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Baby Driver Post Release Thread - Page 2

post #51 of 211
I hope you loved henrybook!
post #52 of 211

Put me in the 'liked it, didn't love it' camp. Elgort is absolutely the weak link. I actually really didn't like the first coffee run sequence. We don't know enough about Baby at that point so it comes off as kind of douche-y, instead of goofy and/or charming. And none of his dancing in the 'hanging out at home' bits really felt spontaneous. He always felt choreographed. Which I know is kind of a weird thing to say, but you look at something like the Singin' in the Rain sequence in Singin' in the Rain and it absolutely feels like it's a dance that Gene Kelly is coming up with on the spot. With Elgort I can feel the 'and now I do this' in the sequence.

post #53 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post

Put me in the 'liked it, didn't love it' camp. Elgort is absolutely the weak link. I actually really didn't like the first coffee run sequence. We don't know enough about Baby at that point so it comes off as kind of douche-y, instead of goofy and/or charming. And none of his dancing in the 'hanging out at home' bits really felt spontaneous. He always felt choreographed. Which I know is kind of a weird thing to say, but you look at something like the Singin' in the Rain sequence in Singin' in the Rain and it absolutely feels like it's a dance that Gene Kelly is coming up with on the spot. With Elgort I can feel the 'and now I do this' in the sequence.

While I understand what you're saying, and I agree his acting is the weak link of the film.... it didn't really bother me much. Mostly because the conceit that he doesn't talk much and is used to signing only made his minimal, somewhat stilted dialogue work for me. Also I thought his monologue readback of the plan after Bats calls him out was sold well. Also, his baby face is kind of a character too - I thought if there's another young actor I would have RATHER had in that role, and I'm coming up zero. I dug him.
post #54 of 211

Loved it, and whilst the climax was fun, I could have done with a getaway car chase instead just a car brawl with Jon Hamm. They had established he was a driver earlier had they not?

 

No problems with Elgort actually, I thought he did fine with the character. He was low key and there were a LOT of colourful characters around him, but he came across fine. Sold the romance well enough, which is the primary bit of 'acting' required for him.

post #55 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post

 I thought if there's another young actor I would have RATHER had in that role, and I'm coming up zero. I dug him.

Tom Holland if he was a couple years older.

 

Kodi Smit-McPhee.

 

Asa Butterfield as a maybe. I don't know if he's got the dance chops.

post #56 of 211
I don't think Elgort was the problem. He played the role as written just fine. For me, it was the role as written. His girlfriend too. I didn't care about them. Which is better than disliking them, but still put me at a remove. It becomes a film where I'm hyper conscious of what Wright is doing, and I'm more invested in that than I am in the ostensible leads. It's a fun movie, but I think those characterizations keep it from ever getting to be particularly great. As it stands, I think it's my least favorite Wright film, give or take a Scott Pilgrim.
post #57 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post

Tom Holland if he was a couple years older.

Kodi Smit-McPhee.

Asa Butterfield as a maybe. I don't know if he's got the dance chops.

Tom Holland mayyyyyyybe. Negative to the other 2. Elgort I could believe is a car head with a baby face. The others just seem like babies.*

*I say this as a 33 year old guy with the face of a 16 year old with laugh lines.
post #58 of 211
The original choice was John Boyega IIRC, but scheduling didn't work out.
post #59 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dent6084 View Post

The original choice was John Boyega IIRC, but scheduling didn't work out.

Acting wise he would have been the tits, but he looks a bit old to be Baby.
post #60 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dent6084 View Post

The original choice was John Boyega IIRC, but scheduling didn't work out.

DAMN!!!

post #61 of 211

Logan Lerman was up for it too.

post #62 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post

*I say this as a 33 year old guy with the face of a 16 year old with laugh lines.

 

We have the same birthday, but just now did I come to know we were literally born on the same day.

post #63 of 211
I was born on the same day as Chris Pratt, at the same hospital. I'm like his Neville Longbottom or something.
post #64 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post

I was born on the same day as Chris Pratt, at the same hospital. I'm like his Neville Longbottom or something.

 

you'll behead a monstrous snake someday, arjen!!

post #65 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post

I don't think Elgort was the problem. He played the role as written just fine. For me, it was the role as written. His girlfriend too. I didn't care about them. Which is better than disliking them, but still put me at a remove. It becomes a film where I'm hyper conscious of what Wright is doing, and I'm more invested in that than I am in the ostensible leads. It's a fun movie, but I think those characterizations keep it from ever getting to be particularly great. As it stands, I think it's my least favorite Wright film, give or take a Scott Pilgrim.

I am probably a little less positive on Elgort's performance fhan even this luke-warm appraisal, but I would say this analysis is basically the same one I had.
post #66 of 211
I was born the same day as Ellen Page. Definitely not the same hospital. If I ever meet her, I am introducing myself as her celebrity birthday.
post #67 of 211
Genuinely fun and occasionally very inventive movie with a killer supporting cast. Loved John Hamm getting a role to actually shine big time in.

I'm going to have to join the negative chorus regarding the leads though. Elgort was just kinda there for me. As for Lily James, CINDERELLA proved she had big time charisma and she shows it in bits here in a role that is frankly astonishingly lazy and outdated. Seriously, we're still doing the "simple-minded fantasy girl who has no dreams or life of her own except to be the reward for our hero after one date" thing? I'm sorry, but if people are gonna let that hacky shit slide they better give Whedon a pass on his unused WW script or whatever other PC Twitter outrages pop up.
post #68 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Episode29 View Post



I'm going to have to join the negative chorus regarding the leads though. Elgort was just kinda there for me. As for Lily James, CINDERELLA proved she had big time charisma and she shows it in bits here in a role that is frankly astonishingly lazy and outdated. Seriously, we're still doing the "simple-minded fantasy girl who has no dreams or life of her own except to be the reward for our hero after one date" thing? I'm sorry, but if people are gonna let that hacky shit slide they better give Whedon a pass on his unused WW script or whatever other PC Twitter outrages pop up.

I agree with this.

 

I was surprised by how little there was to Lily James' character.  I liked the general chemistry between her and Elgort, but there wasn't much for me there beyond that.  The supporting cast really fills that out along with the filmmaking.  

 

Patience, Episode29!  These kinds of PC Twitter outrages can operate on a time-bomb scenario!  It's being saved for some later 'sin' that Wright may make in the future.

 

Until then... this film will be waiting...

post #69 of 211
I'm honestly shocked Wright hasn't gone in front of the PC firing squad yet. The female characters in his films are a lot worse than any sin Whedon has ever comitted. I actually think Hot Fuzz comes off best in this regard, as it doesn't bother to shoe-horn in female characters Wright has no interest in writing.
post #70 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomTastic View Post

Logan Lerman was up for it too.
I'm a Lerman apologist, I actually like the guy a lot, but he would not have worked as well in this role.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T. View Post

We have the same birthday, but just now did I come to know we were literally born on the same day.

Heck yeah DT. An auspicious day.
post #71 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by COULD432 View Post

I'm honestly shocked Wright hasn't gone in front of the PC firing squad yet. The female characters in his films are a lot worse than any sin Whedon has ever comitted. I actually think Hot Fuzz comes off best in this regard, as it doesn't bother to shoe-horn in female characters Wright has no interest in writing.

For now, I think it might be precisely because he doesn't really push himself as a beacon of cinema feminism the way Whedon has pushed himself.

 

That and his talent/craft in screenwriting as well as directing.

 

FOR NOW...

post #72 of 211
Yeah, you're probably right. It probably helps fhat he has never had a real hit. The first time he actually releases a huge blockbuster, the thinkpieces will descend. We can only tear down those who succeed, he is still the underdog.
post #73 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

I agree with this.

I was surprised by how little there was to Lily James' character.  I liked the general chemistry between her and Elgort, but there wasn't much for me there beyond that.  The supporting cast really fills that out along with the filmmaking.  

Patience, Episode29!  These kinds of PC Twitter outrages can operate on a time-bomb scenario!  It's being saved for some later 'sin' that Wright may make in the future.

Until then... this film will be waiting...

James lit up the screen with charisma in the few scenes she had. She was the driving reason (pun intended) for Baby to risk everything to get away from the life, and the OTHER female in the film was a prime mover who had as many lines and as much of a role as the other males right up until she bought it.

I'm trying to conceive of how to tell this story that would make everyone happy, and I'm coming up short. As is, she throws in with Baby but acts how anyone who wasn't a criminal would act. The only other route I can see them taking would have been for her to flat out reject Baby due to his criminal entanglements.

Maybe she drops a dime on him. Maybe she's the reason he gets locked up. I have a feeling that if they'd taken that route and she'd had nearly the exact amount of screen time, this criticism wouldn't have come up.... but it would be a less sweet film. The naive teenage romance at the heart of it is part of the charm.
post #74 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post

I'm trying to conceive of how to tell this story that would make everyone happy, and I'm coming up short. As is, she throws in with Baby but acts how anyone who wasn't a criminal would act. The only other route I can see them taking would have been for her to flat out reject Baby due to his criminal entanglements.

 

I like that the reason other criminals pick on Baby or distrust him is because they can tell he isn't a criminal at heart.

post #75 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post

I'm trying to conceive of how to tell this story that would make everyone happy, and I'm coming up short. As is, she throws in with Baby but acts how anyone who wasn't a criminal would act. The only other route I can see them taking would have been for her to flat out reject Baby due to his criminal entanglements.

Maybe she drops a dime on him. Maybe she's the reason he gets locked up. I have a feeling that if they'd taken that route and she'd had nearly the exact amount of screen time, this criticism wouldn't have come up.... but it would be a less sweet film. The naive teenage romance at the heart of it is part of the charm.

There are ways to write the character so she's not a total blank. How about an inner life? Or dialogue expressing her conflicted thoughts about the situation? I mean, this girl goes on one (aborted) date with the dude and is willing to sign up for the long run and even put her life on hold for half a decade?! That's pure dumb male fantasy without an iota of depth or wit. The psychology of Buddy and Darling makes sense. There's nothing on-screen to explain Debora's instantaneous steadfast commitment to Baby. Carey Mulligan in DRIVE she was not.
post #76 of 211

I really liked Lily James' screen presence in general.  I thought she was really good in Cinderella.

 

I just found the role to be kind of a waste of all that on-screen charisma.  She does great with what she has and I buy that Anselgort would go through all this for her.  But I never became particularly engrossed with the central romance beyond the basic plot function.

 

I did really like their scene in the laundromat.

 

I really really enjoyed the film.  I'm going to see it again on Monday.  But I just had a specific feeling of wishing that their central romance had more oomph to go with the fun crime-filled delight surrounding them.

post #77 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

I really liked Lily James' screen presence in general.  I thought she was really good in Cinderella.

I just found the role to be kind of a waste of all that on-screen charisma.  She does great with what she has and I buy that Anselgort would go through all this for her.  But I never became particularly engrossed with the central romance beyond the basic plot function.

I did really like their scene in the laundromat.

I really really enjoyed the film.  I'm going to see it again on Monday.  But I just had a specific feeling of wishing that their central romance had more oomph to go with the fun crime-filled delight surrounding them.

I thought they had enough chemistry to support another 20 minutes of screentime courtship without a doubt. I would have liked it, but I don't think it was necessary. I was on board with the relationship as-is, which is what's needed to feel the tension in Baby's situation.

ETA:
The 2-second shot of their shoes tapping in sync to the music is the best sex scene of the year.
post #78 of 211
I would've loved to see more of them. It's an appealing onscreen couple!

But the meticulous efficiency of Wright's movie wouldn't be able to take that on, I think. Which is why I say it was very functional.

I'd say it's functional in a way similar to the rom-com element of Shaun of the Dead, which I never found particularly memorable since the actual relationship was the one between Pegg and Frost.

Actually, I found the coda with him in prison and getting out to be strangely perfunctory. I wish we had more actual screentime with them instead of that.
post #79 of 211

I've talked to people at work who are convinced that that final sequence is supposed to be a dream. I dunno, five years with good behavior sounds about right.

post #80 of 211

 While Baby Driver wasn't as good as I thought it would be, I did have good time watching it and I would highly recommend it. I guess where I found it lacking was the romance. Baby and Debra where cute together, but I didn't buy that she would live the rest of her life on the run with a guy she just meet. The love story seemed more like a reason for Baby to quit crime, so the movie can have a third act.

 

   For as good as Foxx was at playing crazy, Hamm brought it to another level. I was impressed by the intensity he brought to the role. Also the way he was lit during the climax made him look even more intense. Scoring the big car fight to Brighton Rock was my favorite part of the movie.

 

  I did like that the movie didn't play out like I assumed it would. I was pleasantly surprised by Spacey's face turn. I assumed the movie would end with an epic car chase, but instead went  with the fight in the garage.  Finally Baby turning himself in so Debra didn't have to live as a criminal a more believable way to end the movie as apposed to them being on the run for the rest of their lives. Even though I started this post by saying that the love story was underdeveloped, that does across as how a mature person in love would act.

 

  Seeing the rainbow as Baby was released from prison was a good payoff to the teller quoting him the Dolly Parton lyrics.

post #81 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post

The only other route I can see them taking would have been for her to flat out reject Baby due to his criminal entanglements.

Maybe she drops a dime on him. Maybe she's the reason he gets locked up. I have a feeling that if they'd taken that route and she'd had nearly the exact amount of screen time, this criticism wouldn't have come up.... but it would be a less sweet film. The naive teenage romance at the heart of it is part of the charm.

 

But then the movie would be Drive.

post #82 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post
. It becomes a film where I'm hyper conscious of what Wright is doing, and I'm more invested in that than I am in the ostensible leads.

I think this is rapidly becoming my biggest gripe with Wright as a filmmaker. He's too meticulous, and it makes his films less 'films' than they are 'machines.' There's no real room for improv or spontaneity and so the gears of the mechanism he's building become much more apparent, and I can appreciate the cleverness of the device, but I can't really lose myself in them. Shaun and The World's End are probably his loosest films, for different reasons.

 

And I know he's become kind of close with a lot of the L.A. comedy and improv scene, but I'm not sure what lessons he's taken from them. I think he could afford to take a few more.

post #83 of 211

as long as he doesn't become paul feig...

post #84 of 211

Shaun is incredibly tight. I feel like World's End is his loosest all around.

post #85 of 211

And Paul Feig needs to learn that improv and ad-lib aren't the same thing.

post #86 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post

Shaun is incredibly tight. I feel like World's End is his loosest all around.

The third act kind of throws you for a loop, but it's a deceptively tight film. There's a shit-ton of subtlety going on in The World's End, and it's very clever.

Scott Pilgrim is definitely his loosest film, but it's not entirely his fault. He worked really closely with the author of the comics, who himself hadn't nearly finished the series and didn't really know how he wanted it to end.

Scott Pilgrim is a movie I adore, but it was probably made 5 years too early. It needed more time to develop before shooting.
post #87 of 211

Scott Pilgrim (which is wonderful and took me by surprise when I saw it a week into release) is the closest we've ever gotten to a modern-day Buckaroo Banzai. Stuff like Guardians of the Galaxy comes close to that aspiring esoteric 80's blockbuster feel, but the rock band, quasi-fandom of the main character, quirky supporting cast, and whiplash pacing have the same cult elements.

 

Anyone else notice elements of Walter Hill's other stuff in Baby Driver that isn't The Driver? The opening credits feel like something he'd do. The music element evokes Streets of Fire and Crossroads and the romance comes through similarly in the former. And the bank heist stuff recalls Extreme Prejudice. And the antagonistic heist partners could arguably call back to Johnny Handsome.

 

Hearing Ry Cooder show up on the soundtrack would have been right at home.

post #88 of 211

I like the fact that the romance between Baby and Deborah is a throwback to the type of romances you'd see in much older movies. I assume it's why the rest of the cast is wearing modern-day fashions whereas the two lovers wear clothes more akin to the seventies or the eighties, why Baby rings Deborah on the cafe's landline instead of texting or emailing her, and why Baby's two fantasy sequences of Deborah waiting by the car are in black and white.Yes, Deborah isn't as fully rounded as she perhaps could be and Lily James does a surprising amount of heavy lifting when it comes to making that romance sing, but it did enough to keep me invested in the two of them as a couple.

post #89 of 211

It's definitely a catch-22, the romance. On the one hand, like others have said, it's clearly paying homage to classic films and tropes. It's old-school-cool and it definitely works within the world-building and storytelling of the film.

 

But on the other hand, you've got the people who will forsake that look-back to classic film-making because it's no longer 100% politically correct. Then again, if Baby had been a girl and Debora been a sweet, male server everyone would have applauded the dynamic shift as being progressive.

 

I don't think the romance was sexist or harmful at all. They were a couple of young kids caught up in love/lust, and kids in that situation don't tend to follow logic. Baby was this sweet, mysterious and cool dude and Debora was a pure, kind, beautiful girl with knowledge and good taste in music -- music being arguably the most important thing in Baby's existence.

 

Anyone who thinks the romance is unrealistic or sexist clearly forgot what it was like to be in your late teens and utterly head over heels for someone that you think brings to your life a larger sense of meaning and belonging than your shitty job/circumstances.

post #90 of 211

I didn't think twice about the romance. The movie is made with cinematic language. The point of reference is other movies, not real life human behavior.

post #91 of 211

"ehhhh I was in love ONCE.  get outta here you KIDS"

post #92 of 211

If there's a parallel universe, this was a spiritual sequel to True Romance in the late 90's. Tony Scott directing, story by Tarantino, screenplay ultimately written by Christopher McQuarrie (who, lest you forget, has gone 3 for 3 somehow aping 70's action cinema and/or chase sequences).

 

I can't do a full recast now, but I'm firm that Gene Hackman would be Doc. George Clooney or Michael Keaton would be inspired as Buddy, but I keep going back to Alec Baldwin (who Hamm is definitely channeling in the part).

post #93 of 211

By the way, I think I'd only seen one trailer for this movie and so I (luckily) avoided getting spoiled on the joke which made me giggle like a small child when I finally "got it" - the Mike Myers mask scene.

 

I also laughed at Doc reminding Bats how easy a four letter name is to remember and when Bats points out that it's not his real name, Spacey's deadpan reply is something along the lines of "I'm not talking about that, Leon."

post #94 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
 

Shaun is incredibly tight. I feel like World's End is his loosest all around.

I'm talking more in terms of 'feel' than actual structure. All three of the Cornetto Trilogy are super-tight structurally, but Shaun and TWE are performatively a bit looser, I think. The characters feel more like people than devices for the comedy, like they are in Hot Fuzz.

 

Quote:
 Scott Pilgrim is definitely his loosest film, but it's not entirely his fault. He worked really closely with the author of the comics, who himself hadn't nearly finished the series and didn't really know how he wanted it to end.

I think Scott Pilgrim is more messy than loose.

post #95 of 211

Enjoyed this, but it's all about Jamie Foxx and the way Wright creates a constant rhythm with the music (the back twenty minutes peters out completely when he loses the IPOD). It's also kind of a sneaky-poor car chase movie, lol. In hindsight, nothing besides the three red cars gag really registers. 

post #96 of 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post
 

By the way, I think I'd only seen one trailer for this movie and so I (luckily) avoided getting spoiled on the joke which made me giggle like a small child when I finally "got it" - the Mike Myers mask scene.

 

I also laughed at Doc reminding Bats how easy a four letter name is to remember and when Bats points out that it's not his real name, Spacey's deadpan reply is something along the lines of "I'm not talking about that, Leon."

Spacey's a hoot in this film. Kills every line reading (the Monsters Inc. gag!), even if his face turn's a little underdeveloped. But he totally gets the big cartoon crime vibe and aces it.

post #97 of 211

Spacey's great, but his farewell scene needed an actor who could be convincingly paternal.

post #98 of 211

I really wish Wright had stuck with the idea of Baby's music "bleeding" out into the real world -- in the graffiti, in the store signs, in the gunfire matching the beat of the songs -- all the way through.  It would have been a revolutionary way of making a musical.  And it would have made some of the narrative bumps a little easier to swallow.

post #99 of 211

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think this would have worked as a full blown musical.

post #100 of 211

I posted a quick review over at my new digs, before the window for such things closes. I'm mostly trying to get a feel for balancing my own voice with trying to make SEO happy. I'm worried it's a little too sterile (I wrote and wrote, then pared down after the fact for optimization), so any feedback would be appreciated.

 

Anyway, I kind of think this film is a musical. Literally every major event in Baby's arc happens set entirely to music and every physical action is orchestrated to it. It's like a Disney film except there's gunfire, vulgar language and people getting fucking impaled and blown up.

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