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Spider-Man: Homecoming (Post Release) - Page 16

post #751 of 864

It's my favorite one OH NO!!!

post #752 of 864
I mean, I suppose it's okay to say if you are one. Reclaim the term, Freeman! Strip it of its harmful power!
post #753 of 864

They can't hurt me!

post #754 of 864

Fuck. I failed.

 

Weaving.

 

I blame Freeman. And Boone. 

 

Thanks, Obama!

post #755 of 864
Agent-Smith-Evil-Laugh.gif
post #756 of 864
Where ma money, Frisbee?

Where ma money?
post #757 of 864
The ghost of Dennis Weaver wept.
post #758 of 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

You are right! They did make the most comprehensible Marvel film, or one of them anyway, Civil War, reflected here: 

Brad Bird as "workmanly", sir? I object! If Ghost Protocol doesn't move him further to the left...

 

 

Then The Incredibles damn well should!

 

 

The clarity, rhythm, and movement of Bird's action sequences are balletic in their elegance, and they're beautifully peppered with character (Dash's triumphant laugh when he realizes he can run on water) and humor (the glove's pathetic shriek as it finally detaches off the Burj and plummets to its doom). He also knows how to manage the buildup (look at how carefully each "helper" Ethan has is established only to strip each one away one by one) and pull off a genuine "OH SHIT" like nobody's business (Ethan hitting the upper lip of the window is masterful  - great sound there too). There's an old-fashioned gracefulness to Bird's action, and he's one of the best at it in the business.

post #759 of 864

Yet another reason Boone's list is insane nonsense for crazy people.

post #760 of 864
Thread Starter 

Da fuq is going on in here?

post #761 of 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post
 

Da fuq is going on in here?

 

An unauthorized crossover with the 'Most Hated Cliches' thread.

 

post #762 of 864
Thread Starter 

I used love crossover episodes but....

post #763 of 864

Saw this over the weekend. Spidey running across a golf course muttering "This sucks" was so great. Now back to whatever insane chart you guys are discussing.

post #764 of 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misfit View Post
 

Saw this over the weekend. Spidey running across a golf course muttering "This sucks" was so great. Now back to whatever insane chart you guys are discussing.

 

I thought the suburban sequence was great - it's the first time I've realized that there are limitations to Spidey's powers. Previously, he'd always spent so much time among cities and metal that I hadn't even thought about what a Spider-Man in the suburbs would be able to do. The warehouse sequence is great in that regard, too - it illustrates that Spidey can shoot all the webs he wants, but he's not got the strength of a Cap or even an Iron Man. Makes us root for him in both cases. 

post #765 of 864

Or how he'd have to adapt if he found himself in Arizona.

 

Hold up, Spider-Man vs. Sandman in the desert. Send me a check, Marvel.

post #766 of 864

Or even...dare I say it...in space.

post #767 of 864

I have a strong feeling that Spidey will gain Captain Universe powers (though they won't use that name) at some point in Avengers 3 or 4.

 

post #768 of 864
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

 

I thought the suburban sequence was great - it's the first time I've realized that there are limitations to Spidey's powers. Previously, he'd always spent so much time among cities and metal that I hadn't even thought about what a Spider-Man in the suburbs would be able to do. The warehouse sequence is great in that regard, too - it illustrates that Spidey can shoot all the webs he wants, but he's not got the strength of a Cap or even an Iron Man. Makes us root for him in both cases. 

 

Yeah, I really liked the fact that they deliberately avoided ANOTHER shot of Spidey swinging through downtown New York. We've seen that in every movie so far and it helped to distinguish this instalment from the others. Another little detail I thought was a nice touch, was having Spidey affected by the height of the Washington Monument. The previous movies have shown Pete only being nervous after his powers kick-in but then being unafraid to go anywhere. It was great that this particular version of Peter Parker still experiences fear despite all of his abilities and the fact he's been around for a while - it helps to remind us that he's just a fifteen year old kid under that costume.

post #769 of 864

Brace yourselves, Negative Nancy incoming.

 

This was okay. Not particularly good, but not too bad either. I didn't feel swayed in either direction. Competent like Doctor Strange, not outright detestable like Ant-Man.

 

Most of the humor felt forced to me. It was a lot of jokes that probably sounded better in isolation/on paper, much like (you guys are going to kill me) Paul Feig's Ghostbusters.

 

Tom Holland embodies the trying-too-hard feel of the whole enterprise. The acting effort is visible on his face in every scene, much like the equally strained Andrew Garfield. It's hard for me to buy the "I'm just a regulah kid who wants ta do the right thing" act when he's conveying it so desperately. For a movie like this to really work, you need to care about Spider-Man/Parker, which I did not.

 

Vulture: Keaton was fine. The part itself was the usual crap. "I DO IT ALL FUH MUH FAMLEE. ALL FUH MA FAMLEE.". These exact lines have come out of the lips of about 25 MCU chracters so far. It's getting pretty damn old.

 

The filmmaking ranged from average to bad. None of the action/suspense bits rose above the level of network TV. Framing and editing cuts were all sloppy. It had the panache of a Brett Ratner film.

 

I can't actually think of a single positive point right now, but again, I didn't outright hate it. I just don't think I'll feel the need to ever watch it again. Amazing Spider-Man 1, now that I hated.

post #770 of 864
If you think people on this forum would give you a hard time for ragging on jokes not working in the ghostbusters remake you're either being sarcastic or haven't been paying attention.

Everything you said about this movie was garbage however and I hate you now.
post #771 of 864
Thread Starter 

Yeah, shut your face, Kyle Reese! You'll always be the Jai Courtney version to me, from now on!

post #772 of 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
Everything you said about this movie was garbage however and I hate you now.

 

This is what you should get as a tattoo.

 

 

 

On your forehead.

post #773 of 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Reese View Post

 

 

I can't actually think of a single positive point right now,

Not even Marisa Tomei, you heartless bastard?

post #774 of 864

I've always liked Marisa Tomei. What manner of beast do you take me for?

post #775 of 864
Thread Starter 

Kyle Beast

 

 

 

 

 

 

Meh. I've made worse jokes on this forum.

post #776 of 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post
 

 

This is what you should get as a tattoo.

 

 

 

On your forehead.

Maybe you can get a Hugo Weaver tat too.

post #777 of 864
Kyle Reese be like, Spider-Man: Homecoming?

I DIDN'T BUILD THE FUCKING THING
post #778 of 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post
 

 

This is what you should get as a tattoo.

 

 

 

On your forehead.

Maybe you can get a Hugo Weaver tat too.

 

post #779 of 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post

I thought the suburban sequence was great - it's the first time I've realized that there are limitations to Spidey's powers. Previously, he'd always spent so much time among cities and metal that I hadn't even thought about what a Spider-Man in the suburbs would be able to do. The warehouse sequence is great in that regard, too - it illustrates that Spidey can shoot all the webs he wants, but he's not got the strength of a Cap or even an Iron Man. Makes us root for him in both cases. 

you've never heard jokes about Spidey in the suburbs (or any location that isn't some vibrant metropolis)???

also, this marble spidey is pretty damned strong as established in Cybil War

we see that YouTube video of him taking a speeding bus smashing into him (which we see again in Homecoming)

he can stop the winter soldier's punch like it's nothing and go "wow is that a metal arm???"

and Bucky has had some version of the super soldier serum as well in addition to the metal arm, which cap had a hard time with in that one movie that was praised for being a political thriller that you love so much Boone!

another instance of these movies using super powers and abilities in vague ways depending on the needs of a scene (which tend to lean hard on DELIGHTING us plebs with scraps)

doubly vexing when it's a part of some silly cinnamon uverse

this has been happening with Cap as well

In Avengers, it seemed like he was outclassed in light of Iron Man and Thor's fight. But by Civil War, he's going toe to toe against Iron Man.
post #780 of 864
Yeah but Cap only has Super Soldier serum for like a year during World War 2 before he's an icecube.

Then he's only thawed out a year before events in Avengers.

Civil War takes place 4 years after Avengers. Lots of training time and learning how to fight someone like Iron Man.

So there!
post #781 of 864
a fine no-prize for you!
post #782 of 864
I feel empty.
post #783 of 864

On numbers alone Iron Man destroys Cap.  Spiderman too probably.  Cap's got a nice shield and 'heart' but that's it.

 

I think probably half of writing Civil War was finding ways to include all these characters and not have it be a wipe out  (as probably discussed ad nauseum elsewhere).  Step one: make Thor and Hulk disappear.  Step two come up with a raft of other conveniences...  Make Vision inexplicably busy the whole time.  Make Scarlet Witch still green and mostly mopey...aaand you're still stuck with Iron Man and so on at minumum.

Basically it took two supersoldiers in a confined space and a rusty (arf) and 'compromised by rage' Tony Stark to have Iron Man lose that fight.  Which I thought worked ok.

 

(They don't make judging this stuff easy though.  Iron Man is not invulnerable like some but a punch from him should still cave in a person's skull,  yet he's gotta hit people because it looks cool.  Comic books still comic books, even when they are movies, I guess)

post #784 of 864

Nah Cap absolutely kills Spidey.  He's a 14 year old just learning to swing.  Cap isn't as strong, but he's the greatest strategic mind on the planet, and that extends to his martial arts abilities.  Like Tony said very clearly, "If Cap wanted it, he'd kick your ass."

 

Caps biggest issue with Tony, which was well explored in Civil War, is Tony's mobility and flight.  Take that away and Cap can just smash Tony with his vibranium shield and kick some serious ass.  In a fist fight, even with the suit Cap is way way way better than Tony.  He's Cap.  In a fist fight he's better than anyone.  

 

The one possible exception is Black Panther, who appeared to be his equal.  

post #785 of 864

Well, it depends on the writer, of course, but Cap is supposed to be 'peak human athletic performance' (basically, he can do anything you can imagine an Olympian doing), while Spider-Man is lifting-ten-tons strong, with corresponding toughness. So Peter challenges Steve to a car-lifting contest, and while Steve struggles to pick up a sports car, Peter juggles family sedans.

 

I think it was pretty inconsistent how Spider-Man was a game-changing badass in Civil War, but here he can't go thirty seconds without fucking up.

post #786 of 864
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by avian View Post
 

I think it was pretty inconsistent how Spider-Man was a game-changing badass in Civil War, but here he can't go thirty seconds without fucking up.

 

He fucks up during the Winter Soldier and Falcon fight by not being aware of his surroundings, and ends the battle on the floor apologizing to Tony Stark because he's less proficient than the others on the battlefield. Seemed pretty consistent to me. 

post #787 of 864

Yeah, every encounter in the airport fight ends with Spidey losing:

 

Falcon knocks him out a window with Redwing.

Cap drops a giant crate on him and gets away.

Ant-Man sends him flying and KOed.

 

He has ups and downs. Just like in Homecoming.

post #788 of 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 

Nah Cap absolutely kills Spidey.  He's a 14 year old just learning to swing.  Cap isn't as strong, but he's the greatest strategic mind on the planet, and that extends to his martial arts abilities.  Like Tony said very clearly, "If Cap wanted it, he'd kick your ass."

 

Caps biggest issue with Tony, which was well explored in Civil War, is Tony's mobility and flight.  Take that away and Cap can just smash Tony with his vibranium shield and kick some serious ass.  In a fist fight, even with the suit Cap is way way way better than Tony.  He's Cap.  In a fist fight he's better than anyone.  

 

The one possible exception is Black Panther, who appeared to be his equal.  

 

I don't really disagree with any of this.  but all I'm saying is Spidey is technically a heck of a lot stronger and faster than Cap.

 

Iron Man's resilience is another one of those things.  You can rattle the guy inside to a degree, but anything that can withstand tank shells and falls from great heights etc isn't going to feel much from some guy's punches.  Even the best puncher regular old humanity can produce.  There's not supposed to be anything magical about Caps shield except that it can withstand and disperse any force applied to it.  That doesn't mean it can somehow hit with more force than the person swinging it.

 

But the relative damageability of the Iron Man suit and the impact of Cap's shield is something they vary a lot.  So we'll chuck that in the comic book pile.  (in the books there'd be a bubble with Tony saying, "This new armor is lighter and faster.  But not as tough as it used to be.  I've got to be careful". Paper over those cracks)

post #789 of 864
hehehe such stench
post #790 of 864

Cap is strong enough to hold a helicopter that's trying to take off. Quantify that as you will.

 

But I'd say the fight between Iron Man, Cap and Bucky at the end of Civil War feels logical and earned. They knock out Tony's flight and tracking capabilities almost immediately, and then target the ARC reactor specifically at that point. And even then it's a close fight.

post #791 of 864
hehehe the problem of trying to give these super characters moments where they have to show strains during feats of strength

all arbitrary from movie to movie

I also think the final fight in Civil War was earned

that movie took great efforts to make it so

straining so hard
post #792 of 864

A columnist I really love, Chris Sims, once made a great argument about specifically that issue #33 of Amazing Spider-Man. Basically, a big difference between DC and Marvel is DC takes pains to tell you how strong their characters are and then has to find ways to power them down. Marvel, however, goes out of its way to emphasize that their characters aren't strong, so that when you get a big moment like Spidey lifting his way out of the rubble it's all the more impressive. 

post #793 of 864

Iron Man could easily take out Cap and Spidey. Except in CIVIL WAR, it's explicitly acknowledged they're all holding back for most of the fight, with perhaps the exception of T'Challa going after Bucky. Even taking away the suit's flight capabilities, assuming everything else is in working order, Iron Man wins any no-holds-barred fight. 

 

We know from the first Iron Man all Tony needs to do is fire guided bullets and Cap would be a goner. Cap can't block every bullet, and he's not bullet proof. (And I'm 99% certain any projectiles Tony uses aren't going to be the "do the least amount of damage" kind.)

post #794 of 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzman View Post
Iron Man's resilience is another one of those things.  You can rattle the guy inside to a degree, but anything that can withstand tank shells and falls from great heights etc isn't going to feel much from some guy's punches.  Even the best puncher regular old humanity can produce. 

 

I mostly shrug it off but once in a while Tony's magical ability to recover from things like falling several hundred feet and hitting broken concrete and rock while wearing a metal suit does strain willing suspension of disbelief. I absolutely think Tony would design the suit to absorb as much as possible from any kind of impact, but no regular human being would be able to survive the kinds of falls and actions we've seen in the films.

post #795 of 864
Thread Starter 

Tony's suit has airbags inside. It's the only explanation besides magic. 

post #796 of 864

I feel like it was a missed opportunity post-Iron Man 3 that they didn't go the whole superhuman route with Tony by having the nanomachines emerge from his pores and the suit basically be an extension of his body:

 

 

That's pretty much the next level of escalation the character can go. And it explains why as a normal man he's surviving all the crap the suit gets through.

 

Maybe that's too out there for you tediously literal types.

post #797 of 864
Thread Starter 

What next? Is Spider-Man's suit going to turn black and come out of his body too?

 

Ohohohohohohoho.

 

Ridiculous. 

post #798 of 864

I seriously hope they get rid of the suit AI nonsense for the sequel. It worked alright in this movie - Connelly was fun and there were a couple of cute punched-up jokes - but it sort of fucked with Peter's character for me. He's not Iron Man. Part of the joy of his being an underdog is watching him figure shit out all on his own like a total doofus, and having Karen in his ear (except when convenient) didn't help that at all. It all felt like they weren't confident enough in their abilities to make the Spider-Man scenes interesting unless Peter had someone to talk to.

post #799 of 864

KAREN serves a particular purpose for the plot: she gives Peter someone to talk to. 

 

For a good portion of the movie Peter doesn't have a "guy at the computer," so imagine those long stretches of the movie where it's just Spider-Man alone. He doesn't have a partner with him, he has no one talking in his ear. There needs to be someone that can both dole out exposition and allow Spidey to dole out exposition. 

 

When you have solo Spidey with no one to talk to, that's when you get Andrew Garfield looking at YouTube videos about batteries. 

post #800 of 864

I am not a big superhero comic person so all the jokes about spidey in the suburbs were new to me.

 

Try again, nooj!

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