frequency when it comes to this show. It was still atmospheric and there was some interesting character development, but it definitely felt like there was little progress in terms of the big picture to me. Hardly egregious, but considering this is only 8 episodes long, I was a bit perturbed this didn't seem to do much. I willingly admit that part of it has to do with how impatient I am to get to the meatiest part of this story. I couldn't care less about the prison politics. I want to see more about the actual night of.

post #53 of 161

Stone's exchange of services with the hooker is among the most real things he's done, along with his jailhouse lurking. When it comes to Nas, though, and the feet problem, for me, at least, he feels less like a real character and more like a plot device or assembled-from-parts character.

 

Seeing as the show has established Freddy has influence on the world outside the prison, I'm wondering how that storyline is going to play out. And I don't buy for a second that Freddy chose Nas because the latter is college educated.

 

Do we think Chandra is going to defect and help Stone?

post #54 of 161

I dunno, I've been getting the impression that Freddy suspects or knows Naz is innocent and wouldn't be at all surprised if Freddy was innocent as well, which is why he's gone out of his way to help him.

post #55 of 161

Because there have been a dearth of thinkpieces about this show!

 

I'm ambivalent. I do think Safar Khan (Naz's mother - I had to look up her name, which indicates there could be a problem) is undercooked and shown as too distraught to be of much use. I don't agree that Alison Crowe is a stereotyped woman. Attorney, maybe, but not woman. Chandra I'm not willing to say is underused or underdeveloped quite yet; the show seems to be hinting she'll have a much larger role to come. John Stone could easily be Jane Stone (and could've introduced some interesting dynamics against Alison Crowe, as two women competing for the same business).

 

OTOH, the show has a wonderfully diverse cast and is doing some understated and delicate examination of first and second gen immigrants, the effects of lack or possession of privilege in the justice system, and more. The article seems a bit reach-y to me.

post #56 of 161
Really glad to be getting into some possible flashbacks of the night it happened in the next episode.

STILL think the deer head has something to do with it( blood is wiped from it while police are there, plus its angle changes)

STILL think Naz should be considered a serious suspect, especially since he didn't mention the coke and he is not a drinker.

The shot of the stepfather at the funeral arguing with that guy is telling, exboyfriend or landlord perhaps?.. Or just another thing to get your mind to wander?

Thoughts?
post #57 of 161

My favorite bit from the last episode: Stone getting raked over the coals for $350 in order to get the pictures that he wanted, and then turning it around and taking Chandra for $500 for the same pictures.  

 

Loving this show.  I was surprised at the turnaround from the inmate sleeping next to him, as I suspected that he was there to try and draw out information for the police (I figured him for being a snitch on the inside).  I didn't expect him to suddenly go psycho on Nas and try to burn him like that.

post #58 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post

My favorite bit from the last episode: Stone getting raked over the coals for $350 in order to get the pictures that he wanted, and then turning it around and taking Chandra for $500 for the same pictures.  

Loving this show.  I was surprised at the turnaround from the inmate sleeping next to him, as I suspected that he was there to try and draw out information for the police (I figured him for being a snitch on the inside).  I didn't expect him to suddenly go psycho on Nas and try to burn him like that.

I missed the introduction of the character that ended up burning him because TBH my mind started to wander during this episode..Glad to hear it is 8 episodes. For some reason in my mind I thought it was 6.

I miss detextive Box, I hope this next episode has that dude tearing into some evidence and getting his hands dirty, he has been used too sparingly the last two episodes.
post #59 of 161

here's to hoping future episodes happen outside the prison.

post #60 of 161

.


Edited by Tomas Mejor - 8/8/16 at 7:48am
post #61 of 161

So...anyone getting bored? The last two episodes feel like they could've easily been one. Not knowing the final shape of the season - not knowing how this story concludes - of course makes mid-season complaints about padding problematic. For me, it feels like the show has lost its thematic focus, and we've meandered into sort of generic gritty crime story land. Production value remains high, and acting remains strong. I feel like Stone's been elevated back to a more fully fleshed out character while Naz has been flattened. 

 

While the show's still trying to plant doubt about who killed Andrea - Freddy's remark "You got some rage in you" with an appraising look - it seems that Duane Reed is likely the real murderer. 

 

Is Freddy setting himself up to be a jailhouse snitch? I'm still wondering why he chose Naz as a new lackey.

 

When Stone went chasing after Reed, I couldn't help think "John Stone is the True Detective."  Because even with this midseason lull, this show is leaps and bound better than TD S2.

 

Finally: Amara Karan, who plays Chandra, is luminous. Fucking luminous.

post #62 of 161

Caught up on this over the weekend.  The prison aspect does feel like a different show.  I'd almost rather we'd only seen Stone/Naz's parents pov.  Seeing him shave his head and smuggle the drugs from only Stone's pov would've done far more to cast doubt on him that seeing him beat that guy.

 

My other complaint, is the de-saturated blue-filter look.  Knock it off everyone, it can be sunny outside and still depressing.

 

But I'm enjoying this.  Specifically the Stone storyline.  It reminds me of something like Harper or The Verdict. 

 

Killer Prediction:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The prediction I threw out the moment the stepfather showed up to id the body: The stepfather was id-ing the body, hence the parent's were dead, hence he's left dealing with her problems and he didn't get the nice brownstone his wife owned.  Kill the daughter who's causing you all kinds of trouble and inherit a very valuable piece of property.

 

I don't care so much the the killer is caught, I just hope wee end with a definitive, "This person did it, for this reason."  

 

That and Stone being able to comfortably wear that pair of shoes in the store window.

post #63 of 161

Once again, I am with you, Michael.

 

 

Turturro is doing a great job, but I am getting tired of this being The Stone Show. However, when they cut to Naz, I get sorta bored. I just can't help but feel like they took on way too much for only 8 episodes. If Naz is innocent but has a dark side, this is an odd and accelerated way to develop that. I am certainly going to roll my eyes if he walks out of prison "hardened" -- complete with a symbolic disregard of "good boy" cards! It doesn't help that I have zero idea of how much time has elapsed either.

 

This being Box's last case was also eye-rollingly lame. I was hoping this show was going to subvert some cliches, and instead it's leaning on them too heavily.

 

My beefs aside, I absolutely LOVED Stone calling out Naz for swallowing the drugs and the scene leading up to it. It was edited, paced and shot well.

 

This is still enjoyable. It's just not quite the show that hooked me in the first couple of episodes. That first episode goes down in my book as one of the best premieres I've seen.

post #64 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd40 View Post

 

I was hoping this show was going to subvert some cliches, and instead it's leaning on them too heavily.

 

You neatly summed up my core frustration: the show started out being a very specific, gripping story. It feels like it's devolving into tropes/cliches, albeit very nicely filmed ones.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wd40 View Post
 

My beefs aside, I absolutely LOVED Stone calling out Naz for swallowing the drugs and the scene leading up to it. It was edited, paced and shot well.

 

Yes. That little sequence was really well done. Full of tension, shame, fear, anger. Stone casually calling Naz on it while Chandra had no idea what was happening. Masterfully done.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wd40 View Post
 

That first episode goes down in my book as one of the best premieres I've seen.

 

It was charged. A slow, steady turning of the tension screws to almost unbearable levels while keeping you in sympathy with Naz.

post #65 of 161

The first two episodes were flawless.  Without context, the last couple haven't been at the level of the first two, but I suspect that the final few episodes will highlight elements of the middle episodes that will make them resonate better when the season is viewed as a whole.

post #66 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
 

The first two episodes were flawless.  Without context, the last couple haven't been at the level of the first two, but I suspect that the final few episodes will highlight elements of the middle episodes that will make them resonate better when the season is viewed as a whole.

That's absolutely what I am hoping for, Judas. 

post #67 of 161
MichaelM brought up an interesting point when he said Duane Reede is the real killer:

If he is, Freddy knows him. With as connected as he is on the outside. As dangerous as Terrence made him sound, I am thinking he did it.

All he had to do was tell Freddy to watch the news, tell him he saw Naz that night and to start the wheels of making Naz look guilty on the inside.

You want protection? You want skid free shoes? You want a cellphone?

Now beat this guy up.. Now mule in this coke...

If he says no, Freddy calls him an ingrate and turns his back on him and he gets murdered in prison.

Freddy lured him in to bring him close to him and away from his friend Duane, who, might know shady stuff about Freddy that could lessen HIS jailtime while leaving Freddy in longer.

Duane is the guy.
post #68 of 161

No offense to you, but if that's true, I'm going to turn so hard on this show.

post #69 of 161

Same. If this turns out to be a long con by Freddy to cover for Duane, I ain't gonna be happy.

post #70 of 161
I'm with you both. Personally I despise the idea of guessing the killer in such a way that seems so blatantly obvious. It's a nice pat on the back monent, quickly followed up by a feeling of "I shouldn't be capable of beating the writers at their own game."

A similar feeling when you beat your old man at billiards or bowling for the first time. It is bittersweet.
post #71 of 161

If it was Duane, why would Trevor even come forward as a witness?  Doesnt make sense.

post #72 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstraw80 View Post

If it was Duane, why would Trevor even come forward as a witness?  Doesnt make sense.

He probably thought of himself as in the clear after seeing Naz go in her home.. Plus there is no way he definitely even knew that Duane did it at that point i am guessing.
post #73 of 161

Yeah, Trevor didn't know Duane did anything when he started nosing around the crime scene.

post #74 of 161
There is no way Duane is the killer. So all Naz says back to them is "what did you say" after they make a racist remark toward him. That's it, nothing else. But this enrages Duane so much that he goes back to that house, luckily finds the gate open, goes inside ,brutally kills just the girl,and leaves Naz alone in the hopes he sets him up for the murder.
I understand we're being lead to believe that Duane is a real bad dude but this seems way far fetched.
post #75 of 161

The last episode pretty much established that Duane is a bad dude. He has a healthy number of priors, including assault.

post #76 of 161
Plus Trevor had said he had "seen her around". And I wouldn't doubt she had either fucked one of them in the past, or bought drugs from Duane.

In either one of their shoes, at that time of night, when it comes to sex or drugs, you wouldn't look up and be like:

" Heyy, how you been? That coke treat you well? Great beejay btw!... Big gulps eh? Whelp see ya later!"

I think its very possible she had encountered one or two of those guys in the past.
post #77 of 161

I don't think either of the guys really knew her beforehand, or that the little altercation prompted a revenge killing.  Duane is just a bad dude with a history of violence involving knives.  If he did it (it's still early enough in the season for it to be a red herring), he just clocked a girl who was "his type" and decided to come back later.

post #78 of 161
The thing that points me away from Duane is the fact he didn't attack Naz. After the staredown he gave him, you would think a few broken bones would be in order. Yet, nothing.

A strong part of me thinks Naz is still the guy, but like someone has said before, he had no blood on him.
Edited by Call Me Roy - 8/11/16 at 6:43am
post #79 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Call Me Roy View Post

A steong part of me thinks Naz is still the gut, but like someone has said before, he had no blood on him.

 

That to me seems to be the greatest indicator of Naz's innocence. It was a VERY bloody crime scene, and whether Andrea was killed on her bed or placed there, the killer was going to be covered in her blood.

post #80 of 161
Apology for the typos after the fact...

I still wonder what affects the drugs had on his body along with the booze.

Now we know Adderal was involved. Plus ketamine and cocaine. Jesus. That leads me to believe he could of blacked out hard enough to even shower afterwards and not remember...
post #81 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Call Me Roy View Post

The thing that points me away from Duane is the fact he didn't attack Naz. After the staredown he gave him, you would think a few broken bones would be in order. Yet, nothing.

A strong part of me thinks Naz is still the guy, but like someone has said before, he had no blood on him.

 

What?  He just stares blankly after the two of them.  Naz and Duane didn't have any interaction whatsoever, and he seems totally disinterested in the back-and-forth with Trevor.  I don't think the suggestion is supposed to be that Duane did anything to teach Naz a lesson.  Just that he's sick fuck who clocked an opportunity in that moment.

post #82 of 161
After going back to watch the scene, it isn't a full on staredown perse, but Duane is visibly giving him warning to not question anything they have to say to him.

The main point being, I think Duane knows Freddy, Duane told him he was near the scene, Freddy is now setting up Naz, in the off chance the cops go for the black man that was seen near the victim.

If they wanted to really fuck with the audience and give an example of how race can be used to improperly incarcerate people, have Naz truly be guilty but have Duane arrested for a crime HE didn't commit while the "good boy" walks.
post #83 of 161

If this all turns out to be just how the modern judicial system turns innocents into criminals, I'm not gonna be happy. 

 

Still, episode has another 30 minutes.

 

Also: Happy Feet.

post #84 of 161
Seconded, Jacob.
post #85 of 161

Also, I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure there's a legitimate legal objection to a cop just saying "his eyes were like cherries in cream" or whatever the cop said.

 

Anyways, it seems futile at this point, barring some televison-esque reprive.

post #86 of 161

If there weren't only two episodes left, I'd bail. It's really disappointing how this has meandered after such a strong start.

post #87 of 161
The shot of Naz smoking crack and getting prison tats may be the funniest thing I've seen on tv this year.
post #88 of 161
To me this show has lost any sense of realism that I thought was gonna be it's best element. Everything in prison just seems so over the top.

And how about Naz's dad being the food delivery guy to his sons defense attorney. Terrible
post #89 of 161

The shows seems to have become the very opposite of what it was in the first couple of episodes.

post #90 of 161
I'm glad I didn't jump on board this train, then.
post #91 of 161

This show has gone the TRUE DETECTIVE S1 to S2 route, except it's condensed into one season.  What a drop.

post #92 of 161
Getting "Sin" tattooed on his knuckles got a guffaw out of me last night..woulda been funnier if it said "Sine" since he is a math tutor.

What a wasted boner of a show.
post #93 of 161

Ugh. Last night was the final straw. No matter where this show goes, I am going to be extremely disappointed with it. It's annoying that starting with episode 3, everything concerning the actual night of has been accelerated, while all of the trappings of a typical crime drama get plenty of screen time. I don't even hate the idea of Naz's turn; it's just unearned 6 episodes in. Had this been a miniseries of 20 episodes and a longer amount of time had been spent in prison I'd be far more forgiving. However, being in prison for what appears to be, a short period of time turning him so "hard" is ridiculous.

 

And that's probably my biggest problem with the show. This show is doing a horrible job of conveying the passage of time. I think it's fair to say that quite a bit of time would have to pass for a case of this nature to end up in the courtroom. Instead, it feels like a couple of weeks has passed. I want to see people dissecting the night of the crime. I want to see Stone build his case. I want to see the Detective uncovering more clues. I want to see everything this show is glossing over.

 

It was extremely jarring tonally, but I loved the cutaway scene to Stone sitting in the room with the support group.


Edited by wd40 - 8/15/16 at 9:57am
post #94 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd40 View Post

 

And that's probably my biggest problem with the show. This show is doing a horrible job of conveying the passage of time. I think it's fair to say that quite a bit of time would have to pass for a case of this nature to end up in the courtroom. Instead, it feels like a couple of weeks has passed. I want to see people dissecting the night of the crime. I want to see Stone build his case. I want to see the Detective uncovering more clues. I want to see everything this show is glossing over.

 

 

A thousand times this.  The sense of the passage of time is completely non-existent, and all of the procedural stuff that was so fascinating in the first few episodes (which had a real, visceral YOU ARE THERE WATCHING REALITY feeling) is almost completely gone in favor of OZ light.

post #95 of 161

So, I haven't read the whole thread, but does anybody know who the hell Treach from Naughty By Nature is playing?  He's shown up in the credits two weeks in a row, this time dead last.  I thought he might have been the guy who argues about watching Ellen, but who knows.  I was shocked to see how old Sticky Fingaz looked, it's been a loooooong ten years since he was TV Blade.

post #96 of 161
The unintentionally hilarious downhill turn this show took thus far is sad. However, reading our righteous excitement over the pilot episode and how it shows its potential to be something truly great makes it just plain tragic.

The prison bits are, quite simply, straight out of a bad soap opera, except with better acting - Michael K Williams is both a master actor (in terms of technique) and a huge presence regardless of how bad his material is, and he saves those bits of the show while Riz Ahmed, a gifted and charismatic performer in his own right, flounders about while portraying one of the most ridiculous character progressions in recent TV history (it doesn't help that said progression is also written and portrayed in the most idiotic and exaggerated way possible).

The Out-of-Prison side doesn't fare much better. There are some bits of expertly realised craft (the sequence with Box retracing Naz's steps in the cab, for example, was a great bit of cinematic depiction of what could've been a bland, exposition-dialogue filled scene), but the writing appears to have just quit.

There's no drive, no momentum, no notion of passing time (seriously, how long has Naz been in prison? I'm sure it's not long enough to turn him into the cliche he's become) and, worst of all, no apparent aim.

Even the twistiest narratives have some indications, however discreet, of where they're going (and/or why they're heading there). This show appeared to have a sociopolitical point to it with a whodunit-thriller bent to make it interesting. The pilot was all about the social outcast Naz was as a Pakistani-American and how the world punished him for daring to dip his toes into the "mainstream" world.

Even then, the second and third episodes appeared to be an indictment of both the legal and prison systems in modern America.

That's all gone. Now it's a half-assed dumbed down, outright BAD version of "A Prophet" mixed with a shitty episode of CSI/Law & Order. With superior music and cinematography - say what you will about this show, it earns absolute top marks in both those categories.

For shame.
Edited by andrevellozo - 8/16/16 at 10:15pm
post #97 of 161

25 minutes into the second to last episode. The show builds momentum a couple of times and then immediately drains itself.

post #98 of 161

OH!  FUCK THIS SHOW!

post #99 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas Mejor View Post
 

OH!  FUCK THIS SHOW!

 

If you're talking about

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
the jailhouse kiss,

 

then yeah. Fuck this show. Totally unearned and incredulous.

post #100 of 161

I was.  Ugh.

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