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THE SHAPE OF WATER Discussion - Page 2

post #51 of 92

I do remember thinking at the time that if Crimson Peak had been in Spanish people might've been more forgiving of it's low key hokeyness and... deliberate pacing. Foreign languages can trick you into adopting an 'arthouse' mindset and standards.

 

It's easily his best film in English, but it is pretty flawed and I can't pretend it wasn't a struggle to stay awake.

post #52 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
 

I do remember thinking at the time that if Crimson Peak had been in Spanish people might've been more forgiving of it's low key hokeyness and... deliberate pacing. Foreign languages can trick you into adopting an 'arthouse' mindset and standards.

 

I was talking about this with some friends who couldn't stand just how blatant the characters were laying out their subtext in Guardians 2...

 

and while such things may be hit and miss with me, I brought up just how much Crouching Tiger does the same thing (I had rewatched it recently).  It's another film with very little plot and a lot of characters talking about how they feel in various guarded ways (but without the cutesy humor and pop songs, y'see?)

 

But it's not in english, so it's cool!

 

 

Whenever similar conversations come up, that futurama quote from the Robot Devil is usually referred to.

 

"THAT MAKES ME FEEL AAAANGRY!!!"

post #53 of 92

Del Toro makes Michael Bay look like Ernst Lubitsch.  Very nice guy, but a hack.  Should have been an art director.  

post #54 of 92
Crimson Peak was not good.
post #55 of 92

I liked Crimson Peak!

 

not bad not bad

post #56 of 92
The wrong kind of incest.
post #57 of 92

I'm not a del Toro fan and even I wouldn't have the temerity to call the man a hack.

post #58 of 92
My beef with del Toro is his self-imposed policy of only doing films with monsters in them.

It would actually be challenging (and thus help him grow creatively) if he would, at least, make one film that went against said policy.
post #59 of 92

There are many "hacks" out there, but even at his worst and most self-indulgent, Guillermo Del Toro is anything but a hack. In fact it is partly the very self-indulgences and wild forays that display how much of a singular voice he is.

 

I liked Crimson Peak. Watched it again a few weeks ago at about 4:00 in the morning. The cinematography is rich, and any film that boasts Jim Beaver in a fairly sizable supporting part has to have something going for it. 

 

Del Toro struggles a bit with endings in general and Crimson Peak's grand guignol denouement was over-the-top in  a way that arguably diminished what had been a reasonably spooky gothic ill-fated love story. Chastain, Wasikowska and Hiddleston are all game and give vivid performances. 

post #60 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoirHeaven View Post
 

There are many "hacks" out there, but even at his worst and most self-indulgent, Guillermo Del Toro is anything but a hack. In fact it is partly the very self-indulgences and wild forays that display how much of a singular voice he is.

 

I liked Crimson Peak. Watched it again a few weeks ago at about 4:00 in the morning. The cinematography is rich, and any film that boasts Jim Beaver in a fairly sizable supporting part has to have something going for it. 

 

Del Toro struggles a bit with endings in general and Crimson Peak's grand guignol denouement was over-the-top in  a way that arguably diminished what had been a reasonably spooky gothic ill-fated love story. Chastain, Wasikowska and Hiddleston are all game and give vivid performances. 

 

Suit yourself.  I just can't respect filmmakers who habitually select or write poor scripts.  

post #61 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurkeyJot View Post
 

 

Suit yourself.  I just can't respect filmmakers who habitually select or write poor scripts.  

Well that's a different matter altogether. 

 

I actually agree with you that Del Toro's screenplays tend to be weak and doughy with an overemphasis on archetypes. 

 

Even Pan's Labyrinth, which many regard as his masterpiece, has a merely all right screenplay to its name. 

post #62 of 92

I'd say the stories and scripts to Cronos, The Devil's Backbone, and Pan's Labyrinth are all decidedly better than average.

 

In regards to narrative ideas and themes and the way each story taps into mythos in unique and sometimes poignant ways, I think those three are good to great.

 

His other movies... not so much. Or you can start to see what he was going for, but the final product just isn't focused enough to deliver and the writing is too weak in general to make it work despite that.

 

But The Shape of Water really strikes me as a film that knows exactly what it wants to do and does it, with the power of GdT's imagination behind it. That's why I am pumped for it. It looks very much of the vein of his three best films, but not in any way rehashing what made any one of those films work.

post #63 of 92

Can't believe TurkeyJot missed the chance to type "Harrumph" up there. Internet goobers who brag about their high standards are very funny, unbeknownst to them.

post #64 of 92

New trailer. Red Band. I guess for a single "fuck?"

 

I like GDT, and I am having a very tough time getting hyped for this.  I just cannot shake why he's making a movie about Abe Sapien.

post #65 of 92

It's like he had a bunch of left over Abe Sapien prosthetics and make-up lying around and said "Eh... fuck it."

 

But the egg thing in the trailer totally makes it. There must be some sort of connection, or GdT is just getting lazy and doesn't give a shit.

post #66 of 92

Got to see this today. Pretty handily my favorite of GDT's English films, in large part thanks to the cast. Hawkins, Jenkins, and Shannon are particularly wonderful (Shannon is in full Boardwalk Empire-mode here, but he gives the role his all). Jones does terrific work behind the make-up too. For all the talk about Abe Sapien, this is 100% GDT working out everything he would've wanted to do with his putative Beauty and the Beast film. It's a big, primary-colors fairy tale, gorgeously directed and designed from top to bottom.

post #67 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dent6084 View Post

Got to see this today. Pretty handily my favorite of GDT's English films, in large part thanks to the cast. Hawkins, Jenkins, and Shannon are particularly wonderful (Shannon is in full Boardwalk Empire-mode here, but he gives the role his all). Jones does terrific work behind the make-up too. For all the talk about Abe Sapien, this is 100% GDT working out everything he would've wanted to do with his putative Beauty and the Beast film. It's a big, primary-colors fairy tale, gorgeously directed and designed from top to bottom.

Can't think of a more resounding endorsement than that. Thanks Dent, I'll now make sure to watch this.
post #68 of 92

Thanks. GDT is a filmmaker who I run pretty hot and cold on (I have very mixed feelings about both Pacific Rim and Crimson Peak, for instance), but I really, really enjoyed this one.

 

I also seriously hope that Richard Jenkins doesn't get left out of the awards conversation for this. Shannon's definitely got the flashy villain role and he does his thing quite well, but Jenkins is so, so good here as Hawkins' closeted artist friend. It's just lovely, understated and touching work.

 

One of the better things about the movie, I think, is that it takes the time to dig a little into the lives of each one of the main characters away from the story (Octavia Spencer gets a little bit of the short end of the stick in this regard, unfortunately, but she's still terrific nonetheless). It invests time in them as people, not just plot devices, so that when everyone's story starts to collide you're fully engaged and you understand why each one of them does what they do, without it feeling superfluous (this is definitely an element I can see not working for everyone, but it worked for me). It still very much functions as a fairy tale/parable, but everyone's just a bit more well-rounded than they would usually be in a film of this ilk.

post #69 of 92
Simply wonderful. Every shot is a carefully designed work of art. A masterpiece. See it on a big screen.
post #70 of 92
I don't get the limited release/expansion strategy sometimes. Get it out there now, before Star Wars decimates everything on the 15th.

My local indie theater with a small screen lists it as coming soon, after they finish playing Lady Bird, Thelma, and Call Me By Your Name.
post #71 of 92

Alexandre Desplat's score is so, so good. He's one of the most interesting and versatile composers working today, IMO.

 

post #72 of 92
I went and saw this on a whim tonight. It's pretty good. I'd sort of drifted away from being a mega GDT fanboy after Pacific Rim and Crimson Peak didn't set my world on fire. But this is a great Universal monster movie that isn't a Universal monster movie. Michael Shannon is outstanding in this.

And Sally Hawkins is the most adorable person ever in the history of adorable.
post #73 of 92

Can't wait to see it!

post #74 of 92
It's like the first "Fillum" with a capital "F" that I'd seen in a while. I've been so busy watching schlock with a lower case "s."
post #75 of 92

that's great!

post #76 of 92
C'mon, Big City America chewers! One of you must've gone to see this. It's selling too many tickets.
post #77 of 92
I saw it, Doc!
post #78 of 92

I saw it as well.

 

I recommend seeing it.

post #79 of 92

Are the charges of plagiarism true? Did Guillermo Del Toro plagiarize, in essence, from a celebrated 2015 student short film called The Space Between Us?

 

 

post #80 of 92
I'll say coincidence. Del Toro has been very clear that he's been developing the script and the Amphibious Man design since 2014, paying for pre-production out of his pocket. Plus, he's been continually crediting author Daniel Kraus who sold him the initial idea of a janitor in a lab who meets a captured creature from the Amazon.

Yes, there are some awkward similarities (which, in these increasingly ugly Oscar seasons, will probably be exploited by the competition) but there are also so many differences. There's no real love story here, no social observations, no Cold War spy stuff, etc. And one could easily point out the visual similarities to the Doug Jones/Selma Blair scene in 2004's Hellboy.

So far, the only "charges of plagiarism" I'm seeing online are from people chattering on reddit, whatever that's worth. Until the filmmakers of the short say anything about it, I don't think it's a real issue. But I'd hate to think anyone here is going to see The Shape Of Water with some kind of plagiarism measuring stick in their mind.
post #81 of 92
well this was just wonderful
post #82 of 92
I told my coworkers that I saw this and they were like, "What's that?"
post #83 of 92
Bradito's coworkers have just been narrowed down to: everyone's coworkers.
post #84 of 92
and yes

Sally Hawkins IS insanely adorable
post #85 of 92
"It's about a lady who falls in love with a fish-man."

*blank stares*
post #86 of 92
it's about michael shannon's SEXING FINGERS!!!
post #87 of 92
Oh God, his fingers!
post #88 of 92
here

smell them yo

it's hellatight
post #89 of 92
I'll smell them on my candy break.
post #90 of 92

(crunches)

post #91 of 92
Such a great character. Best villain of 2017 that isn't in the White House.
post #92 of 92

such great performances in this all around

 

(hands on hips)

 

I love the way the scene in the Cadillac dealership is shot

 

the salesman just rotating into view already shilling

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