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STAR TREK BEYOND Post-Release - Page 14

post #651 of 1383

Just finished the Pegg interview, which was actually better than Lin's segment. For those who wondered why Krall was so-called, it was apparently the name of the technology used by Elba's character to steal the life-force from others. Pegg implied that, as Edison lost touch with his humanity and began to forget everything but his hatred for the Federation, he adopted the alien word as his new identity. Interesting idea and it's a shame they weren't able to keep it in the script. 

 

He also addressed the end battle where Edison seemingly remembered who he was after seeing himself in the shard of glass. Apparently there's a version of the script where he helped Kirk and sacrificed himself, but the moment didn't feel earned and so they only kept the fleeting possibility of it occurring. I'm glad they changed that.

 

I'm sure the more Treky among us already know this but apparently Yorktown was the original name of the Enterprise.

 

Also, the bit where the podcasters take the piss out of the moment they asked JJ Abrams whether a certain shot in his original movie was a reference to an old Star Trek episode, and his "Y....yes?" response indicated he had no fucking idea what they were talking about, amused me greatly.  

post #652 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post
 

Also, the bit where the podcasters take the piss out of the moment they asked JJ Abrams whether a certain shot in his original movie was a reference to an old Star Trek episode, and his "Y....yes?" response indicated he had no fucking idea what they were talking about, amused me greatly.  

 

What shot?

post #653 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post
 

 

What shot?

 

Sorry, after listening to it again, it seems they were talking about Into Darkness and not the 2009 reboot. To be fair, I was running for a train whilst listening to it originally. Anyway, this is the quote:

 

"I remember when we got (JJ) in for the spoiler podcast and we said 'There's a planet and it's half open! Is that a reference to Praxis from The Undiscovered Country??' and he said (adopts high-pitched American voice) 'Suuuuuuuuure! Yeeeeeeeah! It totally was!" But he had absolutely NO idea what we were talking about."

post #654 of 1383
I'm very sure the heavy Trek references his writers and f/x artists put in those films totally went over his head.
post #655 of 1383

post #656 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

Wasn't COUNTDOWN by other writers that basically had access to the 2009 script and expanded on Nero's background themselves?

Yes, the comic script was written by other writers, but I always had the impression the film writers essentially set them on the path they ultimately embarked upon.  I may be giving them too much credit.  I don't know.  I just don't feel the hatred towards JJ Trek.  I don't even like calling it that name.  

post #657 of 1383
Freeman wanted songs from the future, here ya go. Probably more out there, as few as they are.



post #658 of 1383
This is why Star Trek can't have nice things.
post #659 of 1383
If Freeman can geek out about the countless forms of lightsaber combat then this is fair game.
post #660 of 1383

Oh yes that's my jam.  Stupid goofy future music.

 

 

Oh baby.  

post #661 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post

Sorry, after listening to it again, it seems they were talking about Into Darkness and not the 2009 reboot. To be fair, I was running for a train whilst listening to it originally. Anyway, this is the quote:

"I remember when we got (JJ) in for the spoiler podcast and we said 'There's a planet and it's half open! Is that a reference to Praxis from The Undiscovered Country??' and he said (adopts high-pitched American voice) 'Suuuuuuuuure! Yeeeeeeeah! It totally was!" But he had absolutely NO idea what we were talking about."

I just listened to this part and I think you may have heard them wrong, though I can see why.

I think they're actually making fun of (Stocks is gonna love this) Orci's supposed die-hard Trek knowledge. Not JJ's.
post #662 of 1383

Really? Well, as long as someone in the terrible trio was getting mocked for blatantly trying to hide their non-Trek knowledge, I'm happy.

post #663 of 1383
Makes sense, right? JJ has been open about how he wasn't a Trek fan. But Orci prides himself as a true fan... so it's even more delicious!

edit: just listened to that portion again. DEFINITELY mocking Orci
post #664 of 1383
Well, if there's one thing all reasonable people can agree on, it's that Bob Orci deserves mockery.
post #665 of 1383
post #666 of 1383

Gentlemen I believe we have reached a new milestone, making fun of people for pretending to be Star Trek fans is a thing now. And it's totally legit because Trek is all mainstream now. Look how far we've come!

post #667 of 1383

Yes, mocking someone for not understanding the franchise they're professionally involved with is a terrible thing. 

post #668 of 1383
It's really just at the expense of Orci. I want to make that clear.

I'm always game to mock him. It's not a conspiracy.
post #669 of 1383

Not it all, it's justice. It's even better because a lot of "Star Trek" fans around the web actually took his comments about being a fan at face value and bought into it, raged when Orci got dropped as a director on this and thought for sure that Paramount was gonna hand it over to some lame action director.

If only the box off for Beyond was a lot better though. :(

post #670 of 1383

so Beyond was pretty fun and ok and shit!

 

like, I really enjoyed myself for the most part. given his background you'd think Lin would have executed the combat stuff with a little more precision and clarity, but he's very much of the school of filmmaking where basically everything is emphasized so in the end nothing really is and the editing and hand-to-hand stuff here was just kind of poor--but there was a lot of energy and a lot of good ideas for action twists and beats and the film looked like it cost about a bajillion dollars to make. I mean, it's kind of amazing that this and Suicide Squad cost about the same amount, this has SOOOOOOOOO much more scope and money up on the screen. also, it's amazing they spent 180 mil making a Star Trek movie in 2016. it's also amazing in a not-so-good way that they find ways to make non-stop action fest movies from a show that had very, very little action in it. I am tired of these types of bad guys and conflicts in the modern blockbuster and I really hope one more Star Trek gets made that ain't about that shit, because this cast is pretty fun to watch and there is some cool design stuff happening in these movies (though Krall's design was pretty eh) and there were multiple times that I found the film refreshing, it was always looking for some sort of cerebral twist on its action-palooza to try to make it more Star Trek-y, and while that is ultimately misguided, it did make me more involved in what was going on. When the editing would actually let me follow what was going on (good God, that action scene at night on the crashed saucer is a muddle of dimly lit shots where you are pretty sure something cool is happening if you could just see it better and it would stop cutting at weird times).

 

dramatically, it kind of worked, too. it's kind of undermined by the film trying to throw SO much action at you all the time (did someone say there isn't actually that much action in this? that is absolutely crazy talk. it had action bits almost every other scene, the protracted Enterprise destruction goes on for like ten, fifteen minutes [but is thankfully awesome for most of those minutes], I think the entire third act is big, loud action). some of the thematic stuff that is just focused on the crew works okay, the harder-edged thematic stuff is built into the conflict with Krall and the ideological divide there and, unfortunately, that is really hampered by Krall being a confused mess of a character that doesn't quite make sense, like all nu-Trek villains.

 

but can I just say that despite it's ridiculous, contrived setup and despite it being yet another big, bold, loud moment in a movie filled with them... that "Sabotage" sequence was a thing of joy. worked like gangbusters in my packed theater. my favorite fusion of image and sound in an action setpiece since Fury Road. never has technobabble resulted in a solution so viscerally satisfying.

post #671 of 1383
I'm going to give Lin the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the lackluster action in most of this movie based on the fact that this movie had an insanely short pre-production schedule for a film of its size.
post #672 of 1383

I'm starting to worry these results are so bad they are going to think another film isn't worth it even if they can make it for the 80-100 million range. 

post #673 of 1383
That is in fact a pretty great setup. But if you're talking the Shat for elderly Kirk, I doubt he'd agree to it. No way Shatner wants his swan song as Kirk in a major motion picture to be Evil Kirk getting some commupence at the end.
post #674 of 1383
Paramount needs realistic expectations and a better understanding of their brand film series if they want to make it something profitable. Otherwise they'll just sit on it like they currently do with GI Joe and Jack Ryan.
post #675 of 1383

Paramount also doesn't have much in the way of (fairly) reliable franchises at this point.  TRANSFORMERS is on a downward drift domestically (I expect that to continue next year), and what else have they really got?  MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE is certainly still viable.  TMNT?  Feels like the second one kind of killed that franchise.  Is there something big I'm missing?

 

I think there will still be a place for STAR TREK films in the Paramount lineup, because it's a brand with bigtime name recognition and they have very little else to work with.  If a fourth film with this cast can be made for a price ($120 - $130m), I think we'll still see it.  Setting a release date in spring (March/April) or early October (the GRAVITY/MARTIAN slot) could be advantageous as well; don't make TREK face the heavy summer competition.

post #676 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post
 

Just finished the Pegg interview, which was actually better than Lin's segment. For those who wondered why Krall was so-called, it was apparently the name of the technology used by Elba's character to steal the life-force from others. Pegg implied that, as Edison lost touch with his humanity and began to forget everything but his hatred for the Federation, he adopted the alien word as his new identity. Interesting idea and it's a shame they weren't able to keep it in the script. 

 

He also addressed the end battle where Edison seemingly remembered who he was after seeing himself in the shard of glass. Apparently there's a version of the script where he helped Kirk and sacrificed himself, but the moment didn't feel earned and so they only kept the fleeting possibility of it occurring. I'm glad they changed that.

 

They really hindered themselves by making the Krall a reveal-type character. They could have used virtually the same amount of screen time for Krall to build his story and identity from the get-go and then maybe could have done something more interesting with the end resolution or at least displayed more internal tension for Krall at the end, as opposed to a shot of Krall seeing his reflection and you're just like, "what's that all about?"

 

Then shave some minutes off the overloaded action of the third act to do some world-building for what the heck is going on with Krall's base and how all that came together and why these legions of aliens are serving him, etc. Because so much of all that and Krall feels so sketchy, even though they actually do have Krall do a number of exposition dumps.

post #677 of 1383
Actually the "legions of aliens" serving him were just drones. Took a second viewing to figure that out. There were just three living people on Krall's team: Edison (Krall) and the two other Franklin survivors (now old and alien-like). Everyone (everything) else was a drone.
post #678 of 1383

That only raises further questions for me!

post #679 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post

Paramount also doesn't have much in the way of (fairly) reliable franchises at this point.  TRANSFORMERS is on a downward drift domestically (I expect that to continue next year), and what else have they really got?  MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE is certainly still viable.  TMNT?  Feels like the second one kind of killed that franchise.  Is there something big I'm missing?

I think there will still be a place for STAR TREK films in the Paramount lineup, because it's a brand with bigtime name recognition and they have very little else to work with.  If a fourth film with this cast can be made for a price ($120 - $130m), I think we'll still see it.  Setting a release date in spring (March/April) or early October (the GRAVITY/MARTIAN slot) could be advantageous as well; don't make TREK face the heavy summer competition.

I feel "Beyond" is Star Trek's "License To Kill" moment, if you follow the analogy. In other words, it's a great movie that deserved a more strategic opening weekend, as well as a better marketing campaign.
post #680 of 1383
That's what I like about this film, McNooj. (And I suspect what many others don't like.) It's a film that causes us to ask questions. There's a lot of backstory that isn't presented in the movie, and for me at least it's triggered my imagination.
post #681 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlenomad View Post

That's what I like about this film, McNooj. (And I suspect what many others don't like.) It's a film that causes us to ask questions. There's a lot of backstory that isn't presented in the movie, and for me at least it's triggered my imagination.

 

The most "Trek" moment of this film, for me, was when they first leave the base to head off to parts unknown.  We've had some good character building, some soul-searching, you wonder what's going to happen with these guys, and then they head off towards a strange nebula with a mysterious problem.  And then ... incoherent swarm battle happens. 


Edited by Overlord - 8/19/16 at 10:15pm
post #682 of 1383

wait, so all the green glowy mask dudes were drones?

 

the film was not clear about that AT ALL. I thought Krall was trapping aliens on his planet and forcing them to serve him?

post #683 of 1383
Quote:

Originally Posted by wasp View Post

 

the film was not clear about that AT ALL. I thought Krall was trapping aliens on his planet and forcing them to serve him?

 

I thought the same. Never picked up that they were drones.

post #684 of 1383
Them being mere drones actually makes more sense for Krall given his whole approach.
post #685 of 1383

it does make more sense.

 

I have no idea how he built the things, but it does make more sense!

post #686 of 1383
If they're drones, he probably just found them at some point. Maybe they were with the abandoned alien life expansion tech, maybe the drones were something he lifted from some other victim. He had a lot of time to get his operation together.
post #687 of 1383
He mentions in one of the recordings that they found remains of a civilization that included advanced mining equipment. And I believe it's Jayla that says they are drones.

It was pretty obvious to me Edison found the drones and learned how to control them for his purposes.
post #688 of 1383

I didn't catch on to that until the second viewing, second viewing makes it clear that the girl that goes to the station was lying the whole time to get the Federation to come to the planet, she wasn't doing it so she could be released, she's one of the last remaining members of the original Franklin crew, basically all but a few had survived and did so because Edison found the technology that turned him into Krall, along with everything else. The exposition goes by quick but it's really not complicated.


Edited by Itsnotatumor - 8/19/16 at 12:34pm
post #689 of 1383

What I've learned is that in the 09 Trekverse, Mining is both the most technologically advanced field, but also the one most prone to generate Planet scale menaces.

post #690 of 1383

Itsnotatumor is doing a good job explaining.  Edison (Krall) and his two remaining crewmembers found a drone workforce and advanced mining equipment.  He didn't build them--at least not from scratch.  He may have enhanced them somewhat.  But the heavy R&D was already done.  

post #691 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlenomad View Post


I feel "Beyond" is Star Trek's "License To Kill" moment, if you follow the analogy. In other words, it's a great movie that deserved a more strategic opening weekend, as well as a better marketing campaign.

Pardon me for Americanizing "Licence To Kill."  

post #692 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsnotatumor View Post

I didn't catch on to that until the second viewing, second viewing makes it clear that the girl that goes to the station was lying the whole time to get the Federation to come to the planet, she wasn't doing it so she could be released, she's one of the last remaining members of the original Franklin crew, basically all but a few had survived and did so because Edison found the technology that turned him into Krall, along with everything else. The exposition goes by quick but it's really not complicated.

Interesting. I never got that she's one of the remaining crew. She and that other henchmen never at any point speak English to indicate that they may be survivors of the Franklin. If she's supposed to be, it would have been a nice moment where she breaks character in the Enterprise saucer wreckage by speaking English.

Looking at memory alpha, in getting more info on these henchmen than the film let on. I actually thought Krall was the only survivor.
post #693 of 1383

At the end, when Kirk and the admiral are "closing the file" on the Franklin, there are pictures of crewmembers that show up on the screen and then slowly fade to the back.  The final three are the girl, the right hand man, and Edison (Krall).  

post #694 of 1383

Well, they don't slowly fade.  They quickly fade!  Just like the Franklin/Edison backstory is presented quickly.  It's there, but it's not hanging around long!

post #695 of 1383

Right, all of that is kind of blink and you'll miss it. But it's definitely all there and there's a couple moments before that give that away. Kirk calls out the girl and she gives her sob story and he lets her live, but later on she turns on them solidifying that she's actually part of Krall's crew and is searching for the artifact. Also later on when they're watching Edison's logs he states that there are few survivors left of his crew.

 

I think the most confusing thing is regarding the alien language, Krall inexplicably starts to speak broken English again and although it's not outright stated it is insinuated that this has something to do with absorbing the life force of a few humans. The girl has used the technology before to absorb the life force of alien captives but never uses it in the film.

 

There's an article that sums is all up here.

post #696 of 1383
It's funny how while undercooked in the final film, we at least got a villain that makes more sense on paper than Nero or nuKhan. Maybe it's because Krall's character is so undercooked that I can't analyze it and think "this is fucking stupid" the same way I can with the last two villains (three if you wanna count Shinzon especially, Sorry Saxon).

Oh yeah, INTO DARKNESS was on TV today. I caught a bit of it. Honestly, it plays great as unintentional comedy. Orci is going full on grim mode with his 9/11 truther parable and I just laugh.
post #697 of 1383
How does it make more sense on paper? Just like Nero, he's a guy who decides an unfortunate accident was some deliberate and punishable plot by Starfleet, despite there being no particular reason to think that.
post #698 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post

How does it make more sense on paper? Just like Nero, he's a guy who decides an unfortunate accident was some deliberate and punishable plot by Starfleet, despite there being no particular reason to think that.

I'm not sure where that comes from. What I got was that Edison was disgruntled and felt abandoned by Starfleet after a long period of time, which gestated over a hundred years and absorbed aliens into Krall. It's simplistic, but not batshit nonsense like Nero's "I LOST MY HOME AND BLAME SPOCK FOR TRYING TO SAVE IT!"
post #699 of 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

What I got was that Edison was disgruntled and felt abandoned by Starfleet after a long period of time, which gestated over a hundred years and absorbed aliens into Krall.

"Makes more sense on paper", eh...
post #700 of 1383

It makes sense in the film if people are paying enough attention. Dude was fucking crazzzzzzy.

I mean think about it, if you were some military commander dude in the future, fighting wars against weird aliens and then the wars ended and they gave you a spaceship to go exploring in despite the fact you were probably suffering from PTSD and unfit for command, and then your ship was stranded and most of your crew died on a hostile alien planet, and you could only survive by using the alien technology left behind to maroon other aliens there and suck out their life force, what would you do?


Edited by Itsnotatumor - 8/20/16 at 2:56am
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