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Trumpocalypse Now - Page 827

post #41301 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post

Calm down, everyone.

Somehow, that doesn't help.
post #41302 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto II View Post
 

 

Probably not until after November 2018. But if it happens, the midterms are gonna be a total GOP holocaust, compared to the "mere" likely wipeout that they're currently projected to be at the moment.

 

Should such midterm elections take place and are free and fair.  I'm not particularly sanguine on that matter. 

post #41303 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendrix View Post

Politicians don’t have to be politicians forever. Now that they’ve done their masters’ bidding, they can retreat to their cushy post-political consulting gigs or retirements as a reward for a job well done.

 

If the plan was for the entire party to retreat into lucrative obscurity, why would there be a need to protect Trump on the way out?

post #41304 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun View Post
 

 

Should such midterm elections take place and are free and fair.  I'm not particularly sanguine on that matter. 

 

All due respect, give me a fucking break. 

 

Alabama is one of the most heavily gerrymandered states AND one of the hardest states to vote in, thanks to voter suppression. Look what just happened. 

 

What's incredibly frustrating about your posts is that you opt for doom and gloom as the default, even when presented with on-the-ground, factual evidence from people who know about and study this stuff. And even when that's pointed out, you fall back on little pessimistic bon mots like these. It's exhausting, particularly when it comes on the heels of questions like "Isn't Trump still very popular?" 

post #41305 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post

If the plan was for the entire party to retreat into lucrative obscurity, why would there be a need to protect Trump on the way out?

They can make a triumphant return when Dems can’t fix the train wreck of the GOP’s making.
post #41306 of 45000

With equal respect Boone, there are quite a few people who are scared shitless.  I'm not necessarily one of them, but boy oh boy do I understand where they're coming from.

post #41307 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun View Post
 

 

Should such midterm elections take place and are free and fair.  I'm not particularly sanguine on that matter. 

 

If the GOP intend to suppress their way out of all of this, they're going to need to really step up their game from how the 2017 elections have gone.  Double digit swings from last year have been the order of the day across the board, even with things weighted toward special elections that are limited by design to the safest partisan strongholds in the country.

 

I'm not saying they will play fair.  But they will definitely be playing scared, and I'm not sure that translates to circling the wagons around Trump (particularly once the tax bill is signed).

post #41308 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by mondguy View Post
 

With equal respect Boone, there are quite a few people who are scared shitless.  I'm not necessarily one of them, but boy oh boy do I understand where they're coming from.

 

I absolutely understand being scared shitless, and I understand pessimism. I don't begrudge that.

 

But statements like "I doubt there will be free and fair elections next year" seems so specifically pulled from the dredges of Paranoid Left Twitter that it's hard to engage that kind of thing intellectually, even when people go out of their way to explain it. And, I don't know, it just seems like such a deeply hopeless and pessimistic statement. 

 

There are plenty of other things to be scared about that are happening now, and happening soon, that are way more practical and worthy of fighting back against - including voter suppression! I'm not going to post that quote about hope again, but I think there's value in imagining the impossible, being aware of the worst case scenario, but not letting the WCS be the default. 

post #41309 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by mondguy View Post
 

With equal respect Boone, there are quite a few people who are scared shitless.  I'm not necessarily one of them, but boy oh boy do I understand where they're coming from.

 

I certainly understand that, but Boone has a point that if you are going to ask a question like "can the the Dems actually win in Trump country, though?" then you need to acknowledge that they did lift Jeff Sessions' seat out from under the Republicans earlier this week.


Edited by Schwartz - 12/16/17 at 8:55am
post #41310 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
 

 

I certainly understand that, but Boone has a point that if you are going to ask a question like "can the the Dems actually win in Trump country, though?" and not acknowledge that, well they did lift Jeff Sessions' seat out from under the Republicans earlier this week.

 

Point taken.  It just seems like the shit is never ending though.  It's day to day stress, and some people can't handle it as well.

post #41311 of 45000
https://twitter.com/cnn/status/941790490348974080

Possible Mueller-Trump sitdown next week.

“I tell you, if it's between you and some poor bastard whose wife you're gonna turn into a widow, brother, you are going down.”
post #41312 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

 

All due respect, give me a fucking break. 

 

Alabama is one of the most heavily gerrymandered states AND one of the hardest states to vote in, thanks to voter suppression. Look what just happened. 

 

What's incredibly frustrating about your posts is that you opt for doom and gloom as the default, even when presented with on-the-ground, factual evidence from people who know about and study this stuff. And even when that's pointed out, you fall back on little pessimistic bon mots like these. It's exhausting, particularly when it comes on the heels of questions like "Isn't Trump still very popular?" 

 

My doom and gloom attitude is based on the opinions of people who know about and study this stuff.  And if it helps, Mr. Jones' victory brought me no small amount of joy.  Despite the fact that I don't even live in the same country.  Nothing Moore would have done had he won really affects me in any way, but his loss pleased me greatly anyway.

 

Trump is still popular with the people who put Congressional Republicans where they are.  They won't bite the hand that's feeding them.  If they were willing to do so they'd have done so and handed the job to Pence.  Yes?  No?  Am I missing facts or an understanding of some subtle give and take that goes with your political system?

 

I do like the idea of the Republicans suffering a holocaust.  Seems fitting.

post #41313 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by mondguy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post

I certainly understand that, but Boone has a point that if you are going to ask a question like "can the the Dems actually win in Trump country, though?" and not acknowledge that, well they did lift Jeff Sessions' seat out from under the Republicans earlier this week.
Point taken. It just seems like the shit is never ending though. It's day to day stress, and some people can't handle it as well.
I totally get that. This year has been hell on my blood pressure and bile level, for sure. But as bad as this is, there is still reason to hope that we aren't 140% fucked just yet.
post #41314 of 45000

130%, we can probably manage.

post #41315 of 45000
I just keep hoping that this is all happening for a reason. Like....people turn on Trump so harshly that brings the country together in a Sept 12, 2001 kinda way. Maybe Putin is Ozymandias and Trump is his squid.

There was more than a little delusional hyperbole in that..
post #41316 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun View Post
 

 

My doom and gloom attitude is based on the opinions of people who know about and study this stuff.  And if it helps, Mr. Jones' victory brought me no small amount of joy.  Despite the fact that I don't even live in the same country.  Nothing Moore would have done had he won really affects me in any way, but his loss pleased me greatly anyway.

 

Trump is still popular with the people who put Congressional Republicans where they are.  They won't bite the hand that's feeding them.  If they were willing to do so they'd have done so and handed the job to Pence.  Yes?  No?  Am I missing facts or an understanding of some subtle give and take that goes with your political system?

Trump is still popular with the people who vote in Republican primaries. The kind of people who vote for Roy Moore not once, but twice.
 

He is less popular with the general electorate, and Republicans are facing wildly depressed turnout in the various special and, in the case of Virginia, general elections this year. That's only going to get worse. And as it gets worse - and it will - you may start to see more and more Republicans jump ship.

 

Russia isn't going away. Trump being Trump isn't going away. The Democratic wave of civic engagement isn't going away. These things are going to continue to be problems.

 

Furthermore, the path to the House isn't through Alabama or Georgia or Florida or even Ohio. It's through New York and California and lots of place where Republicans are in districts where Clinton won, where Trump is now very unpopular. And those are places where voter suppression is far less of an issue than they are in places like Alabama. And we don't need to win every seat - we need to win a majority. 

 

And if we put up numbers in every district like we put up in the Georgia 6th (where Dems lost) or Virginia (where they did not), then that's going to be a blue wave. Even half of those numbers is enough to take back the House in swing districts.

 

Senate is harder. But again, if they nominate batshit crazies in Nevada and Arizona, like they're on track to do, things could get very interesting. And as of right now, we need to defend a bunch of seats, sure - but we also need to win two. 

 

But here's the reason why the House is the whole enchilada next year: With a unified Democratic caucus and majority, we can blunt the Trump agenda. We can launch committee hearings. We can subpoena documents. We can truly investigate some of the heinous shit that's been happening in the last year, and we can stifle any legislation that might want to go through. And if we win the Senate, that means no more Neil Gorsuches. Period. 

 

And as others have pointed out, Republicans, internally, have to be running scared. They're looking at the turnout numbers and probably thinking "oh shit," and I gurantee you, they're thinking about how to best save their own skins, not make sure there aren't free and fair elections. This is where I think Kendzior, among others, goes wrong - the failure to acknowledge the effect of wanting to save one's own individual ass. On top of all that, it's really fucking hard to rig the vote when people are watching you try to do it

 

So yes, it is more nuanced and subtle then you sometimes make it out to be. 

post #41317 of 45000
I’m part of what Boone would call the Dirtbag Left. But he makes a lot of sense here.
post #41318 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendrix View Post

I’m part of what Boone would call the Dirtbag Left. But he makes a lot of sense here.

 

To be fair, bendrix, I don't think you are. :)

post #41319 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post

To be fair, bendrix, I don't think you are. smile.gif

Well, I agree with Chapo more than Pod Save America. But if I didn’t have any hope that Trump would be defeated, I might as well slit my wrists now.
post #41320 of 45000

The level of civic engagement gives me great hope that this can be turned around.  Republicans are going to fight it every step of the way, and you know they will not fight fair.

post #41321 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun View Post
 

The level of civic engagement gives me great hope that this can be turned around.  Republicans are going to fight it every step of the way, and you know they will not fight fair.

 

I agree on both counts. Which is why I think it's important for us to know who the enemy is. 

post #41322 of 45000

Also, obligatory mention that even though I get in y'alls faces, I love and respect and appreciate the discussion here. It's kept me sane, too. 

post #41323 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun View Post

 

Trump is still popular with the people who put Congressional Republicans where they are.  They won't bite the hand that's feeding them.  If they were willing to do so they'd have done so and handed the job to Pence.  Yes?  No?  Am I missing facts or an understanding of some subtle give and take that goes with your political system?

 

 

Not even anything subtle.  Just that swing districts/states do actually swing, particularly when there is a polarizing figure in the White House.   And that the GOP base is already such a divided, mismatched excuse for a "coalition" that keeping it happy is not an easy task.  Even if you aren't inducing constitutional crises chock full of salacious and traitorous allegations in an election year.  

 

That doesn't guarantee any outcome.  The only thing that is certain is that there is no clean, quiet exit from the Mueller investigation for the party as a whole.  The snowball is too far down the hill already.

post #41324 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post

But the assumption that Congressional Republicans would let it slide is what confuses me.  I can't imagine being up for reelection next year, looking at Alabama and the November state elections and thinking "yeah, this Trump train is definitely the one to be on."

Why? These people are all about undermining our large outcries against tax theft, wealth inequality, sexual assault, healthcare, treason and Nazism. Why would firing Mueller be one step too far after their basic disregard for the common people?

Frankly, I’m worried about the state of the country when we allow these things to flirt with becoming a real possibility. What’s left to take after we’ve all continued to sit on our hands, in the comfort of our homes, “doing our part” through social media?

“Rome didn’t fall in a day” and all that.
post #41325 of 45000

There are complications if Trump goes after McCabe:

 

https://www.lawfareblog.com/christopher-wrays-first-problem-what-do-about-andrew-mccabe

 

post #41326 of 45000

So now the Trump regime has given the CDC a list of words and phrases they're aren't allowed to use in any documents concerning next year's budget.  They are as follows:

 

 

vulnerable

entitlement

diversity

transgender

fetus

evidence-based

science-based

 

 

By an amusing coincidence, the number of these dirty words is seven.

post #41327 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

Erin Gloria Ryan was on Twitter predicting firing Mueller on Christmas Eve. 

 

Walter Shaub thinks something might be coming:

 

post #41328 of 45000

"VIOLENT REVOLUTION IS COMING!"

 

"...I'm concerned."

post #41329 of 45000

I wouldn't let the racist, pedophile Moore's paper-thin defeat be seen as some sort of proof we're on the rebound. In any sane democracy that would've been a landslide beatdown. Underestimate these villainous cretins at your own peril. They're not through sacking the country just yet.

post #41330 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
 

I wouldn't let the racist, pedophile Moore's paper-thin defeat be seen as some sort of proof we're on the rebound. In any sane democracy that would've been a landslide beatdown. Underestimate these villainous cretins at your own peril. They're not through sacking the country just yet.

 

We don't need to give them a beatdown. 

 

We just need to beat them. 

 

People throughout the South thought the Civil Rights Acts were bad legislation, too. There will always be villainous cretin.

 

Also, a point and a half is nothing to sneeze at, particularly in a place like Alabama. If we put up those numbers and margins in districts that are actually competitive, that's a landslide beatdown. It's all about context. 

post #41331 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto II View Post

Walter Shaub thinks something might be coming:



Well, that’s super encouraging.

I want to believe Judas and his “calm down” message before. I’ll stick to that.
post #41332 of 45000
Underestimating Trump's chances to win should have been the LAST time anything was underestimated. After that....nobody should ever assume SHIT and just do everything within your power to see that something like this never happens again.

You own a gun. There's gonna be kids in the house. You KNOW that it's unloaded. You know it. You KNOW that they don't know where the bullets are. And how could a five year old figure out how to load it even if they DID find them? You don't do that. You put that fucking gun up as far out of reach and out of sight as is possible. Because you don't wanna spend the rest of your days having underestimated a child's ability to find it, get it and load it.

Every fucking citizen of this country who didn't vote because they thought Trump couldn't win....no way.....better have their asses down there to do it next time..
post #41333 of 45000

Ivanka Trump is opening a retail outlet in Trump Tower:

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/365073-ivanka-trump-opens-her-first-store-in-trump-tower

 

Quote:
Ivanka Trump's fashion brand has opened its first retail outlet located in Trump Tower in New York City, Bloomberg reported Friday.
The shop in Trump Tower's lobby sells handbags, shoes, jewelry and other gifts including an exclusive in-store only Christmas ornament priced at $25.

 

A White House official not having to divest from private business interests sounds like nice work if you can get it.

post #41334 of 45000

I wonder how popular a platform that included a promise to remove elected officials from the election process would be.  Whose idea was it to let people with a vested interest in the outcome determine electoral boundaries and count votes and the like anyway?

post #41335 of 45000
Ezra Klein makes great points, but, at the end of the day, it was either going to be Trump's populism or Ryan's conservatism. Since Trump gets bored quickly and just wants "wins," Ryan was the winner. It's exactly why I believed Ryan when he said Trump was coming around to his line of thinking on entitlements.





post #41336 of 45000
We should all have a vested interest so that line is kinda blurry but I see your point and even might support such a thing..
post #41337 of 45000

For all of Paul Ryan's talk of having more babies recently, the tax bill has a penalty for married couples:

 

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/tax-bill-2017/card/1513382086

 

Quote:

The Republicans’ new limit on state and local tax deductions will be gentler on individual filers than married couples.

 

The cap is $10,000 for both individuals and for married filers. Individuals will find it much easier to use because it’s an itemized deduction. That means they take it if their total deductions are over $12,000, the new higher standard deduction.

 

So a single person with the maximum $10,000 of income and property taxes and $3,000 of charitable contributions would be able to itemize deductions.

 

A married couple at the cap of $10,000 of income and property taxes would need another $14,000 in mortgage interest, charity and other deductions to get to the $24,000 standard deduction.

 

There’s a catch: According to the conference agreement, individuals can’t prepay their 2018 income taxes in 2017 to take advantage of the last year of the unlimited deduction. 

post #41338 of 45000

If not for the really evil parts of that bill, I'd want it to pass just for the laughs at all the truly stupid parts.

 

When they die, we need to preserve their brains like some of the CTE-afflicted NFL players have. There -must- be a cause for this many people to have such underdeveloped frontal lobes.

post #41339 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraid uh noman View Post

We should all have a vested interest so that line is kinda blurry but I see your point and even might support such a thing..

 

Not in the same way Kathryn Harris had a vested interest in the results of the 2000 Florida recount.

 

Think of it like the Secret Service or something.  They have a job to do, and they do it a certain way, and that way doesn't shift with the political winds.  They aren't run by an administrator who will have them do this or that or the other for the benefit of that administrator's party.  The bodies in charge of elections should operate in a similar fashion.

post #41340 of 45000
No, I follow. I'd just hate to be the person whose job it was to make that distinction..
post #41341 of 45000

Pruitt hired a GOP oppo research group to hunt down resistance-types within the agency:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/15/us/politics/epa-scott-pruitt-foia.html?mtrref=t.co&gwh=7FB53697CEDC8EC73A291F5136C9D27B&gwt=pay

 

Is anything not completely insane with the GOP?

post #41342 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraid uh noman View Post

No, I follow. I'd just hate to be the person whose job it was to make that distinction..

 

Copy our system.  There's no reason you couldn't use it as a template, anyway.  Elections Canada doesn't run provincial elections, each province does its own, so the issue of Federal vs. State jurisdiction isn't a deal breaker.  I believe that would be a big step forward in dealing with gerrymandering and vote suppression and so on.  They don't need to answer to the president or any other politician any more than Secret Service's bodyguards do.

post #41343 of 45000
I think that'd be great if we could do something more like that..
post #41344 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
 

Pruitt hired a GOP oppo research group to hunt down resistance-types within the agency:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/15/us/politics/epa-scott-pruitt-foia.html?mtrref=t.co&gwh=7FB53697CEDC8EC73A291F5136C9D27B&gwt=pay

 

Is anything not completely insane with the GOP?

 

Am I the only one thinking that this is some political coup level shit ?

 

 

deja vu?      Purges of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union

post #41345 of 45000

Copying Canada sounds great.

 

How do we do it? 

post #41346 of 45000

Susan Bro, the mother of Charlottesville victim Heather Heyer, has actually hidden her daughter's grave site to protect it from white supremacists:

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/365020-heather-heyers-mom-hiding-daughters-grave-at-unmarked-location

 

Quote:
The mother of Heather Heyer, the 32-year-old woman killed after a man drove a car into a crowd of people marching against a white nationalist rally last summer in Charlottesville, Va., said she's had to hide the site where her daughter's ashes are interred.
Susan Bro, Heyer's mother, told The Daily Beast that her daughter's ashes were at an unmarked, "completely protected" site that is not open to the public in an effort to shield the grave from the white supremacists who have threatened her family, she said. 
“It’s a symptom of hate in society that you should have to protect your child’s grave, for Pete’s sake,” says Bro. “So, I’m protecting my child now."
She said she is also keeping the location a secret to protect people working there.
Bro has reportedly blocked President Trump's attempted calls to console her family, following his controversial comments saying there were "very fine people" and blame on "many sides" of the rally, and said she holds him partially responsible for her daughter's death. 
“I’m starting to come to that conclusion because he definitely pushes forward a hateful agenda," she said, when asked if she holds Trump responsible. 
post #41347 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

Copying Canada sounds great.

 

How do we do it? 

 

Run for Governor with such electoral reform as part of your platform. 

post #41348 of 45000

Don't mess with the creators of the "Harlem Shake," apparently:

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/365061-harlem-shake-creators-threaten-to-sue-over-fcc-chairmans-anti

 

Quote:
The creators of the viral “Harlem Shake” are threatening to take legal action for the use of the song in a video featuring Federal Communications Commission (FCC) Chairman Ajit Pai promoting the repeal of net neutrality rules.
Baauer, a DJ whose real name is Harry Rodrigues, said he was “taking action” over the song's use in a tweet Thursday night.
post #41349 of 45000
post #41350 of 45000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun View Post
 

 

Run for Governor with such electoral reform as part of your platform. 

 

The kind of electoral reform you're talking about requires national, not state-wide solutions.

 

So how do we do that nationally?

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