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GAME OF THRONES SEASON 7: ZERO TOLERANCE UNSULLIED THREAD - Page 10

post #451 of 6021
I was more annoyed that the release date for this season is July before I remembered that every show ever starts up in April:

Better Call Saul
MST3K
Fargo
Veep
American Gods
Archer

That should help bridge the gap.
post #452 of 6021
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmurdoch View Post

I'm hoping someone remembers that Joffrey's sword is also Vallyrian, and does a little grave robbing. Assuming it's accessible after the church got destroyed.

Edit: I forgot that Widows Wail was the Vallyrian sword. I was getting it confused with Hearteater. Carry on.

 

You should be happy that you forgot this because it means that unlike the rest of us, you've probably had sex in the last 3-6 months. =-(

post #453 of 6021

That's a good point about whether the crypts beneath the Sept still exist.  In the aftermath of its destruction, Cersei instructs that Tommen be buried with his siblings and grandfather, but I guess that could mean just under a bunch of rubble?

post #454 of 6021
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post
 

That's a good point about whether the crypts beneath the Sept still exist.  In the aftermath of its destruction, Cersei instructs that Tommen be buried with his siblings and grandfather, but I guess that could mean just under a bunch of rubble?


"Eh, I don't really care for Tommen, so just shove the corpse under a few rocks and call it a day."

post #455 of 6021
It has been confirmed that Season 8 will consist of six episodes, meaning the rumors were true and we've got 13 total episodes left of Game of Thrones.
post #456 of 6021
Thread Starter 

On the whole dead pool thing, I think the best way to predict this is to figure out who has served their purpose on the show. This is why I keep coming back to Littlefinger as my #1. Robb's war left Winterfell virtually unattended and the North fractured. Before he died, he was winning battles but losing the war because he didn't know how to play the game. Joffrey served his purpose by beheading Ned Stark and abusing Sansa, Tywin served his purpose by orchestrating the Red Wedding, Stannis served his purpose by saving the Night's Watch from the Wildlings and introducing Melisandre to Jon Snow, and Margaery served hers by arousing an intense and desperate jealousy in Cersei. I feel like, among other things, Littlefinger has served his ultimate purpose by taking Sansa under his wing and delivering her into the heart of danger and degradation. Like some of the other examples, it takes a while for all of this play out, but that's what I feel is happening.

 

What I think is going to happen here is that he's not going to fully appreciate what she's turned into and it's going to cost him. 

post #457 of 6021

Littlefinger is the series true big bad. He makes it to next season, possibly until near the end.

 

I think Cersei will go well before Littlefinger. 

post #458 of 6021

It only really becomes apparent what someone's final purpose is once they are gone, though.  The reason why Ned and Robb's deaths hit so hard is because it really seemed like they had more to do.  Stannis especially was built up to be chosen to take the Iron Throne, and I absolutely bought that he would, however briefly, before Dany came (essentailly what's going on with Cersei).  

 

I think Littlefinger has some part left to play.  The North doesn't really have any other schemers left to counter Dany's detachment of Tyrion, Varys, Olenna and Ellaria.  Speaking of, I've thought that Varys had served his purpose by putting Tyrion on the road to Dany for most of the last 2 seasons.  Grey Worm too, but he's still kicking.  So my pool would have Varys, Olenna, and Grey Worm near the top.  Probably throw Bronn, and Davos in to round it out.  Lord Royce and 1-2 Sand Snakes if they're important enough to rate.  

post #459 of 6021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
 

It only really becomes apparent what someone's final purpose is once they are gone, though.  The reason why Ned and Robb's deaths hit so hard is because it really seemed like they had more to do.  Stannis especially was built up to be chosen to take the Iron Throne, and I absolutely bought that he would, however briefly, before Dany came (essentailly what's going on with Cersei).  

 

 

I don't know. I saw Ned's death coming a mile away. Once it became apparent that the show was largely going to be about the Stark children, the strong heroic father that would protect them all starts looking like an obstacle to the story rather than a character. 

 

The story has mainly managed to surprise me with the -timing- of the deaths, rather than who is dying. Robb looked doomed from the moment he beheaded his main ally; the big surprise there was wiping away his entire portion of the story by taking out his mother and wife simultaneously. Joffrey and Tywin and Stannis would all have been clear favorites to die next... about a season -after- the point where they got knocked off. GoT's seeming ruthlessness to me is just an admirable lack of sentimentality towards the characters, with their deaths occurring at the moment they cease to be useful to the story instead of the timing we've grown accustomed to: after they receive a victory lap and savvy viewers are fully primed for their exit.

 

(AKA The Walking Dead's "Very Special Episode Where Character X Gets an Arc Just In Time to Die") 

 

Going from that philosophy, we should be ready for Circe, Jon or Dany to die in the front half of the next season. The story doesn't really need all three for its final run. Whichever conflict they intend to resolve first (Circe v Dany or Humans v White Walkers), makes one character expendable. A normal story would drag that out for a climactic finale death that we suspiciously watch for. This story's pattern makes an ep 1-3 exit more likely.

post #460 of 6021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post


Going from that philosophy, we should be ready for Circe, Jon or Dany to die in the front half of the next season. The story doesn't really need all three for its final run. Whichever conflict they intend to resolve first (Circe v Dany or Humans v White Walkers), makes one character expendable. A normal story would drag that out for a climactic finale death that we suspiciously watch for. This story's pattern makes an ep 1-3 exit more likely.

I just can't imagine you could be more wrong about Jon or Dani, but time will tell.
post #461 of 6021
Thread Starter 

Jon and Dany don't have plot armor around them, they have plot force fields. Narratively speaking, I think you could get away with killing Tyrion before either of them. For me, Jaime remains the biggest question mark. They've used him to deconstruct the whole knight in shining armor archetype, but there's a lot going on there and I think the writers have essentially benched him for two seasons.

post #462 of 6021
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil spurn View Post


I just can't imagine you could be more wrong about Jon or Dani, but time will tell.

 

Well, I'd bet on Circe being the next main character to go. Buuuuut, if the show intends on resolving "The Game of Thrones" -after- The White Walkers, then they absolutely could have Dany fall against the Lannisters, leaving her surviving followers (& dragons) to meet up with Jon Snow.

 

Basically, the path the story seems to be on doesn't make much sense... Dany defeats Circe, Dany & Jon meet... they defeat the WWs. That's the kind of fantasy hero journey Game of Thrones forcefully subverts at every opportunity, but we think they're going to lean into it this time?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
 

Jon and Dany don't have plot armor around, they have plot force fields. 

 

With 13 episodes left, we're essentially in the final season now. Unless you're committed to both of them surviving the ending, their plot armor has expired.

post #463 of 6021
Thread Starter 

Point 1: Come on, man, it's Cersei.

 

Point 2: I was responding specifically to the idea that they'll die in the front half of this season. No way that's happening.

post #464 of 6021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post

 

The story has mainly managed to surprise me with the -timing- of the deaths, rather than who is dying. Robb looked doomed from the moment he beheaded his main ally; the big surprise there was wiping away his entire portion of the story by taking out his mother and wife simultaneously. Joffrey and Tywin and Stannis would all have been clear favorites to die next... about a season -after- the point where they got knocked off. GoT's seeming ruthlessness to me is just an admirable lack of sentimentality towards the characters, with their deaths occurring at the moment they cease to be useful to the story instead of the timing we've grown accustomed to: after they receive a victory lap and savvy viewers are fully primed for their exit.

 

 

I don't understand what you're saying here.  How is ruthlessness is "just" a lack of sentimentality?  Yeah, that's the definition of the word.  Characters would've been obvious choices to die after a season of nonexistent story for them?  So that means they were not obvious candidates to go when and how they did.   And again, it takes a heaping dose of hindsight to determine when a character has exhausted their usefulness to the story.  Especially in those middle sections, there was so much subversion going on that it was difficult to say exactly what story was being told (the Sullied notwithstanding).  No one really called Stannis just getting steamrolled by the Boltons, and the Red Wedding was infamous among fans because it wasn't obvious it was coming, no matter how much general foreboding was built around it.

 

I also seriously cannot understand those of that assume there is going to be any significant story threads to wrap up once the Night King is dealth with.  The series began with the Walkers, it is going to climax with them.  I know the politics have been as prominent and important as the high fantasy elements, but it's always had both intermingled.  It's not going to resolve one half of that entirely and keep going for any real length of time as half the show it had been for its entire lifespan.

post #465 of 6021
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
 

Point 1: Come on, man, it's Cersei.

 

Point 2: I was responding specifically to the idea that they'll die in the front half of this season. No way that's happening.

 

Point 1: I played DC universe for many many hours, with Michelle Forbes as my evil mentor CIRCE (it's also the more phonetically correct spelling). Don't start with me on this, or I will go back to intentionally misspelling every single character's name! I'll do it!

 

Point 2: And no way they'd drop Robb and Cat and Joffrey and Tywin and Stannis before they each got their big dramatic - oh, I think saying that made them die again.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
 

 

I don't understand what you're saying here.  How is ruthlessness is "just" a lack of sentimentality?  Yeah, that's the definition of the word.  Characters would've been obvious choices to die after a season of nonexistent story for them?  So that means they were not obvious candidates to go when and how they did.   And again, it takes a heaping dose of hindsight to determine when a character has exhausted their usefulness to the story.  Especially in those middle sections, there was so much subversion going on that it was difficult to say exactly what story was being told (the Sullied notwithstanding).  No one really called Stannis just getting steamrolled by the Boltons, and the Red Wedding was infamous among fans because it wasn't obvious it was coming, no matter how much general foreboding was built around it.

 

I also seriously cannot understand those of that assume there is going to be any significant story threads to wrap up once the Night King is dealth with.  The series began with the Walkers, it is going to climax with them.  I know the politics have been as prominent and important as the high fantasy elements, but it's always had both intermingled.  It's not going to resolve one half of that entirely and keep going for any real length of time as half the show it had been for its entire lifespan.

 

Yeah, I should've used "bloodlust" instead of "ruthlessness". People ascribe a kind of twisted glee to how this story excises beloved characters, but it feels to me that it just doesn't cling to them the way so many stories do - especially TV shows, where there's a real human attached to the character.

 

I'm saying that the writer knows when the character's role is complete, but often keeps them around for one extra beat to give them (and the audience, and likely the writer themselves) greater closure. As an audience, we've grown accustomed to that, so even after seeing Robb figuratively cut his own throat, we expect him to get a more dignified, cleanly wrapped up send off.  

 

As for Stannis, the story made it either him or Ramsay. At that point, you should absolutely expect him to die, as Ramsay had to win so Jon/Sansa could kill him, and Stannis w/o an army is useless to the story. But people are so keyed in to looking for the literary build up where the story or character themselves explains the thematic point to their life that even AFTER he died, plenty didn't buy it. By simply not wrapping it in a bow, GoT's surprise presents make people faint.

 

Re: the ending... I agree that the WWs will be around into next season (although I could see them being wrapped up with a couple/few episodes to go, to give the politics & character stories room). I was just saying that whichever sequence occurs, the story that seems to be set up would have one of Circe/Dany/Jon dead in the season finale, which means for -this- show, we should expect it to hit earlier.

post #466 of 6021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post

 

 

Yeah, I should've used "bloodlust" instead of "ruthlessness". People ascribe a kind of twisted glee to how this story excises beloved characters, but it feels to me that it just doesn't cling to them the way so many stories do - especially TV shows, where there's a real human attached to the character.

 

 

Ah, that makes more sense then.  Some people do attribute a sort of cruelty to Martin's writing, but I don't know...I think the willingness to be cruel is essential to maintaining that aura of unpredictability, but I don't think it's particularly wanton or pointless. I think that quote about the moral arc of the universe being slow, but bending toward justice is particlarly true of this universe. 

post #467 of 6021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post

As for Stannis, the story made it either him or Ramsay. At that point, you should absolutely expect him to die, as Ramsay had to win so Jon/Sansa could kill him ...

Is the series really that "absolute" when it comes to getting one's own back?

Neither Sansa nor Arya got to kill Joffrey, neither Jaime nor Brienne get to whack Locke, none of the Starks got to take out Balon Greyjoy ...

I don't see how it's so neat and tidy that all this math going on really has much teeth. It seems much more as if the semi-organic mess of it all is part of the point.
post #468 of 6021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucho View Post


Is the series really that "absolute" when it comes to getting one's own back?

Neither Sansa nor Arya got to kill Joffrey, neither Jaime nor Brienne get to whack Locke, none of the Starks got to take out Balon Greyjoy ...

I don't see how it's so neat and tidy that all this math going on really has much teeth. It seems much more as if the semi-organic mess of it all is part of the point.

 

None of them raped Sansa. From that moment, I knew she'd be present when he died. Her arc demanded it in a way none of the others you mentioned really did.

 

The show's not that messy. It's following normal narrative logic; it's just not basking in self-congratulatory reiteration of its path the way many shows do. I mean, I think most of us expected the Lannisters to win out over the Tyrells and the High Sparrow, so that outcome wasn't a left turn... it was the suddenness with which it all took place that was the exhilarating surprise. This story doesn't have that many twists; but it's extremely adept at racing to the next beat before the audience has caught up.

post #469 of 6021
... and at stalling for seasons upon seasons while the audience gallops several dozen beats ahead.

So dang messy.
post #470 of 6021

I think I've had this discussion before:  Unless we're going to start going with the idea that this will truly be an apocalyptic piece where everyone dies and the White Walkers rule all, we have to start accepting that at some point it WILL start following a few rules.  That at least a few likeable/sympathetic main characters WILL survive to the end and have a resolution that may not be entirely "happy" but won't be absolute misery, either.

 

In short, unless your belief is that the purpose of the story truly IS to punish those that consume it, throwing high odds on Jon/Dany/Tyrion to die this season seems a bit premature.

 

Littlefinger?  I'd put okayish odds on Littlefinger.  He'd be the evil mirror image of Robb:  The character that "seems" like they have so much more to do/a grand purpose to fulfill who...doesn't.  If we're accepting that "anyone can die" then that goes for "bad guys" too.  Oddly enough I would consider Sansa a reasonable prospect for dying this season as well, though I don't think we lose her if we don't lose Littlefinger.

 

Or we could consider that with only 13 total episodes left, we maybe don't lose ANY "main" characters or antagonists this season (but probably a large swath of supporting players). 

 

For purposes of argument I would list the main characters and antagonists as:  Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Cersei, Jaime, Brienne, Arya, Bran, The Night's King (If you can really call him a character at all so much as a supernatural force), Sam, Littlefinger, Theon, and Sansa.

post #471 of 6021

Daily Beast Interviews Nikolj Coster-Waldau:

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/03/24/nikolaj-coster-waldau-on-game-of-thrones-that-cersei-look-and-his-darkest-role-yet.html

 

GOT stuff about halfway down. NC-W almost let slip something he said would've been spoiler, but I'm too dumb to figure it out. The writer of the piece makes a prediction, but NC-W lets it go without much comment.

post #472 of 6021
Thread Starter 
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I'm pretty sure he was indicating that there will be someone, not necessarily Brienne, that Jaime will be involved with romantically (or for political reasons). Could be Dany, which would be fucking nuts.
post #473 of 6021
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I'm pretty sure he was indicating that there will be someone, not necessarily Brienne, that Jaime will be involved with romantically (or for political reasons). Could be Dany, which would be fucking nuts.

So we can expect a whole lot more GoT think pieces next season then. That was going to happen regardless bu if that spoiler is true...oh boy.
post #474 of 6021

That seems doubtful, given that, 

 

BIG HONKING SPOILER, DO NOT CLICK IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED, I MEAN IT (Click to show)
one of the early reports was that the season ends with Jon and Dany, who have been seen in set photos together, consummating their relationship as a white walker'd dragon burns the wall down and it crumbles. 
post #475 of 6021

I went to the Game of Thrones concert on Thursday, and one of the previous season clips they showed (Jojen telling Bran he can't kill the three-eyed raven because it's him) has me more convinced than ever that this series ends with victory over the White Walkers, but Bran influencing people - probably even the Mad King - in the past to set all the horrible events in motion, thus ensuring that victory.

post #476 of 6021

I don't care for the theory that Bran's warging becomes retroactively responsible for the Mad King's madness.  The show has established that Targaryen insanity is recognized as a recurring trait and possibly linked to the incestuous nature of the bloodline (to the point where Cersei even quotes an expression about the gods "flipping a coin" when a Targ is born).  I'm not opposed to the idea that Bran somehow set everything into motion, but let it be some other flash point.

post #477 of 6021

Bran's role is to remote control one of Dani's dragons and make it fight the dragon who's remote controlled by the Night's King. That's literally the only reason there are 3 dragons yet Dani's really only shown affection for one. Well that and animating one dragon is easier than animating three...

post #478 of 6021

 

80s indie/alternative rock. I dig it. 

post #479 of 6021

Even though (or perhaps because) I was a MASSIVE James fan during my teens, I kind of hate them for using that song.  

post #480 of 6021

WINTER IS HERE, BITCHES!

post #481 of 6021

Dany appears to be in Dragonstone. 

 

HYYYYYYYYYPE! 

post #482 of 6021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename View Post
 

Dany appears to be in Dragonstone. 

 

HYYYYYYYYYPE! 


I kinda love that Dany and Cersei have these big, fancy thrones, and Jon has...a tall chair.

post #483 of 6021

Suits the North to be honest. Pomp and circumstance have no place in the snows. 

post #484 of 6021

The Red Keep throne room has got rid of the Seven Pointed star and replaced it with the Lannister Lion I see. I guess it was not really worth being subtle...

post #485 of 6021

I mean...she did kind of blow up their church, Pope and most of their congregation...

post #486 of 6021

I'm sure she feels bad about it though.

post #487 of 6021
Can't wait. Cersei's ice breath was a nice touch.

About the Night King warging a dragon. Can he do that? News to me.
post #488 of 6021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post

Can't wait. Cersei's ice breath was a nice touch.

About the Night King warging a dragon. Can he do that? News to me.


Well, I suppose that would answer the question of "How do the White Walkers not all die in five minutes when confronted by three massive fire-breathing dragons".

post #489 of 6021
Dragons only have so much fire breathing in them at a time, I'd guess. And I think there are going to WAY more White Walkers than people think.
post #490 of 6021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post

Can't wait. Cersei's ice breath was a nice touch.

About the Night King warging a dragon. Can he do that? News to me.


The White Walkers can control the dead, and if Cersei is dumb enough to actually kill one of Dani's dragons....

 

But hey, maybe they'll finally pull the trigger on ICE SPIDERS damnitt!

post #491 of 6021
Thread Starter 
The night is dark and full of first episode leaks.* Be careful out there on the internets.







*No, I have not seen it or read any descriptions of it. I'm not going to watch it like that.
post #492 of 6021
Interesting that they end on "The New Season" and not "Season 7".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syd View Post

... if Cersei is dumb enough to actually kill one of Dani's dragons ...

???

If you're being attacked by dragons wouldn't you have to be an utter moron not to try and kill them?
post #493 of 6021
Hee hee....



And is this Dragonstone?

post #494 of 6021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post

Hee hee....



And is this Dragonstone?

Well, good to see someone thought ahead and got the Unsullied some warmer clothes.

post #495 of 6021

Speaking of the Unsullied...this is the no spoiler thread.  I think that goes for pics as well as books.

post #496 of 6021
Sorry. The first pics ok surely and I thought the Dani pic was too because you can't really tell where they are. At least I can't.
post #497 of 6021
Winter is coming. And so are GOT spin offs.

http://www.avclub.com/article/hbo-developing-4-different-game-thrones-spinoffs-254798?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=feeds

Miniseries could be interesting. Maybe set in the past.
post #498 of 6021

This will be like the harry potter maurauders season in that it will never happen. 

post #499 of 6021
I welcome GoT spin-offs.
 
--Dance of Dragons has enough material for one fucking kick-ass 10 episode season.
 
--Dunk and Egg ... ehh ... the first story would make a great 4ish episode miniseries.  I would try to fold the second and third together into a six episode miniseries.  
 
--Robert's Rebellion, also enough material for a great single season affair.
 
--The Doom(tm) and Aegon the Conqueror's invasion seems like the only source story that could run for a long time.
post #500 of 6021

Helgeland's on one? Interesting.

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