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wtf is the latest gaming outrage about? - Page 4

post #151 of 277
EA just released a statement that they are cutting down the hero requirements for Battlefront 2 by 75%, due to all the backlash. Um, huzzah?
post #152 of 277

That still doesn't fix the underlying problem, which is that you have to grind to unlock heroes in the first place. In a normal multiplayer shooter where the gameplay was designed by developers, not marketing executives, everyone would get to be a hero once or twice per match.

 

Anyways, it sounds like we need a spreadsheet to manage our outrage over different games here. There are distinct different categories. All lootboxes are not created equal.

 

Overwatch/Call Of Duty WW2: Cosmetic Only. I don't really get the hubbub here. Nobody needs Overwatch skins for anything. "But think of the children!". If parents let their kids use their credit card for this stuff, that's their responsibility.

 

Forza 7: No actual microtransactions yet. Technically the in game economy is based on Loot Crates, but you can't buy them with real money.

 

The 'Gambling' argument: I don't get that either. When I hear the word 'gambling', I think of the chance to win money. Virtual doodads aren't resellable for cash in most games.

 

Is Diablo 3 'predatory' because every time you click on a monster, you don't know if it's going to give you good loot or not? The grinding for mystery loot is the point of the game, as it is in many other games. A lot of what people are describing as predatory just sounds to me like the definition of what video games are.

post #153 of 277

Because EA are greedy useless dicks they failed to mention that the rewards are also going down by 75%.

 

I will not be sad when EA goes out of business.

post #154 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by CD Underbelly View Post

EA just released a statement that they are cutting down the hero requirements for Battlefront 2 by 75%, due to all the backlash. Um, huzzah?

 

No. Because they also massively cut the amount of Credits you actually win by playing.

 

Quote:
 For instance, during my review, completing the campaign earned players a unique loot crate that contained 20,000 credits. That reward is now 5,000 credits. A big change. What else is different? I need to find out. One thing I hope EA is addressing is Arcade rewards; after completing five challenges, I was alerted that I could no longer earn credits in this mode and that more would be available in 14 hours.
 

 

They're cutting the hero requirement, but the reward for the grind is kneecapped to such a degree it's the exact same problem as before. They're "making changes" without actually changing anything. Do not fall for it. 

post #155 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename View Post

after completing five challenges, I was alerted that I could no longer earn credits in this mode and that more would be available in 14 hours.

Isn't this Farmville's exact business model? Imposing a cooldown on your ability to get stuff done in the hopes that you'll whip out your credit card to keep the game going?
post #156 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Reese View Post

 

The 'Gambling' argument: I don't get that either. When I hear the word 'gambling', I think of the chance to win money. Virtual doodads aren't resellable for cash in most games.

 

Is Diablo 3 'predatory' because every time you click on a monster, you don't know if it's going to give you good loot or not? The grinding for mystery loot is the point of the game, as it is in many other games. A lot of what people are describing as predatory just sounds to me like the definition of what video games are.

 

It's gambling, in the sense that you are spending money without a guaranteed return of something of equal value. Sometimes you get something crazy good, most times you get jackshit. That's gambling. 

 

As for Diablo 3, I don't know why you bring that up but since all it's rewards are ONLY available through playing the game...it's not really applicable. I mean, that's all we want Battlefront 2 to be. But since you did bring it up when that game launched it did so with an Auction House where in-game items COULD earn you real world money...and it blew up in Blizzard's face. 

post #157 of 277

Someone called it months ago:

 

Quote:
 Here's what will happen:

EA already knew it would go down like this. They knew from the getgo people wouldn't like these kind of RNG progression crates. So they release a worse version of them during the open beta.

Why? It's a tactic. Right now, everyone is upset. What will happen next is that EA/Dice will come out with a "We heard you!" statement and they will "fix" the loot crates by making them slightly less RNG and pay-to-win before launch.

This will then end in tons of people going "Alright, they actually listened, time to preorder again!". People will feel like they got a compromise, it's like a small victory in their minds and it makes them forget about the initial goal of the company to begin with (moving over to loot crate progression). It wouldn't be the first time a company did something like this. Starting off with something in a worse state and then slightly improving it leaves everyone with a better taste in their mouths and they are more willing to then ignore the fact that those RNG crates in this case are in the game to begin with.

People underestimate the intelligence of the people at work there, they know how to manipulate the "general sentiment" around their games and additions like these, that are not liked by most but will make them lots of money. Just watch and see. We'll soon hear from them.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post


Isn't this Farmville's exact business model? Imposing a cooldown on your ability to get stuff done in the hopes that you'll whip out your credit card to keep the game going?

 

Indeed! That's the main tale of the last few years. AAA developers saw the insane amounts of money Mobile games were making off of 'whales' and went...I want that.

post #158 of 277

Yes, the Diablo 3 Auction House thing was pretty bad at the time. I played it from launch through to the release of the expansion when they disabled it, so I saw all the various stages. The early drop rates for Legendaries were basically non-existent. After the AH closed and RoS came out, that summer was like loot candyland. Blizzard went through all the extremes with D3.

 

As far as regulation on loot boxes, I can't get too entheusiastic about the endgame for that either. Being able to buy Star Card power ups a la carte in Battlefront wouldn't make their effect on gameplay any less crappy. It would just make it a little cheaper for the people that were planning to spend money on microtransactions in the game.

post #159 of 277
It's still always a pleasant little surprise when I launch Battle.net and see Diablo III downloading an upgrade. I only have that game because Blizzard gave it away for free if you maintained your WoW subscription.

They also threw a horse into the deal. I'm not big on mount collecting, but Tyrael's Charger is a beautiful fucking horse.
post #160 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Reese View Post

 

The 'Gambling' argument: I don't get that either. When I hear the word 'gambling', I think of the chance to win money. Virtual doodads aren't resellable for cash in most games.

 

I don't get why this is so hard to understand.  Gambling is betting something for the chance to win something else, with no guarantee you will win what you want, which leads to more betting.  Winning actual cash is practically irrelevant.  You are still spending money or spending something of value.  This targets a specific part of the brain related to addiction and can be extremely dangerous to an adult mind, let alone the mind of a fucking child.  There is a deeper psychological process going on and game developers are exploiting it in children.  It's criminal.

 

EDIT: Or what Codename said.

post #161 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headless Fett View Post

Because EA are greedy useless dicks they failed to mention that the rewards are also going down by 75%.

Goddamit
post #162 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headless Fett View Post

Haven't played an EA game in years and it looks like that won't be changing for the foreseeable future.


Outside of the Titanfall games and maybe Shadow of the Damned you really aren't missed anything if you haven't played an EA game in the past six or seven years.
post #163 of 277
Thread Starter 

I'm kind of looking forward to Anthem but this whole mess has made me think twice. If they fuck that game up with the same bullshit, I'm going to be mega-pissed. (Hopefully the fact it's more of a PVE game means it's less likely, but you never know....)

post #164 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post

I kind of looking forward to Anthem but this whole mess has made me think twice. If they fuck that game up with the same bullshit, I'm going to be mega-pissed. (Hopefully the fact it's more of a PVE game means it's less likely, but you never know....)

Well first we need to see if Bioware can actual make a good game, specifically a third person shooter. They've been making the Mass Effect games for ten years and never once in that time have they made one that doesn't play like shit.
post #165 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename View Post

It's gambling, in the sense that you are spending money without a guaranteed return of something of equal value. Sometimes you get something crazy good, most times you get jackshit. That's gambling. 

As for Diablo 3, I don't know why you bring that up but since all it's rewards are ONLY available through playing the game...it's not really applicable. I mean, that's all we want Battlefront 2 to be. But since you did bring it up when that game launched it did so with an Auction House where in-game items COULD earn you real world money...and it blew up in Blizzard's face. 

Thats not really gambling, as you're still always getting something. It's more like buying a pack of Magic cards or something.

The funny thing about the Diablo 3 Auction House is it was something the user base wanted back during Diablo 2 when people were selling shit online. It during that time it sounded like something they'd need not to get in trouble in South Korea. The problem with the Auction House wasn't the Auctuin House itself, but the drop rate of certain types of items in the original PC version, and that the game is always online. If the drop rates had been more like the console version, and there was an offline mode, people probably wouldn't have given a shit about the Auction House being there.
post #166 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post
 

I'm kind of looking forward to Anthem but this whole mess has made me think twice. If they fuck that game up with the same bullshit, I'm going to be mega-pissed. (Hopefully the fact it's more of a PVE game means it's less likely, but you never know....)

 

Oh, they're definitely going to fuck that up. Much as it pains me to say. I mean, they're spectacularly fucking up STAR WARS of all fucking things. Will be the first Bioware game I won't be purchasing in...fuck, decades. I've been supporting that company since Baldur's Gate 2. It fucking suuuuuuucks. 

 

 

post #167 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimBOB View Post

Thats not really gambling, as you're still always getting something. It's more like buying a pack of Magic cards or something. .

I raised this point earlier in the thread, and someone rightly said this comparison only holds water if loot box items have some kind of resale value. And outside of Steam (and only for certain games?), they don’t.
post #168 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimBOB View Post


Thats not really gambling, as you're still always getting something.

 

If you sit at a slot machine and they bring you free drinks (they do) I suppose you are not gambling since you're always getting something, right?

 

Dude, gambling involves possibility and hidden results, producing a dopamine rush when you get something you like, but it also slowly makes you build a tolerance to said rush, causing you to need more and more of it just to function.  Getting "something" doesn't stop you from spending more and more money to keep getting "something" else you might like.  It activates the same part of the brain as drug and alcohol addiction and is incredibly dangerous.  Do I have to keep reminding why this isn't a good idea for young developing minds?

post #169 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimBOB View Post

Thats not really gambling, as you're still always getting something. It's more like buying a pack of Magic cards or something.

The funny thing about the Diablo 3 Auction House is it was something the user base wanted back during Diablo 2 when people were selling shit online. It during that time it sounded like something they'd need not to get in trouble in South Korea. The problem with the Auction House wasn't the Auctuin House itself, but the drop rate of certain types of items in the original PC version, and that the game is always online. If the drop rates had been more like the console version, and there was an offline mode, people probably wouldn't have given a shit about the Auction House being there.

Right. Diablo III's auction house was a sound idea on paper. Players had made money off of Blizzard's intellectual property by selling their Diablo II loot to each other on third party websites, and reasonable arguments were made that Blizzard had the right to bring that market into a realm where they could get a piece of the action. It was only after the Auction House became a business model that affected gameplay that things turned sour. Player sentiment turned sour so immediately that the auction house wasn't even included in Diablo III's console ports.
post #170 of 277
Thread Starter 
post #171 of 277

Seemingly that's standard practice for EA on pre-orders, but still, amazing timing. The way to get a refund at the moment is through Live Chat. That's a 1 hour waiting queue. As Reddit notes, for the 'sense of accomplishment'.

post #172 of 277

Scuttlebutt is they've lost up to 70,000 Pre-Orders that have been cancelled. That's about $4.2 Million in lost revenue. 

 

Yub nub, motherfuckers. 

post #173 of 277
Quote:

That's a phone call to the Better Business Bureau waiting to happen.
post #174 of 277

I wonder if the optics of this could get so bad Disney ends their partnership, and just has Lucasarts do all the Star Wars games from now on.

 

That would be a hell of a thing.

post #175 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos Orange View Post
 

I wonder if the optics of this could get so bad Disney ends their partnership, and just has Lucasarts do all the Star Wars games from now on.

 

That would be a hell of a thing.

 

That's what I'm kinda hoping/expecting happens. Disney don't want you to fuck with their image. And the Mouse House will come down on you like the Wrath of God if you fuck with their image. 

post #176 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amos Orange View Post
 

I wonder if the optics of this could get so bad Disney ends their partnership, and just has Lucasarts do all the Star Wars games from now on.

 

That would be a hell of a thing.

 

There a Lucasarts still?  I know Disney didn't close the studio, but its has 0 developers working there right now and Lucasarts and games haven't gone too well since about 2005.

post #177 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

If you sit at a slot machine and they bring you free drinks (they do) I suppose you are not gambling since you're always getting something, right?

Dude, gambling involves possibility and hidden results, producing a dopamine rush when you get something you like, but it also slowly makes you build a tolerance to said rush, causing you to need more and more of it just to function.  Getting "something" doesn't stop you from spending more and more money to keep getting "something" else you might like.  It activates the same part of the brain as drug and alcohol addiction and is incredibly dangerous.  Do I have to keep reminding why this isn't a good idea for young developing minds?

Maybe if the slot machine is giving you free drinks anytime you don't win some money.
post #178 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename View Post
 

Scuttlebutt is they've lost up to 70,000 Pre-Orders that have been cancelled. That's about $4.2 Million in lost revenue. 

 

Yub nub, motherfuckers. 

 

post #179 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekT View Post

There a Lucasarts still?  I know Disney didn't close the studio, but its has 0 developers working there right now and Lucasarts and games haven't gone too well since about 2005.

No, they closed up LucasArts soon after buying up Lucasfilm, then sometime after Disney killed Disney Interactive Studios and what sounded like their very successful Disney Infinity. It seems that Disney has no interest in being in the video game business.

Yeah, 2005 is the last time LucasArt made a game internally that didn't turn out to be total garbage. Last games they did themselves were those unplayable Force Unleashed games.
post #180 of 277
Found on knowyourmeme.com:


post #181 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimBOB View Post


No, they closed up LucasArts soon after buying up Lucasfilm, then sometime after Disney killed Disney Interactive Studios and what sounded like their very successful Disney Infinity. It seems that Disney has no interest in being in the video game business.

Yeah, 2005 is the last time LucasArt made a game internally that didn't turn out to be total garbage. Last games they did themselves were those unplayable Force Unleashed games.

 

Just for the record they didn't outright close LucasArts, but only for licensing not as a desire to make games.  The big question, how much of a cut does Disney make from this, because if they aren't making anything from the lootbox side, Disney may be rethink their non videogame development strategy.

post #182 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekT View Post

Just for the record they didn't outright close LucasArts, but only for licensing not as a desire to make games.  The big question, how much of a cut does Disney make from this, because if they aren't making anything from the lootbox side, Disney may be rethink their non videogame development strategy.

It sure sounded like they closed it outright in back in 2013. It sounded like they completely shutdown the whole studio, and fired everyone that works there.

I think Marvel gets something like 10% of the sales from DLC for Marvel Vs Capcom Infinite. So maybe Disney / Lucasfilm is getting something like that from EA on top of whatever the licensing fee is. I doubt they're getting any cut of the actual game sales.
post #183 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimBOB View Post




It sure sounded like they closed it outright in back in 2013. It sounded like they completely shutdown the whole studio, and fired everyone that works there.

I think Marvel gets something like 10% of the sales from DLC for Marvel Vs Capcom Infinite. So maybe Disney / Lucasfilm is getting something like that from EA on top of whatever the licensing fee is. I doubt they're getting any cut of the actual game sales.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimBOB View Post




It sure sounded like they closed it outright in back in 2013. It sounded like they completely shutdown the whole studio, and fired everyone that works there.

I think Marvel gets something like 10% of the sales from DLC for Marvel Vs Capcom Infinite. So maybe Disney / Lucasfilm is getting something like that from EA on top of whatever the licensing fee is. I doubt they're getting any cut of the actual game sales.

 

As I said before its more of a licensing thing.  Probably some sort of paper company so the money didn't go outright to Disney come tax time.

post #184 of 277

Should also add for those who were hoping its so bad that Disney quits EA, it was a 10 year deal, so EA has about 6 years to right the ship even assuming Disney is angry.

post #185 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename View Post
 

 

That's what I'm kinda hoping/expecting happens. Disney don't want you to fuck with their image. And the Mouse House will come down on you like the Wrath of God if you fuck with their image. 


Yeah but....considering how Disney has treated its own gaming division, I don't think they care. I think they'll only step in if this significantly hurts sales.

 

Because if the whales are willing to buy the game, then I don't think they'll be too worried about it.

post #186 of 277
post #187 of 277
Thread Starter 

"You know what people love most about those free to play mobile games?"

"That they're mobile and free to play?"

"No, that they have to wait before they can play again if they don't pay any money."

"Oh, cool. Let's put that it in our $60 game!"

 

post #188 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimBOB View Post

video game business. Yeah, 2005 is the last time LucasArt made a game internally that didn't turn out to be total garbage. Last games they did themselves were those unplayable Force Unleashed games.

Bah, Force Unleashed is probably the best Jedi/Sith force powers simulator that there is. I had an absolute blast wit that game. Maybe you played the Wii version with is awful motion controls and non-existent physics?

I never bothered with the second one once I learned that it was rushed, only 4 hours long, with 2 of those hours spent retreading levels, and they sold a bunch of missing chapters as DLC. But the demo was nice. The gameplay was basically TFU on steroids, which is funny since TFU was already "Force User on steroids".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

Twitch streamer discovers a three-hour cooldown on earning credits in Arcade mode (some NSFW language, obviously).

Fucking wow. Fuck this game.
post #189 of 277

If EA was going to pull this shit, a good time to do it was maybe 2 or 3 years ago.

 

The timing is actually pretty perfect since the players are moving onto Battle Royal games anyways.  This is probably the last big year for games like like SWBF2 and CoD - Fortnite BR is here to stay and PUBG will be on XBO soon - hopefully it will also be on PS4 by this time next year.

 

And hey, I'll miss playing Battlefield, but seriously, I've played like 700 hours since BF3 and I think it's a good time to move on.  Hardline was awful, SWBF was meh and BF1 was OK - it's been FOUR YEARS since BF4.  Now that there's Pay 2 Win embedded into DICE games I'm gonna bone out.  My kid is getting older which means I'm gonna spend more time with Pokemon and Mario, and I'll play PUBG or Fortnite when I can get older friends to show up.

 

I think Disney parting ways from EA will pretty unceremonious.  Disney / EA is making hand over fist right now, but it's bad PR and this will likely be Disney's last big lootbox game on console.  It's less persistent revenue, but linear games are more Disney's style.  That tacked on single player to SWBF2 was probably Disney's idea - and they'll realize that games like Force Unleashed and Lego SW are wildly profitable without the bad PR.  Disney is likely on a five year contract with EA and then will start working with low-bid Asian developers, or maybe they'll keep EA on in a non-exclusive way to make kids games.

 

EA is like the music publishers in the 90s.  They're getting greedy and sloppy and they're pushing "content" over what the serious fans want, then using their partnerships with retail and media to circle jerk that content.  Remember all those shitty records in the 90s that would play constantly on radio and MTV and have huge billboards and store displays.  EA is playing with fire here.  Pretty soon they're going to make a few $100 million games that no one buys.

post #190 of 277


The EA/Lootbox hatred is getting stronger, lol. I saw this posted several times by parents on my fb feed, and twice on twitter this morning.

post #191 of 277
Damn.

It’s almost like children shouldn’t be given credit cards.

Or something.
post #192 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ska Oreo View Post
 


Yeah but....considering how Disney has treated its own gaming division, I don't think they care. I think they'll only step in if this significantly hurts sales.

 

Because if the whales are willing to buy the game, then I don't think they'll be too worried about it.

 

Like I said, I don't think they would step in on any "Our customers must be protected" grounds. They don't give a shit about us, I agree. 

 

But if the optics get bad enough that it makes Disney look bad, I think they will step in. I have to assume whatever agreement they have with EA has a clause that damage to the image of the property is cause for dismissal. It's like how Disney performers have about a million morality guidelines they need to abide by at all times. It's all about the image. Disney doesn't care that EA pulled this shit, they care that it affects their wholesome image. 

 

And if this happened with anything BUT Star Wars...we'd probably not see any pushback close to what is currently happening. Shit, Need for Speed: Payback is pulling the same shit and we don't here a peep about it. So in a way, I'm kind of glad it happened here. That a line is finally being drawn in the sand. 

post #193 of 277
Thread Starter 

Did you guys ever read Eurogamer's interview with a gaming whale who spent upwards of $20,000 in the last five years?

 

The funny part is where he talks about how he discovered there were items in a lootbox which hadn't been advertised and so his "moral fibre got involved" which apparently equated to him trying to charge back several thousands from Nexon, only to get banned from the game. Dear me. 

post #194 of 277
That right there is the problem. It's not children who have inexplicable applied for and been approved for credit cards buying all these DLC nonsense.

It's adult men.

$20,000?? If there is a god there will be a lot of explaining to do.
post #195 of 277

He can just give that money to me. In return I'll give him a cardboard box filled with sundry items I have lying around the house. Shit, I'll even make it two! 

post #196 of 277
Kids
are
fucking
stupid.

Game companies know what they are doing. So why are you arguing this Catartik?
post #197 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by catartik View Post

That right there is the problem. It's not children who have inexplicable applied for and been approved for credit cards buying all these DLC nonsense.

It's adult men.

$20,000?? If there is a god there will be a lot of explaining to do.


It's insane because he tries to justify his habits by claiming that it's all about being "competitive." You stay competitive by "playing the fucking game." If you need to drop money just to be able keep an even playing field, than that game is actively taking advantage of you. You don't get to preach about the evils of lootboxes while admiting that you spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on microtransactions. 

post #198 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongycore View Post

Kids
are
fucking
stupid.

Game companies know what they are doing. So why are you arguing this Catartik?


It's kids...but it's grown adults as well.

 

People with disposable income who need that instant gratification.

 

I mean, shit, I am an impulse spender, and even I don't really fuck with dlc all that much.

post #199 of 277
Anyone watch that Gamespot video earlier this week. Dude spent $90 on lootboxes and still only had half what was needed to buy Vader. Oof, lol. But that was before EA adjusted the prices.

Don't forget to tune into Reddit for the EA Battlefront AMA today, bring popcorn.
post #200 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongycore View Post

Kids
are
fucking
stupid.

Game companies know what they are doing. So why are you arguing this Catartik?

That’s a parenting issue plain and simple.

Look I'm not justifying what these companies are doing. Is it unethical? Absolutely. But they are businesses, and businesses find ways to make money. All of this outrage, it's pointing the finger in the wrong direction, because these companies are selling microtransactions because you are buying them.

To say Disney or EA are teaching children to gamble is inaccurate. Your responsibility, as a parent, is to tell your child "no" when they ask for you credit card to buy nonsense.

Gaming culture is the worst.
Edited by catartik - 11/15/17 at 10:20am
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