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The Wheel of Time

post #1 of 48
Thread Starter 

So it looks like the epic 14 book Robert Jordan book series is being adapted to TV, which is great.  The bad news is Agent of Shield and Hemlock Grove guy is show running :(

 

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2017/04/20/wheel-of-time-tv-series-sets-showrunner-production-studio

 

I have the first audio book on my phone...  But man.  It's such generic Tolkien riff stuff that I don't know if I'll be able to truly find my angle into it.  Anyone a big Wheel of Time fan here?

post #2 of 48

I've read the entire thing and I will never read it again. That being said, they need a big budget for this show since there's a lot of battles, creatures and magic use along with some epic setpieces. The first six books would take at least six seasons of at least 12 hour+ episodes to tell in a decent fashion. Oh and hire Brandon Sanderson to oversee the scripts and the story bible.

post #3 of 48
Thread Starter 

My concern is from the sounds of the show runner etc they will not be putting Game of Thrones money into this.

post #4 of 48

I used to be such a fan of this series until it finally got too bloated and overwrought for me to take anymore. To say that there's a shit-ton of stuff that can be cut out is an understatement. The first 6 books are great, but after that it goes off into the weeds. I swear that out of the last 8 books, at least half were complete plot wheel-spinning (no pun intended).

post #5 of 48

Yeah, those books had stuff happening in them but not happening at the same time. How do you write thick ass books about nothing at all?

post #6 of 48
Man, I gassed out of this at book 6 or 7 in the very early 2000's. Ugh.
post #7 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil spurn View Post

Man, I gassed out of this at book 6 or 7 in the very early 2000's. Ugh.

 

It took me three years to read the whole thing. That's because I had to take breaks during those wheel-spinning books to read some exciting stuff then go back to the WoT.

post #8 of 48
Thread Starter 

Was it worth it?

post #9 of 48

Really surprising that Red Eagle is still involved with this after that bullshit fake pilot stunt they pulled. I'm not sure how well most of it can translate to a visual medium. The way that magic works in this world is super complex.

 

Also disappointed that people keep looking at this as the next potential Game of Thrones when Melanie Rawn's Dragon Prince and Dragon Star trilogies are a way better fit. 6 books, very little filler (in fact there's quite a bit of room to expand), lots of court intrigue and war and sex and dragons and magic.

post #10 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 

Was it worth it?

 

Yes it was. It's a fully realized and complex world that you get lost in but 14 books is far too much even for me. The first six books are great, the five middle books could have been condensed into two thick volumes before proceeding on with the last three books of the series. They could cut/fold in stuff from those books into each other to streamline the TV show...if it ever does get greenlit to series.

 

You only need to read it once though.

post #11 of 48
As the guy who's read 17 of the 40+ Horus Heresy books I have no right to judge anyone for reading and enjoying this. But I could never even get into the first book of WoT. Just did nothing for me.

So I was kind of hoping a tv series would work better in getting me hooked. But with that showrunner...I dunno man.
post #12 of 48
Thread Starter 

There's 40 Warhammer 40k books?  There cannot possibly be that many.

 

I want to get into 40K, but the scale of it freaks me out.  Not the amount of content, but the literal scale of the world.  The idea that a world of billions being killed and it means absolutely nothing, the God Emperor eating 1000 Physics a day.  It makes me queasy for some reason the complete and total disregard for life.     

post #13 of 48
Well, 42 of the Horus Heresy books which is technically 30k and a prequel series. There's WAY more than that of the various 40k series.

If you want to start on them, I'll gladly recommend Dan Abnett's Gaunt's Ghosts series. It's 12 books so far but they are breezy reads and basically sci-fi Band of Brothers. Or Abnett's Eisenhorn Trilogy which is also fucking awesome.

Your not wrong about the world. There is a reason the word GRIMDARK was derived from 40k. I mean, their version of Space travel involves opening a literal tear in reality and taking a shortcut through hell. But that's what makes it awesome. In the face of all this eternal darkness to find tales of abject heroism and never saying die. That's what I get out of 40k.
post #14 of 48
Thread Starter 
You see that I could see me pulling into the world. If you had some characters I could get invested in, and maybe they have some wins here and there.

I bet when Dawn of war 3 comes out I'll adore it and dive into the LOOOORE.
post #15 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

You see that I could see me pulling into the world. If you had some characters I could get invested in, and maybe they have some wins here and there.

Definitely Gaunt's Ghosts then.
post #16 of 48
Thread Starter 
What about the eisenhorn stuff?
post #17 of 48
Not quite as uplifting as GG at it's best. More of a spy thriller than the war film vibe of Ghosts. The plot of the trilogy revolves around an Inquisitor and his rise and fall. Gets pretty grim but in a very compelling manner.

Personally I like the cast of characters in Gaunt's Ghosts more. But Eisenhorn is still well worth your time.

And I haven't even touched on Space Marine stories lol.
post #18 of 48

This quote from the Variety story left me with mixed emotions:

 

Quote:
Red Eagle partners Rick Selvage and Larry Mondragon will executive produce along with Radar’s Ted Field and Mike Weber.  

 

First off, Red Eagle?  Again?  After that shit show they pulled to keep the rights?  Ugh.  BUT, it looks like they are just Executive Producing, which I hope means they just get to have their name on the credits, and that's it.  And while the fanboy name of Red Eagle is slightly annoying, it doesn't hold a candle to 'Larry Mondragon'.  Jesus Christ, really?  I wouldn't want anyone who was that big of a fanboy, enough to change their last name to a character from the books, to be anywhere near the project.  I think my stomach started hurting when I saw his name.

 

But really I doubt this ever goes anywhere.

post #19 of 48
Thread Starter 
I'm having a hard time picturing what this will be. Low budget Lord of the Rings the television show?

If so where do you shoot it? What are the trollics? Practical?
post #20 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

You see that I could see me pulling into the world. If you had some characters I could get invested in, and maybe they have some wins here and there.

 

Have you ever read Glen Cook's Black Company series? Now THAT is a book series that should be made in a TV show.

post #21 of 48

I've read the books, and have been a fan of the series since I got hooked as a 13-year old.  My perspective about a TV adaptation has always been that it should be animated.  Not that it should be geared for kids, but that having it be animated would make it cheaper and easier to include tons of characters and effects.  It would also allow the complex magic, that has been mentioned above, the ability to take up the large role that it deserves.

 

The monsters, battles, magic, and what would be beautifully complex sets would just be so expensive and hard to render outside of an animated medium, IMO.

post #22 of 48

Apparently some years back they were going to do an anime of it.  I think it fell through because the studio only wanted to do the first three books, and Jordan wasn't pleased with that idea.

 

Speaking of, didn't they do a comic series of the first book?  Did they ever go beyond book one with that?

post #23 of 48
Thread Starter 
Not that I have found re the comics.

I would love the avatar Korea guys to have a stab at this series.
post #24 of 48

It actually might work better as an American anime show ala KORRA because if they do try to do this live it will be very expensive to realize.

post #25 of 48

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/250x250/59320615/billy-zane-zoolander-fans-wait-13-books-and-25-years-for-a-movie-they-get-billy-zane.jpg 

post #26 of 48
Thread Starter 
The ideal lex luthor!
post #27 of 48
They should retitle it Timewheel so it sounds like a Jean-Claude Van Damme movie.
post #28 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headless Fett View Post
 

It actually might work better as an American anime show ala KORRA because if they do try to do this live it will be very expensive to realize.

This is actually the best idea. Especially since WoT is actually kind of sex-less. Sex happens, but it's always 'off-screen.' The books always shift perspective to somewhere else before things become explicit, or come into scenes after the fact.

post #29 of 48

Yeah I don't see how you do a first season that features a smoke monster attacking half human half animal monsters in an abandoned city HALFWAY THROUGH THE SEASON and not the finale without either A) blowing millions on a show that probably not a lot of people will watch or B) just animate the damn thing.

post #30 of 48
Easy: people in fursuits and a fog machine.
post #31 of 48
I just started reading the series based on some recommedations from the people i work with say great things about it. Funny enough, i was just thinking about why there hasent a show based on those books.
post #32 of 48
Dude, you are in for a fucking hard slog. And I say that as someone who liked the characters and story.

But it ends up with a cast of thousands and a half-dozen Deus Ex Machinae per book that make GOT look tightly constructed.
post #33 of 48
Shit.
post #34 of 48
I'm not trying to piss in the cornflakes, but you should know that Jordan died and the series was finished by someone else, someone who conspired with the publisher to split the finale into three more books.

So basically they DUNE 7'd it.
post #35 of 48

Except, unlike Dune 7, the three-book finale is absolutely amazing work, and large sections of it were actually written by Jordan himself before he died (a big chunk of it back in late '80s, in fact). And unlike the twin hacks Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson, who are busy raping and retooling Frank Herbert's vision to fit their own corporate, Star Wars-ripoff annual factory assembly-line cash-in fanfiction, Brandon Sanderson did a pretty spectacular job of not only bringing Jordan's own plotlines to a satisfying conclusion, but also of seamlessly blending his own prose with Jordan's.

 

If Sanderson wanted to take a crack at another Wheel of Time book on his own someday, I'd totally buy it day one (except Jordan's widow doesn't seem very keen on any continuations, which I also completely respect).

post #36 of 48
I'll defer to you since I never made it to the end. I loved the world-building, but I didn't Eleven Thousand pages love it.

When you say Sanderson matches Jordan's prose, does that extend to the costume porn? That was one of the filler elements I had particular trouble with.

I will say I enjoyed the device of inserting cryptic mystery box nuggets into the character lists in the appendices.
post #37 of 48

Man, there is a lot of fat that could've been trimmed from the final three books. And I'm pretty sure would've been if Jordan had been alive to write them. And Mat's characterization suffers a lot from 'he's my favourite character-itis.'

post #38 of 48
Well, the core group of protagonists are like a Legion of Almost Mary Sues, and their coolness factor radiates outward in a wave until even tertiary characters gain a Boba Fett shine to them.
post #39 of 48

For my money, despite being three books, those final three ironically picked up the pacing to an incredible degree, compared to the last couple of Jordan-penned novels -- I absolutely flew through them. Even the scenes where Rand confronts the Dark One were quite compelling and interesting; the plot got pared down to its essentials in those final books.

post #40 of 48
Am I to understand that
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The ending is cribbed from The Matrix? What I've read about has the hero die, live again, die again, live again again and gain the power to live outside either side of the conflict by shaping the fabric of reality.

I don't mind stealing when you steal from the best, I guess. After all, the Seanchan invasion is a clever rewrite of the Return of the Clans narrative from the Battletech universe. And it wouldn't be a fantasy finale without somebody's apotheosis.

I know it doesn't sound like it, but I do have affection for this series. It just wore me down. Right now, I'd rather kill an hour sifting through lore on the WOT wiki than reading the genuine article.
post #41 of 48

The thing is that there's a lot of great material for a TV series if it's handled well and after GoT that's going to be a hard act to follow.

post #42 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Slim View Post

Am I to understand that Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The ending is cribbed from The Matrix? What I've read about has the hero die, live again, die again, live again again and gain the power to live outside either side of the conflict by shaping the fabric of reality.

I don't mind stealing when you steal from the best, I guess. After all, the Seanchan invasion is a clever rewrite of the Return of the Clans narrative from the Battletech universe. And it wouldn't be a fantasy finale without somebody's apotheosis.

I know it doesn't sound like it, but I do have affection for this series. It just wore me down. Right now, I'd rather kill an hour sifting through lore on the WOT wiki than reading the genuine article.

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The ending was written back in 1988/89, long before The Matrix -- Robert Jordan actually wrote most of the Last Battle stuff (and the final chapter) back when he originally wrote The Eye of the World, and he knew exactly how the series would end. It was just 25 years before we finally got to read those chapters, at last.
post #43 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headless Fett View Post
 

I've read the entire thing and I will never read it again.

If you read the first three as a trilogy (as it was meant to be) then they totally hold up. I read them every year or so.

 

This has potential. It's got great world building, characters, and a very cinematic story. You just need someone who is going to murder the shit out of the books and refine them into a tighter story.

post #44 of 48

It was never meant to be just a trilogy -- Jordan actually wrote the first novel as a potential "one-and-done," and when you read the ending of that one, it basically looks as if

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Rand has killed the Dark One at Shayol Ghul (Jordan wasn't sure if he'd get any more books, if the first one didn't sell, and the ending of Eye can also stand as an almost-series-finale).

However, when The Eye of the World hit the NYT Bestseller List, Tor Books offered him a contract for five more novels, and it expanded from there. The third novel only ends with

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Be'lal vanquished and Rand retrieving the Sword in the Stone -- probably 9 or 10 of the Forsaken still remain, to say nothing of the Dark One himself. There was still lots more storyline left to tell, there, once Jordan started writing that second book which released the other Forsaken back into the world.
post #45 of 48

I gotta admit it got really fucking confusing when Rand "kills" the same guy at the end of each of the first three books.

post #46 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Slim View Post

Well, the core group of protagonists are like a Legion of Almost Mary Sues, and their coolness factor radiates outward in a wave until even tertiary characters gain a Boba Fett shine to them.

Well yeah.  They are ta'veren.

post #47 of 48
They're a tavern?
post #48 of 48
Well, like a tavern it's a comfortable excuse for having anything happen or having anyone you like turn up.
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