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ROGUE ONE: A STAR WARS STORY - An Actual Post-Release Thread - Page 71

post #3501 of 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradW View Post
 

Why did Cassian, in his first scene, kill that dude with the injured arm?

Due to his injured arm, he wouldn't have been able to climb out with Cassian; so Cassian killed him so they both wouldn't be caught or shot by stormtroopers.

post #3502 of 5253

Damn, that's pretty cold-blooded. I thought that might be why, but it's pretty stone-cold for one of the supposed good guys.

post #3503 of 5253
Sort of establishes him as a do-anything guy, no?
post #3504 of 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradW View Post
 

Damn, that's pretty cold-blooded. I thought that might be why, but it's pretty stone-cold for one of the supposed good guys.


He did operate in a morally gray area. I'm not saying I approve of him shooting a guy in the back, but if he didn't then the rebels wouldn't know about the Death Star.

post #3505 of 5253
Only because they wrote it that way!
post #3506 of 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post

Only because they wrote it that way!

 

Man, you really cracked the code there.

post #3507 of 5253
It just makes me laugh when people respond to criticism of a story development by acting like that's the only way things could've happened. Because, you know, it's fiction.
post #3508 of 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post

It just makes me laugh when people respond to criticism of a story development by acting like that's the only way things could've happened. Because, you know, it's fiction.

 

Was there even a criticism?  One person wans't clear on the mechanics is all.

post #3509 of 5253
I respond by laughing at that too Commodore, and I also respond by laughing when people respond to someone responding to an ambiguous question or statement as if they were responding to someone responding to a criticism of a story development.

Until BradW returns to let us know whether he considers Cassian's killing of One-Arm Nigel a case of poor storytelling how will we know at what and towards whom we should guffaw in response?

So complex this discussion is. Please respond.
post #3510 of 5253
what a shoddy movie!
post #3511 of 5253
Poor response.
post #3512 of 5253

Not very effective response.

post #3513 of 5253
what a shoddy response!
post #3514 of 5253
Still haven't seen this since yesterday when I bragged about not seeing this.
post #3515 of 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post

It just makes me laugh when people respond to criticism of a story development by acting like that's the only way things could've happened. Because, you know, it's fiction.

 

Didn't you specifically not see the movie due to fear of necromancy?

post #3516 of 5253
What the ...

Force ghost?!?

post #3517 of 5253
Always watching.

Waiting.

Plotting.
post #3518 of 5253
gif




gif
post #3519 of 5253
What the ...

Droid short circuit?!?

post #3520 of 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucho View Post

What the ...

Droid short circuit?!?

 

edit:  hehehe lucky for you guys, the image link broke! 


Edited by mcnooj82 - 3/21/17 at 9:58am
post #3521 of 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil spurn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post

It just makes me laugh when people respond to criticism of a story development by acting like that's the only way things could've happened. Because, you know, it's fiction.
Didn't you specifically not see the movie due to fear of necromancy?
There were any number of reasons I didn't see the movie, but yes, necromancy was one of them.
post #3522 of 5253
Agh! Random Junji Ito is never cool!
post #3523 of 5253
Nooj is a disease

And the only cure is Barry
post #3524 of 5253
I guess Agent wants to talk about boring rogue one!
post #3525 of 5253
No

I don't want your nightmare fuel either
post #3526 of 5253
The original ending (in which Jyn and Cassian survived) described here:

http://ew.com/movies/2017/03/20/rogue-one-alternate-ending-revealed/?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter

Definitely glad they went with the one in the film over that.
Edited by Dent6084 - 3/20/17 at 7:59am
post #3527 of 5253

As suggested upthread, having Jyn and Cassian be among those Vader kills at the very end of the film probably would've have the most resonance (with Jyn being the one who hands off the disc through the closing door). I'm good with the ending we have, but it could've been amped up for maximum impact.

post #3528 of 5253

I'm of the opinion that the existing ending is right on the line of how dark you can push a star war without it becoming jarringly off brand.  Having Vader personally chop up the heroes would take it from harsh-but-not-utterly-bleak to outright cruel.

post #3529 of 5253
Having Vader chop up the heroes we've been following would just make the universe smaller and smaller whereas these movies are meant to be expanding the universe and showing us different characters and stories unconnected to the saga story.

The fact that Vader™ turned up at all and used his lightsaber™ in a movie that didn't warrant lightsabers™ was too on the nose and smacks of a marketing decision rather than a storytelling one.
post #3530 of 5253

True, it also would've shrunk the universe further still.  But I think the cruelty of it would've been a bigger issue.  As it is, the scene is unnecessary, but I like it. Nothing wrong with that, really.

post #3531 of 5253
Just unreal that they had the balls to kill every single one of their hero crew in a gargantuan family blockbuster like this. Just amazing, unprecedented courage from all concerned. It's never happened before in the history of cinema and I wager it'll never happen again. Just outstanding bravery. I still wake up some mornings going, "Wait ... did they really do that, or did I just dream it?" Just incredible.

And I'm still with Schwartz on the ending. The difference in tone between having your superpowered monster mow down anonymous redshirts vs having them annihilate the effectively defenseless hero of the movie is galactic in scale.

Yes, Vader should have fought and killed the formidable pairing of Force-sensitive kung fu master Chirrut and massive-chaingun-blaster-wielding and potentially Force-sensitive Baze (what better moment for him to reconnect to his faith than when faced with Vader himself) in an heroic last stand/buy-Jyn-more-time battle. But heck no Vader shouldn't have ended the life of tiny, tiny, non-Force sensitive pea-shooter-toting Jyn.
post #3532 of 5253

Looks like EW is doing "What Might Have Beens" on Rogue One this whole week - today's is that, in the original draft, Krennic somehow "found shelter" and survived the Death Star blast, was recovered by Imperial troops, and brought to Vader for execution. This was instead of Vader's rampage against Rebel troops.

 

http://ew.com/movies/2017/03/21/rogue-almost-got-more-vader-killing-a-major-character/

 

Again, probably a choice for the better - the sheer improbability of "finding shelter that would help you survive a Death Star blast" really reduces the power of the Death Star.

post #3533 of 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucho View Post

Just unreal that they had the balls to kill every single one of their hero crew in a gargantuan family blockbuster like this.

 

They would have been harder balls if they had actually made us care about the people they dispatched. 

post #3534 of 5253

what a dull BWOLL-LESS movie!

post #3535 of 5253
Now I'm imagining a Uwe Boll Star Wars movie and it's glorious.
post #3536 of 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post

They would have been harder balls if they had actually made us care about the people they dispatched. 

Hmmmm, it certainly appears as though someone hasn't quite managed to grasp what it means to possess gargantuan balls.

Evel Knieval's balls weren't any smaller on the jumps on which he fell short than they were on the jumps he landed successfully. The measure of a person's balls lies in the attempt, not in the outcome. It remains an undeniable, scientifically-verified, empirically-proven fact that no blockbuster director has shown their balls to be as formidable as those of Gareth Edwards.

Funnily enough it remains an undeniable, scientifically-verified, empirically-proven fact that the failure of any audience member to care at all about Jyn Erso speaks to a lack in the audience member, and not in the filmmaker.
post #3537 of 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucho View Post


Hmmmm, it certainly appears as though someone hasn't quite managed to grasp what it means to possess gargantuan balls.

Evel Knieval's balls weren't any smaller on the jumps on which he fell short than they were on the jumps he landed successfully. The measure of a person's balls lies in the attempt, not in the outcome. It remains an undeniable, scientifically-verified, empirically-proven fact that no blockbuster director has shown their balls to be as formidable as those of Gareth Edwards.

Funnily enough it remains an undeniable, scientifically-verified, empirically-proven fact that the failure of any audience member to care at all about Jyn Erso speaks to a lack in the audience member, and not in the filmmaker.

 

Our ability to care within the frame work of the story is connected with our ability to get to know said characters. The story barely gives us characters at all. They are walking story devices to get from point A to point B. Of course it is up to the filmmaker. These stories aren't real without them. 

post #3538 of 5253
It's too difficult to pin down exactly what works for some people and why and what doesn't work for others and why, simply because it's such a Frankenstein of ideas and plot points that were mishmashed together to get the end result. Edwards has admitted as such recently, saying shots like the TIE Fighter at the gantry or the rebels running across the beach were just things they tried but they didn't end up using - there's no alternate cut, or deleted scenes with these. They shot them, they didn't work, they tried something else.

I get the whole pick-up shoot or reshooting is part of modern filmmaking, but who goes to lengths such as finished effects shots that are from plot points or story beats that are so far removed from the final outcome? They were literally making so much of it up as they went along and it does show in the final film - Carnotaur's dead on when he says some characters are simply devices to get to A to B.

It's easy to care for Jynn on a surface level, but halfway through the movie you realise the thing looks like Star Wars but the heart of what goes into a good story simply isn't there. It's all so manufactured and hollow.
post #3539 of 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stale Elvis View Post

It's too difficult to pin down exactly what works for some people and why and what doesn't work for others and why, simply because it's such a Frankenstein of ideas and plot points that were mishmashed together to get the end result. Edwards has admitted as such recently, saying shots like the TIE Fighter at the gantry or the rebels running across the beach were just things they tried but they didn't end up using - there's no alternate cut, or deleted scenes with these. They shot them, they didn't work, they tried something else.

I get the whole pick-up shoot or reshooting is part of modern filmmaking, but who goes to lengths such as finished effects shots that are from plot points or story beats that are so far removed from the final outcome? They were literally making so much of it up as they went along and it does show in the final film - Carnotaur's dead on when he says some characters are simply devices to get to A to B.

It's easy to care for Jynn on a surface level, but halfway through the movie you realise the thing looks like Star Wars but the heart of what goes into a good story simply isn't there. It's all so manufactured and hollow.

 

Very well said.  But I also think Edwards isn't interested in characters, nor even story (apparently that can be manipulated up until the day of release).  Those are just excuses for his visuals. And there in lies the rub - the focus is misplaced.  You reap what you sow.  

post #3540 of 5253

I think some filmmakers legitimately believe their visuals are the story.  I think Lucas once said back in the 70s that people don't care about the plot as long as the visuals are exciting.  The guy was a prophet.  

post #3541 of 5253
Yeah, someone should give him a shot at one of these. He'd kill it.
post #3542 of 5253

If Edwards had spent his reshoot time wondering what makes the characters tick, I guarantee you Rogue One would have worked. I'll give that filmmaker credit for experimenting, he just did it on the wrong thing. 

post #3543 of 5253

.


Edited by Overlord - 7/27/17 at 12:27pm
post #3544 of 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post
 

 

Our ability to care within the frame work of the story is connected with our ability to get to know said characters. The story barely gives us characters at all. They are walking story devices to get from point A to point B. Of course it is up to the filmmaker. These stories aren't real without them. 

 

 

No one's saying that characters aren't important.  But there were characters, and clearly the goal was to make you care about them.  The degree to which they succeeded varies, though it's patently absurd to say that no one cared at all about Baze, Chirrut, K2, or Jyn.  And they did kill off everyone they spend the entire movie trying to get you to care about.  That is ballsy, regardless of what you think of the final product - Bucho's algebra checks out in that regard.  I can't think of another example of a family-friendly franchise movie aiming for that level of darkness (the POTA movies were always skewing older in their appeal than Star Wars).  

 

To that end, I can't really think of a movie that took comparable risks with their established fanbase.  You can say that Snyder took some big chances making his "heroes" so brazenly unlikable, but in my estimation that is more of a misjudgment of what the audience will find cool than a deliberate risk.  I think he's trying to be crowd-pleasing, he's just got a terrible sense for the parts of the crowd that are younger than 12 or older than 15.

post #3545 of 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
 

Edwards had very little to do with the reshoots.  He was basically taken off the film. 

 

Of course the official story was he was supervising.  I never really bought it.  You don't reshoot basically more than 50% of a multi hundred million dollar film if everything is kosher.  Reshoots are about patching holes, not redoing entire chunks of the movie.  

post #3546 of 5253
remember the story about the editors piecing together a cut of this movie using scenes from other movies in order to time out how long scenes should even be before a script was started!

ohoho!

what a shoddy bwoll-less movie!!!
post #3547 of 5253
The BTS stuff is much more fun to talk about than the movie itself
post #3548 of 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

remember the story about the editors piecing together a cut of this movie using scenes from other movies in order to time out how long scenes should even be before a script was started!

ohoho!

what a shoddy bwoll-less movie!!!

 

That's the logical end result of them using other movies soundtracks when filming and then instructing the composer to 'make it sound like that'.

post #3549 of 5253
"your attempts to cobble together a workable movie... IT DIDN'T WOOORK, MY FRIIIEND!!!"

-MENDO!
post #3550 of 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

remember the story about the editors piecing together a cut of this movie using scenes from other movies in order to time out how long scenes should even be before a script was started!

ohoho!

what a shoddy bwoll-less movie!!!

I thought Edwards said that, and that took place before they even had a script.
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