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STAR TREK BEYOND Post-Release - Page 12

post #551 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

Stupid camera work aside, it's a shame the rest of the nuTrek series hasn't done Spock half as well as that two minute clip.

Asshole Vulcans and a spiteful Spock? Nah, I'll take his banter with Bones in BEYOND many times over.
post #552 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

Stupid camera work aside, it's a shame the rest of the nuTrek series hasn't done Spock half as well as that two minute clip.

Asshole Vulcans and a spiteful Spock? Nah, I'll take his banter with Bones in BEYOND many times over.

 

Maybe the Vulcans are assholes. But I was speaking specifically of what those two minutes reveal about Spock, much without any dialogue:

 

His struggle with emotion

His devotion to his mother

His struggle with identity

His blindness towards his own emotions as he propels himself towards being purged of them (which I suspect would be impossible, given his human ancestry)

His intelligence and self control

 

Spock is presented as a cool, calculating person here....but we also get a great sense of the deep emotions in him that he seeks to quiet. Conflict, depth, and more.

 

In BEYOND, we get mostly quips and flat line delivery with no real insights or reasons to care about him. 

post #553 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

I was speaking specifically of what those two minutes reveal about Spock, much without any dialogue:

His struggle with emotion
His devotion to his mother
His struggle with identity
His blindness towards his own emotions as he propels himself towards being purged of them (which I suspect would be impossible, given his human ancestry)
His intelligence and self control

Spock is presented as a cool, calculating person here....but we also get a great sense of the deep emotions in him that he seeks to quiet. Conflict, depth, and more.

This is a rather tidy demonstration of how that film isn't nearly as idiotic as so many try to paint it as. It's full of economic characterisation like that.
post #554 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post
 

 

Maybe the Vulcans are assholes. But I was speaking specifically of what those two minutes reveal about Spock, much without any dialogue:

 

His struggle with emotion

His devotion to his mother

His struggle with identity

His blindness towards his own emotions as he propels himself towards being purged of them (which I suspect would be impossible, given his human ancestry)

His intelligence and self control

 

Spock is presented as a cool, calculating person here....but we also get a great sense of the deep emotions in him that he seeks to quiet. Conflict, depth, and more.

 

In BEYOND, we get mostly quips and flat line delivery with no real insights or reasons to care about him. 

I agree with a lot of this except the dig at his performance in Beyond.  I thought there were lots of insights... even though a lot of it had to come through dialogue expressing it as such.  It's stuff I wish the movie had more time to explore in terms of his sense of responsibility to his people in response to the news that Spock Prime had passed away.

post #555 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post

This is a rather tidy demonstration of how that film isn't nearly as idiotic as so many try to paint it as. It's full of economic characterisation like that.

There's a few good things in the first nuTrek I will admit, but it's still an idiotic film.
post #556 of 1383

I'm not going to pay cinema prices for it, but I will be giving BEYOND one more viewing, at least. If nothing else, for a better sound element than the shitty equipment at the theater. I remain skeptical that anyone outside of Kirk has any real depth or character building going on.

post #557 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

There's a few good things in the first nuTrek I will admit, but it's still an idiotic film.

 

Agreed. I think it's a dumb film punctuated by some good to great moments and scenes, and carried along by the energy of the cast and direction. But there's a lot of dumb to ST2009.

post #558 of 1383
I love the jovial energy of it the most, I just wish the film wasn't filled with asshole protagonists and bad filmmaking.
post #559 of 1383
From your infinite series of posts on the subject of 'NuTrek', I get the distinct impression you tend to interpret interpersonal conflict as assholery, physical humour as mockery, and camera or editing approaches beyond a leisurely tempo as bad filmmaking.
post #560 of 1383
The way Abrams/Orci/Kurtzman/Lindelof execute it, absolutely.
post #561 of 1383
This one really isn't that big a departure from the last two! It's just a bit mellower. I've yet to see a convincing case made that it's deeper or more intelligent or better made than the first one. At most it's lacking some of the more brazen non-science.
post #562 of 1383
this will be the line at which Paul is driven mad!
post #563 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post

This one really isn't that big a departure from the last two! It's just a bit mellower. I've yet to see a convincing case made that it's deeper or more intelligent or better made than the first one. At most it's lacking some of the more brazen non-science.
Paul, next to LITERAL COLD FUSION BOMB, Young Einstein is a deeper, more intelligent, better made movie. Science fact.
post #564 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

this will be the line at which Paul is driven mad!

If that is my fate, so be it!

I just reckon people are in denial about this one being a different beast just because it doesn't have the old boogeyman creative team attached. I mean they even brought back the underwater space ships!
post #565 of 1383
It wasn't underwater! It just burst through a layer of water held up by gravitons and graviolis!

For sure the change in the people behind the scenes really shifts the way people may or may not choose to approach this one more favorably. But I think the sensibilities are subtly different in a lot of ways that add up.

The mellow approach actually does a lot, I think. It really FEELS different. Enough so that supposedly people who aren't that impressed with this one miss the overcompensating energy of Abrams' previous two movies.
post #566 of 1383
One aspect that's different about the interpersonal conflicts is that it's no longer boiled down to petty conflicts. Stuff like Kirk calling Spock "pointy" was atrocious. I understand why Kirk is so different in those films (daddy wasn't there for him), I just don't care for that interpretation at all, so seeing that Lin, Pegg and Jung did away with stuff like that was a step in the right direction. I'm sure under the old team that Uhura would have been more passive aggressive towards Spock over breaking up rather than the mature and understanding person she turned out in BEYOND.

Stuff like this makes a great difference for me.
post #567 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

It wasn't underwater! It just burst through a layer of water held up by gravitons and graviolis!

 

 

Gravliolis in Marinara sauce is the bomb!

post #568 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

 Stuff like Kirk calling Spock "pointy" was atrocious. 


I hated this kind of shit. I'm not a purist, but this was tantamount to a betrayal of the characters.

 

I don't think BEYOND really shows us a strong, interdependent friendship between Kirk and Spock, but at least Kirk's not treating him like the frat's newest pledge anymore.

post #569 of 1383

BEYOND doesn't show us that friendship much.  The movie just kinda plays it as a given.  I actually liked that awkward scene between the two of them in the elevator/lift because it shows that they clearly care about each others feelings because they've been friends long enough now... (unlike in Into Darkness)... but not far along into the friendship to be totally open about their personal feelings at the drop of a hat.  

 

so chibi

so tender

 

That said, I think it would've been nice to get more of that kind of thing between them before they got split apart when the ship is attacked.

post #570 of 1383

I will forgive the movie's lack of focus on Kirk and Spock, simply because it opts to focus on Bones and Spock instead. Their relationship was always interesting within classic Trek, and it's (finally) just as good here in Nu-Trek. Actually, it's one of my favorite things about this movie.

post #571 of 1383

Karl Urban's Bones has consistently been the best part of NuTrek.

 

I hope he gets even more screen time in the next one.

post #572 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
 

Karl Urban's Bones has consistently been the best part of NuTrek.

 

I hope he gets even more screen time in the next one.

 

Oh, I don't know.  Alice Eve brought some pretty good plot to the 2009 reboot.

 

post #573 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

For sure the change in the people behind the scenes really shifts the way people may or may not choose to approach this one more favorably. But I think the sensibilities are subtly different in a lot of ways that add up.

The mellow approach actually does a lot, I think. It really FEELS different. Enough so that supposedly people who aren't that impressed with this one miss the overcompensating energy of Abrams' previous two movies.

Absolutely agreed.

 

To me, the biggest change was that I could just feel that those making this movie admired the brand's legacy, whereas Abrams was just itching to get to a sci-fi property he liked.

post #574 of 1383
Why the hell did Alice Eve's performance as Carol Marcus have an accent? That bothered me to no end.
post #575 of 1383

She was probably just using her own accent and they went, "sure why not?"

post #576 of 1383
I just love that BEYOND never even tries to acknowledge anything of STID, even just explain what happened to Marcus after "joining the family" as the end of that film put it. Probably a smart move. Despite that STID is (somehow) well rated among masses, it's carrying a rep among film and Trek geeks as a bad sequel, like REVENGE OF THE FALLEN but to a lesser extent. Even Abrams himself threw it under the bus when promoting Forwakens.

And I don't even hate it that much. I'm more amused by it than offended. Though the 9/11 Truther angle does grate on me. Couldn't be a more inappropriate topic for Trek to condone, especially as the end credits has a dedication to 9/11 victims. Oof.
post #577 of 1383

Essentially ignoring STID was one of the smartest things BEYOND does, and it does a good number of smart moves.

post #578 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

 Even Abrams himself threw it under the bus when promoting Forwakens.
 

I blame the tie-in video game

post #579 of 1383
I'm even more curious to read about Orci's TREK 3 just to see how much of INTO DARKNESS carried over. I assume Marcus is among the cast. Would he try to include a thread of Kirk reflecting on himself after literally dying and coming back to life?

Apparently only a few things of that rejected draft made it onto the final film like Spock and Uhura breaking up.
post #580 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post
Apparently only a few things of that rejected draft made it onto the final film like Spock and Uhura breaking up.

 

Might explain why it's one of the worst/most unnecessary elements in the finished film.

post #581 of 1383
I actually like how it was handled. I never believed in that relationship, so seeing that done away with but on amicable terms was nice.
post #582 of 1383

I didn't think it was unnecessary.  It was used to later illustrate the conflict Spock was going through after learning of Spock Prime's passing.

 

It's just that there isn't much time given to it to be much more than that.

post #583 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
 

 

Oh, I don't know.  Alice Eve brought some pretty good plot to the 2009 reboot.

 

Look at the size of that forehead. I've always been a forehead man.

post #584 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Parker View Post
 

Look at the size of that forehead. I've always been a forehead man.

WELL THEN

 

mena-suvari-bob-haircut240do101210.jpg

post #585 of 1383

Nooj for the win!

post #586 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Parker View Post
Look at the size of that forehead. I've always been a forehead man.

 

I guess we know how Parker is voting this fall:

 

post #587 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post
 

Essentially ignoring STID was one of the smartest things BEYOND does, and it does a good number of smart moves.

 

Yeah, I guess you can go from Star Trek 09 to Star Trek Beyond and they'd flow into each other perfectly. 

post #588 of 1383
BEYOND is the sequel that should have been right after 2009. You ease newcomers with a very unorthodox Trek origins adventure, end it with them going off to warp, and then cut to BEYOND. It was very strange to have the 2009 film end with the crew going off on their mission with the captain's oath read, only to have the next film backtrack.
post #589 of 1383

To follow up on the terrible CGI comment from earlier, I audibly groaned during that brief cold-open where Kirk is trying to negotiate peace between those two warring planets. Those things looked like chibi characters with their goofy large soul-less eyes!

post #590 of 1383

That's what I told my wife when we walked out of the theater. Beyond was exactly the sequel I expected from '09 Trek. We all say that Joe Schmoe thinks pretty highly of STiD, but I don't know if I agree. I think Beyond's soft box office is the result of a shitty previous film. Beyond would have been much more successful if it followed '09, and "nuTrek" would be a franchise people really cared about. 

post #591 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Parker View Post
 

Look at the size of that forehead. I've always been a forehead man.

 

Her forehead is out of control.

 

post #592 of 1383

I know this has almost certainly been talked about by Trek fans thousands of times to death, but forgive me I'm new.

 

I love TNG right now, but it seems like every major cultural reference the show makes is old school Earth stuff. Shakespeare, Mark Twain. Where's all the pop music of the future?  Who's Daft Punk hundreds of years from now?  There's a joke about Klingon Opera now and then, but my desire to see some serious attempts at creating an art culture of the future is largely under served, making me think that this utopian future where everyone's needs are met and everyone lives in relative peace has led to a society without art, and conflict and expression and passion.

 

Anyhow long story short that's why I really liked the Sabotage as classical joke.  At least it's an attempt at a reference that carries some sense of being modern.  

post #593 of 1383

That's a common thing throughout all Trek series.  It was an attempt to not actively date the series.  I do remember a mention in a Trek novel of a non-Terran crew member taking a course on Earth's classical music period, which included Devo. 

post #594 of 1383
Trek typically avoids trying to create "futuristic" music for fear of dating the shows/movies. That's why Riker is a jazz guy, Kirk is listening to Beastie Boys, and the DS9 crew visit a holographic 50s Vegas lounge bar. Even a bar scene in THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK is really just repurposed Paramount licensed music from their library.

As far as I know, Ron Jones, who was a regular composer for TNG, was the only guy that tried to make original source music for Ten Forward scenes. An approximation of what music would sound like after hundreds of years integrating with different cultures. Rick Berman ultimately rejected the source music. I made videos taking the rejected music and inserting them into the scenes they would have been played in.

post #595 of 1383

Eeeeeek.  Now you've RUINED all ten forward scenes for me, as I've never realized a bar/lounge without music is WEIRD as fuck.

 

Just do this.  Timeless futuristic. 

 

post #596 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
 

 

Her forehead is out of control.

 

Wowzers. I'm having a crisis. 

 

Not only that, but it looks likes she has 2 spare foreheads in her shirt. I like a prepared girl.

 

I also liked Star Trek Beyond quite a bit. I think they struggled a bit at the end but they are rounding out the relationships quite well. 

post #597 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

post #598 of 1383
STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS actually had this original song specifically for a bar scene with Scotty and Keezer or what's that little guy is called. Predictably, it sounds less like a song from the future and more like a 2013 club song.

post #599 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS actually had this original song specifically for a bar scene with Scotty and Keezer or what's that little guy is called. Predictably, it sounds less like a song from the future and more like a 2013 club song.

I don't care if it's heresy, if my choice is this or no music at all I choose this.  Yes, it sounds MODERN and not futuristic, and I suppose if you're a stickler for things not being dated that might bug you.  But come on.  One of my "problems" with TNG is that everyone is very sterile and earl grey and technical in their conversation, and the humanity is too dialed back for my liking.  Where's the people dancing at clubs and getting drunk and wanting to fuck or two old friends having a drink of scotch and talking like friends?  Beyond did that kind of stuff WAY better than TNG.  Sabotage may no doubt feel dated years down the line, but the relatable understandable humanity of the crew is something I appreciate.  

 

Like TNG and TOS aren't dated in any other way.  Just fucking give it up already you silly bastards!  Sci fi music would be dated but Gorn isn't?

post #600 of 1383

No way. That song is already dated, generic and unmemorable. They picked much older references in things like TNG because those were proven to be timeless. Not a single thing about that song is timeless. Star Trek doesn't need modern, it needs something that will last.

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