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MINDHUNTER on Netflix

post #1 of 80
Thread Starter 

A new 70s serial killer drama from David Fincher, who directs 3 episodes:

 

Pretty exciting. Just the look of the thing screams Fincher. I'm on board for Zodiac: The TV Show.

post #2 of 80

Been waiting a while for this one. Jazzed to see Holt McCallany front and center on a show like this.

post #3 of 80
I read the book this is based on when I was 14. The author, John E. Douglas (the FBI director in Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs is based on him), is an interesting guy who claims that David Berkowitz flat-out confessed to him before anyone that the whole talking dog thing was bullshit.

I also think he's an egotistical prick with a ghoulish sense of humor after reading what he did to Scott Glenn during SOTL (where he was a consultant).
post #4 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

I also think he's an egotistical prick with a ghoulish sense of humor after reading what he did to Scott Glenn during SOTL (where he was a consultant).

 

Well you can't just leave that hanging there.

 

The show looks great though, October's gonna be huge for Netflix.

post #5 of 80

Anna Torv! I'm in.

post #6 of 80
It's actually pretty upsetting, so I'm going to omit some details. Glenn was hanging with Douglas to get a feel for how to play Jack Crawford and at some point, Douglas let Glenn listen to audio tapes made by a serial killer. These audio tapes contained the sounds of the killer and his victims, the latter in their last moments of life. Glenn says that it gave him nightmares for months (and still marks him to this day) and when he confronted Douglas about why he was made to listen to it, Douglas cavalierly said something like: "Welcome to my world, buddy!"

Those tapes were never made public, but I read the first couple of lines from court transcripts and yes, even my reading what Glenn (and jurors) heard, was a fucking nightmare. I stopped reading the transcripts about five or six lines in.

If you have even the slightest bit of morbid curiosity, I recommend that you do not pursue those transcripts. Reading it will add nothing to your life and might indeed strip a little bit of it away.
post #7 of 80

I actually think the line was more theatrical - it was "Now you are part of my world." Fuckin' John Douglas.

 

I'm with Johnny in that I don't have a great opinion of the guy - particularly after reading the Gladwell piece about his profiling techniques - but I love Fincher/Zodiac, and this looks right in my wheelhouse. I'm a sucker for that period when police officers and law enforcement was trying to figure out how to respond to this new type of killer. My hope is that it's an adaptation in name/concept only. 

 

It also reminds me a lot of Hannibal in I hope there's an opportunity for character actors to embody some of these killers in a more realistic fashion than we've seen before. 

 

Finally, I hope that the show fleshes out the female characters a little more than the trailer suggests, as it could very easily turn into Criminal Minds-esque exploitation. 

post #8 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd40 View Post

Anna Torv! I'm in.
Yes! That actually excites me more than Fincher's name being on this.
post #9 of 80
After reading about and seeing the real stuff in my teens and ealy twenties, serial killer narratives have become difficult for me to get into. I need a distinct layer of unreality (like slasher movies) to inoculate myself from some of the cases that are burned into my brain.

I'm not going to turn my personal discomfort into an excuse to pre-judge the show, but there it is.
post #10 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

After reading about and seeing the real stuff in my teens and ealy twenties, serial killer narratives have become difficult for me to get into. I need a distinct layer of unreality (like slasher movies) to inoculate myself from some of the cases that are burned into my brain.

I'm not going to turn my personal discomfort into an excuse to pre-judge the show, but there it is.

 

You and I are on the same page to an extent. I took a class on true crime writing in college where I did a lot of research into Israel Keyes, thinking about writing a book on it. The transcripts of his confessions alone are things my wife wouldn't let me have in the house. 

post #11 of 80

On the flip-side, I'm glad that an out actor like Jonathan Groff (HBO's severely undercooked, could have been a hit show, Looking) is getting work on a high profile TV show spearheaded by a high profile filmmaker. I suppose that's something worth acknowledging.

post #12 of 80
Jacknife where did you read the Glen story from LAMBS? N

EDIT never mind I found the randomn roles article.
post #13 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post

Jacknife where did you read the Glen story from LAMBS?

The conversation above inspired me to look it up.

 

Don't.

 

EDIT: To clarify, I read about 3 lines of the transcripts referenced and said "nope."

post #14 of 80
Thanks to my never ending morbid curiosity, I managed to read almost the entire transcript...

...yeah, I'm an idiot.
post #15 of 80

I figured as much and I should not have bothered. The more you protest against something, the more people want to do that thing. You guys can do as you please, but I'd rather not see a discussion about what's in those transcripts break out on the boards (and do not link it). Keep that shit to yourselves because I don't want to think about it. 

post #16 of 80
Out on Friday. Good Q&A:

https://youtu.be/N97dV6JlUEc
post #17 of 80

Looking forward to this.

 

As an aside, I never had a problem with JacknifeJohnny at all, but his post above is probably a good example of him shutting down a potential conversation because it would bother him personally.

post #18 of 80

I'm three deep and this is pretty great.

 

It doesn't have the same amount of dread hanging over it that ZODIAC does, but it is very much in the same vein.

 

More of an academic/exploratory vibe.  The Edmund interviews are definitely a highlight.

post #19 of 80
First 2 episodes were really good. It's a nice change to have a TV show with interesting dialogue once in a while.

Why's Netflix gotta be hatin on the end credits music with the autoskip? I hit the button and let Psycho Killer play out.
post #20 of 80

I kept seeing promo artwork for this on Netflix and completely wrote it off as a new season of that goofy-looking show MindHorn.

post #21 of 80
Watched the first two episodes and found everything to be very well done. Great performances all around, I love the time period. Fincher is such a pro at telling these stories. The first meeting with Ed was incredibly tense.
post #22 of 80
Anna Torv's haircut here had her looking eerily similar to Carrie Coon at first.
post #23 of 80

Thought I'd check out an episode or two when I hit the sack last night around midnight. Next thing I know it's getting light outside.

 

It's not gonna blow anybody away or anything, but it's creepily addicting, and very well put together.

 

Not really a spoiler, just an observation on the intro bits in Kansas, but you never know who gets upset at this shit, so...

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
That's the BTK killer they're showing building his process, right?

 

I'll be finishing up the series tonight for sure.

post #24 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
That's the BTK killer they're showing building his process, right?

 

Yes.

post #25 of 80

I've seen the first three, but the lead is still not working for me. I can't stop picturing Gyllenhaal in the role and it being so much better. Holt McCallany, as always, is great though.

post #26 of 80
Holden Ford?

WTF?

This will probably mean nothing to those outside the Antipodes but you would struggle to put two more diametrically opposed names together. Here you're either a Ford person, or a Holden person. And there is no love lst between the two.

Anyway, first ep was good. Finding the lead and his gf a little stilted though.
post #27 of 80

"Hello, I'm Holden Ford and this is my partner, Mercedes Mitsubishi."


Edited by AtomTastic - 10/14/17 at 11:43am
post #28 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
That's the BTK killer they're showing building his process, right?

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I had to look up Park City, Kansas - Serial Killer in Google because I had no idea which serial killer it was.  The picture on the wiki page and everything associated, yeah, that's who it is.

 

Side note : I've never binged a show this quickly before.  So good.

post #29 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bain View Post

Anyway, first ep was good. Finding the lead and his gf a little stilted though.

 

Their conversations in the first episodes are definitely voiced with a staccato, Mamet-like delivery. It doesn't really carry over into their relationship as the show progresses, but I liked it.

 

Anna Torv should be getting A-list parts.

post #30 of 80
They're definitely going for that dialogue style in the beginning of the first ep and thank God in tapers off. Because the bar sequence-- Ford and the Professor laying out the previous 15 years of crime and societal disintegration like it's the first time people said those things out loud, followed hard by the girlfriend meet-cute that has the rhytm of people saying clever things but aren't really clever at all-- is laughably awful and really hurts the verisimilitude that they're shootimg for. But by the time Tench shows up they find a good balance of dialogue that is smart and funny, but believably said by real humans.

I'm digging it 2 eps in. I've kept running across Ed Kemper's name tagentially in things I've read for years and always had to remind myself who he is and what his crimes were. Not going to have that problem now.
post #31 of 80
Started it tonight, gonna be really hard to stop and go to bed without finishing this thing in one go.
post #32 of 80

As it goes on it feels more and more like a really slick SVU, especially the principal tickling subplot. 

post #33 of 80

Man this show really doubles down on my least favorite trope of authority figures impeding the characters from moving the plot forward.

post #34 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomTastic View Post
 

Man this show really doubles down on my least favorite trope of authority figures impeding the characters from moving the plot forward.


completely agree on this. That whole plot line is my least favorite parts in this show. Everything else feels so perfect...

post #35 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomTastic View Post
 

Man this show really doubles down on my least favorite trope of authority figures impeding the characters from moving the plot forward.

 

Well, it's based on actual events, no? How many established governmental agencies are open and encouraging of new procedures?

post #36 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
 

Looking forward to this.

 

As an aside, I never had a problem with JacknifeJohnny at all, but his post above is probably a good example of him shutting down a potential conversation because it would bother him personally.


I guess it's a moot point now with JJ's departure. I didn't follow up on finding/reading that material, but it may be like a case of someone warning you in advance that your tongue will stick to that frozen metal pipe, but you need to find out for yourself only to realize you should have heeded the warning after all.

post #37 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
 

 

Well, it's based on actual events, no? How many established governmental agencies are open and encouraging of new procedures?

I'd say just because something is true, doesn't mean it makes for interesting drama.

post #38 of 80

This was hard for me to wrap my head around.  I liked alot of it in pieces, it's well acted, looks great and there's plenty of intrigue.  But I feel like it starts drowning in its own minutiae after a while and there are some odd characterization choices. 

 

Ana Torv is barely a character and isn't developed beyond smart but bitchy lesbian who likes to feed stray cats. 

 

Holt McCallany is the MVP, and his portrayal of Bill was by far my favorite.... he carries alot of the show on his back.

 

Jonathan Groff as Holden was a bit harder to suss out.  He's a naive boyscout, but is the least bothered by pushing boundaries.  That contradiction is not really explored in any meaningful way, so it ends up coming off as muddled and underdeveloped. 

 

There's alot of convoluted gender politics and ideas I don't think were very successfully developed.  The way men and women interact during that time period and the rules of discourse and communication with regard to deviant subject matter was fascinating, but again it felt somewhat undercooked in the execution.  Overall it is a show that feels wildly inconsistent and something that could've used a bit more incisive clarity in the development of the ideas. 

 

There is a scene where Holden's girlfriend is obviously fooling around with her classmate in the dark, Holden catches her and she looks guilty and chases after him as he storms out.  Later he finds her at a laundrymat and goes in, and the scene cuts.  Then we see them getting along like nothing ever happened.  The show is filled with these bizarre dramatic choices.  Obviously they patched things up, but the fact that we don't see that happen is jarring.  Instead of feeling fresh or edgy, it just feels like there's a scene missing.  There is also a bit of Holden having a crush on Wendy (Ana Torv) in the beginning, but it doesn't go anywhere and his attraction to her just evaporates.  It's possibly because she's cold and resistant, but it's never delved into, so it comes off muddled, unclear.

 

I had higher hopes for this since Fincher was involved, but maybe he wasn't involved enough.

post #39 of 80

7 Episode in and I'm really enjoying this so far but goddamn every scene with Holden and his girlfriend is a fucking chore to sit through. I find when it comes to these types of shows I just don't have any time for relationship stuff unless it's compelling as all hell or is directly tied into the narrative.

post #40 of 80
Quote:
FINCHER/MINDHUNTER INTERVIEW:  "No, now. Look at ‘All The President’s Men‘ — everything is character. Now, movies are about saving the world from destruction. 
 
“The cinema isn’t dead. It just does something different. The place is still filled with kids, it’s just they’re all on their phones. It’s a social event like a bonfire, and the movie is the bonfire. It’s why people gather but it’s not actually there to be looked at,” Fincher said. “Because the bonfire is always the same.”

 

Source

post #41 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post
 

7 Episode in and I'm really enjoying this so far but goddamn every scene with Holden and his girlfriend is a fucking chore to sit through. I find when it comes to these types of shows I just don't have any time for relationship stuff unless it's compelling as all hell or is directly tied into the narrative.

 

I also feel like the girlfriend isn't a great actress.  Maybe it's just her weird, stoic delivery.  She kind of reminds of Sasha Grey in terms of acting style, which isn't a compliment.

post #42 of 80
I just finished it this morning and good god, I am super excited for season 2. Added the soundtrack to my Spotify. The way they interweave the past crimes, a crime currently under investigation and the hints of a crime yet to happen is great storytelling.
post #43 of 80
What is with the relationship subplots in this show? Padding the runtime? Its not what we signed up for.
post #44 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
 

 

I also feel like the girlfriend isn't a great actress.  Maybe it's just her weird, stoic delivery.  She kind of reminds of Sasha Grey in terms of acting style, which isn't a compliment.

 

She was definitely the weak link on the show, both in terms of characterization and in terms of acting ability of the performer.  I hope that we're completely done with that character, as I don't want her back for S2.

post #45 of 80
I could see the relationship angle being a template as to show how the sexual deviancy that the investigators go into detail studying could affect them outside of work. A few scenes go into detail as to how it does.
post #46 of 80
Narratively, the relationship stuff ends up being less than the sum of its parts.
post #47 of 80

Relationship stuff is inevitable on these things because they need a social life to cut to after the work scenes, since it's a drama for the most part.  I wasn't bored with the relationship stuff but I wasn't very engaged by it either.  I think Holden should be single in S2 though... he's a guy who seems more like a loner anyway.  True Detective S1 handled that stuff well.

post #48 of 80

I should say: the Bill Tench relationship/family worked much better, probably because all of the parts were played by better actors.  That relationship feels like it's heading to a predictable place (divorce), but there's still enough there to warrant interest, and the season spent just enough time on that relationship to provide the right amount of character back story to the Tench character.

post #49 of 80
I agree Ford should be single in S2, and I’m hoping they decide to go that route. The stuff with Tench and his son could conceivably lead to some melodramatic BS that I hope they don’t try to dabble TOO much in.
post #50 of 80
But if you focus on the Tench family too much you’ll lose those perfunctory sex scenes no one asked for.
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