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Trumpocalypse Now - Page 792

post #39551 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
 

"Sure, the Republican Party endorsed a guy who sexually assaulted a 14-year old. But I'm not gonna bring it up."

 

 

But that's the thing; If they're ok with supporting a fucking pedophile. Literally NOTHING you say is gonna shame them cause they have no fucking shame. All that attacking them accomplishes is giving them a victim complex to play off. "See how those libruls attack us? We need to band together!" 

 

How about spending that energy overcoming voter apathy with the silent majority and getting people to fucking vote? 

post #39552 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmacq1 View Post

I just wonder how long it'll be before Trump has to either choose between suffering consequences for his actions and incompetence, or throwing his own flesh and blood under the bus.

I will not be surprised if, before it's all said and done, Trump is tweeting that his traitorous, mercenary children took advantage of a kindly elder, who bigly-definitely had no idea about all this conspiracy with governments overseas going on in his own house.
post #39553 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dent6084 View Post



Yeah, I'd say there's a difference between "Deplorable" and "Pedophile".

Or, hell, just pull an LBJ on the elected officials specifically: "Hey, Mitch, when'd you stop fucking kids? Ted, how about you? When did you stop fucking kids, Tom Cotton?"

I approve this approach.
post #39554 of 40281

At some point Trump say "I won, and I made money doing it" and THEN we'll know he knows it's over.

post #39555 of 40281
Quote:
 How about spending that energy overcoming voter apathy with the silent majority and getting people to fucking vote? 

ALL of this. Stop trying to appeal to scumbags and start appealing to the oblivious, lazy fucks. (We should probably hire a PR guy to word it better, however)

post #39556 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename View Post
 

 

But that's the thing; If they're ok with supporting a fucking pedophile. Literally NOTHING you say is gonna shame them cause they have no fucking shame. All that attacking them accomplishes is giving them a victim complex to play off. "See how those libruls attack us? We need to band together!" 

 

How about spending that energy overcoming voter apathy with the silent majority and getting people to fucking vote? 

 

Who says they're actually ok with it? You seem to think its this binary thing. Over Thanksgiving, some tried to avoid the topic, others expressed some degree of regret. Now they got Roy Moore on the table, how do they respond to that?

Or sure, I can just go hassle strangers and tell them to get off their ass and go fucking vote. 

post #39557 of 40281

Do you guys know anyone who's oblivious to politics in 2017?

 

I think those are the folks who just quietly voted for Trump. That was the general truth in my part of the country, anyway.

post #39558 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post

You say that like it hasn't already come up.

And the response has been, "Youre in a burning house. You have time to enter one room and save whats in it. In one room is a two year old. In the other room is one of those Jurassic Park vials with 10,000 embryos. WHO YOU GOT? Now stop bullshitting me about slaughtering babies, because I am not for that."


Splutter sputter etc.

And yes. We are trying to accomplish drama with this. 

I WISH that was the response. Democrats don't respond like that, Zhukov. If they did, they'd win more.
post #39559 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
 

Tying it to NAMBLA is dumb.

 

Ignoring it is dumber.


OK, so once again:  "Yeah, if Moore did that stuff it's terrible, but <Insert GOP Candidate(s) from state your Republican relative is from, presuming it's not Alabama, here> didn't do those things, and I think abortion is murder, and no, not even your witty 10,000 embryos anecdote is going to change my mind, as opposed to just making me think you're exactly the kind of smug piece of shit the conservative media's been telling me you liberals all are for decades now."

 

Where is your "winning strategy" here?  What exactly are you winning beyond an opportunity to pat yourself on the back?

 

An angry voter base is a motivated voter base.  All this is going to do is make them angry.

 

The GOP has given us plenty of ammunition to attack them on policy.  Attack them on policy.  Attacking them on the inappropriate behavior of individuals is not going to change anything, and we've got our own individuals they can throw right back in our face.

post #39560 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post

You say that like it hasn't already come up.

And the response has been, "Youre in a burning house. You have time to enter one room and save whats in it. In one room is a two year old. In the other room is one of those Jurassic Park vials with 10,000 embryos. WHO YOU GOT? Now stop bullshitting me about slaughtering babies, because I am not for that."


Splutter sputter etc.

And yes. We are trying to accomplish drama with this. 

I've had the "if abortion is what pro-life voters are really concerned about, if it's not just an unhealthy obsession with women's sex lives, then why don't they put their weight behind sex education and access to contraception, since studies have shown that that's what actually works to reduce unwanted pregnancies" talk with my father. The two of us were on a long interstate road trip, I get cranky when I'm hungry, and I went there. It was a peaceful conversation, but he did simply stonewall me by insisting he'd never heard of any such research and refusing to ever look it up himself.
post #39561 of 40281

Remember, as a modern-leaning society there is a huge stigma attached to creeping on young girls....but in many retrograde fundamentalist, religious leaning communities that stigma isn't considered that big a deal.

 

That said, our whole society is unnaturally obsessed with sexualizing youth, so there is that too.

post #39562 of 40281

There's a huge chunk of the electorate, that is far closer to the middle than some of you are willing to admit, that does not vote on anything approaching policy. They vote on the social or cultural narrative.

 

Democrats keep missing this point. Its pretty important.

 

Because honestly, the left has had policy sewn up for a couple decades. And yet it keeps losing. Every wonder why?

post #39563 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos Orange View Post

Do you guys know anyone who's oblivious to politics in 2017?

I think those are the folks who just quietly voted for Trump. That was the general truth in my part of the country, anyway.

Anecdotal evidence things might be looking slightly up:

My hardcore Republican extended family have quieted down the pro-Trump talk, and I think if he's on the 2020 ballot they'd just sit it out.

If it's Pence, of course they'll vote for him, but you know... baby steps.
post #39564 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post


Anecdotal evidence things might be looking slightly up:

My hardcore Republican extended family have quieted down the pro-Trump talk, and I think if he's on the 2020 ballot they'd just sit it out.

If it's Pence, of course they'll vote for him, but you know... baby steps.

 

Additional anecdotal evidence: some Fox-viewing family members are seriously questioning the veracity of what they're seeing on there.

post #39565 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post

 

Additional anecdotal evidence: some Fox-viewing family members are seriously questioning the veracity of what they're seeing on there.

I would say the Trump voters I know are avoiding talking about Trump as much as possible . . . but they're still going to vote Republican.

post #39566 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post

If it's Pence, of course they'll vote for him, but you know... baby steps.

 

I was going to make a Roy Moore joke here but decided against it.

post #39567 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post

Additional anecdotal evidence: some Fox-viewing family members are seriously questioning the veracity of what they're seeing on there.

Frankly that's huge. If FOX were to lose credibility in its audience's minds, that'd almost be the ballgame.
post #39568 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post

Frankly that's huge. If FOX were to lose credibility in its audience's minds, that'd almost be the ballgame.

I dunno, if you consider yourself a "pro-life Christian" in between voting for pedophiles and slashing health services for children, there's a good chance you've got compartmentalization down to a science. If GOP voters tune out Fox, some other form of hateful white noise (pun intended) will emerge.

post #39569 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post


Frankly that's huge. If FOX were to lose credibility in its audience's minds, that'd almost be the ballgame.


That depends on whether they're leaning towards "Maybe I should look at these other mainstream news sources and see if I can find some truth somewhere in the middle of all of them" or if they're leaning towards "I hear this Alex Jones guy knows the REAL score."

post #39570 of 40281

It's going to be a spectacle if/when the calculations change and the unified right-wing communications machine finally turns on Trump. 

 

I envision an overnight about-face. Some "We were always at war with Eastasia" shit.

post #39571 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
 

 

Who says they're actually ok with it? You seem to think its this binary thing. Over Thanksgiving, some tried to avoid the topic, others expressed some degree of regret. Now they got Roy Moore on the table, how do they respond to that?

Or sure, I can just go hassle strangers and tell them to get off their ass and go fucking vote. 

 

Look at literally ALL the horrible, amoral shit Trump said and did all through last year. And people STILL fucking voted for the fuck. Shit, with all this Moore stuff there's still a very good chance he's going to get elected. 

 

And people did not care. 

 

All that attacking and attempting to shame people's gonna accomplish is cause them to push back and band together stronger. That's just human instinct. 

post #39572 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos Orange View Post
 

At some point Trump say "I won, and I made money doing it" and THEN we'll know he knows it's over.

 

...and then the camera pulls back to see DJT standing in a bare concrete cell while the cell door bars slide across camera with a heavy locking sound....as the camera continues to pull back, we see Donny jr. in a cell on one side and Jared K in a cell on the other side....the camera continues to pull back and we see other members of the DJT admin. in all the other cells surrounding DJT.

 

That's how I want to see this end.

post #39573 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos Orange View Post
 

It's going to be a spectacle if/when the calculations change and the unified right-wing communications machine finally turns on Trump. 

 

I envision an overnight about-face. Some "We were always at war with Eastasia" shit.


Yeah, that's the one bit of the calculus that might get Trump's approval ratings below the magic number.  And yes, I absolutely believe it'll be exactly as you describe (should it happen), and Fox and Friends will act like they were all a bunch of mini Jeff Flakes/NeverTrumpers from the moment Trump announced his candidacy.

post #39574 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
 

 

It's not that they don't care if they're pedophiles; a lot of them just don't believe the allegations because Immortan Don and his crew have so firmly planted the "fake news" idea that anything remotely damaging to a Republican gets dismissed as some lefty plot.


I believe the scumbags trying to use the bible to justify his child-groping believe the allegations.

post #39575 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun View Post
 


I believe the scumbags trying to use the bible to justify his child-groping believe the allegations.


Yes, but that particular group doesn't believe there's anything wrong with it/is justifying behavior they've already been tacitly condoning for decades....see several posts above regarding the different mentalities re: teenagers and prepubescent children.

post #39576 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename View Post
 

 

Look at literally ALL the horrible, amoral shit Trump said and did all through last year. And people STILL fucking voted for the fuck. Shit, with all this Moore stuff there's still a very good chance he's going to get elected. 

 

And people did not care. 

 

This here is right on the money. The great shock of the 2016 election was the level of depravity Republican voters would publicly support. We still haven't found the edges of that yet.

post #39577 of 40281
Literally the only standard for Republicans is if the candidate has a pulse and will vote red. Many have admitted it.
post #39578 of 40281

They feel it is their mission on this earth to end abortion at any - and I mean  ANY   - cost.

 

It's extra frustrating because many of those single-issue voters are smart enough to realize they're being manipulated, but simply don't care. Because heaven.

post #39579 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangy View Post
 

I dunno, if you consider yourself a "pro-life Christian" in between voting for pedophiles and slashing health services for children, there's a good chance you've got compartmentalization down to a science. If GOP voters tune out Fox, some other form of hateful white noise (pun intended) will emerge.

 

In my family at least, the Fox-viewers are pro-choice atheists.  It's all about the economy and taxes for them.  The kicking point for them in regards to questioning what they're seeing on Fox is all of the bullshit surrounding Hilary and the fact that Fox is studiously avoiding talking about the Trump scandal in detail.  They're seeing the bias.

post #39580 of 40281

In other news, Trump formally told other leaders he plans on declaring Jerusalem the capital of Israel.

 

And Russia's been banned from the 2018 Olympics. 

post #39581 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos Orange View Post
 

It's going to be a spectacle if/when the calculations change and the unified right-wing communications machine finally turns on Trump. 

 

I envision an overnight about-face. Some "We were always at war with Eastasia" shit.

 

That's essentially what happened with "Morning Joe", which begs the question WHY they were Team Trump in the first place?

 

Trump's having a good week, considering - Supreme Court victory, approval rating frozen at 38%, and RNC getting on board with Moore.  It all seems tenuous.  It reminds me of high school actually - hey, people are being nice to me, inviting me to parties and stuff ... but, no, seriously, everybody still hates me.  You're only accepted until someone with more power decides you're not.  Nothing's changed.

post #39582 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

In other news, Trump formally told other leaders he plans on declaring Jerusalem the capital of Israel.

One leader threatening Trump over this? His ol' pal Erdogan - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/donald-trump-jerusalem-israel-capital-turkey-erdogan-muslims-diplomatic-ties-palestinians-recep-a8092411.html

post #39583 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos Orange View Post
 

 

 We still haven't found the edges of that yet.

 

Yes we have. The Republican base has shrunk 12% since Trump was elected (5 points nationally). There's a hard core there that will never give it up, but there has been significant erosion around multiple demos that pulled the lever for Trump.

 

Will they just go back to voting for your standard asshole Republican? Probably. Which is why its important to stress messaging on these sorts of national cultural issues Dems traditionally shy away from - the RNC endorsed Roy Moore, how can you support the RNC? And to dial in on the tax bill in more than basic policy terms - the GOP lied about their tax bill, and its going to hurt you.

 

The strategy of just letting them do what they're gonna do because they're all hopeless and crazy anyway isn't really a winning one. There are plenty of people who voted for Trump, who feel bad about it. That  has to be used as a wedge to make them question voting for Republicans going forward, because otherwise that's what they're gonna do. But just saying they'll band together, no. Its a mischaracterization of how we got here in the first place, and its deeply problematic to just write people off like that. It sucks, its shitty, they did a shitty thing and voted for shitty outcomes. It can't be handled with kids gloves, it can't be approached like its not a big deal. 

 

I think a certain degree of aggression is absolutely called for in grappling with it. One thing I will give the Berniacs, they were obnoxious and aggressive and in your face. And that worked, to a pretty significant degree. That garnered them a lot of support from places they otherwise would not have expected.

 

If centrist Dems can't manage that, then they're gonna continue to lose races that should absolutely be victories. It goes back to the problem of not having a unifying voice in articulating this stuff. There is way too much deference and meekness in the messaging.

post #39584 of 40281
post #39585 of 40281

So on a scale of 1-10, how absolutely disastrous would the official recognition/legitimization of Jerusalem as Israel's capital be in terms of how emboldened Israel will be to "defend their capital" and how infuriated Muslim nations will be by it?

 

Potential for worst foreign policy blunder of the 21st century?  (And yes, I'm keeping Dubya's stuff  in consideration here).

post #39586 of 40281

The push for DJT and the right-wing political structure to deligitimize news media has the possibility of backfiring on them eventually.

 

They constantly say that the 'main stream media' is 'fake news'.....well, guess what, in addition to MSNBC, CNN, NYT, WaPo, etc., FoxNews, WSJ, Wash. Times, are all members of the so-called MSM.

 

-----------------

DJT supporter- "....all those liberal MSM news programs are 'fake news' "

 

Normal sane individual- "...it could be said that FoxNews is also 'main stream media', yes?"

 

DJT fan- 'Well.....yeah...sorta"

 

NSI- "so....maybe...just maybe it could be considered that Fox News isn't telling the whole truth?"

 

DJT voter- " but....they tell the truth....."

 

NSI- "but they are a main stream media outlet....and the MSM does lie to you, right?"

 

DJT supporter- "....um...well...but....."

 

NSI-  "Hey, you were the one saying that the msm is lying to us....."

 

DJT- "....?...."

post #39587 of 40281

I think Zhukov hits on a fair point. I'd say that Democrats shouldn't necessarily be aggressive, but they should try and sound authentic, which is their biggest problem. The Pod Save America guys have done a great job of getting Democratic politicians to sound like human beings - whether it's Kamala Harris swearing, or Kirsten Gillebrand choking up when she talks about Sandy Hook and gun control, or any time Jason Kander is on. Be authentic.

post #39588 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangy View Post
 

Doug Jones, today:

Not even kidding when I say Moore is probably more offended at accusations of being a fake hunter.

 

Doug Jones apparently gets where I'm coming from.

post #39589 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

I'd say that Democrats shouldn't necessarily be aggressive

 

You need a couple who are, at least.

 

Back when there was a 50-state strategy, and Democrats were winning seats in traditionally Republican places, Howard Dean had no problem getting up there and calling out bullshit when and where he saw it. In no uncertain terms.

post #39590 of 40281

Converting Trump voters still feels like a lost cause, because they aren't rational actors - you can't speak reason to that. It's better to just shame these shameful fucking people into not voting and spend your energy focusing on the folks who stayed home in 2016, whoever they are. 

post #39591 of 40281

It might seem like a good idea now, but the RNC backing Moore will be an albatross for decades.  Liberals will pull that out of their back pocket whenever they want for the next 20/30 years.

post #39592 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmacq1 View Post

So on a scale of 1-10, how absolutely disastrous would the official recognition/legitimization of Jerusalem as Israel's capital be in terms of how emboldened Israel will be to "defend their capital" and how infuriated Muslim nations will be by it?

Potential for worst foreign policy blunder of the 21st century?  (And yes, I'm keeping Dubya's stuff  in consideration here).

It'd pretty much kill even the pretense of the US being able to function as a neutral broker.

There's little likelihood of it being unrung if we actually effected an embassy relocation, so there'd truly be only one path forward (in the long-term I mean): Jerusalem being declared an international city, with both Israeli and Palestinian embassies being established there after a Palestinian state is created.

But since we're going out of our way to say "nope, this is Israel's city"?

Wars have been started for a lot less.

The most likely WAR scenario I think is still unlikely. It looks like terrorist attacks spiking, Israel rolling into Gaza and the West Bank to restore order, and Iran thinking its a better time than any to come and assist. The Trump factor has made this all a lot harder to predict than it used to be, so while my gut says Iran will sit on its hands in that scenario, really who the fuck knows these days.
post #39593 of 40281

This is how you claw this thing out:

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/363345-jones-men-who-hurt-little-girls-should-go-to-jail-not-the-senate

 

Most recent polling has Jones up 4 points.

 

The Jerusalem thing sounds like one of Trumps half-assed ideas that will get little to no follow through. Its destabilizing just to say it, but Tillerson and the half-dozen remaining State employees probably aren't going to be prioritizing that particular change. 

post #39594 of 40281

Quote:

Originally Posted by WendellEverett View Post
 

It might seem like a good idea now, but the RNC backing Moore will be an albatross for decades.  Liberals will pull that out of their back pocket whenever they want for the next 20/30 years.

 

Pull it out of their back pocket for what?  To score points in internet debates before the other guy says "Yeah, I forgot about how the DNC refused to support Bill Clinton...lol oh wait, they did.  So you support an actual rapist instead of just an attempted one."

post #39595 of 40281
post #39596 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCA View Post
 

Independence Day star Randy Quaid may be coming for Bernie Sanders senate seat:

 

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/05/independence-day-star-randy-quaid-may-be-coming-for-bernie-sanders-senate-seat-7134573/?ito=mweb.article.share.top.twitter


Isn't Randy Quaid's mental health...highly questionable?  Or am I misremembering something?

post #39597 of 40281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmacq1 View Post
 


Isn't Randy Quaid's mental health...highly questionable?  Or am I misremembering something?


These days, that's an asset!

post #39598 of 40281

Isn't Randy Quaid, like, banned from the United States because he'd go to jail immediately? 

post #39599 of 40281

Yeah I last I heard he was hiding out in the Canadian wilderness with that crazy wife of his.

post #39600 of 40281

He's apparently living in Vermont after having fled to Canada, but he cannot leave Vermont otherwise he might be arrested. 

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