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WONDER WOMAN Post-Release Discussion - Page 8

post #351 of 1513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post

Moral of the story:

"Steve"s fucking bring it. I'm naming my next kid Steve.

McQueen. Austin. Guttenberg.


This checks out.
post #352 of 1513
And of course Steve O.
post #353 of 1513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post



Wow, they really spent the first third of the video defending superhero genre entertainment being all about male characters.
post #354 of 1513

I think that's sort of a misrepresentation of what they're talking about as gross and misogynistic.  I started the video expecting to be grossed out.

 

I loved the cut to Mike saying in BvS how terrible he thought Gal was and how he didn't want a feature with her.  Cut to a still of a shamed looking Mike as the 94 percent RT score pops up and the Wonder Woman TV theme plays.  

post #355 of 1513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post


McQueen. Austin. Guttenberg.


This checks out.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

And of course Steve O.


Don't forget about Vai.

post #356 of 1513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post

Wow, they really spent the first third of the video defending superhero genre entertainment being all about male characters.

No they don't.
post #357 of 1513

Yeah what did you see Reasor?

post #358 of 1513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post




Don't forget about Vai.

Morse
Howe
Ray Vaughan
post #359 of 1513
Steve Stevens?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post

What the hell does 'woke-ass' mean??

You know how when you've just woken up you yawn? Like that but with your ass.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post


I haven't watched the entire recent output of RLM so I'm entirely unqualified to make a statement on this matter, but that's never stopped me before so I declare that video to be their best work in quite some time.
post #360 of 1513
Somebody tell me I'm pronouncing her name right.

Gal (as in guys and gals) Gadot (Guh-dough)

Is that correct?
post #361 of 1513

Right on the first, but her last name is pronounced Gah-DOT (as in Polka Dot) according to her. I also pronounced it DOUGH for the longest time.  

post #362 of 1513
Damn. I though I was a smarty pants and had it right. Thanks for clearing that up!

I'm just thrilled (for her and in general) that after all the bitching about her casting that she is owning this shit. She IS Wonder Woman..
post #363 of 1513
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

they're all SO BEAUTIFUL!!!


The ugly are left to die on a rock at birth.

post #364 of 1513

Like 300!

 

So... Steve really DIDN'T have to commit suicide in this movie.  Why not just fly the plane away and land in a field and then blow up the chemicals?  Why not fly the plane back to allied air space?  Why straight to suicide, especially when you've got a gorgeous literal goddess on the ground who's out of even Chris Pine's league?  Was he thinking "I can only disappoint her from here!  I'm going out on a high dammit!!!"

 

If Gal Gadot's Diana was in love with me I'm not pulling that weak ass hero bullshit unless I HAVE to.  I don't think he did.  

post #365 of 1513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraid uh noman View Post

Somebody tell me I'm pronouncing her name right.

Gal (as in guys and gals) Gadot (Guh-dough)

Is that correct?
Technically Gal is pronounced Gull. She might have changed it to not confuse Americans.
post #366 of 1513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 

Like 300!

 

So... Steve really DIDN'T have to commit suicide in this movie.  Why not just fly the plane away and land in a field and then blow up the chemicals?  Why not fly the plane back to allied air space?  Why straight to suicide, especially when you've got a gorgeous literal goddess on the ground who's out of even Chris Pine's league?  Was he thinking "I can only disappoint her from here!  I'm going out on a high dammit!!!"

 

If Gal Gadot's Diana was in love with me I'm not pulling that weak ass hero bullshit unless I HAVE to.  I don't think he did.  


Well, the bombs were on a timer so that stops the Allied Airspace thing. I guess even with an explosion there is a risk of chemical dispersal of some description so flying up high was a solution I suppose.

 

The timer had to be long enough to get from Belgium to London though so a crash/bail out over the ocean wouldn't have been out of the question.

post #367 of 1513

Wait I went to take a piss just before that stuff, I missed the timer thing.  If it's on a timer why did he shoot the bombs?

post #368 of 1513

The timer was to release the gas and poison London, but because it was hydrogen based, he could burn them up safely by shooting them.

post #369 of 1513

Hmmm....  Crashing over the ocean still poses a problem then.  

post #370 of 1513

Perhaps, but it would minimize the dispersal, the gas would bubble out harmlessly enough. Sure, I wouldn't order Fish and Chips for a few months, but still. :)

 

But nah, the timer was the key point. The whole setup didn't seem too forced to me.

post #371 of 1513
Yeah, crashing into the ocean wouldn't have destroyed the gas. The gas could then still have been harvested by the germans to be reused. Blowing it up is the safest thing to do.

Besides, he had sex with Gal Gadot. Best life ever!
post #372 of 1513

He could have had a life time of sex with an unaging Gal Gadot!!!!!

post #373 of 1513

I'm not convinced the gas was all that anyway. It's gimmick was that it made Gas Masks useless, but it was also flammable, so frankly, who cared about the poison element of it if you got cooked at the end anyway? And Gas Masks were not that effective against Mustard Gas which was in heavy use towards the end of WWI anyway.

post #374 of 1513

It's basically just napalm.  The super cocaine was more impressive.  

post #375 of 1513
BTW, I take issue with criticizing the side characters as pointless (glares at Saxon) cause they're integral to Diana's whole arc!

When she first meets the team she initially writes them off as a liar, a murderer and a thief. But through her journey she learns that the murderer is a wounded soul with beauty inside. The thief is a dispossessed altruistic person (she sees him refuse payment for goods from the villagers) and the liar is an actor forced to fight in this pointless war.

Her learning to empathise and befriend these guys is a key part of her sparing Dr. Poison in the end and denying Ares. That is their whole point within the plot and removing them would change Diana's arc drastically and definitely for the worse.
post #376 of 1513

Plus, it's not like they take up huge amounts of time from the Steve Diana relationship or anything.  

post #377 of 1513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename View Post

BTW, I take issue with criticizing the side characters as pointless (glares at Saxon) cause they're integral to Diana's whole arc!

When she first meets the team she initially writes them off as a liar, a murderer and a thief. But through her journey she learns that the murderer is a wounded soul with beauty inside. The thief is a dispossessed altruistic person (she sees him refuse payment for goods from the villagers) and the liar is an actor forced to fight in this pointless war.

Her learning to empathise and befriend these guys is a key part of her sparing Dr. Poison in the end and denying Ares. That is their whole point within the plot and removing them would change Diana's arc drastically and definitely for the worse.

 

I swear I'm not being stubborn here but I honestly didn't see any of this in the movie and, having watched several reviews and seen other people declare the side characters meaningless too, I'm more convinced than ever that I'm right here. 

 
Diana starts as a woman defined by her optimistic view that mankind is inherently good and that it can be saved by defeating the God of War and removing his corrupting influence. The only time she wanes from this view is when Steve admits he doesn't believe in her quest and she accuses him of being corrupted along with the rest of humanity. The little storylines of the soldiers accompanying them doesn't sway her in any way, don't play into the final battle, and isn't shown to affect her viewpoint on the world. She spares Dr Poison because she's the same good person who left the island. Her knowing that soldiers suffer from PSD doesn't change anything in regards to that outcome. 
 
Also; can we agree that the movie would have benefited greatly from having Aries as a visible nemesis throughout the movie, rather than a tacked-on twist. As much as I like Thewlis (and it's amusing to see him floating around with his hands behind back like an Anime villain), he needed much more build-up. I greatly prefer him to Doomsday, though. At least he's able to converse with the hero during the fight.
post #378 of 1513
show us these reviews!

show us your receipts!

of course the small stories of her comrades affects her

she 'fails' first by being unable to shake her naïveté when she despairs at the destruction of the village they saved

her arc isn't complete there because she still believes that killing Huston, believing that he's Ares, would stop the war full stop

when the gears of war continue unabated after she runs him through with the sword, she is immbobilized in confusion and despair... and doesn't move to help Steve and Co. stop the army from unleashing Poison's ultimate weapon.

But she does notice that her friends continue to fight to stop it without her help. And then Ares introduces himself.

And while Ares has her wrapped in metal, she sees her friends fighting for their life and then sees Steve explode. (I might be misremembering the order here)

That's when everything she's experienced with her comrades comes together. She's no longer fighting simply to KILL EVIL so that everything will suddenly be all right. She grows in her view to defend/protect the love and goodness that mankind is capable of in their better moments.

I think naïve Diana would've killed Poison the same way she killed Huston if she believed killing her would've stopped the war.

The Diana who doesn't is a different Diana.

I think the film's thematic concerns for Diana's arc required the Ares reveal. Therefore I don't think it's tacked on. Maybe not the most elegant twist in terms of its mechanics, but it worked dramatically for me.
Edited by mcnooj82 - 6/5/17 at 3:35am
post #379 of 1513

It's interesting, because the specificity of who the side characters are could have played into her dilemma, but to me at least it never felt like it registered. For example when she finds out Sameer has trouble getting work because of his race. We know what it means, but would Diana know what it is to be the "wrong colour"? Nope, and she doesn't seem to care all that much, she nods and the conversation continues. Same with hearing about Steve's people having taken the land from Chief's. That tension is dissipated moments after it's introduced and is never brought up again. This is all supposed to be her education in the intricacies of the human race yet since it's never taken further than that ended up feeling like the movie signalling that it's totally woke but knows that this stuff is maybe too thorny to engage in. And that's fine I guess.

 

I do agree that just having them around contributed to her general connection with people, but that's about the only purpose they serve.

post #380 of 1513
I would understand that reaction. It is definitely lip service to these issues to social iniquities.

That's why I suggested that those moments are there for the audience as much as it is for Diana's overall growth.

But I still found it nice to have a broad strokes movie like this to not completely ignore that kind of history, if even for a moment.
post #381 of 1513

I don't think it's too thorny to engage in so much as we're not stopping our summer blockbuster movie to take a ten minute detour into native american history. All you needed was that small moment to get the point.

post #382 of 1513
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post

I swear I'm not being stubborn here but I honestly didn't see any of this in the movie and, having watched several reviews and seen other people declare the side characters meaningless too, I'm more convinced than ever that I'm right here. 
 
Diana starts as a woman defined by her optimistic view that mankind is inherently good and that it can be saved by defeating the God of War and removing his corrupting influence. The only time she wanes from this view is when Steve admits he doesn't believe in her quest and she accuses him of being corrupted along with the rest of humanity. The little storylines of the soldiers accompanying them doesn't sway her in any way, don't play into the final battle, and isn't shown to affect her viewpoint on the world. She spares Dr Poison because she's the same good person who left the island. Her knowing that soldiers suffer from PSD doesn't change anything in regards to that outcome. 
 
Also; can we agree that the movie would have benefited greatly from having Aries as a visible nemesis throughout the movie, rather than a tacked-on twist. As much as I like Thewlis (and it's amusing to see him floating around with his hands behind back like an Anime villain), he needed much more build-up. I greatly prefer him to Doomsday, though. At least he's able to converse with the hero during the fight.

1- I didn't pull that reading out of my ass. It's all there on the screen. I even quote her direct line. I'd tell you and those reviewers to watch it again cause it is right there.

2- It's not about her view which remains constant. It's about her being very hardline from the outset. When she finds out Steve lied she immediately brands him a liar. Because that is all she sees. She's very all or nothing when she arrives in London. But this is tempered through her journey with Steve, Sameer, Charlie and The Chief. The Diana that enters London would absolutely have killed Poison because she would have viewed her as corrupted and lost. She would think this was a good thing to do but the road to hell and all that. Only learning to understand and grow to care for those three opens her eyes to being more merciful (when she speaks about love this is what she also means besides her love for Steve.)

3- The soldiers absolutely play into the final battle. Not only do they help Steve get onto the plane but before Steve dies they're also about to be killed by the Germans as Diana's trapped by Aries, once Steve dies and she gets her rage power boost literally the first thing she does is save them by taking out the Germans surrounding them in that 300-esque sequence.

EDIT: Or what Nooj wisely said.
post #383 of 1513
watch the movie again, Saxon!!!

(only kidding! you watch what you want!)
post #384 of 1513
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

I think naïve Diana would've killed Poison the same way she killed Huston if she believed killing her would've stopped the war.

The Diana who doesn't is a different Diana.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it had anything to do with stopping the war. Ares was asking Diana to unleash her anger at human beings being unworthy, in broader terms he was asking her to join him and turn EEEEEVIL which is something I've seen in a hell of a lot of movies and never has the desired effect on me because it strikes me as absurd.

post #385 of 1513
After Wonder Woman kills the general and comes to realize that humans are not slaves to Ares's will but autonomous agents capable of causing atrocities, those individual connections help her resist the pull of Ares when he finally reveals himself. She knows that, despite its capacity for evil, humankind is not best represented by Dr. Poison. Her faith is not in the inherent goodness of men, but in their ability to be good, a distinct and more mature understanding. It may not be fully developed, but it's certainly there.
post #386 of 1513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post
 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it had anything to do with stopping the war. Ares was asking Diana to unleash her anger at human beings being unworthy, in broader terms he was asking her to join him and turn EEEEEVIL which is something I've seen in a hell of a lot of movies and never has the desired effect on me because it strikes me as absurd.

It's the Emperor syndrome.  So pissing Luke off a bit is going to make him permanently eviiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiil and all of the sudden Space Hitler?
 

What?

post #387 of 1513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it had anything to do with stopping the war. Ares was asking Diana to unleash her anger at human beings being unworthy, in broader terms he was asking her to join him and turn EEEEEVIL which is something I've seen in a hell of a lot of movies and never has the desired effect on me because it strikes me as absurd.

At that point, no. I was only referring to Saxon saying that showing Poison mercy was something Diana would've ALWAYS done, as if she were a static character.

I'm just saying that given the opportunity and guarantee that killing her would stop the war, she would've done it earlier in the film.

Because even her belief that Huston was Ares turns out to be part-delusion. She's never officially met Ares, only knowing him from her mother's bedtime stories. But she proudly dispatches him anyway. The guy never came out and introduced himself as Ares! She's so presumptive!!! How wude!

The moment is very much a PALPATINE "your hate has made you powerful, so strike down this worm and JOOOOOIN MEEEE!!! AND I WILL COMPLETE YOUR TRAINING!!!"

And the showing her mercy here worked on me similarly to how Luke's realization and mercy worked on me as a kid.

It's old hat stuff, but well done. And just different enough from JEDI to not feel like a total repeat. Because it's not like she's about to strike down a pitiable family member.

Though she does destroy someone she eventually calls 'brother'


Also, Draco... I actually think Poison was a very good representative of mankind in that moment. Ares using her to tempt Diana actually shows that even as someone as 'evil' as Poison is coming from a place of pain and fear underneath that she can show mercy to.
post #388 of 1513

*Diana looks down at robot hand in shock...  Realizes*

post #389 of 1513
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post


At that point, no. I was only referring to Saxon saying that showing Poison mercy was something Diana would've ALWAYS done, as if she were a static character.

I'm just saying that given the opportunity and guarantee that killing her would stop the war, she would've done it earlier in the film.

Because even her belief that Huston was Ares turns out to be part-delusion. She's never officially met Ares, only knowing him from her mother's bedtime stories. But she proudly dispatches him anyway. The guy never came out and introduced himself as Ares! She's so presumptive!!! How wude!

The moment is very much a PALPATINE "your hate has made you powerful, so strike down this worm and JOOOOOIN MEEEE!!! AND I WILL COMPLETE YOUR TRAINING!!!"

And the showing her mercy here worked on me similarly to how Luke's realization and mercy worked on me as a kid.

It's old hat stuff, but well done. And just different enough from JEDI to not feel like a total repeat. Because it's not like she's about to strike down a pitiable family member.

Though she does destroy someone she eventually calls 'brother'

 

Yeah and to be honest it never really worked for me then or in any of the other movies where someone is holding a gun at the antagonist and has the chance to blow him away point blank. Here though it's tempered further by the fact that Diana is sooo empathetic and kind throughout that despite her disappointment and rage, any notion that she would actually give in is ridiculous. It works in theory but there's no dramatic tension.

post #390 of 1513
(Ares blasts her with electricity for her LACK OF VISION!)

I dunno! Poison's WMDs just blew up the guy she loved!

I mean, aside from children, who ever really believes that the hero in these big movies is actually gonna fail such a trial of temptation?

It's more about going through that temptation through well constructed drama so that the audience can experience that with the character.

Such villainous contrivances never working for you? That's fair!

But perhaps if Diana suddenly found out that Poison's mother's name was also... HIPPOLYTA????

WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAAAAME???



LUKE: "Anakin??? WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME???"

VADER: "it's my name"

LUKE: "hey that's my dad's name too!"

VADER: "..."
post #391 of 1513

Look nooj, all I'm saying is that BatSupes is better.

post #392 of 1513

*Steve's smoking smoldering corpse lands on Aries, pushing him down a shaft*

post #393 of 1513
tut tut

as usual, a man saves the day
post #394 of 1513

What a bunch of SEXIST Hollywood BULL.

post #395 of 1513
"where did this endless shaft come from??"
post #396 of 1513

"Why did Aries explode into a ball of Poltergeist energy at the bottom...?  I mean, it was cool and all..."

 

"Diana... I know my skin is all melted and crispy and gross... But could you give a dying man his wish of a last kiss with his lover?"

 

"Uhhhh... I, uh... Well the thing is... Steve..."

post #397 of 1513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post

Look nooj, all I'm saying is that BatSupes is better.

Well obviously but I still love WW a bunch too.
post #398 of 1513
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

"where did this endless shaft come from??"

 

That's what she said!

post #399 of 1513

Hey guys remember the part where none of us are funny?

post #400 of 1513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

Hey guys remember the part where none of us are funny?

It's the trade off for all of us being so goddamn sexy.
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