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John Wick: CHAPTER 2 (2017) Post-Release Discussion Thread

post #1 of 186
Thread Starter 
If you liked the first, you'll probably like this.

It really expands upon and fully embraces the mythic and pulpy comic book elements from the first. And the storytelling maintains the crisp brutal simplicity of the first, despite lacking the immediate hook of "payback for taking my car and killing my dog".

But that's totally ok. I think it would be a mistake to try to 'top' that element with a sequel.  And while I think the villain in this movie is nowhere near as fun and essential as Nyqvist was in the first movie, the expansion of the rules and mythology (as well as the cast) of Wick's world makes up for it.  
post #2 of 186
I'm looking forward to checking this out tomorrow night. Are there any scenes that rival the awesome Red Circle setpiece in the 1st one?

Heard Chad Stahelski interviewed on the Chewing It podcast recently, and had no idea he was the one that doubled as Eric Draven following Brandon Lee's tragic death on The Crow. It turns out they were buddies in real life and he was chosen to complete the performance as he was very familiar w/ Brandon's body language and movements. Super driven and talented guy, really hope he gets to work w/ Rain again on John Wick Chapter 3.
post #3 of 186

Yeah, this was a lot of fun. Yes, the villain's not as good as Nyquist, but Common and Ruby Rose as the two main henchmen hunting John Wick are both seriously delightful. I don't think I've ever liked Common more as an actor than the last time we see him in this film - the expression on his face is so goddamn great and loony.

 

Keanu is Keanu. Fishburne devours his role like a delicious piece of hamsteak. The worldbuilding and supporting cast continue to be deliciously weird. And the action's great - bloody, darkly funny, and almost gleefully surreal, especially the big fight in the art museum.

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Seeing John Wick finally use a pencil was fucking awesome.

I will be fascinated to see what people think of the ending. I think it's delightful, but I have a feeling it may piss some plebes off.


Edited by Dent6084 - 2/8/17 at 11:55pm
post #4 of 186
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isao Kanemasa View Post

I'm looking forward to checking this out tomorrow night. Are there any scenes that rival the awesome Red Circle setpiece in the 1st one?

Heard Chad Stahelski interviewed on the Chewing It podcast recently, and had no idea he was the one that doubled as Eric Draven following Brandon Lee's tragic death on The Crow. It turns out they were buddies in real life and he was chosen to complete the performance as he was very familiar w/ Brandon's body language and movements. Super driven and talented guy, really hope he gets to work w/ Rain again on John Wick Chapter 3.

 

This movie has more than one that really goes for attempting to rival the Red Circle sequence.  My issue (and it really just is my issue) is that there's a limit to how much I can enjoy John Wick's headshot rampages.  As amazingly put together and badass as it all is, Wick is just SO unstoppable that I end up getting numb to such delights the longer they go on.  It's why the first John Wick wasn't a movie I couldn't really watch more than a few times.  With Wick, I enjoy the fighting and grappling stuff a little more.

 

Thankfully, there are so many more delights in this movie (similar to the first) beyond brutally efficient killing sprees.  But fans of the Red Circle sequence should be more than satisfied with what this movie offers.

 

It's funny that you just learned about Stahelski's connection to Brandon Lee just now, because I just randomly learned about it yesterday as well (the same night as the screening).  I was listening to the YOU MUST REMEMBER THIS episode on Bruce and Brandon Lee, and Stahelski's name came up.

 

"holy shit, no kidding??"

 

I also completely forgot that Proyas directed THE CROW.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dent6084 View Post
 

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Seeing John Wick finally use a pencil was fucking awesome.

I will be fascinated to see what people think of the ending. I think it's delightful, but I have a feeling it may piss some plebes off.

 
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
...a fuuuuucking.... pyeeeennnncilll....

I totally dug the ending.  Can't wait to see how Chapter 3 deals with it.


Edited by mcnooj82 - 2/9/17 at 12:21am
post #5 of 186
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I loved the growing paranoia of the ending. It was like John Wick had wandered into a '70s thriller where suddenly EVERYONE IS WATCHING HIM.

I think what helps leaven the headshots and keeps them from being repetitive is the loony, surreal sense of humor that underlines a lot of the action sequences in this film. How both the big showdowns with Common and Ruby Rose end definitely have that weird, nutball sensibility to them.

post #6 of 186
Thread Starter 

oh man... so many stairs

 

HUHHH!!  HWOOAAARGHHH!! GUUUUHHHH!!!

 

 

At some point during the movie, I whispered to my friend, "I guess there's no one in any big city that isn't an assassin..."

 

This movie definitely has a stronger ending than the first, which kinda whimpered to a close.  Because really, how excited does one get about a fight between Wick and Nyqvist?  That ending was more about tying up loose ends.  Chapter 2 really establishes a whole new status quo.

post #7 of 186

When I saw Common and Wick fighting at the top of those stairs, I knew someone was going down them.


AND THEN THERE WERE MORE STAIRS. AND MORE. I was positively howling with gleeful laughter.

post #8 of 186
I enjoyed it as a nice solid action movie. I loved the ending.
post #9 of 186

There were a few moments when I thought, "Why couldn't they have used the death of Tarasov from the first film to set up all this High Table stuff and get right to the meat," but that would have robbed us of the catacombs and Common and Ruby Rose and the stunning Claudia Gerini.  Besides, I'm pretty sure the movie I thought this was going to turn into is what Chapter 3 will be.

 

And 2017 has a lot of work ahead of it to top this as Line of the Year:

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
"Are you here for the Pope?"
post #10 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dent6084 View Post
  Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I loved the growing paranoia of the ending. It was like John Wick had wandered into a '70s thriller where suddenly EVERYONE IS WATCHING HIM.

 

 

There was also definitely a sense of, "Um, shit, I may have overdone it JUST a bit this time."

post #11 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
 

There were a few moments when I thought, "Why couldn't they have used the death of Tarasov from the first film to set up all this High Table stuff and get right to the meat," but that would have robbed us of the catacombs and Common and Ruby Rose and the stunning Claudia Gerini.  Besides, I'm pretty sure the movie I thought this was going to turn into is what Chapter 3 will be.

 

And 2017 has a lot of work ahead of it to top this as Line of the Year:

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
"Are you here for the Pope?"


I don't know if that line was in trailers or not - I deliberately avoided as much prerelease material as I could - but that was such a great gag, as was Keanu's utterly deadpan "....No" reaction.

post #12 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dent6084 View Post
 


I don't know if that line was in trailers or not - I deliberately avoided as much prerelease material as I could - but that was such a great gag, as was Keanu's utterly deadpan "....No" reaction.

 

What I loved about it was the absolutely serious sense of dread Nero had when he asked it.  Like there's some backstory where one day Wick might actually be there for that reason.

post #13 of 186

Enjoyed this a lot, though it didn't quite give me the same kind of giddy charge that Chapter 1 did.  But they really opened up the world, which I really dug.

 

I liked where they went w/ the ending.  Hopefully this means he'll go on the run to find shelter in a competing chain of Lotte Hotels in the Far East, run by Sonny Chiba.

 

I'm a big fan of Chad Stahelski's crisp and concise action direction.  Reminds me a bit of Korean action helmer Ryu Seung-Wan (City of Violence, Veteran, Berlin File), in the deft combination of gun, vehicular and hand to hand action.

 

The biggest laugh from my audience came when JW and Cassian were trading gunfire stealthily while walking parallel at different levels inside the crowded subway station.  I also dug the homage to the restaurant flower pot scene in A Better Tomorrow.

post #14 of 186
Thread Starter 
hahahah oh man the gentle trading of bullets as they stroll through the station

laughed so hard at that
post #15 of 186
I liked that one part where John Wick shot a dude in the head.

This was good, very good. It is a shane that it's impossible to recapture that surprise exhilaration and novelty the first movie gave you, but they were still successful at building on what was known. Lots of neat, varied action in cool locales-- I'm always a sucker for a hall of mirrors sequence. The whole thing was just really nifty to look at.

That ending was great, maybe too so. Because as much as I'd like to see another John Wick picture, finding out what happens next isn't going to improve on it. We'll see I guess.
post #16 of 186
Thread Starter 

during the montage of the Continental operators, I wanted them to cue up Kamen's track from BRAZIL

post #17 of 186

Thoroughly enjoyed it. If I have to knock it a bit I'd say that the action felt more repetitive in this outing. But that's bound to happen in the wake of the first film. Still very much appreciate the movie's novel idea of keeping the camera still.

 

Reeves is all kinds of fun again and the continued (under)world building on display is marvelous. Nero was a nice touch.

post #18 of 186
Thread Starter 

What I've loved about both movies is just how well they build that world on the go without much exposition.  Really, the only blatant exposition I can recall from either film is building the terrible legend of BABA YAGA, and both instances of those are delightful because Nyqvist and Stormare are just really fun when they're telling it.

 

The most delightful surprise I got in terms of worldbuilding was Wick tossing a coin into the cup of the homeless guy in the train station.  Then... PEW PEW.

post #19 of 186
Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

 

Stormare

 

Great use of him to open the film. Hope he resurfaces.

post #20 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moltisanti View Post
 

 

Great use of him to open the film. Hope he resurfaces.


Both he and Common have to show up again, right? I hope Common

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
still has that knife sticking out of his chest when he returns for Round 3 with John.
post #21 of 186
Thread Starter 

easiest paychecks for Leguizamo, these movies....

post #22 of 186
Whatever he made for GAMER was easier though.
post #23 of 186

Great, but a tad too long.  With an edit of about 10 minutes, this would be a nearly perfect movie.

post #24 of 186

My wife is right...you know what JW3 needs?

 

Statham.

post #25 of 186
Thread Starter 
I thought the same thing, but statham having been brought into expendables and fast/furious, I feel like this series shouldn't bow to that bit of stunt casting

Because I also thought that the Transporter (or whoever he was in Collateral) should be a part of this world.

Also Tom Cruise why not???
post #26 of 186

Honestly, with the world they've built up, they could just throw anyone at Keanu and I'd buy it. Statham, the Rock, Idris Elba, Arnold, Stallone, Bruce, Harrison Ford, Kelsey Grammer, Helen Mirren, Angelina Jolie, Dame Maggie Smith, Daniel Day-Lewis, Kanye West, Beyonce, Alec Baldwin, Melissa McCarthy as Sean Spicer. Bring 'em all on for the headshottin'.

post #27 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

I thought the same thing, but statham having been brought into expendables and fast/furious, I feel like this series shouldn't bow to that bit of stunt casting

Because I also thought that the Transporter (or whoever he was in Collateral) should be a part of this world.

Also Tom Cruise why not???

because tom cruise would ruin it. 

post #28 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

easiest paychecks for Leguizamo, these movies....

 

Not as easy as Bridget Moynahan.  

post #29 of 186
Thread Starter 
she shot new material for this!!!

FRESH!!!
post #30 of 186
I definitely do not want obvious tough guy casting like Statham or the Rock in these pictures. I like that they bring in more offbeat personalities in the vein of Common and tubby ol' Larry Fishburne.

True story, since I haven't been keeping up with the Fast and Furious series: I see the trailer for the latest one today and it's all like, "Dom Toretto has gone bad, and only ONE MAN can stop him." But then we get both Statham and the Rock being all like, "I'm the ONE MAN that can stop him, and isn't this all terribly badass, but we gotta work together!" And I'm all like, "What the fuck is even going on with these movies anymore, I haven't seen the last three, and I really just liked the first one that was a nifty riff on 'Point Break'"? That's what I'm all like.

So, no, I don't need them tricking up John Wick with the same kind of bullshit.
post #31 of 186
Thread Starter 
get John Hawkes in John Wick!

as his character from Winter's Bone
post #32 of 186

Timothy Dalton would be a fun add to the Wickiverse, I think.

 

I need to let this simmer a bit. Mostly loved it. Much stronger soundtrack than the first (no Marilyn Manson helps significantly). I think the Homecoming montage was probably my favourite sequence in the whole thing.

post #33 of 186

I had a total blast with this. Like it even more than the first. Ever time the 'shot to the head' approach would start to get repetitive, they'd mix it up with some clever editing (jumping between the sumo assassin, and the female violinist) or a new location to exploit (hall of mirrors).

 

And loved Peter Serafinowicz's deapan "Q"/gun supplier. He should pop up for a scene in whatever sequels are to come.

post #34 of 186

I wouldn't mind a quick Mel Gibson cameo in one of these.

 

"Wick."

"Porter."

post #35 of 186
It did occur to me that this is what a proper Parker movie series might look somewhat like-- not to take anything away from Payback and Point Blank (or The Outfit).

Ditto on the Serafinowicz scene. That got lots of laughs in my audience (totally filled with really old people, BTW, on a Friday afternoon.).
post #36 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim View Post

It did occur to me that this is what a proper Parker movie series might look somewhat like-- not to take anything away from Payback and Point Blank (or The Outfit).
Yeah, it's a bit like the Parker stories filtered through Hong Kong action cinema and comic books.
post #37 of 186
Now thats how you make a fucking sequel. I was terrified that JW2 would fuck everything I loved about the first film, but man John Wick 2 does exactly what a great sequel should do: it builds on what made the first movie so great, adds some new shit to the mix, and has an ending that completely dismantles the status quo and makes you want the next movie to come out yesterday.

Highlights:
1. Apparently John Wick just loves getting hit by cars (or out of them)
2 Also loves falling down stairs
3. I did like how Wick accrues Battle damge throughout the movie and still manages to wreck everyones shit
4. The whole Open contract montage was fun. And absolutely absurd in how many times Wick can get shot or stabbed and still get up
5.A FUCKING PENCIL
6. THE Mute assassin was pretty cool. Wished she made it out alive for a sequel. She was fun.
7. So, like, everyone is an AssAssin?
post #38 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

I wouldn't mind a quick Mel Gibson cameo in one of these.

"Wick."
"Porter."

And now i need this in my life.
post #39 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
 

I wouldn't mind a quick Mel Gibson cameo in one of these.

 

"Wick."

"Porter."

 

Could easily see Gibson in the next film as a guy who was excommunicated years ago that aids Reeves.

 

Folks I'd like to see as assassins in the next film:

 

Adkins

Iko Uwais

Geno Segers (AKA "Chayton")

Sasha Banks

Joe Pantoliano

post #40 of 186
Gotta get Joey Pants in there.
post #41 of 186
Thread Starter 
most definitely!

eyyyyyy
post #42 of 186
Thread Starter 
I want Smug Knife Man the the raid 2 kitchen FIGHT!
post #43 of 186

The visuals may have been my favorite part of this.  It felt like they were trying to do as many variations on "colored neon lights in a dark room" as possible.  Even switched it up a little with "colored neon lights in a white room" for the subway sequence.

post #44 of 186

https://www.visu.info/john-wick-2-kill-count/

Excellent breakdown of all of Wick's kills. 

post #45 of 186

Considering how this series has been the spiritually good sequels to The Matrix, it'd make sense for Hugo Weaving or Carrie-Anne Moss to show up. Not type-cast, obviously, but Weaving as a bitter old drunk or something would be money.

 

This movie reminded me how much I missed the Q and M scenes over in Bond. Any one of the Craig movies could've used a 'here's your gadgets, here's your guns, here's the intel, go to it" montage like this movie has.

post #46 of 186
Thread Starter 
get the architect to come back again!

as an actual architect!
post #47 of 186

Saw this last night. After 12 hours to process, some thoughts.

 

Overall, a solidly good sequel. They didn't remake the first film to their credit, and they also went for a different hook to keep John in the game - which also allowed them to continue to worldbuild. I think the film's best accomplishment is making Wick the true underdog in a way he wasn't in the first film. He was still John Wick, the Boogeyman.....but suddenly nearly the whole world was hunting him, and sheer numbers alone mean that's going to be a challenge for our hero.

 

Like the first film, the movie doesn't try to be more than it is while also successfully claiming more narrative space for itself. 

 

I loved Wick's scream of rage when picking up his backup kit. The character is a really closed off guy, which fits both the genre, actor, and tone, so the few times we see John get frazzled have impact.

 

More McShane! Always a good thing.

 

Another smart thing the film does: matching that closed-off personality with more colorful figures. Giving Wick characters like Winston and the Bowery King to bounce off keeps things interesting when Wick's not shooting people.

 

LOVED Cassian and Wick casually shooting at each other in the airport. I cackled! 

 

The entire sequence with Gianna was pretty great, from every standpoint. It was a great hint at the amazing camera work with mirrors to come, as well. 

 

...which brings us to the Reflections of the Soul sequence. It felt like the film both amazed us with the use of mirrors but also didn't make a big deal out of it. Packed with "How are they getting this shot without seeing the camera in the mirror?" shots it was also just a great action sequence. Again, continuing the tension of Wick as the master assassin but also the hunted underdog. 

 

I also get the feeling there was a bit more thematic work being done in this film: we open with John being squeezed because of unbreakable rules, and bowing to them. We end with John breaking a cardinal rule, and shattering his entire world because of it.

 

And this may sound like a criticism but it's not: calling this Chapter 2 was PERFECT. Because with these two films, it does very much feel like the visualization of a gleefully pulp story. Chapter 1 introduces the main character and the world. Chapter 2 dives deeper. Chapter 3 appears to be when the shit really gets real.

 

 

But now a few things on the negative side:

 

The entire opening sequence felt unnecessary. The film could've easily opened with Santino coming to collect the marker. Maybe the opening was to get newcomers up to speed? Opening with action that's apparently pretty much right after the first film wasn't expected and confused me at first. I think the point was to show newcomers (and/or perhaps folks less rabidly in love with the first film) what John's background and inciting incident was. But it still felt sort of tacked on.

 

....relating to that: we get the set up that Aurelio will fix John's car....and then that's left unresolved.

 

Overall, the music and song choices felt less effective than the first film. This song works well in the film but there was nothing on par with the Marilyn Manson song or Kaelida's "Think" from the first film.

 

During the museum/mirror sequence, Wick TWICE does not pick up guns from the men he's killed despite constantly running low on bullets. This seems especially weird since otherwise the film makes it a clear point to show us when Wick claims clips and guns from his defeated foes.

 

~~~~

 

Those nitpicks aside, I'm already looking forward to owning this and watching both films in a row!

post #48 of 186
Sure. You didnt need that entire first sequence but......


Who gives a shit? It was cool.
post #49 of 186

Sure, except....one of the things we've praised the first film is for its economy: nothing wasted, no padding. Opening the film with a sequence that's entirely unnecessary feels like a move in the opposite direction established by the first film.

post #50 of 186
The thing is....John Wick 2 is about the padding. Whereas JW1 was a lean, mean revenge film, JW 2 is all about the world building: they are rwo completely different beasts. So yes...that entire prologue serves as nothing more than reintroduction of Wick, but i go right back to not giving a shit because its fucking awesome. Worth it alone just to here Stromare scream A FUCKING PENCIL.
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