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ALIEN: COVENANT Post-Release Discussion - Page 2

post #51 of 571
Thread Starter 

They aren't mutually exclusive, but if I have to take one or the other, I'm sure as shit taking the interesting character arc over continuity with another movie.

post #52 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bain View Post

Here's my issue with this, a truly great script could give you a great character arc and continuity. Not only are the two not mutually exclusive but it could give all the films an overall arc.

They could've had David say "a few years ago I was going to fly a ship full of eggs to earth but my engineer test subject flew off with it first. Oh well", and that would've plugged that plot hole, but I'm guessing they didn't bother doing anything like that because it's just not that important.
post #53 of 571
That's doesn't work because the Space Jockey had been there for thousands of years.

It's extremely important because it rewrites the beginning of the first (and best) movie.
post #54 of 571

Plus Space Jockey is about twice the size of the engineers in Prometheus.

 

Not seen Covenant - thinking of going tonight, but don't know if I can be that arsed spending my hard-earned on what everybody seems to agree is a piece of shit.

post #55 of 571
I wouldn't say that. Double Fassbender is great, there are a few tense scenes. Overall though it's on odd mashup of the previous movies.
post #56 of 571
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post

That's doesn't work because the Space Jockey had been there for thousands of years.

It's extremely important because it rewrites the beginning of the first (and best) movie.

So ignore it. Easy.

I'm not twisting myself into knots because PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN 5 contradicts a piece of mythology from PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN 2.
post #57 of 571

Yeah, ignore that the stories and internal logic don't add up. Just look at the shiny flashy things.

post #58 of 571
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stale Elvis View Post
 

Yeah, ignore that the stories and internal logic don't add up. Just look at the shiny flashy things.


Putting such an emphasis on continuity is just looking at the shiny flashy things.  You're ignoring all of the interesting stuff because you're fixated on something that really doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of the story being told.

post #59 of 571
These weirdos get bent out of shape over continuity in every thread.
post #60 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stale Elvis View Post
 

Yeah, ignore that the stories and internal logic don't add up. Just look at the shiny flashy things.

 

I'm guessing that you hate the MAD MAX films, then.

post #61 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post


So ignore it. Easy.

I'm not twisting myself into knots because PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN 5 contradicts a piece of mythology from PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN 2.

 

The Curse of the Black Pearl contradicts its own rules just to have a shot of Jack Sparrow as a skeleton, and that film still works. And the less said about X-Men continuity, the better.

post #62 of 571

Or HIGHLANDER continuity.

post #63 of 571

Seeing as how much more advanced the tech looks in Prometheus and Covenant as opposed to Alien I don't think it's that hard to view them as alternate takes or just definitively not Canon to the original Quadrilogy.

post #64 of 571
Any explanation diminishes the cosmic horror of Alien.

I was never overly happy with the Alien queen as it removed the idea (in the novelisation alone until the special) that this thing would not only face rape you, burst out of your chest but also turn you into an egg to carry on its procreation. That is fucked.

And to compare Alien to Pirates of the Caribbean is absurd. I don't particularly give a shit about continuity but what I do care about is diminishing the power of an existing classic. And once you've seen the "explanation" you can't unsee it.

And why? So that David has a mad scientist character arc. Whoopee fucking doo. He doesnt even really do anything with it. He had 1000s of embryos to fuck about with. But does he duck down some goo to regurgitate? Nope, couple of facehuggers.

Mediocre. Him experimenting on foetuses with the black goo would have been disturbing as hell AND would steer it away from impinging on Alien.
post #65 of 571
Foetuses.
post #66 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bain View Post

Any explanation diminishes the cosmic horror of Alien.

I was never overly happy with the Alien queen as it removed the idea (in the novelisation alone until the special) that this thing would not only face rape you, burst out of your chest but also turn you into an egg to carry on its procreation. That is fucked.

And to compare Alien to Pirates of the Caribbean is absurd. I don't particularly give a shit about continuity but what I do care about is diminishing the power of an existing classic. And once you've seen the "explanation" you can't unsee it.

And why? So that David has a mad scientist character arc. Whoopee fucking doo. He doesnt even really do anything with it. He had 1000s of embryos to fuck about with. But does he duck down some goo to regurgitate? Nope, couple of facehuggers.

Mediocre. Him experimenting on foetuses with the black goo would have been disturbing as hell AND would steer it away from impinging on Alien.

Yeah, this is where I am, and why it's so frustrating.

The idea of David as Dr. Moreau playing around with Engineer tech was fucking GOLD.

Just make that movie. Leave Alien in peace. We don't need the classic Alien to get existential horror in that universe.

Or, fuck, if studio notes say you MUST have the classic Alien make an appearance, why not have them be naturally occurring on the Engineer's homeworld, awoken in the 3rd act by David's fuckery or something?

He does a bunch of experiments, makes some new creatures, kills some folks, and then in the end the natural inhabitants of the planet kill his creations like they're nothing and kill everyone else too. Man cannot compete with the creative genius of Nature, or something to that effect.

It's so goddamn easy to improve on Hollywood these days it's harder and harder to enjoy things.
post #67 of 571
Here's an idea: try flushing the fanwank out of your head and just engage with the movie (and all movies!) on its own terms. You might still hate it, but at least then you might hate it for what it actually is rather than because it committed some kind of conceptual crime against a different movie.
post #68 of 571
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bain View Post

And once you've seen the "explanation" you can't unsee it.

 

You really can.

 

Hannibal Lecter started eating people out of revenge for his sister being eaten by Nazis.  Laurie Strode is Michael Myers' sister, turning the first movie (my favorite movie, mind you; HALLOWEEN means just as much to me as ALIEN means to you) into a silly series of coincidences that utterly demystify the Shape.


And the knowledge of those things has absolutely no bearing on me watching THE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS or HALLOWEEN.  Sequels and prequels only have a bearing on the original if I let them.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post

He does a bunch of experiments, makes some new creatures, kills some folks, and then in the end the natural inhabitants of the planet kill his creations like they're nothing and kill everyone else too. Man cannot compete with the creative genius of Nature, or something to that effect.

It's so goddamn easy to improve on Hollywood these days it's harder and harder to enjoy things.

That's not an improvement, and utterly contrary to the message Scott is trying to convey.

It's so goddamn easy for people on the internet to think they're improving on Hollywood.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post

Here's an idea: try flushing the fanwank out of your head and just engage with the movie (and all movies!) on its own terms. You might still hate it, but at least then you might hate it for what it actually is rather than because it committed some kind of conceptual crime against a different movie.


This, this, a hundred times over, this.  Judge the film you're watching, not the film you think it should be.

post #69 of 571

So you think all these prequels just exist in a vacuum or something?  That corporations can just come along and keep pumping out dreck to make a profit and to hell with what it all adds up to?  I thought there was supposed to be some kind of art in all this storytelling?  All I'm reading here is stupid attempts to dredge up more box office off of classic characters, which is leading to the detrement of those classic characters.  Of course people are going to judge this film - it's a prequel to ALIEN!!!

post #70 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie View Post
 

 

The Curse of the Black Pearl contradicts its own rules just to have a shot of Jack Sparrow as a skeleton, and that film still works. And the less said about X-Men continuity, the better.

 

Yes, you don't need to say much about X-Men continuity. First Class -> (something like Wolverine: Origins but not exactly now) -> X1 -> X2 -> X3 -> The Wolverine -> DOFP rewrites from 1973 new timeline (edit: after) First Class -> new DOFP timeline -> Apocalypse -> (presumably Supernova) -> (Deadpool*) -> Logan

 

*Well, why not?

 

Just ignore minor details like meeting Magneto at 17 and Xavier totally stole credit for Cerebro from Beast.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
 

Or HIGHLANDER continuity.

 

... Yeah, I got nothing.


Edited by Shan - 5/16/17 at 4:08pm
post #71 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename View Post
 

Seeing as how much more advanced the tech looks in Prometheus and Covenant as opposed to Alien I don't think it's that hard to view them as alternate takes or just definitively not Canon to the original Quadrilogy.

 

Easy workaround, though. Prometheus is a state of the art spaceship built for a rich industrialist complete with a piano. The Nostromo is a mass-production mining ship for the 22nd Century equivalent of an oil rig crew. I'm nowhere near the first person to think of this.

 

Much more interesting thing I learned from the AV Club review of this movie.

 

http://www.avclub.com/review/covenant-returns-alien-its-horror-roots-255201

 

On top of all the excellent discussion including the perennial Alien vs Aliens debate, something that I never even heard a whisper of before is that apparently Lambert transitioned from male to female at some point in her life. It's up there in her crew biography as seen in Aliens which I'd never bothered to read in my eleventy billion viewings of the film.

 

http://horrorfreaknews.com/revelation-lambert-alien-might-blow-mind

 

I guess we should expect nothing less from a corporation which not only pays people as little as possible (Parker and Brett would like to have a word about those contracts) but also has no hesitation in using them as experimental cannon fodder that they'd just stick all your personal information on file and then display it to a conference room full of people 57 years or so after your death.

 

Kind of contradicts this but then maybe someone just got the file wrong at the company or they just stuck it in later because well, you know we're Weyland-Yutani and we can do whatever we want with our employees from the moment they sign that employment contract. What are they going to do? Sue us? Good luck with that (probably also too busy just trying to stay alive if what we've seen so far is any indication ...).

 

https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/20/nostromo-crew-profiles/

post #72 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post

You really can.

Hannibal Lecter started eating people out of revenge for his sister being eaten by Nazis.  Laurie Strode is Michael Myers' sister, turning the first movie (my favorite movie, mind you; HALLOWEEN means just as much to me as ALIEN means to you) into a silly series of coincidences that utterly demystify the Shape.


And the knowledge of those things has absolutely no bearing on me watching THE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS or HALLOWEEN.  Sequels and prequels only have a bearing on the original if I let them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post

Here's an idea: try flushing the fanwank out of your head and just engage with the movie (and all movies!) on its own terms. You might still hate it, but at least then you might hate it for what it actually is rather than because it committed some kind of conceptual crime against a different movie.

Sigh... maybe.

But maybe, MAYBE... studios (and directors) don't get to have their cake and eat it too.

If you want to cash in on the emotional/visual/or other elements of a prior property, then the price you pay is you're going to be open to comparison, and yes, CRITICISM of how the new elements you introduce add to, detract from, or otherwise alter the original work you're referencing.

It's not a free lunch.
post #73 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post

Here's an idea: try flushing the fanwank out of your head and just engage with the movie (and all movies!) on its own terms. You might still hate it, but at least then you might hate it for what it actually is rather than because it committed some kind of conceptual crime against a different movie.

How is it "fanwank" to want something better? Or in this case to just leave Alien alone.

When Prometheus was first announced I was nervous because I didn't want explanations. Then they said it would be tangentially related to Alien but very much it's own thing. Then I got exvited for it. And the thing that let me down the mist (aside from idiocy for plots sake) was the needless shoehorning in of specific Alien stuff. Not the ship, or the engineers, but the giant facehugger, the backburster and the stupid proto-innerjaw thing.

The fact that they leaned back into Alien is weak and frustrating.

As a standalone monster movie AC is fine. As both a sequel to Prometheus and a prequel to Alien it is well below par as it strives for the middle road and ends up achiebing that snd thus is mediocre. And that's a judgement on this film. Because its not just the script/production/direction, its the actual decision to take it in this direction. A far braver, and possibly better movie experience, would have been to ignore the whining of the Internet and go full on Prometheus 2 with it. Move it further away from Alien. You can see this is where Scott's heart lies. All the alien attack stuff is perfunctory at best.

And for fucks sake at the very least get people who can write decent dialogue, rather than constant streams of exposition or externalising their thouhts.
post #74 of 571

It's not about wanting better, it's about not wanting something at all and refusing to engage with what it does because it wasn't what you wanted. Make the exact same movie with a different creature design instead of the Alien and all these angry complaints no longer apply, which is why I find them superficial.

 

The irony here is, the overblown fan backlash to Prometheus is likely what scared the studio into making Scott tie the sequel into Alien in the first place, which is what's triggering the overblown fan backlash this time. The moral of the story: never listen to the fans! Ever!

 

I mean to a certain extent I do get it. Like, I think on balance I preferred Before Sunset when you never found out what happens next and you were left on the note that anything is possible. But there's a limit to how much that feeling counts as a legitimate criticism of Before Midnight, and I'm not going to go around banging the drum of "they should never have made this!".

 

I hope in the next movie Ridley retcons Ripley into an engineer in a wig and ends the movie with a shot of himself leaning back in an easy chair, sipping from a mug of fanboy tears.

post #75 of 571

Expecting a fucking prequel to keep continuity with the films it is a prequel to is not an outrageous demand. In fact, it should be the first priority of a prequel. Otherwise....why the fuck make it a prequel? Just make a remake if you aren't going to keep continuity. Also, someone answer this, please?:

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dross View Post
 

So is the Daniels - Ripley connection thing true? I need to know.

 

Because if she's Ripley's mother, I'm not going to see this.

post #76 of 571

Yes, she's Ripley's mother. Get over it!

 

Just wait til you find out who the father is...

post #77 of 571
When did "If you're looking for story continuity between films then you're looking at the movie wrong" become a thing on Chud?
post #78 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post

It's not about wanting better, it's about not wanting something at all and refusing to engage with what it does because it wasn't what you wanted. Make the exact same movie with a different creature design instead of the Alien and all these angry complaints no longer apply, which is why I find them superficial.

The irony here is, the overblown fan backlash to Prometheus is likely what scared the studio into making Scott tie the sequel into Alien in the first place, which is what's triggering the overblown fan backlash this time. The moral of the story: never listen to the fans! Ever!

I mean to a certain extent I do get it. Like, I think on balance I preferred Before Sunset when you never found out what happens next and you were left on the note that anything is possible. But there's a limit to how much that feeling counts as a legitimate criticism of Before Midnight, and I'm not going to go around banging the drum of "they should never have made this!".

I hope in the next movie Ridley retcons Ripley into an engineer in a wig and ends the movie with a shot of himself leaning back in an easy chair, sipping from a mug of fanboy tears.

Oh I'm engaged. I like all the Alien movies to some degree. They're better than most of the schlock that's out there and I like a good chest burst as much as the next man.

I'm just disappointed they went this way and how close they're getting to Alien.

Maybe I'm wrong to put it up on such a pedestal, but it is one of the key films that got me into loving film. I expected much more from the confluence of subject and director I guess.
post #79 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stale Elvis View Post

When did "If you're looking for story continuity between films then you're looking at the movie wrong" become a thing on Chud?

I'm a continuity guy, but I can understand that people get nauseous when enjoyment of a neat piece of bridging material tips over into continuity porn.

Basically I blame Barry.
post #80 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Slim View Post


I'm a continuity guy, but I can understand that people get nauseous when enjoyment of a neat piece of bridging material tips over into continuity porn.

Basically I blame Barry.

 

God damn it, Barry.

post #81 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
 

Make the exact same movie with a different creature design instead of the Alien and all these angry complaints no longer apply, which is why I find them superficial.

 

 

The movie is an Alien movie. Saying it doesn't make much sense in the larger world is hardly superficial, particulary when a little thought could have corrected 75% of all the criticisms of the film.  No one here expects these films to be 100% problem free, but it's pretty clear how little thought Scott and co put into the Alien part of the film, compared to the 'andriods as fall of man stuff'.

 

Anyone get the idea Scott reallllly wanted that Bladerunner sequel gig?  

post #82 of 571

People are overstating the amount of sense it doesn't make.

 

How the eggs made it to the ship in the original is a plot hole right now, but it's hardly impossible to reconcile and given that Scott keeps saying the plan for these movies is to lead directly into the first one, there may already be a plan in mind for that.

 

For how long the eggs were there, I double checked the script online and the line in the original is "hell, that thing's been dead for years. Maybe hundreds of years". Given these movies are a few decades before Alien that would make it a fudge, but not a direct contradiction.

post #83 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
 

People are overstating the amount of sense it doesn't make.

 

How the eggs made it to the ship in the original is a plot hole right now, but it's hardly impossible to reconcile and given that Scott keeps saying the plan for these movies is to lead directly into the first one, there may already be a plan in mind for that.

 

For how long the eggs were there, I double checked the script online and the line in the original is "hell, that thing's been dead for years. Maybe hundreds of years". Given these movies are a few decades before Alien that would make it a fudge, but not a direct contradiction.

 

2104 AD - Alien: Covenant

 

2122 AD - Alien

 

Clock is ticking ...

 

http://alienanthology.wikia.com/wiki/Alien_Universe_Timeline

post #84 of 571

If you went by my fanwank idea of having one of David's test subjects escaping on a ship between Prometheus and Covenant with the crash happening shortly afterwards, that would give them two to three decades. Even if they didn't do something like that, I do think there comes a point at which filmmakers can acceptably say "fuck the pedants", and demanding one throwaway non-committal line of dialogue in a different movie be taken as absolute unshakable gospel is IMO beyond that point.

post #85 of 571
The FANWANK idea postulated ignores that a) the Nostromo crew think its fossilised but b) the spacejockey is MASSIVE. Its way, way bigger than the engineers.

Scott made it huge (fnar) deliberately, he filmed kids in mini space suits on the long shot explicitly to do that. One can only hope he remembers that and the "explanation" is in accord. Anything he does to reinstate that cosmic horror is a win for me.

Edit: confirmed I'm going to see thus with my Dad again tonight. Will be intetesting to get his take. Will try to appreciate it on its own merit. Will also be guaging it through tonsillitis so maybe fever delirium adds something as well.
Edited by Andy Bain - 5/17/17 at 7:57am
post #86 of 571
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stale Elvis View Post

When did "If you're looking for story continuity between films then you're looking at the movie wrong" become a thing on Chud?

 

When it became "If you're looking for story continuity between films above everything else."  When people started trying to rewrite the foundations of what these new films are about on a thematic and character level simply to link up better with a 38-year-old film.  

 

Pretty much then, it became a thing.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dross View Post
 

 

Expecting a fucking prequel to keep continuity with the films it is a prequel to is not an outrageous demand. In fact, it should be the first priority of a prequel.

 

I would argue the first priority of a prequel should be the same as the first priority of any movie: tell a good story as well as you can.  But hey, you do you.

post #87 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post

Get ready for ALIEN's greatest hits as directed by Rick Rosenthal.

Act 1 is ALIEN.

Act 2 is PROMETHEUS.

Act 3 is ALIENS.

And none of them are given time to breathe.  Scott only seems interested in the PROMETHEUS section (which is easily the most effective of the film), and everything else feels like obligation filmmaking.

Fassbender is fantastic.  Billy Crudup is nearly as good.  There are singular moments that work.

But then the xenomorph proper is born, and we're talking ALIEN VS. PREDATOR levels of disposable, weightless monster.

When the credits started, I thought this was a B-.  But the more I think about it, the more disappointed I am.  The inspiration is drowned out by the mundane and familiar.

It's not the worst ALIEN film, but it's easily the most wasteful of its parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post

When it became "If you're looking for story continuity between films above everything else."  When people started trying to rewrite the foundations of what these new films are about on a thematic and character level simply to link up better with a 38-year-old film.  

Pretty much then, it became a thing.


I would argue the first priority of a prequel should be the same as the first priority of any movie: tell a good story as well as you can.  But hey, you do you.

All of the things you complain about in the first post could be solved by it not slavishly trying to back into or explain Alien, by leaving it the fuck alone ( which is all people are asking for) and actually doing something interesting. These arguments dont come from a slavish need for continuity they come from annoyance that Scott et al are trying to make some kind of link that doesn't need to exist and the film suffers for it.
post #88 of 571
Exactly. Nobody was asking for the backstory of the SPACE JOCKEY.
post #89 of 571
I don't think anyone minded a story about the space jockey... but we ended up with an origin story of the blue man group.
post #90 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post

Exactly. Nobody was asking for the backstory of the SPACE JOCKEY.

 

I kinda did, if I'm perfectly honest.  Look, I was young,  I'm watching Alien Resurrection and it's 250 years in the future future and "The Company" is trying to get the aliens a-fucking-gain, via the slowest most circuitous route available and you've got to stand up in the cinema and say to people "Am I the only one who remembers something about a planetoid and big ship full of eggs? And  Giant dead thing that's like built into the ship?!  I think I am!" and I'm pretty sure I heard one or two "Yeah"s among the "Sit down!"s.

 

If they had told me it would mean one of the weirdest concepts in sci-fi monsters was going to boil down to giant humanoids in ugly suits seeding life on earth I would have kept my mouth shut.  I don't think it's at all hyperbolic to say I know exactly what it was like to be one of those people who voted for the Nazis.

post #91 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzman View Post

I kinda did, if I'm perfectly honest.  Look, I was young,  I'm watching Alien Resurrection and it's 250 years in the future future and "The Company" is trying to get the aliens a-fucking-gain, via the slowest most circuitous route available and you've got to stand up in the cinema and say to people "Am I the only one who remembers something about a planetoid and big ship full of eggs? And  Giant dead thing that's like built into the ship?!  I think I am!" and I'm pretty sure I heard one or two "Yeah"s among the "Sit down!"s.

If they had told me it would mean one of the weirdest concepts in sci-fi monsters was going to boil down to giant humanoids in ugly suits seeding life on earth I would have kept my mouth shut.  I don't think it's at all hyperbolic to say I know exactly what it was like to be one of those people who voted for the Nazis.

Not to be one of those but wasn't that Derelict blown up in the nuclear blast on LV-426 at the end of Aliens?
post #92 of 571

That was my understanding as well.  The explosion took out Hadley's hope as well as the Alien spacecraft.

post #93 of 571

It's the standard assumption I think, but I can't recall any specific info along those lines.  It's not clear just how far away it is from the settlement, I don't think.

 

But I don't know.  Just at face value I'd say unless it's right next to the reactor, an interstellar spacecraft that can survive a crash landing intact is pretty tough.  So there's going to be some left that could probably tell you a thing or two.

post #94 of 571
The explosion should have left a crater the size of Nebraska if I remember Bishop's line correctly. So yeah, ship's gone.
post #95 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turingmachine75 View Post

The explosion should have left a crater the size of Nebraska if I remember Bishop's line correctly. So yeah, ship's gone.

 

And I always took it that the ship wasn't too far away from Hadley's Hope, considering that Newt's family was able to get back to HH within a reasonable amount of time.

 

It's still kinda baffling that the Alien vessel remained undiscovered until then (my only real quibble/plot hole with the film), but regardless...I assumed it was close enough to HH to be destroyed by the explosion.

post #96 of 571

It's also likely that the Queen relocated all the eggs in the ship when she moved into the reactor, so while it's possible that the ship is still around, all the eggs are gone.

post #97 of 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post
 

 

I would argue the first priority of a prequel should be the same as the first priority of any movie: tell a good story as well as you can.  But hey, you do you.

 

If they want me to judge it as a standalone film, then don't have it be a part of a franchise. Otherwise, it will always be judged as a part of a larger whole. You don't get to have the name recognition of Alien without being expected to line up with the other films. Especially with Ridley directing. 

post #98 of 571
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bain View Post



All of the things you complain about in the first post could be solved by it not slavishly trying to back into or explain Alien, by leaving it the fuck alone ( which is all people are asking for) and actually doing something interesting. These arguments dont come from a slavish need for continuity they come from annoyance that Scott et al are trying to make some kind of link that doesn't need to exist and the film suffers for it.


I agree.  I 100% completely agree.  ALIEN: COVENANT fails as a PROMETHEUS film and it fails as an ALIEN film.

 

But getting mad at it for not lining up with another movie is such a surface-level problem to damn the film over.  Go after it for its shitty characters and schizophrenic tone, you know?  Saying PROMETHEUS and COVENANT are failures because they don't like up with ALIEN is like saying THE PHANTOM MENACE sucks because Anakin doesn't have a brother named Owen.

 

There are way bigger issues at hand. 

post #99 of 571
He has a step-brother named Owen.
post #100 of 571
Second viewing.

As a film - starts really well when it is full on sci fi. VERY sketchy first white alien CGI alien aside its good right up until the egg scene, then it becomes generic action. The white alien is far creepier than the facehugger induced one. Its like something out of a Chris Cunningham video. There is some great potential to be mined from Walter the Wobot and David that is firmly missed, which is a damn shame. Davids mind rape of Walter is hand waved in much the way his love but destruction of Elisabeth is.

But for the first half its a good sci fi/ monster flick. Then it just seems in too much of a rush to get to the end.

But it's almost impossible to judge it on its own merits. Apart from the facehugger/eggs and final design there are SO many allusions to Alien. The score is the most obvious but there are wholesale lines of dialogue (from the innocuous "walk in the park" to the more on the nose "I got you"). There's even a nodding bird needlessly. It just keeps ramming "HEY I'M AN ALIEN MOVIE" down your throat (pun very much intended). Then there's David's use of the Pronetheus theme for Elisabeth's reauirm. It's so on the nose.

I enjoyed it more second time, but it's the skiny white alien that I want more of, not the classic. Their bursting scenes are better as well. The chest burster had none of the power and staging of the original, and the "imprinting" bit, while an interesting idea, is poorly executed. But the skinny white things are genuinely creepy and its a shame they are dealt with so quickly in the rush to get to the "perfect organism".
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