CHUD.com Community › Forums › THE MAIN SEWER › Focused Film Discussion › ALIEN: COVENANT Post-Release Discussion
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

ALIEN: COVENANT Post-Release Discussion - Page 3

post #101 of 571
The neomorph!
post #102 of 571

It's now been two days since I saw this film. It is still terrible but my shoes are still excellent. Also, I saved money because it was cut price Tuesday. This went perfectly with the local supermarket having a sale and the brand of tomato soup I like being half-price which was an unexpected nice surprise.

post #103 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

The neomorph!

There is only one morph. And he's made of plasticine.

The terms neomorph, protomorph (urgh) and xenomorph can get right the fuck to fuck!
post #104 of 571
Antemorph. Apremorph. Submorph. Ubermorph.
post #105 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turingmachine75 View Post

The explosion should have left a crater the size of Nebraska if I remember Bishop's line correctly. So yeah, ship's gone.

 

This is where we get into one of those fun debates about whether or not androids can employ hyperbole and how that relates to the film's use of Azimov's laws of robotics.

post #106 of 571
Pretty sure the Alien androids have read both Asimov and Dick and care not.
post #107 of 571

Shan's shoes may be the only good thing that ever comes from this debacle.  Give us more pictures of the shoes!

post #108 of 571
Morph had a white brother called Chas. So your new white alien should be called Chas. That's all I've got since I've still not seen this mess.

post #109 of 571
I seem to remember, as a kid, watching Screentest and someone had made a plasticine short using morphs. The alien was big and blue and just bit morphs heads off.
post #110 of 571

 

Check out the 8 second mark of this clip.  The aliens back spines clip through the floor in a pretty hilarious and unforgivable way.  

post #111 of 571

Wow. Just, wow.

 

Maybe no one will notice.

 

😐

post #112 of 571
Thats not the worst cg in the movie, by a LONG way.

Also, the Covenant looked more like a model than any other ship in the franchise, particularly (and perhaps exclusively) in shots where it was head on to you.

Edit: also the Alien vision was spectacularly uninspired. Fincher's was better. Fuck, the AvP first person game one was better.

I had a realisation last night that made me look at the film more favourably, but that blatant lack of fuck giving puts me off again. Reinforces that Scott really was uninterested in that part.
post #113 of 571

Each passing day I'm less and less inclined to spend money on this.

post #114 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bain View Post

Thats not the worst cg in the movie, by a LONG way.

Also, the Covenant looked more like a model than any other ship in the franchise, particularly (and perhaps exclusively) in shots where it was head on to you.

Edit: also the Alien vision was spectacularly uninspired. Fincher's was better. Fuck, the AvP first person game one was better.

I had a realisation last night that made me look at the film more favourably, but that blatant lack of fuck giving puts me off again. Reinforces that Scott really was uninterested in that part.

That's not the worst?!  It defies physical sense and it's NOT the worst...

post #115 of 571
Well, that's blink and you miss it. Were it not for youtube it probably wouldnt have been picked up on for ages.

There's one that's brightlt lit and in shot for ages that is just a terrible cgi abomination.
post #116 of 571

That part of that clip looks like an early test render than never got finished.  Is that in the cinema version?

post #117 of 571

I mean it's an official clip released to promote the movie so I seriously doubt it's fixed in the movie.  How would they without radically changing the Aliens movement on the ladder?  I feel like some FX guy was 90 percent done with the shot and went "fuuuuuuuuuuuck the back spines!" and just swept it under the rug.  

post #118 of 571
post #119 of 571

Just got back.  I was deeply underwhelmed by this movie, and my standards are pretty low relative to many on this site.

 

There's some good stuff.  I actually really dig David's villain arc and motive.  McBride is great with a smallish role, but one unlike anything I've seen him do.  Fassbender is also great, but he's Fassbender so we expect it.  Everyone else is serviceable, which is pretty much all that can be said of the remainder of their characters outside Daniels (Waterston) and Orem (Crudup), because this movie clearly does not give a fuck if you give a fuck about them at all.  The are just vehicles to provide future slaughter, with less character sketching than you get from your average slasher flick (which this totally devolves into at one point midway through the third act, complete with a "sex equals death" scene).  Also - Just like Prometheus, Characters act like complete and utter blithering idiots to further the plot, including the Android.  Waterston's Daniels so clearly wants to be a "strong woman" archetype in the vein of Ripley but she feels more like a side character than a main one (with David and Walter ending up the main characters).  Though to the best of my recollection she never gets saddled with the idiot ball the way so many other characters do. 

 

It's got some nice visceral kills, but they're sullied with egregiously bad CGI.  The "first chestburster" looks OK right up until it's finished (which brings up another nit to pick with continuity:  The lifecycle of the Alien is soooo not what it is in "later" films).  The Alien itself is pretty terrible (and not in a good way).

 

Above all though, it feels...very small, particularly in comparison to Prometheus.  The reduced budget from Prometheus shows in every possible way.  Dodgy CGI, confined setpieces (and not so much in a good "claustrophobic" way...just "small").  And then there's the ending, which basically renders the struggles of any character they've built any sympathy for completely moot.  All told this really very much does feel like Alien: Ridley's Out Of Fucks To Give.

 

FANWANKERY AND SPECULATION FOLLOWS:

I'm of two minds regarding continuity and such:  I think if Scott is more clever than this movie makes him seem, I could see an arc wherein David discovers he's NOT actually the first creator of the Aliens:  That he's just replicating something that the Engineers had already done (and I could see a nice psychotic break from the realization that he hasn't actually achieved "creation" but rather only replication).  If I were writing and wanted the continuity to line up...that's where I'd go with it.  Have the Queen-following Aliens be an earlier, already "perfected" form of what David has been trying to create.  Rob him of his claim to glory and let him lose his shit over it.

 

On the flipside, I remain convinced that David is either going to be the head of Weyland-Yutani by the end of the prequels, or at the very least all that he knows will end up in their possession, leading to their endless obsession with acquiring the Aliens to try to use as bioweapons.  Ironically...this could ultimately all lead to a setup wherein we do get Alien(s) 5 after all the prequelitis has passed.

post #120 of 571

post #121 of 571
I like how Good Michael Fassbender has an American accent, but Evil Michael Fassbender has an English accent.

USA! USA! USA!
post #122 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmacq1 View Post

FANWANKERY AND SPECULATION FOLLOWS:
I'm of two minds regarding continuity and such:  I think if Scott is more clever than this movie makes him seem, I could see an arc wherein David discovers he's NOT actually the first creator of the Aliens:  That he's just replicating something that the Engineers had already done (and I could see a nice psychotic break from the realization that he hasn't actually achieved "creation" but rather only replication).  If I were writing and wanted the continuity to line up...that's where I'd go with it.  Have the Queen-following Aliens be an earlier, already "perfected" form of what David has been trying to create.  Rob him of his claim to glory and let him lose his shit over it.

My own fanwank was based on the fact that David cries almost constantly when he's not dealing with someone he considers a dick (him throwing stones at Oram to wake him up made me chuckle).

Anyway, he cries for Shaw, the engineers (if thats what they are - I have more fanwank on that) and Walter.

I then remembered "the trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts". Which made me think he's not this soulless automata, but has a soul, but is so obsessed over creating something as he was created, that he has to hurt.

I'm also assuming he over wrote Walter's code (rather than cutting off his own hand) and that in the next there will still be some residue of Walter, and Fassbender will go all Gollum talking to himself. And when he realises all his "creation" is just replication, as you say, he knows he's damned himself for nothing (rather than lost glory). It's a sadder arc rather than a hubristic downfall one.

Re: engineers, I was wondering why they all came out and cheered the returning ship. Makes me think this was some forgotten outpost OR some other cteated species that thought their creators were returning to elevate them. So there could still be some pissed off psuedo gods looking for revenge on Dave.
post #123 of 571

I...thought this was really good....?

post #124 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmacq1 View Post

 

 

FANWANKERY AND SPECULATION FOLLOWS:

I'm of two minds regarding continuity and such:  I think if Scott is more clever than this movie makes him seem, I could see an arc wherein David discovers he's NOT actually the first creator of the Aliens:  That he's just replicating something that the Engineers had already done (and I could see a nice psychotic break from the realization that he hasn't actually achieved "creation" but rather only replication).  If I were writing and wanted the continuity to line up...that's where I'd go with it.  Have the Queen-following Aliens be an earlier, already "perfected" form of what David has been trying to create.  Rob him of his claim to glory and let him lose his shit over it.

 

This is pretty much how I expect things to play out, assuming there are more prequels.

post #125 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dross View Post

I...thought this was really good....?

Plenty of other people did!

I will say this. All these movies stay with me. However much I enjoy or not the theatrical experience, they stick hooks in my brain and make me think about them for years. They're certainly not disposable fluff.
post #126 of 571
I thought it was pretty good.
post #127 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 

 

Check out the 8 second mark of this clip.  The aliens back spines clip through the floor in a pretty hilarious and unforgivable way.  

 

I don't think the clipping is present in the final film. I was watching for it and it seemed like they animated the spines to bend down when it went through the hole. It still looked less than great, but not this bad. 

post #128 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 

I mean it's an official clip released to promote the movie so I seriously doubt it's fixed in the movie.  How would they without radically changing the Aliens movement on the ladder?  I feel like some FX guy was 90 percent done with the shot and went "fuuuuuuuuuuuck the back spines!" and just swept it under the rug.  

Yeah possibly.  The whole thing looks pretty lo-fi though, even compared to other CG shots in the same clip.  Doesn't necessarily make any difference  over all I suppose, argument wise.

The do release clips with less than high grade effects and stuff.  Not usually so close to release admittedly.  But all manner of version screw-ups are possible.  Put together press package with whatever you have at the time, forget to update it etc etc.

I'd have a look on the big screen, but it'll probably be on rental when I eventually see it if I'm perfectly honest.

post #129 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dross View Post
 

I...thought this was really good....?


It's not completely without merit.  But the reduced budget definitely stings.  A lot, and Ridley doesn't seem interested in working to overcome those limitations (particularly in regards to CGI).

 

EDIT:  Another thing I like:  Fassbender clearly models Walter (at least vocally) off of Bishop.


Edited by Jmacq1 - 5/19/17 at 3:36am
post #130 of 571

Man...  All this Alien talk just has me wanting to find that Alien 3 script that was set in a Blade Runneresque New York, with aliens building nests in the sewers and attacking the city.  That would be pretty neat.  Somebody should make that in a video game or something, in the style of the Division.  

post #131 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmacq1 View Post
 

 

 

EDIT:  Another thing I like:  Fassbender clearly models Walter (at least vocally) off of Bishop.

 

Yeah, kinda Bishop, but kinda Texan too. I liked the voice, and I also liked how he played David trying to do the voice.

post #132 of 571

I know I've said I thought this film was terrible but I really should give some details instead of just a general statement and then defaulting voicing my disgust-by-proxy by going into detail repeatedly about how I got a free pair of Nike shoes indirectly via this film rather than talk about the actual content of the film.

 

OK, I get that the final aim of the film is get David onto the Covenant complete with some alien embryos in some form. Sure, whatever floats their boat. I found the scenic block units for want of a better term that were assembled in series to get us there to almost be uniformly awful.

 

To start with, let's look at the last significant block or two. It was obvious David had swapped with Walter to everyone who saw it at the moment it happened. It was obvious to people who didn't see the film - or any film ever, really (on that note, if by some extremely unlikely chance you meet someone who was fooled by this, best to take away their car keys and money as they should have access to neither. Might be best to not let them feed themselves either. Also, tell them they can't be president anymore). That sudden edit right at the end of (what we saw of) the fight really didn't help either.

 

Still, that in and of itself isn't automatically a deal killer for that particular plot point (well, not quite). There was the option of never having Daniels finding out, she goes into cryo and then David reveals what we already know. Or, there's a scene where at some point (even at the point where it actually happens) where David credibly stumbles on something he didn't know long enough to give away his identity.

 

However, we have what actually happened. Even if up to that point you knew absolutely nothing about the cabin prior to this mention, if someone asks you if you'll help to build it, you say yes!

 

Instead, we get a look of perplexity at a point in time when it made absolutely no sense for it to happen. Fassbender sold the hell out of being confused except the lead up was all wrong and you didn't need to be a hyper-intelligent AI android to know how to not slip up. (Internal voice ... Er, yeah sure ... External voice "Yes, of course!" - sorted - identity still successfully concealed).

 

What a debacle and a full-stop that sums up this whole mess as there's loads of previous scenes like this that had an end objective and got there in the most nonsensical way possible.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Bain View Post


My own fanwank was based on the fact that David cries almost constantly when he's not dealing with someone he considers a dick (him throwing stones at Oram to wake him up made me chuckle).

Anyway, he cries for Shaw, the engineers (if thats what they are - I have more fanwank on that) and Walter.

I then remembered "the trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts". Which made me think he's not this soulless automata, but has a soul, but is so obsessed over creating something as he was created, that he has to hurt.

I'm also assuming he over wrote Walter's code (rather than cutting off his own hand) and that in the next there will still be some residue of Walter, and Fassbender will go all Gollum talking to himself. And when he realises all his "creation" is just replication, as you say, he knows he's damned himself for nothing (rather than lost glory). It's a sadder arc rather than a hubristic downfall one.

Re: engineers, I was wondering why they all came out and cheered the returning ship. Makes me think this was some forgotten outpost OR some other cteated species that thought their creators were returning to elevate them. So there could still be some pissed off psuedo gods looking for revenge on Dave.

 

Having said all that, if in fact it's David having hacked Walter as opposed to just stealing his clothes so that there's the opportunity for Walter to hack him back at some point and battle for dominance, I'm going to see this film in a new light (as a movie on the high edge of one star as opposed to the low edge of one star).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones View Post
 

Shan's shoes may be the only good thing that ever comes from this debacle.  Give us more pictures of the shoes!

 

I'm going to take this as popular demand and as such, by said popular demand, the shoes will be back!

post #133 of 571

I read it more as David purposely revealing himself to Daniels, since he's kind of a sadist. Whatever. That didn't bother me, the only thing that really bothered me about the last act was the fact that an Alien was on board. It should have gone straight from the Xeno fight with the crane to Daniels being "tucked in". The Alien on the ship sequence was just pure fan service that wasn't needed.

post #134 of 571

I thought it was vigorously OK.  There's enough good stuff in there (usually involving Fass) to recommend a viewing.  I'll agree with earlier comments that state that the white Neomorph is probably the more interesting 'alien' in this, but the classic alien has some good scenes, wonky cgi aside.

 

Question: at what point did the second guy get impregnated with an alien?  The facehugger was on him for only a few seconds and was ripped off, I assume, before it had a chance to embed an embryo in him.  Did I miss something?

post #135 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
 

I thought it was vigorously OK.  There's enough good stuff in there (usually involving Fass) to recommend a viewing.  I'll agree with earlier comments that state that the white Neomorph is probably the more interesting 'alien' in this, but the classic alien has some good scenes, wonky cgi aside.

 

Question: at what point did the second guy get impregnated with an alien?  The facehugger was on him for only a few seconds and was ripped off, I assume, before it had a chance to embed an embryo in him.  Did I miss something?

 

I suspect the explanation is that it managed to get an egg in real fast which then gestated real fast.

 

In Alien, it took its time (you could even see the time of transfer on the monitor in the Nostromo's science bay) and I suppose you could justify it as it knowing it was latched on so it had time. It's still a rubbish explanation, though.

 

In general, I wish they'd come up with some consistency in the franchise, or at least some sort of rules they could let us in on. As it is, it's all over the shop, from almost instant to the guy in Resurrection who not only survives way longer than everyone else, when it finally catches up with him, he gets a power-up like Jason Statham in Crank. Sure it was fun watching him totally trash that guy (who also totally deserved it) but it's wildly out of line with every previous person we've seen get infected with the parasite, isn't it?

post #136 of 571

The first xenomorph does jazz hands with David.

 

Fuck this movie.

post #137 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan View Post
 

In general, I wish they'd come up with some consistency in the franchise, or at least some sort of rules they could let us in on. As it is, it's all over the shop, from almost instant to the guy in Resurrection who not only survives way longer than everyone else, when it finally catches up with him, he gets a power-up like Jason Statham in Crank. Sure it was fun watching him totally trash that guy (who also totally deserved it) but it's wildly out of line with every previous person we've seen get infected with the parasite, isn't it?

 

In ALIEN, the facehugger is attached to Kane for several hours.  It's unclear exactly how long he's out of commission but I think saying 'at least 8 hours' would be a conservative guess based upon how much happens while it's attached to his face.  I'm guessing that he's awake at least a half hour before the chest-burster scene, but it could be longer.  Regardless, it's established as a process that takes time.  

 

Here, it looks like it takes maybe 20 minutes for the entire process, beginning to end, to happen to Crudup.  At least they show him going unconscious with the facehugger, though.  With Bechir, he doesn't even go unconscious, and you can hear him screaming while the thing is on his face.  The only thing that I did notice was that the facehugger, when thrown off of him, WAS retracting the mouth tube, so I guess it was able to get it down there quick enough.

 

Whatever.

post #138 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie View Post
 

The first xenomorph does jazz hands with David.

 

Fuck this movie.

 

That didn't really work, did it?

 

The scene that DID work was the scene where David confronts the Protomorph and they stand, facing each other.  That was creepy as hell, and David's reaction to Crudup killing the Protomorph was really quite effective.

 

Fass is REALLY good in this.

post #139 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan View Post
 

 

I suspect the explanation is that it managed to get an egg in real fast which then gestated real fast.

 

In Alien, it took its time (you could even see the time of transfer on the monitor in the Nostromo's science bay) and I suppose you could justify it as it knowing it was latched on so it had time. It's still a rubbish explanation, though.

 

In general, I wish they'd come up with some consistency in the franchise, or at least some sort of rules they could let us in on. As it is, it's all over the shop, from almost instant to the guy in Resurrection who not only survives way longer than everyone else, when it finally catches up with him, he gets a power-up like Jason Statham in Crank. Sure it was fun watching him totally trash that guy (who also totally deserved it) but it's wildly out of line with every previous person we've seen get infected with the parasite, isn't it?


It's nigh-instant with Captain Orem, too.

 

Not to mention that it comes out like a little mini-Xeno instead of the original more snakelike chestburster.  And grows to full size in about five minutes.

 

This movie either gives absolutely no fucks about the rules of the creature, or they're going to lean HARD on the "These aren't the same/final version you see in the old movies!" excuse.

 

Seriously, the film feels like Ridley flipping a giant middle finger to Alien fans.  "You want the Alien? I'll give you the Alien, all right."

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
 

 

That didn't really work, did it?

 

The scene that DID work was the scene where David confronts the Protomorph and they stand, facing each other.  That was creepy as hell, and David's reaction to Crudup killing the Protomorph was really quite effective.

 

Fass is REALLY good in this.

 

That was a good scene, yes.  One of the best of the movie.  Largely due to just how creepy the Neomorph design is.  That and having seen it go from that stillness to *CHOMP* just a couple scenes earlier.

post #140 of 571

The Fassbender worked better as David than Walter. The problem is the latter isn't developed enough as a character. Commits the "Show, Don't Tell" rule by talking up how he loved Daniels (and not even by him, but other characters). But then again... this isn't the David as established in Prometheus. They 180ed his characterization for the sake of having a villain. Went from being an ambiguous yet sympathetic character to being straight-up Hannibal Lector. Dug how he was still in his Lawrence of Arabia phase when he's reintroduced though.

 

And that twist was so poorly executed, Helen Keller saw it coming. Talk about half-assed. Hate to say it but the old Ridley would have probably left it open-ended about how that was really Walter or David in disguise.

post #141 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie View Post
 

And that twist was so poorly executed, Helen Keller saw it coming. Talk about half-assed. Hate to say it but the old Ridley would have probably left it open-ended about how that was really Walter or David in disguise.

 

Agreed 100% here.  The movie should have ended without revealing if it was Walter or David...just have Fassbender do a smile as Not-Ripley goes into cryo sleep and walk into the compartment with the sleeping colonists.  That would have been FUN and provoked discussion.

post #142 of 571
A lot of audience laughter. At a press screening.
post #143 of 571
My theater loved it. Lots of positive talk on the way out.
post #144 of 571

I want to kill it with fire.

 

Will you be buying a ticket to see the next one? ...

 

... yes ...

post #145 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie View Post
 

The Fassbender worked better as David than Walter. The problem is the latter isn't developed enough as a character. Commits the "Show, Don't Tell" rule by talking up how he loved Daniels (and not even by him, but other characters). But then again... this isn't the David as established in Prometheus. They 180ed his characterization for the sake of having a villain. Went from being an ambiguous yet sympathetic character to being straight-up Hannibal Lector. Dug how he was still in his Lawrence of Arabia phase when he's reintroduced though.

 

And that twist was so poorly executed, Helen Keller saw it coming. Talk about half-assed. Hate to say it but the old Ridley would have probably left it open-ended about how that was really Walter or David in disguise.

 

... on the other hand, I'm so glad someone or something stopped him from doing that "Alien bites Ripley's head off and then somehow is able to speak to flight control or the Narcissus log or ... well, the key thing is it's speaking and in intelligent fashion and not just mimicking either."

 

That's a) so tonally off and a spectacular leap in demonstrated capacity of the alien for the entirety of the film to that point and b) so fucking stupid it hurts.

 

(So, old Ridley or more a function of being on a tighter leash due to much less power, do you think?)

post #146 of 571

Kinda expected the old man to do that.

post #147 of 571

Well, it would be fair to say this film has split the audience as these kinds of varied reactions across different articles (and comment sections) seem all but ubiquitous.

 

http://www.avclub.com/live/does-alien-covenant-justify-its-own-existence-255505

post #148 of 571

Does anyone think this is better than any of the first 4 films? I'm curious. I actually really liked this, and think I'm going to see it again, but given a choice, I think Resurrection is better, just due to Ripley. 

 

 

We need another Ripley movie.

post #149 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dross View Post
 

Does anyone think this is better than any of the first 4 films? I'm curious. I actually really liked this, and think I'm going to see it again, but given a choice, I think Resurrection is better, just due to Ripley. 

 

 

We need another Ripley movie.

 

Currently (and this is just my opinion), this prequel series is trailing the Alien vs Predator series for me. At least I found those intermittently fun and entertaining.

 

Because at least A v P 1 had Lance Henriksen and that bit where he's doing that thing with the pen alone is fucking funny and the whole audience got the reference and laughed ... and A v P 2 had the Wolf, who was both competent and knew what the fuck he was doing. Something in very short supply in this film. 

 

Fuck, these idiots were like super fucking dumb to the point where it broke my suspension of disbelief.

 

That series also took less of a shit on the film that preceded it which is remarkable as well given that they weren't exactly great or even good works of cinema in the conventional sense.

post #150 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dross View Post
 

Does anyone think this is better than any of the first 4 films? I'm curious. I actually really liked this, and think I'm going to see it again, but given a choice, I think Resurrection is better, just due to Ripley. 

 

 

We need another Ripley movie.

 

I'm still processing COVENANT, but right now I'd put it above RESURRECTION.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Focused Film Discussion
CHUD.com Community › Forums › THE MAIN SEWER › Focused Film Discussion › ALIEN: COVENANT Post-Release Discussion