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Trumpocalypse Now - Page 585

post #29201 of 32489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post

In the last 8 elections, the 2nd-highest # for either party was 78 for the Republicans in 2010... a year in which they had a landslide victory to take over the House. For 2018, the Democrats have 209. Their average in the last 7 elections was 42. 

Enthusiasm to challenge and unseat Republican Congressman is by far the highest that it has been in recent history.

It's a good sign.

I'm just being a goof, Farsight.
post #29202 of 32489
I never understood why there are so many pop culture depictions of the confederacy that romanticizes it and places the main character/s in roles of a hero that unashamedly supports the conference and therefore, depending on the time period, either a character that wants to make sure a whole race of people stay enslaved or wishes for slavery's return.

This is not unique to the Dukes of Hazard, and Gone with the Wind. Hell, one of the most influential films ever realeased was Birth of a Nation, and then around ten years later Buster Keaton released The General which is arguably his best film and is about a train engineer that really wants to join the confederate army.
post #29203 of 32489
It's a potent mixture of audiences' tendency to root for the underdog, the sense of "heritage" it acquired in the South, and, um, probably some racism.

(Anyway, of those examples, only Dukes even dates from a period where it was socially awkward to be openly racist in the US.)
post #29204 of 32489
Yeah, not to trivialize be issue, but three examples across the breadth of all of pop culture is not really "so many". And the Dukes Of Hazzard were not exactly idealogues fighting against the Union (I don't think, I haven't really seen the show). And Birth Of A Nation is still famous today because its racial politics are so stupefying to modern audiences. It's not like Sony is trying to spin a starightforward remake into an expanded racist universe.

I'm sure there are scores of people who could speak more knowledgeably than me about the matter, but I've never had the feeling that it was flooded with positive depictions of the South period, much less the Confederacy specifically.
post #29205 of 32489

One day, you're signing an executive order to eliminate national monuments, and the next you're lamenting the loss of Confederate monuments.

post #29206 of 32489

I think this might have gotten lost in the shuffle of Orange Soda Hitler being terrible as usual:

 

Quote:
 WikiLeaks rejected documents on Russia during 2016 election: report
 

 

 

Not that we weren't suspicious of Assange before now. Of course Wikileaks is in damage control mode over this.

post #29207 of 32489
I find it humorous that a lot of the same people like Dukes think Archie Bunker was the voice of reason in All in the Family.

Pretty much everyone not me or my Dad in my own family is included in that list.
post #29208 of 32489

Susan Bro, Heather Heyer's mother, spoke on Trump's words:

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mother-charlottesville-victim-heather-heyer-says-she-s-received-death-n793691

 

Quote:

A day after burying her daughter, the mother of a woman killed during Saturday’s white nationalist rally in Charlottesville scoffed at President Donald Trump’s claim that violence on “both sides” lead to her daughter’s death.

 

Susan Bro said Thursday that any fights between marching racists and counter-protesters were “irrelevant” because her daughter, Heather Heyer, was simply peacefully protesting when she was brutally mowed down.

 

"Whether there was violence on both sides or not is irrelevant," Bro told MSNBC's Katy Tur. "The guy mowed my daughter down and, sorry, that’s not excusable." 

 

The White House has called, but she's busy:

 

Quote:

In the exclusive interview, Bro said that the White House has reached out to her several times since her daughter’s death, but that she hasn’t had a chance to speak to President Trump.

 

“I saw that his office had called about three times,” she said. “It feels awful, but I just haven’t had time to talk to the president.” 

post #29209 of 32489
She should tell the White House to fuck off and lose her number..
post #29210 of 32489

What could he possibly have to say worth hearing?  Even if he hadn't beaked off about being a Nazi sympathizer, Normal buffoon Trump wouldn't have anything useful to say.

post #29211 of 32489
"I like people who don't get hit by cars.."
post #29212 of 32489

Helena, Montana will remove a Confederate memorial:

 

http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/347038-helena-to-remove-confederate-memorial-without-city-council-vote

 

Montana, a state that didn't exist until after the Civil War, has a Confederate memorial.

post #29213 of 32489

Hey, you know which Trump council hasn't seen one resignation?  The evangelical one.

 

Nice to see the corporate world showing more morality.

 

And, of course, the three charities that dropped Mar-a-Lago today have shown more morality as well.

post #29214 of 32489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post

Hey, you know which Trump council hasn't seen one resignation?  The evangelical one.
It really has gotten kind of lost in all the chaos, but the saga of the Trump campaign and administration really has exposed the absolute moral bankruptcy of the American Evangelical establishment. I mean, for God's sake, these are the people who tried their damnedest to get Clinton thrown out for his sleazy behavior - there really couldn't be any clearer indication of the double standard that comes into play for someone they see as a potential political ally. Hopefully when the dust has settled and people start assessing the fallout, there's a major reckoning for these two-faced weasels.
post #29215 of 32489
Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post

It really has gotten kind of lost in all the chaos, but the saga of the Trump campaign and administration really has exposed the absolute moral bankruptcy of the American Evangelical establishment. I mean, for God's sake, these are the people who tried their damnedest to get Clinton thrown out for his sleazy behavior - there really couldn't be any clearer indication of the double standard that comes into play for someone they see as a potential political ally. Hopefully when the dust has settled and people start assessing the fallout, there's a major reckoning for these two-faced weasels.

Of all the reckonings I hope to come from this whole fiasco, that is the last one I'd actually expect to see. At best they are alienating a generation of potential faithful with the transparent hypocrisy, but even that would be a quiet bleed rather than any dramatic public repudiation.
post #29216 of 32489

Racists everywhere can cry themselves to sleep on their two-holed white pillowcases...

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/16/us/confederate-monuments-removed.html

 

(That's a map and descriptions for all recent confederate monument removals / proposed removals)

 

A good palette cleanser.

post #29217 of 32489
I had no idea that there were this many Confederate statues. I thought history was written by the victors.
post #29218 of 32489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
Montana, a state that didn't exist until after the Civil War, has a Confederate memorial.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_in_the_American_Civil_War

 

Less of a role than, say, Arizona, but it's not shocking.

post #29219 of 32489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
 

Three galas at Mar-a-Lago cancelled in one day now:

 

https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/status/898326660172234752

 

This time, it was the Israeli Red Cross.


I'm not picking on you I promise! I wonder why so many of these charities, people and companies are choosing to cancel events now. I mean, cool, but what took so long? Why did some of them even book there to begin with?


Edited by wd40 - 8/17/17 at 7:04pm
post #29220 of 32489
It is kind of morbidly funny how that march to ostensibly protect confederate monuments had brought so much more attention and seemingly hastened their removal from so many more places. It's Trump's presidency writ wide - he puffs up his chest and makes a big deal about something that should be an easy win, but the attention and association he brings to it turns wine into water. Nothing but his personal ineptitude and toxicity could have saved Obamacare from a GOP congress. Democrats are spared from having to make concessions on infrastructure as long as it includes a big dumb wall. Somehow military brass who would probably welcome a return to Don't Ask, Don't Tell are publicly supporting trans troops. Even war hawks are saying we should be careful with North Korea, because it's abundantly clear the POTUS shouldn't be trusted with a ball of string.

It's the reverse Midas Touch. Everything he touches turns to shit. Which gives all of us more shit on our plates, but is undeniably hilarious to watch him fail to understand what is happening:
post #29221 of 32489
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd40 View Post


I'm not picking on you I promise! I wonder so many of these charities, people and companies are choosing to cancel events now. I mean, cool, but what took so long? Why did some of them even book there to begin with?

If I'm fundraising, the type of guy who would pay an absurd premium to golf at Mr. Gold Toilet Seat's club is exactly who is be trying to catch drunk with their checkbook open.
post #29222 of 32489

Not surprised in the slightest the orange ballbag is going ahead with his "All Hail Glorious Leader" rally next week in Phoenix. What an absolute asshole.

 

If he announces that pardon for that racist dogpile ex-sheriff....how much more will it take for the GOP to finally do something?

post #29223 of 32489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

I had no idea that there were this many Confederate statues. I thought history was written by the victors.

 

Confederate statues are like the fan-fiction of history.

post #29224 of 32489
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post


It really has gotten kind of lost in all the chaos, but the saga of the Trump campaign and administration really has exposed the absolute moral bankruptcy of the American Evangelical establishment. I mean, for God's sake, these are the people who tried their damnedest to get Clinton thrown out for his sleazy behavior - there really couldn't be any clearer indication of the double standard that comes into play for someone they see as a potential political ally. Hopefully when the dust has settled and people start assessing the fallout, there's a major reckoning for these two-faced weasels.

 

It was a straight up quid pro quo: Trump got a list of Supreme Court, and lower court potential nominees from the Heritage Foundation, and promised that he'd appoint those people. Then he did it, both with the Supreme Court vacancy he got upon coming into office, and the lower courts too. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post


Of all the reckonings I hope to come from this whole fiasco, that is the last one I'd actually expect to see. At best they are alienating a generation of potential faithful with the transparent hypocrisy, but even that would be a quiet bleed rather than any dramatic public repudiation.

 

That "Quiet Bleed" has been going on for decades in the US. It's a shame, because at the same time there's a tremendous hunger for the solace and guidelines religion can offer when not in the hands of charlatans. 

post #29225 of 32489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

You know, we joke about The Dukes of Hazzard, but that show is nearly neck and neck with Gone with the Wind in the "Aw shucks, wasn't the Old South so charming?" sweepstakes. Made a generation think the Confederate flag and "Dixie" were cool.

 

 

One of the few good bits from the movie was when they were driving the General Lee into Atlanta and everyone in the traffic jam was cussing them out and calling them assholes. 

post #29226 of 32489

Yeah, that was really great. Honestly that's the only thing I remember from that movie besides the college sorority where most of the girls were naked. 

post #29227 of 32489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
 And the Dukes Of Hazzard were not exactly idealogues fighting against the Union (I don't think, I haven't really seen the show). 

 

 

Dukes isn't all that egregious. It's about a family of moonshiners hoodwinking the corrupt local law enforcement (all of whom happen to be white). The only black character I can recall is there was a hardass, non-corrupt sheriff in the next county over they'd get in a car chase with once per season or so. 

 

Aside from the moonshine angle, it could've been set in most any rural US area and had a red white and blue "General Grant" car. 

post #29228 of 32489

Let's just say that while race relations in the South and America improved quite a bit in the 80's and 90's, they were far from "woke".   As someone who grew up in the Louisiana, the Confederate Flag was seen by many white people as a symbol of rebellion and being an outlaw.   It would make sense in that setting that a show like the Duke Boys of The Dukes of Hazard could drive around in a car called the General Lee with a Confederate flag on it and not be racist.  It was more like redneck pride or something.   Like I said, the 80's were more progressive but sure as hell wasn't woke.

post #29229 of 32489

The Confederate Flag is racist.

 

Period.

 

It may have accumulated additional associations but it is and always has been a symbol of racial oppression.

post #29230 of 32489

Not arguing that at all.   What I'm saying is that its use on The Dukes of Hazard was a result of not being racially aware.  

post #29231 of 32489

 What people think of as the Confederate Flag was the flag of The Army of North Virginia. The flag of the CSA went though changes but the last one was the stars and bars in the corner while the rest was white to symbolize the superiority of the white man. So yes the flag of the CSA was racist symbol of white power. End of discussion.

 

Rolling Stone's Matt Taibbi on why Bannon is so dangerous.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-fire-steve-bannon-w498354

 

One of Trump's golf courses has a monument to a Civil War battle that never happened.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/trumps-golf-course-plaque-honors-fake-civil-war-battle-w498383 

post #29232 of 32489

Time for some levity.

post #29233 of 32489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

I had no idea that there were this many Confederate statues. I thought history was written by the victors.

 

I read that during the Reconstruction, Andrew Johnson tried to appease the South by pardoning their generals and let them off pretty much Scott free. Perhaps in those ensuing years, the Southern States were allowed to essentially rewrote their own history and made their Confederate generals the heroes instead of war criminals and traitors, so they could feel good about themselves even though they had lost the Civil War. Erecting statues of their heroes like Robert E. Lee gave them that illusion of a false victory. 

post #29234 of 32489

I've said it before, but the optimist in me thinks there are two types of people in America: those who know what Trump is and those who are going to find out. This week, a lot of people found out. Took them fucking long enough.

post #29235 of 32489
"This racist whose racist views aligned with my own racism has said some racist things this week. I had no idea that he out-racist'd even me! Oh, well..."
post #29236 of 32489
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd40 View Post
 


I'm not picking on you I promise! I wonder why so many of these charities, people and companies are choosing to cancel events now. I mean, cool, but what took so long? Why did some of them even book there to begin with?

 

We're all just posting and learning around here.  No worries. :)

post #29237 of 32489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anger Management View Post
 

 

I read that during the Reconstruction, Andrew Johnson tried to appease the South by pardoning their generals and let them off pretty much Scott free. Perhaps in those ensuing years, the Southern States were allowed to essentially rewrote their own history and made their Confederate generals the heroes instead of war criminals and traitors, so they could feel good about themselves even though they had lost the Civil War. Erecting statues of their heroes like Robert E. Lee gave them that illusion of a false victory. 

That's only partially it. It had much more to do with nostalgia and, much more importantly White Supremacy. The first Confederate statues didn't go up until 60-70 years after the Civil War, it was during the height of Jim Crow segregation. This was Southerners way of telling Blacks that Whites were in control, Blacks were inferior, and lest they forget they were once slaves, and that was a "Golden Age" that Southerns then, and Southerners now, would like to return to. 

post #29238 of 32489

Jon Stewart showed up to Dave Chappelle's show tonight, and he had some words about Charlottesville and Trump:

 

https://twitter.com/SopanDeb/status/898401899359068160

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/SopanDeb/status/898404892305272833

 

 

post #29239 of 32489

Obamas tweet of condolence to Barcelona has 1M likes.  Trump's has 175K.

 

Although to anyone of any sense this means nothing, to Trump it will be fucking KILLING him.

 

There's been a few suggestions that he tweets his desire to resign, since that will smash all twitter like records.

 

Dumb fuck is probably vain enough to do it.

post #29240 of 32489

Looking forward to Stewart's HBO comedy special big time now. That should be great.

post #29241 of 32489

I'm a little concerned with the rhetoric regarding the Antifa having clean hands here. Obviously, they did, but assuming there's more violence at the upcoming Fascist demonstrations, at some point a Far Left protester is going to hurt someone. That's just how extremists do. Hell, I'm sure the scum fucks leading the charge would have far preferred that other scum fuck didn't kill anyone with his car, because then they could have muddied the rhetorical waters more efficiently. Maybe the only thing Trump has done correctly in his whole goddamned presidency was not politicizing that softball game attack earlier this year. If that happened now, you can be sure we'd be having speeches and tweets about the immediate threat the Radical Left poses to the country, and it would get some shitty play. Most effectively in equivocating, as in BOTH SIDES are guilty, yadda yadda.

 

I much more pleased with the other take getting a lot of play, which is that one side is simply fucking Nazis. There's a moral imperative to resisting Nazis, and one it seems the vast majority of the country does agree with. If Trump wants to say there were plenty of Fine People on the tiki torches/Jews Will Not Replace Us side, make him explain the philosophical difference. I'm guessing it'll be some vague bullshit about respecting historical monuments, and that is indeed some weak sauce bullshit, which anyone but the zealots can easily see through. At least I hope.

post #29242 of 32489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post
 

I'm a little concerned with the rhetoric regarding the Antifa having clean hands here. Obviously, they did, but assuming there's more violence at the upcoming Fascist demonstrations, at some point a Far Left protester is going to hurt someone. That's just how extremists do. Hell, I'm sure the scum fucks leading the charge would have far preferred that other scum fuck didn't kill anyone with his car, because then they could have muddied the rhetorical waters more efficiently. Maybe the only thing Trump has done correctly in his whole goddamned presidency was not politicizing that softball game attack earlier this year. If that happened now, you can be sure we'd be having speeches and tweets about the immediate threat the Radical Left poses to the country, and it would get some shitty play. Most effectively in equivocating, as in BOTH SIDES are guilty, yadda yadda.

 

I much more pleased with the other take getting a lot of play, which is that one side is simply fucking Nazis. There's a moral imperative to resisting Nazis, and one it seems the vast majority of the country does agree with. If Trump wants to say there were plenty of Fine People on the tiki torches/Jews Will Not Replace Us side, make him explain the philosophical difference. I'm guessing it'll be some vague bullshit about respecting historical monuments, and that is indeed some weak sauce bullshit, which anyone but the zealots can easily see through. At least I hope.

Funny I came here to post almost exactly this after watching some videos of Antifa people at the rally.  It does give me pause that the media I generally follow largely ignores those people.  I think all of this would have been easily avoided if Trump gave a more eloquent speech that deeply condemned and disowned fucking Nazis and everything they stand for morally, and the separately called out Antifas sometimes violent counter protests as an inappropriate and unacceptable response to hatred.  A clear moral stance against violence and no moral equivalencies made between Nazis and not Nazis.

post #29243 of 32489

Violent counter-protests are not an inappropriate and unacceptable response to Nazis - viz. Cable Street which put ethno-fascism back in its box in Britain for generations. Showing that you are prepared to physically resist organised bigotry when it is putting on a show of strength is essential. 

 

We should argue the question of provocative left wing violence when it happens other than in response to Nazis. 

post #29244 of 32489
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhp1608 View Post
 

We should argue the question of provocative left wing violence when it happens other than in response to Nazis. 

 

Or perhaps when it's actually violent. Only one group was responsible for a terrorist attack that would make ISIS proud.

 

Also, the CEO of FOX donated $1 million to the ADL, and had this to say:

 

Quote:
 

But what we watched this last week in Charlottesville and the reaction to it by the President of the United States concern all of us as Americans and free people.

 

These events remind us all why vigilance against hate and bigotry is an eternal obligation — a necessary discipline for the preservation of our way of life and our ideals. The presence of hate in our society was appallingly laid bare as we watched swastikas brandished on the streets of Charlottesville and acts of brutal terrorism and violence perpetrated by a racist mob. I can’t even believe I have to write this: standing up to Nazis is essential; there are no good Nazis. Or Klansmen, or terrorists. Democrats, Republicans, and others must all agree on this, and it compromises nothing for them to do so.

 

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/james-murdoch-trump-charlottesville-memo-1202532221/

post #29245 of 32489

An FB-friend (who I know frequents 4chan) posted "who are we supposed to punch now" after the Barcelona terrorist attack. One response was pretty good: "whoever starts talking about 'both sides'".

post #29246 of 32489
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhp1608 View Post
 

Violent counter-protests are not an inappropriate and unacceptable response to Nazis - viz. Cable Street which put ethno-fascism back in its box in Britain for generations. Showing that you are prepared to physically resist organised bigotry when it is putting on a show of strength is essential. 

 

We should argue the question of provocative left wing violence when it happens other than in response to Nazis. 

I'm sorry but I straight up disagree.  If you instigate violence against these people you're in the wrong.  Responding to non violence with violence is simply not OK. As vile and low as these worms are they have rights like anyone else.

post #29247 of 32489

The very existence of a Nazi is an implied threat.

 

Let's say, for instance, I was just a proud white guy. Somehow, it could be possible, I'm 100% benevolent in my pride. I love all races, I just really appreciate being white. You know, being a bad dancer and driving like doo doo doo doo doo.

 

Putting aside the fact that creating a platform of white pride is completely unnecessary because 99% of American media celebrates being white (and male and straight and cis), I would never, ever call myself a Nazi/KKK/White Supremacist/Nationalist. I would come up with a new name and ideology. 

 

Like Cool White Guy Inc. or something.

post #29248 of 32489

Yeah, we're not there yet. Not close. Nazis though they may be, there's an enormous difference between these chodes in dockers and the literal SS.

 

But my larger point is that it's pretty much inevitable, with the level of polarization fomenting right now. Is it impossible to imagine some crazy person on the Left plowing their car into a crowd of Nazis? I understand the temptation. And then what? At the very least, Trump can correctly say there's blame on both sides.

 

No, what I think should happen is the Alt Right gets their platform. Let them explain why they're not all racists. I guarantee you it's going to be some pretty racist shit. Their ideology is obviously indefensible, and the chuckleheads we've seen talking so far are proving that with every shitty youtube clip you see.

post #29249 of 32489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post
 

Yeah, we're not there yet. Not close. Nazis though they may be, there's an enormous difference between these chodes in dockers and the literal SS.

 

But my larger point is that it's pretty much inevitable, with the level of polarization fomenting right now. Is it impossible to imagine some crazy person on the Left plowing their car into a crowd of Nazis? I understand the temptation. And then what? At the very least, Trump can correctly say there's blame on both sides.

 

No, what I think should happen is the Alt Right gets their platform. Let them explain why they're not all racists. I guarantee you it's going to be some pretty racist shit. Their ideology is obviously indefensible, and the chuckleheads we've seen talking so far are proving that with every shitty youtube clip you see.

There's no difference because that's what they want. Their existence is an implied threat.

 

This isn't the difference between preferring chocolate ice cream over vanilla. Their philosophy is aspiring toward genocide.

 

Punch.All.Nazis.

post #29250 of 32489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post
 

 

Or perhaps when it's actually violent. Only one group was responsible for a terrorist attack that would make ISIS proud.

 

Also, the CEO of FOX donated $1 million to the ADL, and had this to say:

 

 

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/james-murdoch-trump-charlottesville-memo-1202532221/

Yes, I should have been clearer on that first point.

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