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Joss Whedon's BATGIRL - Page 2

post #51 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

I heard my name! 

 

Whole lot of questionable (and some good) defenses for questionable artistic decisions being made that we're talking about elsewhere, so let's get into the female director issue:

 

How much money did Safety Not Guaranteed make before they gave Trebberow Jurassic World? How was he a safe choice?

 

Skull Island cost 185 times more what Kings of Summer made at the box office, but nobody had a problem handing that to Vogt-Roberts. What about him wasn't a gamble?

 

What about Scott Derickson's directorial history suggested he'd be a good fit for Doctor Strange?

 

James Gunn was directing short films with porn stars before they gave him Guardians. His biggest project before Guardians was Slither, which was a flop (12 million against a 15 million budget). But yeah, he was a real smart choice. 

 

And that's not getting into the most brilliant choice of them all, Z-Snyd himself, who barely made money for the studios on Sucker Punch. Not a risk at all there.

 

And yet...and yet...we insist women make successful movies in order to be given shots at these big projects. "Lexi Alexander hasn't made good movies! Lake Bell's untested! Michelle MacLaren is only good on tv!" 

 

If you look at this list, there are countless examples of people with similar backgrounds to Trebberow, Vogt-Roberts, and Derrickson who haven't been given the shots those guys have, and when you have that, it's real hard not to think there's something going on. 

 

Gimme a break. Cannot wait for Wrinkle in Time to eat everyone's lunch and prove this bullshit, reductive, sexist trope wrong. 

 

Shannon Purser for Batgirl, says I. 

Good point.  I(and investors) would still take a Joss Whedon Batgirl over a male/female unknown directors Batgirl, though.  

post #52 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post


Re-railing: Am I interested in a Batgirl film? No, not especially. Like Batwoman, War Machine, Kid Flash and so on, I think you dilute the uniqueness of your primary character by hitching them to characters who are just like them but "different". When you have two or more characters running around dressed like a bat, it just muddies the waters.

 

So... Batgirl and Batwoman AREN'T the same person?

 

I'm starting to suspect I may not be the target audience for this project...

post #53 of 146
Batwoman is a cool character with a unique background (she's a lesbian and ex-marine) with her own distinct methods and rogues gallery.

Yet she still has red hair and when standing next to Batgirl the two could easily be confused for one another.
post #54 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
 

 If we're fan casting what woman director should have gotten the gig, I'd go with Kathryn Bigelow. She has an Oscar and has made  entertaining action movies with good characters.

"Scene 1: Batgirl gets on a plane and goes to Iraq..."

post #55 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by avian View Post
 

"Scene 1: Batgirl gets on a plane and goes to Iraq..."


In the sequel Batgirl goes after the bank robbers know as The Ex-Presidents.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Its turns out the Ex-Presidents are surfers.
post #56 of 146
Thread Starter 

"Sources tell EW that this version will be Barbara Gordon, daughter of Commissioner Gordon, and the movie will use the DC Comics 'New 52' version of the character as a starting point.

 

In that timeline, launched in 2011, Barbara Gordon has recovered from a paralyzing spinal injury notoriously inflicted on her by the Joker in the 1988 graphic novel The Killing Joke. In the earlier books, that damage confined her to a wheelchair and ended her flying, swinging, punching career as Batgirl — but she continued to fight the good fight under the name Oracle as a super-hacker.

 

The New 52 books feature her several years after the Joker attack, having recovered full mobility after experimental surgery, although she is still haunted by the near-death experience."

 

http://ew.com/movies/2017/03/30/joss-whedon-batgirl-movie-barbara-gordon/

post #57 of 146
Soooo...lots of Jared Leto flashbacks.
post #58 of 146
This is exactly what I can't tolerate about DC/WB. The deluge of non news and speculation about a movie 3 years away from being released.

It's just been announced. I bet they fell all over themselves to announce Joss Whedon as a director before a script has even been finished. Now we already know what silly universe version of Batgirl it's going to be?

Like, relax.
post #59 of 146
I can't decide if I want this movie or joss's eventual Star Wars movie more.
post #60 of 146

Although I'm not a fan of The Killing Joke, the New 52 using it as an origin is a good starting point.

 

Basically Barbara is about 21, in grad school (being a genius, she started college at 16) and has only been mobile again for a short time. She was shot by the Joker about 3-4 years prior. Her main source of conflict during Simone's run is her younger brother James Jr. who is a crazy serial killer.

 

This all means more JK Simmons as Commissioner Gordon (who perhaps had retired after the events of TKJ but is now back?), and that's always a good thing.

post #61 of 146

I dislike Killing Joke as well, but I do like that set-up. Minus the JGJ stuff, which has always felt like a retread of Dexter's first season for some reason. Because I'm stupid. That's the reason. 

post #62 of 146

This is when Batman's 20-year time frame becomes a little odd. I suppose Batman could've been on his own for a decade before Dick became Robin, but that seems a little excessive...

 

Point being, Barbara needs to be around college age or the GIRL in Batgirl will seem a little strange. No 30-year-old is calling themselves Batgirl. 

post #63 of 146
Does she have any unique villains in the latest comic run people seem to like?Or are we just going to get some d-level Batman villains people just sorta know?
post #64 of 146

If it's drawing on that particular run, it'll probably be James Gordon Jr.

post #65 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

This is when Batman's 20-year time frame becomes a little odd. I suppose Batman could've been on his own for a decade before Dick became Robin, but that seems a little excessive...

 

Point being, Barbara needs to be around college age or the GIRL in Batgirl will seem a little strange. No 30-year-old is calling themselves Batgirl. 

post #66 of 146

Batgirl doesn't have a ton of iconic villains of her own, mostly because Barbara being back in the costume was for the first time in 30 years so it's almost from scratch.

 

Gail Simone's run has a few valiant attempts. There's Mirror, who reflects people's sins back on them and James Gordon Jr. But for the five volumes she wrote there were also crossovers with the other batbooks for The Court of Owls and Death of the Family, with the latter having her finally confront the Joker.

 

The Batgirl of Burnside run, which I'm sure will have some influence on the movie as well, also failed to really nail the villains. There's a Batgirl impersonator that turns out to be a transvestite (something the creators received some harsh criticism for), Jim Gordon in a Batman mech suit, and a duo of motorcycle-riding Tron-like villains.

 

The best is a repurposing of the idea of Oracle, revealing that Barbara had created an algorithm when she was in a wheelchair that could stop crime through surveillance and profiling, but it mutates into an artificial intelligence that hates Barbara, kind of a weaponized version of her depression when she was disabled. 

 

I'm thinking Joss will, for lack of source material, have some combination of Joker, James Jr. and new creations with maybe shoutouts or complete reconfigurations of comic book villains. I would say characters like Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy and Catwoman would be givens, but they're getting their own movie with Gotham City Sirens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomTastic View Post
 

 

Yeah, well...

post #67 of 146
"Batgirl Year One" made pretty good use of Killer Moth. That series would be a good basis for a movie just in general as far as I'm concerned.

I haven't read any New 52 stuff so I don’t know how it compares. But it does seem like setting things post-injury (and post Oracle?) for Barbara is packing in a lot of career. I can see giving us a late-career Batman in BvS because there are so many Batman movies, but Batgirl doesn't have that kind of familiarity. WB just don't seem to want to take the time and care to actually introduce any of these characters.

I imagine there are probably some "Birds of Prey" era villains that can be used... Reminds me I'd almost rather have a "Birds of Prey" movie. That would have a certain amount of overlap with "Gotham City Sirens", too.

Like I suggested upthread, seeing Whedon and David Ayer thrash out who gets to use which character and possible crossovers (during a lunch taking place only in my mind) would probably be pretty funny.
post #68 of 146
I keep thinking that sometime today someone is gonna finally expose this as a hoax. This is maybe THE most uninteresting sounding upcoming comic related film that I've heard of. I'm VASTLY uninterested in it (so far). Not a Whedon fan (that's not to say I DISlike him....just indifferent. Though I like both of his Avengers movies greatly). And, even though I'm a HUGE Batman fan....this...does nothing for me. I guess that why I liked Nolan's films so much. It took a version of Batman that is probably my favorite in any medium thus far and gave us a set of films totally about just HIM...with no Robin (well almost no Robin) or Batgirl or Bat-family nonsense. Just Batman...alone...facing the most famous of his Rogues Gallery.

Admittedly, it won't take a whole hell of a lot to begin getting me excited for this. Good casting and one slick trailer is about all it'd take. But until then?*shrugs*
post #69 of 146
Bless your gentle heart, Fraid! That's the closest I've ever seen you come to dissing something sight unseen. And even then you can't really go through with it.

I wish more people had your even keel.
post #70 of 146
Ha! I'm just not interested in Batgirl like AT ALL as of right now. But it's more than possible for a good looking trailer to change that. I'm always open. It's like that new Pirates of the Caribbean movie. The thought of another one of those just bores me....but if I was actually sat down watching it, I'd probably find quite a bit to like about it and at least be glad I saw it..
post #71 of 146

Here's the thing about Batgirl: she's not female Batman. That's Batwoman, actually, who like I said above is a badass ex-marine.

 

No, Batgirl is really more like Spider-Man if anything. She's fun loving and adventurous, usually rushing headfirst into action with a grin on her face. She's also quick to use her smarts and apply them to a situation. 

 

Chuck Dixon understood this with Batgirl: Year One:

 

 

And the recent Batgirl of Burnside run understood this:

 

 

She doesn't have anger management issues. She doesn't strike fear into the heart of criminals. She just has a big heart and wants to help. Her PTSD from The Killing Joke is something she uses as motivation and overcomes it by being the better person. 

 

So if that doesn't sound like it's up your alley, maybe they'll get around to the Cassandra Cain body language-reading trained assassin Batgirl, or militant Batwoman. 

 

But I am mighty pleased that Barbara has a chance, with Whedon, of being done justice.

post #72 of 146
If that's the character's personality then Whedon seems to be a good fit for the material.

The Nolan films (and even BvS to an extent) are my preferred takes on the character(s) but I'm by no means AGAINST movies that are lighter in tone. I prefer Batman to lean a little darker but TDK trilogy is about as dark as I'd personally ever care for it to be. There should never be R rated Batman. That's just a juvenile notion. But tone aside, first and foremost....I just want the movies to be GOOD. If it's a super-light and cheerful take on Batman and it's a good movie, that's great. So....if Batgirl ends up being good then yeah...bring it on.

I've started wondering if this came to be because Affleck really is wanting to jump ship and WB is panicking because they realize they need a Bat character from and center in JL but they don't want to (or can't) recast Batman just yet..
Edited by Fraid uh noman - 4/1/17 at 11:18am
post #73 of 146
Yeah, the idea of Millennial Batgirl is pretty great. That's why I'm optimistic about the Whedon angle.

post #74 of 146
Thread Starter 
post #75 of 146
I'm about as interested in a Batgirl film as I am a Robin film. Which is to say, not at all.

I'm still waiting for an original female hero to be launched that isn't in the shadow of some male predecessor. Kill Bill was a great example.
post #76 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

I'm about as interested in a Batgirl film as I am a Robin film. Which is to say, not at all.

I'm still waiting for an original female hero to be launched that isn't in the shadow of some male predecessor. Kill Bill was a great example.

 

Awesome. Wow. 

 

Also, Kill Bill is all about escaping the shadow of your male predecessor.

post #77 of 146

*stands in the corner being the only one unabashedly excited for Whedon's Batgirl*

post #78 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

 

Awesome. Wow. 

 

Also, Kill Bill is all about escaping the shadow of your male predecessor.

I thought Kill Bill was about the consequences of a couple not seeing eye to eye on having a child.*

 

*I refuse to let go of my "Why the hell didnt Beatrix just told Bill she was pregnant with his child?" complain about the movie.

post #79 of 146

I thought Kill Bill was about a Superman metaphor that made millions of angry nerds cry out with, "Well, actually..."

post #80 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

I thought Kill Bill was about a Superman metaphor that made millions of angry nerds cry out with, "Well, actually..."

Kill Bill is Tarantine indulging into his cinematic fetishes and fanboy worship of Chiba films and their like.

Its striking visually and entertaining, but it has no depth or sense whatsoever.

And that's perfectly fine; it doesnt make it a bad film on any level; a filmaker indulging in his fantasies and homages can make for great entertainment.

post #81 of 146
Kill bill is about the very obvious consequences of breaking the heart of a murdering bastard.

You hear me Frido Bradito?
post #82 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

Kill bill is about the very obvious consequences of breaking the heart of a murdering bastard.

You hear me Frido Bradito?

I like your take on it, but lets remember that the person doing the breaking was a murdering bitch, so it all balances out.

Its basically a PSA about how if you are an assassin, crime lord or murdering bastard/bitch, you should never have kids or unwanted pregnancies.*

*Or, if you are the head of the murdering bastards organization, have clearly designated guidelines for maternity leave.

 

I think the movie's mistery of who Bill truly is ends up as it main plothole/weakness; had the movie clearly showed Bill as the murdering bastard he was previously to the attack on the church, that would made Beatrix running away from him after discovering she was pregnant make sense (specially because of the movie showing that Verdita was able to leave her murder days behind and raise a normal family).

Its Tarantino choosing style over substance, and thats okay.

Just dont go thinking it has any depth to it, beyond two horrible, murdering but stylish people's relationship crisis ending up causing a lot of death.

post #83 of 146

I've made this argument before, but I've always thought this guy:

 

 

who kills O-Ren Ishii's father during the anime flashback is supposed to be Bill. The sword and the emphasis on the ring and hair always screamed BILL to me.

 

It would be a nice bit of irony. But strangely the movie never comes back to this guy. And I've never been able to convince anyone of my theory.

post #84 of 146

I've heard that argument too.

 

Kelly Fremont Craig should direct Batgirl. 

post #85 of 146

Nothing in her CV says "costumed superhero movie director" to me. Not that it should automatically disqualify her, as plenty of male indie darling/one movie only directors have gotten bigger gigs.

 

 

EDIT - I typo'd by writing"make" before instead of "male".


Edited by neil spurn - 4/5/17 at 6:45am
post #86 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

I've made this argument before, but I've always thought this guy:

 

 

who kills O-Ren Ishii's father during the anime flashback is supposed to be Bill. The sword and the emphasis on the ring and hair always screamed BILL to me.

 

It would be a nice bit of irony. But strangely the movie never comes back to this guy. And I've never been able to convince anyone of my theory.

As far as I know, that character was called "Pretty Rikki" by the animation staff and there were plans for an extended sequence showing O-Ren hinting him down and killing him that was never animated; also, plenty of people say that the sword not having Hanzo's markings and style shows that its not Bill.

Ive really never buyed into that theory, but its a good one still.

post #87 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil spurn View Post
 

Nothing in her CV says "costumed superhero movie director" to me. Not that it should automatically disqualify her, as plenty of make indie darling/one movie only directors have gotten bigger gigs.

 

Trebberow. Safety Not Guaranteed to Jurassic World.

 

Vogt-Roberts. Kings of Summer to Kong: Skull Island. 

 

Favreau. Swingers and Elf to Iron Man. 

 

I'm just going to keep posting examples every time this argument comes up. 

post #88 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

 

Trebberow. Safety Not Guaranteed to Jurassic World.

 

Vogt-Roberts. Kings of Summer to Kong: Skull Island. 

 

Favreau. Swingers and Elf to Iron Man. 

 

I'm just going to keep posting examples every time this argument comes up. 

Russo Brothers? From Community, You, Me and Dupree to handling both Cap films AND Infinity War? pretty big jump there.

post #89 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

 

Trebberow. Safety Not Guaranteed to Jurassic World.

 

Vogt-Roberts. Kings of Summer to Kong: Skull Island. 

 

Favreau. Swingers and Elf to Iron Man. 

 

I'm just going to keep posting examples every time this argument comes up. 

 


Re-read my post, good sir. I was actually agreeing with you on that sentiment.

 

 

Also, Favreau did not direct Swingers.  His path was Made to Elf (a surprisingly big hit!) to Zathura (a CGI space adventure!) to IM 1 followed by, um, Cowboys and Aliens, to IM 2, to...  I can't remember, to the live action Jungle Book last year (another big hit). 

post #90 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil spurn View Post
 

 


Re-read my post, good sir. I was actually agreeing with you on that sentiment.

 

 

Also, Favreau did not direct Swingers.  His path was Made to Elf (a surprisingly big hit!) to Zathura (a CGI space adventure!) to IM 1 followed by, um, Cowboys and Aliens, to IM 2, to...  I can't remember, to the live action Jungle Book last year (another big hit). 

 

Sorry. It's still early. 

post #91 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
 

As far as I know, that character was called "Pretty Rikki" by the animation staff and there were plans for an extended sequence showing O-Ren hinting him down and killing him that was never animated; also, plenty of people say that the sword not having Hanzo's markings and style shows that its not Bill.

Ive really never buyed into that theory, but its a good one still.


In my headcanon he will remain Biiiiiiiiilllllllllllllllll

post #92 of 146
Will DC/WB even allow weedin' to make the movie he wants to make? Or will they blunder this up like everything else?
post #93 of 146

Most likely blunder it.

post #94 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

I thought Kill Bill was about a Superman metaphor that made millions of angry nerds cry out with, "Well, actually..."

 

I thought Beatrix simply didn't want her child to grow up in a world full of murders, and wanted her to have a normal healthy childhood. Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Will DC/WB even allow weedin' to make the movie he wants to make? Or will they blunder this up like everything else?

While hiring Whedon has gotten my attention, I do wonder if the movie will be good or even get made. I keep seeing that DC/WB is announcing several movies, but they still haven't made a good movie yet. The Aquaman movie keeps getting pushed back and they can't find a director for The Flash.

post #95 of 146

At the moment it's really only Gotham City Sirens, The Batman and Batgirl that have creative teams, and Man of Steel 2 with Matthew Vaughn rumored.

 

I have no doubt that some of the more repetitive projects, like Suicide Squad 2 and Nightwing, will end up getting folded into one of the above. A Flash movie probably depends on if the character is a big hit in JL.

post #96 of 146
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Will DC/WB even allow weedin' to make the movie he wants to make? Or will they blunder this up like everything else?

 

With Geoff Johns Feige-ing the post-Snyder films, it really looks like Warner Bros. is getting its DCEU shit together. Word on the street is they got Matt Reeves and Joss Whedon on board and are attracting the likes of Mel Gibson, Matthew Vaughn and Aaron Sorkin precisely because of the level of creative freedom they're offering.

post #97 of 146

I can think of few things I want less out of movies than Aaron Sorkin writing a DC superhero movie. Who the fuck would he even write?

post #98 of 146

AARON SORKIN'S JUSTICE LEAGUE

In which we learn that Aquaman is never, ever sick at sea.

post #99 of 146

AARON SORKIN'S BATWOMAN

 

in which we learn that she's the top of her field, a crime-fighting heroine and bad-ass marine...

 

...who doesn't know how to walk in heels or text a man

post #100 of 146

MY BATMAAAAAN HAS RETURNED TO MEEEE

 

BtpEojXCcAAdpZE.jpg 

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