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STAR TREK BEYOND Post-Release - Page 7

post #301 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

"I'm scared, Spock."

I'll give this, Pine and Quinto really sell it. As much of a pointless riff the scene is, they don't slouch.

It's only when they make Quinto yell Khan's name that the pain comes back.

It's the only scene that had any honesty in it. It's really, really fucking good. Too bad about everything else.
post #302 of 1383
Ugh.

That fucking 9/11 scene with Vengeance crashing into the city. I know destruction is a big thing in today's blockbuster, but it's more insufferable in this case because of the connotations Orci brings to it. It's uncomfortable to watch and just dumb dumb dumb.

I'm so glad Orci is gone.

Want to make clear I was enjoying this movie in a "this is soooo bad" kind of way, but by the time the Vengeance crashes I'm no longer having fun.
post #303 of 1383
Here's a thing: Idris Elba is really good in this movie. I disagree completely that the movie wastes him. Dudes got presence for days.
post #304 of 1383
The ending can be summed up as "oh right, we're supposed to be Star Trek right? This is what we should have been doing all along? Next time for sure!"

Thankfully, it did happen next time.
post #305 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ska Oreo View Post

Here's a thing: Idris Elba is really good in this movie. I disagree completely that the movie wastes him. Dudes got presence for days.
Agreed. Only quibble would be that they held off on the reveal a little too long.
post #306 of 1383
hahahaha the KHAN scream

I was laughing so hard in that advance screening...

Good thing Pegg, Eve, and Cho weren't actually in the theater at that time.
post #307 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul755 View Post

Agreed. Only quibble would be that they held off on the reveal a little too long.

If I hadn't known who was playing Krall, I would thought the twist was: IT WAS IDRIS ELBA THE ENTIRE TIME!!!!
post #308 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

hahahaha the KHAN scream

I was laughing so hard in that advance screening...

Good thing Pegg, Eve, and Cho weren't actually in the theater at that time.

Awww man. Now I just have this image in my head of Simon Pegg giving Mcnooj the death glare.





It makes me moist.
post #309 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

hahahaha the KHAN scream

I was laughing so hard in that advance screening...

Good thing Pegg, Eve, and Cho weren't actually in the theater at that time.

BETTER IF THEY WERE!

 

Then they would feel shame and know what they did was a joke!  I'd prefer that over thinking "Hey we did a good job."

post #310 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

"You don't respect the chair, because you're not ready for it."

This was the moment I thought to myself the first time seeing this that the film would fix Kirk. He didn't earn his place at the end of 2009 and this film addresses it head on which I really respect. It's a scene like this that elevates it above 2009 for me.

If only the film followed through...


I'd forgotten that, but yes this scene gave me so much hope (in the moment).... 

 

I still maintain this film could have been received 180 degrees differently (by the fans) with just a simple tweak:   Have Cumberbatch SAY he's Kahn, but not BE Kahn.   He's the No 2 or No 3 guy in charge on the Botany Bay who gets woken up this time instead of the head honcho, but given Kahn's reputation he decides to pass himself off as the boss when he's woken up.   

 

Play the rest of the movie exactly the same, with the only difference being a 3rd act reveal shot that shows Kahn (the real one) still asleep in one of those pods.  End the movie with the same dolly shot showing "Kahn" still asleep but now in the warehouse with the Ark or whatever, except show the real guy (since they sort out the ID issue during the film).  

 

We get an actual twist on the Botany Bay episode, giving this Harrison dude the spotlight for real and introducing another bad guy to the Star Trek lexicon.  It would have been a great story about "What happens when the Number 1 Henchman gets to run the show?" and would have still let them do everything they did with 'Batch, including all the silly Kahn dialogue, but neatly sidestepped fan rage and legitimate "fucking KIDDING me?!" reactions to a translucent brit playing a Sikh.  

 

It's ALMOST probably doable in a fan edit.  

post #311 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ska Oreo View Post

It's the only scene that had any honesty in it. It's really, really fucking good. Too bad about everything else.

I actually really like the scene where Kirk thinks the Vengeance is going to destroy them all and turns to crew and quietly says "I'm sorry" or something along those lines. One of the few instances of Kirk showing even a hint of the burden carried by leadership.
post #312 of 1383
There's a moment in a turbo lift when Kirk tells Uhura "I'm sorry, that was inappropriate". There's a handful of moments where Kirk acts like an adult and made me realize Pine really could play a good Kirk if he had been given a chance. Thankfully BEYOND does that.
post #313 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 

BETTER IF THEY WERE!

 

Then they would feel shame and know what they did was a joke!  I'd prefer that over thinking "Hey we did a good job."

hey, maybe they decided not to sit through the movie because they knew what it was!

post #314 of 1383
If Pegg, Pine and Quinto had any part in telling Paramount that they did not want to have Orci on as writer and director, I'll kiss them.
post #315 of 1383

I'll do more than kiss them.  

post #316 of 1383
It's amazing that there was a point when Orci had the gig. Unless I had assuring word of mouth, I wouldn't have bothered seeing a Trek film this year.
post #317 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post
 


I'd forgotten that, but yes this scene gave me so much hope (in the moment).... 

 

I still maintain this film could have been received 180 degrees differently (by the fans) with just a simple tweak:   Have Cumberbatch SAY he's Kahn, but not BE Kahn.   He's the No 2 or No 3 guy in charge on the Botany Bay who gets woken up this time instead of the head honcho, but given Kahn's reputation he decides to pass himself off as the boss when he's woken up.   

 

Play the rest of the movie exactly the same, with the only difference being a 3rd act reveal shot that shows Kahn (the real one) still asleep in one of those pods.  End the movie with the same dolly shot showing "Kahn" still asleep but now in the warehouse with the Ark or whatever, except show the real guy (since they sort out the ID issue during the film).  

 

We get an actual twist on the Botany Bay episode, giving this Harrison dude the spotlight for real and introducing another bad guy to the Star Trek lexicon.  It would have been a great story about "What happens when the Number 1 Henchman gets to run the show?" and would have still let them do everything they did with 'Batch, including all the silly Kahn dialogue, but neatly sidestepped fan rage and legitimate "fucking KIDDING me?!" reactions to a translucent brit playing a Sikh.  

 

It's ALMOST probably doable in a fan edit.  


Somebody on trekmovie came up with a better spin for ID that would have more than salvaged it for me, with Kirk remaining Pike's XO for most of the movie, seeing firsthand how a captain respects chainofcommand and also when to let dictates of conscience/ethics transcend same. The guy had Pike dying in Kirk's place in engine room restart, which given how well GReenwood managed the lesser death scene he actually got, would have really been something to watch.

 

Presumably Kirk could have then committed Enterprise to keeping big black ship from razing SF skyline (maybe JUST Alcatraz), so he could have had his moment as well. Leave all that magic blood crap out, or maybe show it as less than perfect if you HAD to have it, leaving Pike a vegetable or basket case to echo MENAGERIE.

post #318 of 1383
Another moment occurs that really makes me think the filmmakers have no confidence in holding audiences' attention: When Kirk is arguing with Spock about using torpedoes on Khan, Bones is constantly reading Kirk's vitals, so every now and then Kirk has to ask what Bones is doing when he's in the middle of talking with Spock. This kind of stuff happens a lot in the two movies where they feel the need to add some unnecessary element because they're so scared of boring audiences with important exposition. It's why we get Nutty Profressor hands and Uhura stripping off her clothes as she's talking about stuff that Kirk will recall later in the Nutty Professor scene. Or maybe what's being said is so nonsensical that they kind of need to throw in distractions to keep you from thinking and realizing "this is bullshit".
post #319 of 1383
CONSTANT

DELIGHTS
post #320 of 1383
Stocks ranting about NuTrek is one of life's sublime pleasures.
post #321 of 1383
It's ironic that George Lucas was known as the "Faster, more intense" director when that's Abrams focus in every scene, no matter what.

Also had a thought after my second viewing of 'Beyond'. Jaylah is Rey done better. She doesn't have the BIG moments, as she is a supporting character, but she has a clear arc that goes from fear and survival to teamwork. Her contributions are vital, she stands up for herself against big odds, and she's skilled, but clearly worked for it.
post #322 of 1383
I really liked Jaylah, but I kind of hope we don't see more of her. The unique thing about TOS was that aside from Mudd, there were never any recurring guest characters. Actors would return, but in different roles. Jaylah could really just work as another guest character that shined when she did. Thus the next film will have new guest characters to deal with.

Revisiting the TOS films, I think it was ultimately a mistake to bring back Saavik after KHAN. Even if Alley returned in the role, the character still treated like a token Vulcan on the script rather than a meaningful character. Having her in just that one film was enough, though I think bringing her back for THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY would have been wonderful having her be a traitor.
post #323 of 1383
I want Jaylah back. She's cute and she likes Public Enemy.
post #324 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by mondguy View Post

Also had a thought after my second viewing of 'Beyond'. Jaylah is Rey done better. She doesn't have the BIG moments, as she is a supporting character, but she has a clear arc that goes from fear and survival to teamwork. Her contributions are vital, she stands up for herself against big odds, and she's skilled, but clearly worked for it.

 

Exactamundo! (Urgh. Gotta stop saying that.)

post #325 of 1383

Stocks, would you agree to star in a slasher movie for me where Lindelof, Orci, Kurtzmann, and Abrams meet up for a drunken bender of a weekend where they're gonna spooge out a script for an Indiana Jones reboot  (they drink lots of sake because they want to pretend they are Kurosawa writing one of his movies) and then you slowly take them out one by one? But you torture them first with their own ineptitude and hackness, giving them example after example of where they borrowed ideas or screwed their character motivations up or had a plot hole that was actually bigger than the plot itself, until they realize, "Omg, I'm a shitty writer," and then you end them.

post #326 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ska Oreo View Post

I want Jaylah back. She's cute and she likes Public Enemy.


I'm a huge rap fan and while I think rap and Trek are like oil and water, the way they're going with nu-Trek, they might as well have Lil Wayne in the next one. Cuz he is an alien.

 

Weeze-Weeze the Apocalyptic he could call himself, destroying Earth to the tune of "Lollipop."

post #327 of 1383
I'm imagining Orci stumbling through the woods, screaming "BOSTON WAS A FALSE FLAG!"

Make his end a particularly humiliating one, Stocks.
post #328 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

Revisiting the TOS films, I think it was ultimately a mistake to bring back Saavik after KHAN. Even if Alley returned in the role, the character still treated like a token Vulcan on the script rather than a meaningful character. Having her in just that one film was enough, though I think bringing her back for THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY would have been wonderful having her be a traitor.

 

That was such a missed opportunity not having her in TUC. Valeris has solid reasons for the betrayal, but fundamentally, she's just a random character on the ship. Her betrayal and Spocks forced Mind Meld would have had much more weight had it been the same character we'd seen in two prior films. I know she was originally supposed to be Saavik, but they didn't like the idea of having an established character be a villain. Guess it goes against the Star Trek ethos.

post #329 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint View Post
 

 

That was such a missed opportunity not having her in TUC. Valeris has solid reasons for the betrayal, but fundamentally, she's just a random character on the ship. Her betrayal and Spocks forced Mind Meld would have had much more weight had it been the same character we'd seen in two prior films. I know she was originally supposed to be Saavik, but they didn't like the idea of having an established character be a villain. Guess it goes against the Star Trek ethos.

I thought it was more about Nicholas Meyer refusing to do it without Kirstie Alley.

post #330 of 1383
Speaking of...there is your logical Checkov replacement, nu-Saavik.
post #331 of 1383
Still haven't gotten to see this, but saw this and I'm not sorry I did:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIL-7qFh0Hw/

The strangest thing for me is the timeline compression/disconnect though....

In the Prime timeline, the 1701 had been through not one but two 5 year missions (and that's ignoring Pike's time as captain), and was downmoded to a training vessel by the time it was blown up and we got the (nearly identical) 01-A model.

In this timeline, the 01 got a minor refit between Trek 09 and ID, then gets mulched on Year 3 of 5, and now we get the 01-A that looks like.... The Prime Timeline 01!

Seriously, I'm going to nerd hard here for a minute so please still love me, but the 01-A looks like it has the nacelle spacing and bussard design of the original 01, the landing pad markings on the bottom primary hull, and even the angled leading edge of the saucer section that the TOS 01 had, just with a JJ-skin applied over it. It's in almost every way the ship I THOUGHT we'd get in Trek 09, and it's making my eyes go crossed seeing such a (relatively) faithful adaptation of the TOS 01 be christened with the 01-A signage.

By contrast, TMP 01 refit was a DRAMATIC transformation of the 01 from TOS (I love the Refit/01-A nacelles with all my heart), and after it was finally destroyed in SFS, the A-model had only minor changes, mostly in coloring/markings.

It's weird I tells ya!
post #332 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post

Still haven't gotten to see this, but saw this and I'm not sorry I did:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIL-7qFh0Hw/

 

 

Thank you for that.  I was scouring all over looking for images of 1701-A from this movie.

post #333 of 1383

I don't have time at the moment to read this entire thread, so everything I could say is probably already covered, but I really, really enjoyed BEYOND.  I think it's as close to a perfect fusion of Classic-TREK with the demands of modern action blockbusters as you can probably get.  Fantastic character work (loved seeing the Bones/Spock friendship get highlighted), solid action (the extended attack on the Enterprise in the first act is full of great stuff), and Giacchino's best score yet for the series (his theme for Starbase Yorktown is terrific).  I also appreciated the message about the value of coming together to solve problems, something that's apparently a radical idea in our current "us vs. them"/team-based public discourse.

 

All in all, best STAR TREK film since THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY.

post #334 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by mondguy View Post

Thank you for that.  I was scouring all over looking for images of 1701-A from this movie.

You bet! It's just so strange to me that the new 01-A is really an updated TOS 01, which in retrospect makes the Trek 09 Enterprise look like a unique bird.
post #335 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post

Still haven't gotten to see this, but saw this and I'm not sorry I did:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIL-7qFh0Hw/
 

 

Urgh. I HATE it when someone takes a genuinely good moment from a movie and then uploads a shitty camcorder version of it somewhere where it's devoid of context. The same thing happened with the "Puny God!" scene in the wake of The Avengers and it drove me mad.

 

Sorry for the derail. Just had to rant.

post #336 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post

Still haven't gotten to see this, but saw this and I'm not sorry I did:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIL-7qFh0Hw/

The strangest thing for me is the timeline compression/disconnect though....

In the Prime timeline, the 1701 had been through not one but two 5 year missions (and that's ignoring Pike's time as captain), and was downmoded to a training vessel by the time it was blown up and we got the (nearly identical) 01-A model.

In this timeline, the 01 got a minor refit between Trek 09 and ID, then gets mulched on Year 3 of 5, and now we get the 01-A that looks like.... The Prime Timeline 01!

Seriously, I'm going to nerd hard here for a minute so please still love me, but the 01-A looks like it has the nacelle spacing and bussard design of the original 01, the landing pad markings on the bottom primary hull, and even the angled leading edge of the saucer section that the TOS 01 had, just with a JJ-skin applied over it. It's in almost every way the ship I THOUGHT we'd get in Trek 09, and it's making my eyes go crossed seeing such a (relatively) faithful adaptation of the TOS 01 be christened with the 01-A signage.

By contrast, TMP 01 refit was a DRAMATIC transformation of the 01 from TOS (I love the Refit/01-A nacelles with all my heart), and after it was finally destroyed in SFS, the A-model had only minor changes, mostly in coloring/markings.

It's weird I tells ya!

What are you seeing that I'm not? That new 1701-A looks exactly like the previous 1701-JJ that just got destroyed.
post #337 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post

Urgh. I HATE it when someone takes a genuinely good moment from a movie and then uploads a shitty camcorder version of it somewhere where it's devoid of context. The same thing happened with the "Puny God!" scene in the wake of The Avengers and it drove me mad.

Sorry for the derail. Just had to rant.

I agree. I just lose objectivity when it's the Enterprise. I'm the guy who seems relatively normal and then chokes up in TMP during the dry dock scene.
post #338 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stale Elvis View Post

What are you seeing that I'm not? That new 1701-A looks exactly like the previous 1701-JJ that just got destroyed.

Nope.

For starters the nacelles are about 30% wider apart (more in keeping with the prime timeline TOS 01/01-A), the neck is now not scooted so far back on the secondary hull (again, now closer to the TMP series 01/01-A), the nacelles no longer have the "hood" that JJ added to them, and the saucer section edge is now on an angle instead of having a rectangular cross section (I'm not explaining that well - just compare the TOS Enterprise to TMP Enterprise and you'll see the TOS saucer edge had an angle to it and the movie versions don't)

Here we go, take a look:

post #339 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post


Nope.

For starters the nacelles are about 30% wider apart (more in keeping with the prime timeline TOS 01/01-A), the neck is now not scooted so far back on the secondary hull (again, now closer to the TMP series 01/01-A), the nacelles no longer have the "hood" that JJ added to them, and the saucer section edge is now on an angle instead of having a rectangular cross section (I'm not explaining that well - just compare the TOS Enterprise to TMP Enterprise and you'll see the TOS saucer edge had an angle to it and the movie versions don't)

Here we go, take a look:


Honestly, I - too - initially thought the new A was basically the same design, just with the wider nacelle spacing.  Your description and the picture do indicate it's a bit more involved than that, but it's also nowhere near the total overhaul the original retrofit was when it debuted in TMP.  Not that it needed to be anything drastic in the first place, but I think I was anticipating something a bit more dramatically different.  I'm okay with the new A being close to the '09 Enterprise, as I like that design, too.

post #340 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasp View Post

Stocks, would you agree to star in a slasher movie for me where Lindelof, Orci, Kurtzmann, and Abrams meet up for a drunken bender of a weekend where they're gonna spooge out a script for an Indiana Jones reboot  (they drink lots of sake because they want to pretend they are Kurosawa writing one of his movies) and then you slowly take them out one by one? But you torture them first with their own ineptitude and hackness, giving them example after example of where they borrowed ideas or screwed their character motivations up or had a plot hole that was actually bigger than the plot itself, until they realize, "Omg, I'm a shitty writer," and then you end them.

Nah, too violent. I'd do a Mission: Impossible assignment by infiltrating Bad Robot to plant incriminating evidence that links Orci to ISIS.

Freeman can be the honeypot.
post #341 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by machiav View Post
 

I thought it was more about Nicholas Meyer refusing to do it without Kirstie Alley.


No it was Kirstey Alley wanted way more money than they were willing to pay, now that she had become famous.  It was in Shatner's book.

post #342 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post


Honestly, I - too - initially thought the new A was basically the same design, just with the wider nacelle spacing.  Your description and the picture do indicate it's a bit more involved than that, but it's also nowhere near the total overhaul the original retrofit was when it debuted in TMP.  Not that it needed to be anything drastic in the first place, but I think I was anticipating something a bit more dramatically different.  I'm okay with the new A being close to the '09 Enterprise, as I like that design, too.

Yeah, I've always hated the glowing bussard collector design and fell completely in love with TMP refit/original 01-A design as a kid, so when I heard we were getting a new 01-A I was pretty excited to see what the alternate timeline version of that design was (my thinking was if the Trek 09 design was a spin on TOS Enterprise, then the 01-A in the new timeline would have to be a riff on the Refit/01-A from the Prime timeline) so I'm a little disappointed that's not what we're getting... on the other hand we're getting a pretty close adaptation of TOS Enterprise after all, which is kind of funny.
post #343 of 1383
This is like the Vader's mask thing. Enterprises look different?

I mean....I can tell the difference between the ones from Generations and First Contact because that's the new one after the previous one got FUBARd but, other than that?
post #344 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones View Post
 


No it was Kirstey Alley wanted way more money than they were willing to pay, now that she had become famous.  It was in Shatner's book.


She wanted more money than they were willing to pay for the third movie. For the sixth, I thought she just turned them down flat? They really didn't have much to spend on TUC though - Meyer told me he couldn't afford Horner at that point.

post #345 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraid uh noman View Post

This is like the Vader's mask thing. Enterprises look different?

I mean....I can tell the difference between the ones from Generations and First Contact because that's the new one after the previous one got FUBARd but, other than that?

Well, I'm pretty sure you could tell the difference between the model used for the TV show and the model used for the original series movies, and that's the kind of difference we're talking about being expected - what we're getting is some clear differences, but not nearly anything on that scale.

Heck, someone else had to point out to me there's a ton of differences between the Enterprise in Trek 09 and in ID/Beyond, but since I only saw ID once I didn't pick them up.
post #346 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post

(my thinking was if the Trek 09 design was a spin on TOS Enterprise, then the 01-A in the new timeline would have to be a riff on the Refit/01-A from the Prime timeline)

That was my expectation, as well.  Clearly the powers-that-be had other ideas!  I don't consider it a huge missed opportunity, in any case.  It's still identifiably the Enterprise.

post #347 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post

That was my expectation, as well.  Clearly the powers-that-be had other ideas!  I don't consider it a huge missed opportunity, in any case.  It's still identifiably the Enterprise.

Agreed, and it even makes timeline sense sort of - the original series refit was done after something like 15+ years of service, whereas the alt-timeline 01 was destroyed after only 3ish. It's as if we got the 01-A refit between the 2nd and 3rd season of TOS - makes sense that it would look more like the original Enterprise than the refit that would come a decade later.
post #348 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post


Agreed, and it even makes timeline sense sort of - the original series refit was done after something like 15+ years of service, whereas the alt-timeline 01 was destroyed after only 3ish. It's as if we got the 01-A refit between the 2nd and 3rd season of TOS - makes sense that it would look more like the original Enterprise than the refit that would come a decade later.


Right.  An Enterprise B in this timeline, for example, might be slightly more in a TMP style.

post #349 of 1383
I do remember the original JJ-Enterprise getting a new wide impulse engine at the end of STID. Don't remember any other differences. I actually thought it looked worse, but that was probably due to the context of the movie it was in. They carried the same design into 'Beyond'
post #350 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post

Right.  An Enterprise B in this timeline, for example, might be slightly more in a TMP style.

I would love to see that (the B being an Excelsior class always bugged me after the ship rivalry of SFS!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mondguy View Post

I do remember the original JJ-Enterprise getting a new wide impulse engine at the end of STID. Don't remember any other differences. I actually thought it looked worse, but that was probably due to the context of the movie it was in. They carried the same design into 'Beyond'

They actually downsized the nacelles pretty dramatically for ID and swept back the pylons while keeping the narrow horizontal spacing, which once I saw it now just makes me think of a squid for some reason:

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