CHUD.com Community › Forums › SPORTS, GAMES & LEISURE › Sports › 2017 NFL THREAD
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

2017 NFL THREAD - Page 19

post #901 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by History Buff View Post
 

If you're a NE or Pittsburgh fan you can sleep well knowing one of those 2 teams will represent the AFC in the SB this year. I mean the AFC is crap other than those 2 teams. Even the Ravens who have a SB winning QB and usually a pretty good defense aren't going to do much this year. 

 

 NFC playoffs should be good. I don't think it'll the crap fest many might think. There are good amount of NFC teams with QB that should be around and good to great for years to come: Wentz, Goff, Newton, Teddy Bridgewater ( once he comes back), Prescott, Cousins, and Ryan and Wilson who have already been to a SB or two. 

So I wouldn't quite sound the funeral dirge for the NFL just yet, even though I agree there are a lot of bad games every week. 

 

NFC playoffs will be fun. I think we got a taste of it with the Saints and Rams, which ended up being one of the best games last week. Lots of explosive teams with powerhouse offenses and defenses to match. I'm thinking (hoping) the NFC playoffs will make this slog of a season worth it.

post #902 of 1046
Thread Starter 
post #903 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcjsavannah View Post
 

Eli Manning has been benched for Geno Smith.

Ben McAdoo is Ray Handley with hair.

post #904 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcjsavannah View Post

Eli Manning has been benched for Geno Smith.

Yeah, cause Eli was the issue there.

Jesus Christ...
post #905 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devildoubt View Post


Yeah, cause Eli was the issue there.

Jesus Christ...

Well, to be fair he is a contributing factor.  It seems like at least once a game he turns the ball over during a sack.  But hey, I bet Flowers is still starting!

 

#FireMcAdoo

post #906 of 1046
Thread Starter 

People all day have been texting me, telling me that Eli is headed to Jacksonville in the offseason.

 

Please, fuck no. I'd take Peyton right now over Eli.

post #907 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcjsavannah View Post
 

People all day have been texting me, telling me that Eli is headed to Jacksonville in the offseason.

 

Please, fuck no. I'd take Peyton right now over Eli.

 

It galls me that he's probably going to end up in the HoF. 

post #908 of 1046
Not me. Eli beat the 18-0 Patriots, and forever earned my appreciation. Any time I have to listen to any Brady GOAT bullshit, I can flash a picture of Eli's mug and laugh. Flawless Victory.

I'd first ballot Eli just for that.
post #909 of 1046

Hell, you're 2-9, why not play you're 3rd round pick and see what he's got instead of hoping Geno Smith finally gets it?

post #910 of 1046

I think McAdoo said both guys were going to be given playing time.  After all, maybe Geno Smith magically figured it out!  The change from MetLife Stadium to MetLife stadium may do him good.

post #911 of 1046

Also, the thing about quarterbacks is the numbers are so ridiculous now that a good but not great quarterback who is on a team that wins a couple Super Bowls is going to compare so favorably to guys from past eras who got in with far lesser stats that they almost have to get in.  I mean, based on pure numbers Eli's passing stats are really close to Elway's, slightly better even, and he has as many rings; despite the fact that Elway was a top three QB in the league for his whole career, and Eli has never even been one of the five best in any single year of his career.

post #912 of 1046
Benching Eli makes no sense. Stupid, stupid, stupid. First mistake Geno makes and Giants fans are goin to be livid. Eli could have ridden out the rest of this lost season and fans would have been apathetic. Now they're going to be pissed.
post #913 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post

Also, the thing about quarterbacks is the numbers are so ridiculous now that a good but not great quarterback who is on a team that wins a couple Super Bowls is going to compare so favorably to guys from past eras who got in with far lesser stats that they almost have to get in.  I mean, based on pure numbers Eli's passing stats are really close to Elway's, slightly better even, and he has as many rings; despite the fact that Elway was a top three QB in the league for his whole career, and Eli has never even been one of the five best in any single year of his career.

I think Eli could argue that he was one of the five best in 11-12, but he'd be #5. My rule is that a player has to be one of the top 2 or 3 at his position for 5 yrs, ideally in one stretch, but with some exceptions (Kurt Warner had an odd shaped career but I believe hes deserving, for example)
post #914 of 1046
Someone at the Giants facility said they went to the cafeteria this morning and 2 guys were in there... Eli Manning and Davis Webb. Manning was helping him prepare for this weekend.
post #915 of 1046
"Alright Davis, what have you learned this morning?" "Aim for Geno's jaw, sir." "Atta boy."
post #916 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post


I think Eli could argue that he was one of the five best in 11-12, but he'd be #5. 

 

Yeah, there were some years he had top five stats.  But in terms of ability, I guess if you take out Peyton the year he had the neck thing, maybe Eli was right on the edge of the top five.  But with Romo, Rivers, Ryan, plus others all behind Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, and Ben, Eli was never a slam dunk top tier guy.

post #917 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmurdoch View Post

Benching Eli makes no sense. Stupid, stupid, stupid. First mistake Geno makes and Giants fans are goin to be livid. Eli could have ridden out the rest of this lost season and fans would have been apathetic. Now they're going to be pissed.

Ha!  Have you been to the Giants subreddit?  Man, they are already livid!

post #918 of 1046

I quit the Cardinals subreddit last week. I re-built it from scratch a few years ago because the layout and stylesheets were busted. Brought it up from barely functioning with like 1100 subscribers to (what I think is) one of the best looking in the NFL community there, with something like 9500 subs now.

 

The level of blind ignorance, sudden and full embrace of Blaine Gabbert as the QB and the constant goddamn talk about picking up every single goddamn QB who has a hick-up on their teams did me in. God forbid anyone say anything bad about the team or the coaching (aside from the special teams coach), and don't you ever fucking say anything bad about how Patrick Peterson hasn't been great this year and got burned by Tom Savage.

 

What I wouldn't give to live in a market that actually knows something about football.

post #919 of 1046
I don't believe you witless imbeciles realize what a 2007 19-0 Patriots team would have done to the world.

Eli saved...nay, Eli DELIVERED us from that abomination.

post #920 of 1046
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T. View Post
 

I quit the Cardinals subreddit last week. I re-built it from scratch a few years ago because the layout and stylesheets were busted. Brought it up from barely functioning with like 1100 subscribers to (what I think is) one of the best looking in the NFL community there, with something like 9500 subs now.

 

The level of blind ignorance, sudden and full embrace of Blaine Gabbert as the QB and the constant goddamn talk about picking up every single goddamn QB who has a hick-up on their teams did me in. God forbid anyone say anything bad about the team or the coaching (aside from the special teams coach), and don't you ever fucking say anything bad about how Patrick Peterson hasn't been great this year and got burned by Tom Savage.

 

What I wouldn't give to live in a market that actually knows something about football.


BLAINE GABBERT DOESN'T JUST DESTROY TEAMS, HE DESTROYS LIVES

post #921 of 1046
I find it inspiring that so many ho-hum quarterbacks are finding success this year. Josh McCown, Jared Goff, Case Keenum, and yes even Blaine Gabbert.
post #922 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by First Class 782 View Post

I don't believe you witless imbeciles realize what a 2007 19-0 Patriots team would have done to the world.

Eli saved...nay, Eli DELIVERED us from that abomination.

 

The Giants Defense saved us from 19-0.

post #923 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post
 

 

The Giants Defense saved us from 19-0.

 

He was better during their 2011 championship, but he made plays in 2007.  The sack avoidance/throw to Tyree was amazing.  He bettered Brady in the fourth quarter, despite the Patriots getting the go ahead touchdown with a couple minutes left.  Give Manning his due.  His two 4-0 playoff runs are legendary.

post #924 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T. View Post
 

I quit the Cardinals subreddit last week. I re-built it from scratch a few years ago because the layout and stylesheets were busted. Brought it up from barely functioning with like 1100 subscribers to (what I think is) one of the best looking in the NFL community there, with something like 9500 subs now.

 

The level of blind ignorance, sudden and full embrace of Blaine Gabbert as the QB and the constant goddamn talk about picking up every single goddamn QB who has a hick-up on their teams did me in. God forbid anyone say anything bad about the team or the coaching (aside from the special teams coach), and don't you ever fucking say anything bad about how Patrick Peterson hasn't been great this year and got burned by Tom Savage.

 

What I wouldn't give to live in a market that actually knows something about football.

I disagree with you on Peterson. I think he's been pretty good this year.

 

But yeah, I just don't get the thing with Gabbert. Once DJ went down, we should've tanked. Gabbert is not a solution; he have to draft and develop. A daunting prospect, but the only path that makes any sense.

post #925 of 1046

An NFL writer that covers the NY beat was on NFL Radio today and suggested that maybe Eli would "retire" or asked to be traded to another team...a team where someone running the show is someone he worked with before...a team with a need of a competent QB...a team...in Jacksonville...

 

 

But seriously, that was just him spitballing. He said he brought something like that up to Eli a while ago, and Eli was like, "Huh. I never thought about that."

post #926 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martianman View Post
 

 

But seriously, that was just him spitballing. He said he brought something like that up to Eli a while ago, and Eli was like, "Huh. I never thought about that."

 

That doesn't surprise me. Eli doesn't strike me as a guy with a bustling interior life.

post #927 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devildoubt View Post
 

 

That doesn't surprise me. Eli doesn't strike me as a guy with a bustling interior life.

 

What

 

makes you

 

say that?

post #928 of 1046

Eli strikes me in that same way as that politician in the later seasons of Parks and Rec. The one that Ben and April work for in DC that - when he's not actively engaging with other people - simply sits and stares at the wall like a shut down robot.

 

Still, HOF Quarterback. It's weird that he accomplished two Super Bowls faster than Peyton did and did it with the same team instead of having to move, yet he's destined to forever live in Peyton's shadow. But I think that's largely a personality thing. If Eli was as outgoing and personable, and business-minded, they'd probably be neck and neck in terms of fame.

post #929 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T. View Post
 

Eli strikes me in that same way as that politician in the later seasons of Parks and Rec. The one that Ben and April work for in DC that - when he's not actively engaging with other people - simply sits and stares at the wall like a shut down robot.

 

Still, HOF Quarterback. It's weird that he accomplished two Super Bowls faster than Peyton did and did it with the same team instead of having to move, yet he's destined to forever live in Peyton's shadow. But I think that's largely a personality thing. If Eli was as outgoing and personable, and business-minded, they'd probably be neck and neck in terms of fame.

I think prefer a wealthy QB to not be a crazy whore for money. Peyton's worked my last nerve.

post #930 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post

The Giants Defense saved us from 19-0.

So the Pats didnt make 19-0....it's still pretty inarguably that Belicheck and Brady's CVs rank them as no worse than 2nd best ever in NFL history at what they do.

Eli amd the Giants didn't"save" us from anything, and they literally created the unendingly exasperating "Eli is elite!" debate
post #931 of 1046

Eli saved us from nonsense like the "2007 Patriots are the second best team ever" comments, even though they were the second best team in 2007, by definition (coming in second place).  Unless the 2007 Giants are the best team ever, that is a non-sensical statement. 

 

I'll admit that Belicheck (even though he is a cheater) is the greatest NFL coach ever, though.

post #932 of 1046

I'd take Montana, Elway, Rodgers, and Warner over Brady though (from my lifetime).  Without question.  And Eli, because he is 2-0 against Brady when it mattered most.

post #933 of 1046

Montana is the best in my lifetime/generation/whatever IMO. He was so smooth, nothing fazed him, and he always put the ball right where it had to be. Guy was unreal. He turned KC into an almost Super Bowl team and played injured most of the 1993 season, and then took them to the playoffs again in 1994. And of course, the John Candy story from the Super Bowl vs. the Bengals.

post #934 of 1046

Joe Montana all the way.

post #935 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
 

 

He was better during their 2011 championship, but he made plays in 2007.  The sack avoidance/throw to Tyree was amazing.  He bettered Brady in the fourth quarter, despite the Patriots getting the go ahead touchdown with a couple minutes left.  Give Manning his due.  His two 4-0 playoff runs are legendary.

 

Yeah, legendary... in the way that Hercules was legendary. As in, not real.

 

In those 8 games, the Giants scored more than 24 points ONCE. In the two Super Bowls, they scored 17 and 21 points, which normally gets you blown out by the Pats. But their D never gave up more than 20, and held the Patriots to 14 and 17 points.

 

I'll also note that I watched Eli in the SF game during that 2nd SB run, play the worst winning playoff game I've ever seen. He was flat-out terrible, throwing two balls directly to 49er defenders that weren't picked only because they were SO terrible that it gave time for TWO defenders to get to them and collide. Twice! The Giants won that game only because their D was doing things to Alex Smith that would get them fired for harassment today. And because the 49ers fumbled away two kicks at the end (and it -still- took OT).

 

Eli was mostly good in those two runs. Not great, but efficient and safe. A deserving champion. But not remotely an all-time great.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by First Class 782 View Post
 

I'd take Montana, Elway, Rodgers, and Warner over Brady though (from my lifetime).  Without question.  And Eli, because he is 2-0 against Brady when it mattered most.

 

Now that last bit is just crazy talk. Football's a team sport. Eli didn't face the Giants D in either of those games.

post #936 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post
 

 

Yeah, legendary... in the way that Hercules was legendary. As in, not real.

 

In those 8 games, the Giants scored more than 24 points ONCE. In the two Super Bowls, they scored 17 and 21 points, which normally gets you blown out by the Pats. But their D never gave up more than 20, and held the Patriots to 14 and 17 points.

 

I'm not saying the defense wasn't important, I'm saying it's not a situation where the defense gets all the credit, like with Trent Dilfer, or something.  Eli threw for over 2k yards, 15 tds to two picks, and had four fourth quarter comebacks in those two runs combined.  I remember those final drives against the Patriots.  The game against the Packers in Lambeau in 2011.  I'm sure there were others. He played great.

post #937 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
 

Joe Montana all the way.

 

Bonus points for not making me hate him due to ubiquity with commercials/commentary/etc.

post #938 of 1046

I guess the Patriots defense wasn't good, so Eli didn't have to show up.  Belichick totally isn't known for his defensive mind.  He totally wasn't the Defensive Coordinator for the 86/91 NYG SB champs, and the Patriots routinely fielded a mediocre defense under him.  Brady won that 2002 SB against the Greatest Show on Turf by himself.  He beat the Seahawks by himself Malcolm Butler.

 

Belichick without Brady has Super Bowl rings.  Brady without Belichick probably has no rings.  Which is why I agree that Belichick is the best ever, even though he is a cheater.

post #939 of 1046

Put aside how you feel about Brady personally because he's the GOAT. Sorry, he surpassed Montana when he came back to beat the Falcons an impossible feat that we'll never see again in our lifetimes. 

 

Montana also had the greatest receiver in the NFL history to throw to for most of his career.  Exactly what HOF has Brady thrown to that has allowed him to get to 7 SB and win 5? I'll wait for an answer.....

I'm not even a Pats fan, in fact I have an allegiance to no team in particularly but to say Brady and what he has done and with the lack of HOF/star offensive players that he's done it with isn't the legendary and make him the GOAT,  is quite nonsensical. 

post #940 of 1046
Moss probably should be in the HoF ans Gronk could make a case if his production continues, but they still only each contributed to one Super Bowl trip apiece.
post #941 of 1046

You gotta throw in Wes Welker too, regardless of how his career ended. Brady and Welker together were unbelievable and they went to two 'Bowls together.

 

Brady has had really good weapons at his disposal. It doesn't diminish his talent or value, but he hasn't exactly been a one-man army out there.

post #942 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T. View Post

You gotta throw in Wes Welker too, regardless of how his career ended. Brady and Welker together were unbelievable and they went to two 'Bowls together.

Brady has had really good weapons at his disposal. It doesn't diminish his talent or value, but he hasn't exactly been a one-man army out there.

True, but aside from freaks of nature like,Moss and Gronk, his weapons have been fungible and plug-and-play for the most part.
post #943 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by History Buff View Post
 

Montana also had the greatest receiver in the NFL history to throw to for most of his career.  Exactly what HOF has Brady thrown to that has allowed him to get to 7 SB and win 5? I'll wait for an answer.....

 

Montana was a two-time Super Bowl MVP before the 49ers drafted Rice. They only had four healthy seasons together.

 

Brady has enough really poor playoff performances that I'd never, ever take him over Montana.

 

We're talking about the lifetime rankings of Brady and Eli... this season really does suck, doesn't it?

post #944 of 1046
I'm not here to speak against the greatness of Brady- though I do think Montana would have as many or more rings had he been able to play in a league whose primary goal seems to be keeping quarterbacks upright.  But the production of the journeymen players that New England cycles through speaks more to the greatness of Belichick and his system than it does Brady.  It's not just the receivers who magically seem to be their most productive in New England.
post #945 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
 
I'm not here to speak against the greatness of Brady- though I do think Montana would have as many or more rings had he been able to play in a league whose primary goal seems to be keeping quarterbacks upright.  But the production of the journeymen players that New England cycles through speaks more to the greatness of Belichick and his system than it does Brady.  It's not just the receivers who magically seem to be their most productive in New England.

 

 

Personally, I've always felt that Montana benefited from the "right place, right time" as much as any player in the league - him landing on Walsh's team was a stroke of fantastic fortune for him, because he wasn't a strapping, cannon-armed God; he was a slight, mobile regular guy with average-ish arm strength. I feel he was talented enough (and his intangibles were off the charts!) that he'd have had SOME success if given the chance, but he was the perfect triggerman for a system that accentuated what he did well. 

 

Anyway, that said, the reason Belicheck succeeds in getting the most out of his players is he finds talented guys and molds his offense or defense to what they do well, as opposed to trying to shoehorn guys into a strict system. I think a lot of coaches fail at that. Welker is a good example - his yds/catch was comparable in NE to his year in Mia, and he never really caught a ton of tds in either place, but BB saw what he COULD do and do well and featured him. He viewed as a feature what many other coaches would've seen as a bug. 

post #946 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post
 

 

Brady has enough really poor playoff performances that I'd never, ever take him over Montana.

 

Montana in the playoffs from 85-87:

46-88, 503 yds, 0 tds, 4 ints, 8 sacks. 

 

Montana wasn't infallible. And that was in the era of stacked 9er offenses too, with Rice and Craig. 

post #947 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post


Personally, I've always felt that Montana benefited from the "right place, right time" as much as any player in the league - him landing on Walsh's team was a stroke of fantastic fortune for him, because he wasn't a strapping, cannon-armed God; he was a slight, mobile regular guy with average-ish arm strength. I feel he was talented enough (and his intangibles were off the charts!) that he'd have had SOME success if given the chance, but he was the perfect triggerman for a system that accentuated what he did well

Montana definitely landed in a system that fit his strengths. I never said otherwise. I just said that he'd have more rings if the quarterback friendly game we see today had kept him upright longer. I'm fine with people who think Brady is the GOAT. Hard to argue against that. But I think if people are comparing ring counts, they should take into account that Joe wasn't afforded the longevity of the modern QB. His four rings are as impressive as Brady's five, in my opinion.
post #948 of 1046
Joe Montana walked by me when I was at that 49ers game last month. He was a lot smaller than you’d expect.

That’s all I got. I, just, you know, hadn’t written in anything in a while.
post #949 of 1046
Rodgers won a Super Bowl with Mike McCarthy as his head coach. Seriously, Mike fucking McCarthy.

That single ring is worth at least 3 with Walsh and 5 with Belichick.
post #950 of 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devildoubt View Post

Joe Montana walked by me when I was at that 49ers game last month. He was a lot smaller than you’d expect.

That’s all I got. I, just, you know, hadn’t written in anything in a while.

Hey buddy, you did great. Go get yourself a cookie.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Sports
CHUD.com Community › Forums › SPORTS, GAMES & LEISURE › Sports › 2017 NFL THREAD