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post #51 of 124

Really think they missed an opportunity to capitalize on the, telegraphed from miles away, "Not a single one" (person died) plot twist, by not having the King at some point say something lilke "Now I'm the only one!" (who is left) on his knees, reaching for the sky, or something like it. 

 

As a result, I kept shouting "not a single one!" every few minutes to entertain myself and to keep my wife awake as she passed out halfway into the last episode.

 

The writing is truly getting awful.  The standoff with Carol was definitely a low point, with zero tension and loads of stupidity.

 

Also, no way would Shiva have died at the hands of the toxic waste zombies.  Put the same number of living people in the middle of a forest with a massive tiger and I am willing to bet that tiger gets out without a scratch.

post #52 of 124
Why was Shiva's sacrifice even necessary? All they had to do was keep walking away from the muck. Not to mention that she only managed to kill a walker or two. A fully grown tiger should have been tearing through those badly decomposed walkers like paper.

If you're going to get rid of the most expensive CGI element of the show, at least do it with some style.
post #53 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco Senior View Post

Why was Shiva's sacrifice even necessary? All they had to do was keep walking away from the muck. Not to mention that she only managed to kill a walker or two. A fully grown tiger should have been tearing through those badly decomposed walkers like paper.

If you're going to get rid of the most expensive CGI element of the show, at least do it with some style.

 

I caught a bad case of The Sads from that scene.  Yeah, I would have liked her to fight harder.  

 

She can now hunt all the deceased Walking Dead horses in the great beyond.  

post #54 of 124

Bungling a scene the screenplay lists as:

 

Tiger vs Zombies! (FUCK YEAH!!!)

 

should be a fireable offense. 

post #55 of 124
Ezekiel's actor was great in that scene, but the way it played out made no sense. Shiva wasn't saving them from imminent danger.
post #56 of 124

There's no way the budget would've allowed for a convincing CGI tiger kill fest. I'd almost rather they got a real tiger and let it rip apart a bunch of animatronic dummies. In fact I would rather watch that than anything on this show at this point.

post #57 of 124
Thread Starter 

The two boardroom meeting sequence scenes illustrated for the 1973497139th time that Ogg makes a better Negan than the guy they cast as Negan .

post #58 of 124
Ogg is great, but I can't envision him playing Negan as written.

I thought Jeffrey Dean Morgan brought his A-game and crushed those boardroom scenes. It was the first time he convincingly inhabited the character and showed why others would view him as the boss. It makes me think some of the issues so far have been more with the writing of Negan, because Morgan is really quite good when the writing is up to par.
post #59 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
 

The two boardroom meeting sequence scenes illustrated for the 1973497139th time that Ogg makes a better Negan than the guy they cast as Negan .

 

It's interesting that these two never share scenes together where it's just the two of them. I don't know if he'd be a better Negan, but I do find Simon to be a better character.  

post #60 of 124

Hmm, Fear the Walking Dead is getting new showrunners, a soft reset on its story, Lennie James and Garret Dillahunt.

 

I haven't watched either series since Fear season 1, but that's going to be hard to resist.

post #61 of 124
Thread Starter 

I just ... where do I start?

 

After my spirits were raised by the best episode (IMHO) since the premiere of Season 7, my hopes are receding again after viewing the two episodes that followed it. 

 

I actually had to turn this off when Rick goes to talk to the Garbage Pail Kids again.  I mean, for the love of get to fuck.  Everything about his dealings with them have just been terrible, terrible writing, and this was no exception.  Plus, it makes Rick look like a complete idiot.  They're wrecking his character this season, with his stupid face-off with the saviors in Episode 1 (in which 50 people with rifles can't kill five or six people standing 20-30 yards away, and inexplicably choose not to kill Negan the second he steps outside).  When someone betrays you like the Garbage Pail Kids did, you don't go back to them, alone, basically unarmed, and try to give them a second chance.  You put them down on your "List o' Enemies" and that's where they stay, forever.  It was such stupid writing I couldn't believe it.  Ended up watching the rest of the episode later while I surfed the web.

 

From the last few episodes of Season 2  to the premiere of Season 7, I loved this show, warts and all.  I really don't understand what is going on the writing room of what is arguably the most popular drama on television over the past decade. 

 

**Also, Lauren "hotness" Cohan's speech to Gregory, that I assume was supposed to sound ominously tough-guy-ish, also was preposterously dumb.  What possible event or sequence dialogue in the history of this show could ever lead anyone to believe that the Saviors would participate in a good-faith prisoner swap?

post #62 of 124

I have a bad feeling they want to stretch this out until the season finale. It's hard to believe that the Saviors have been the big bad guys for three seasons now.  Some random thoughts

 

- I resent the show for wanting to make us side with Jesus, yet he doesn't get nearly the hate that Morgan got when Morgan went through that peaceful phase. Thanks to him, the Hilltop now have 20 something prisoners they have to feed, and build a prison for, and guard. Think of all the time and resources they wasted because of Jesus? It's like he's a kid who brought a stray dog home and now has to convince his parents to let him keep it. As dumb as Maggie's reasoning for the prison was, I'm glad she saw how dumb it was to bring those prisoners (who will surely break free) back to the Hilltop. 

 

- Does anyone even know that Rick went to see the Garbage People? And why does he even need them? They've killed like, 200 something Saviors, have the Sanctuary surrounded. Have foiled them at every turn. The war is turning Rick's way. So why try to strike a deal with the Garbage People? If it were not for them, the war would have been over back during last season's finale.

 

- Aaron is acting like a month has passed since Eric's death. It's been about two days.

 

- I'm glad Michonne showed up, but she's barely factored into the storyline, and we're almost at the mid season finale. It's made me convinced that these writing choices are down to trying to maintain the show's budget.

 

- Going back to Jesus (I hate this character), I wish the show would stop trying to to feel the need to have these characters redeem themselves, and show they're better than the bad guys. We're beyond that. 

post #63 of 124

Couple weeks behind but ...

 

That's a mounted 30 cal machine gun plowing half a dozen rounds into Rick's Jeep at about 20/30 feet - and they actually show little sparks flying off the Jeep before the engine hisses and Rick pulls over.  This is the same machine gun that a couple hours earlier magically took out 90% of the Kingdom's guys at 200 / 300 feet in like 10 seconds, even though they were on high alert in big ass field with tons of cover nearby, and it left them with exit wounds big enough stick your arm through.

 

Then Rick throws the ordinance, which he plans to use to blow up half a factory, into a fire and it blows up a whole transport with like a 15 foot plume of fire.  Plus Rick and Daryl are totes cool like 30 feet away, just a little mussed up hair when in reality their eyes and teeth would have shot out of their heads like ping pong balls.

post #64 of 124

... plus Daryl gets the machine gun guy, who's in the back of a truck going 40 mph, direct hit in the forehead, first shot from a pistol while he's riding a fucking Harley that's bouncing around like goddam change in the dryer.  That's some crack shooting right there!

post #65 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by WendellEverett View Post
 

... plus Daryl gets the machine gun guy, who's in the back of a truck going 40 mph, direct hit in the forehead, first shot from a pistol while he's riding a fucking Harley that's bouncing around like goddam change in the dryer.  That's some crack shooting right there!

 

Well, they have to be consistent. These people have been putting bullets right between the eyes of zombies for years, despite lack of training, fear, worn down weapons, movement, range, physics, reality...

post #66 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WendellEverett View Post
 

... plus Daryl gets the machine gun guy, who's in the back of a truck going 40 mph, direct hit in the forehead, first shot from a pistol while he's riding a fucking Harley that's bouncing around like goddam change in the dryer.  That's some crack shooting right there!

 

That part was fine.

post #67 of 124

IDK it feels like it's getting sloppier this year.

post #68 of 124

This show is officially out of steam. Nothing is happening. I don't know how much longer they can keep stalling with scene after scene of extras who have clearly never held guns before standing around shooting at each other.

 

You can literally feel the writers stalling for time, trying to decide if...

 

(Comic spoilers - no idea if it even relates to the show anymore)

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
...they want to kill off Negan and probably end the show, or if they're going to keep him alive and move on to the Whisperers - yet another group of evil humans that Rick and company have to go to "all out war" with.
post #69 of 124
I wish AMC would give this show a proper budget. Everything's starting to feel so small and repetitive. For Christ's sake, Season 1 had more scope than this "all-out war."
post #70 of 124

I guess they think, why bother putting more money in it.  It's already working, viewership is stable and the actors are going to keep asking for more money.

post #71 of 124

Eugene is the Negan this show deserves.

post #72 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstraw80 View Post
 

I guess they think, why bother putting more money in it.  It's already working, viewership is stable and the actors are going to keep asking for more money.

 

Is it stable, though? I thought viewership had been dropping? 

 

Man, what a boring episode. And I never realized this before, but I hate Eugene. He works as comic relief, but not in more dramatic scenes. And when you have him, Negan, and Jadis all in the same episode (thank god there was no Ezekiel), you're getting a lot of performances that are not at all grounded in reality.

 

The scariest thing is, from what I've read, the war with the Saviors continues through the rest of the season. 

post #73 of 124

The Walking Dead Writer's Motto:  Why do anything unless its a premiere or finale?

 

An episode based around the Saviors dealing with a zombie related crisis could've been a fun self-contained episode that showed us why they follow Negan, built up their credibility as a threat and introduced some gray-area in terms of them being bad guys.  Instead they all just sort of milled around while Eugene dealt with it. 

 

They spent half a season with Negan's team trapped in the compound, but once they needed them to leave, they write off the whole thing with an off-screen escape.  They don't even bother to tell us what Eugene's plan was (unless he had two planes/ipods).  This half-season has been a waste of time.  It doesn't matter how many outposts or grunts Rick captured, because as far as the show is concerned Negan will always have enough people to overwhelm Rick's group. 

 

Midseason finale predictions:

 

  • Really obnoxious opening scene that teases the end of the fucking episode we're watching.  It'll be something like Negan making a speech to a bloodied Rick.
  • Morgan Quantum Leaps him back in time 3 years into Kim Dickens.  Oh boy.
  • Post credits scene of a hobo killing a zombie.  That way we know there's a cool new character to come!
post #74 of 124

Director fails this episode: They were trying way too hard to show Eugene that Negan sucks and he should take the deal.  Also they are really pushing for who's taking sides when its all done and over, Rick vs. Daryl.

post #75 of 124

Love when the writers throw in  Negan saying something like  "Can you believe this (rubbing corpse guts all over your body) doesn't get you sick?".  Of course, a few scenes later Gabriel is violently ill from that very thing.  Like Carol, he was a character I initially kind of hated, but now is one of the more interesting characters.  The confession scenes with Negan were some of the best of the series.  Now he gets to lay in bed for like 5 episodes.

 

Really don't understand why Rick went back to the garbage people.  He had no plan other than to threaten them.  I have to admit the "let me sculpt you (without pants) when this is over" made me chuckle though.

 

What happened to Rick dreaming about himself with a clean shaven beard? I'm sure it will come up again at the most ridiculous time.  Really hate when the try to jump back and forth in time, or in this case, dream?

 

Also, Negan really like talking about dicks and balls...a lot.

 

Agree with what others have said about Ogg.  He is pretty great, but he also hasn't been given much to do.  Still makes me think of GTA V every time I hear him talk though.

post #76 of 124

Guess that character is dead which is great but I'm finally ready to cease watching.

 

Those slow-mo close-up shots were the worst.

post #77 of 124
Oh wow, I didn't think they'd bump him off.
post #78 of 124

It wasn't as surprising to me as it should have been. There had been a lot of speculation recently that he'd bite the dust. Still, a massive departure from the source material, and one I'm not entirely on board with.

 

Also, I guess that means Rick's flash forward was just a dream sequence? Since

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Carl

made an appearance.

post #79 of 124

I'm like 5 episodes behind and we're heavily debating if we should even bother to watch them or just skip ahead to the mid-season finally. 

So who ends up dying? At this point I don't care if I'm spoiled or not, this aint The Last Jedi. 

post #80 of 124
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Carl

got bit by a walker like two episodes ago. He only revealed it tonight.

post #81 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by History Buff View Post

I'm like 5 episodes behind and we're heavily debating if we should even bother to watch them or just skip ahead to the mid-season finally. 
So who ends up dying? At this point I don't care if I'm spoiled or not, this aint The Last Jedi. 

I’m in the same boat as you. Watched the first 3 episodes of the season and can’t muster up the enthusiasm to watch the remaining on my DVR. Thinking about just deleting them and the series as I reaaaaally don’t give a shit anymore.
post #82 of 124
Thread Starter 

Where the fuck did the saviors get that kind of manpower and resources?  Did they start out with 3k people?

 

Carl has been saying/doing idiotic things for 2-3 seasons now, but not like this.  Not like this. 

post #83 of 124

What was the time span for this half-season?  Are we still on the same day it started or have days passed?  Feels like its the same day, but Rick's jogged across the entirety of the show, Aaron's grieved for his spouse, and Gabriel has both gotten sick and recovered.  I don't remember any explicit "days since the attack" dialogue or even any night scenes.  Every episode sort of continued from the last and it really feels like the same day.  Maybe two.

 

There's probably no point in watching this until the finale any more. Its clear they're just spinning wheels until then.

post #84 of 124

I feel like what happened last night was a desperate ploy to boost the bad ratings. The actor has basically said it totally came out of left field and wasn't expected.

 

The Walking Dead has always felt like an even more miserable version of Survivor, and Glenn and Abraham's deaths and how they were handled really reinforced that. This one feels like they're just going to lean into it now and start offing people for shock value to salvage some viewership before the show is canned.

post #85 of 124

It seems like Chandler Riggs was taken by surprise. He bought a home in Georgia and selected a nearby school to make shooting easier. I think his expectation was that they would temporarily make Carl a less prominent character (or have him disappear Heath-style and then come back), but Gimple decided to go another route.

 

It does strike me as a desperate ratings ploy, and it's also one of the most serious departures from the comics yet. Kirkman has repeatedly emphasized that The Walking Dead is, at heart, a generational story, with Carl eventually taking on the mantle of leadership from Rick. I have no idea where the show goes from this point.

post #86 of 124

They should kill a main character every week. Only reason I've been watching the last couple seasons is to see more of these saps bite it and bite it hard. One major death per half-season doesn't cut it. Not even close.

post #87 of 124

I have to wonder what Andrew Lincoln thinks about it.  I can't believe he'd be on board. Carl is Rick's legacy. He's now old enough, and has seen enough action, to become a more active member of the group. And he's Rick's reason for living. By the time the time jump comes around, Judith still won't be old enough to have any significant storylines or be a sounding board for Rick. I was never a big fan of Carl, but this feels like a bad decision. If I'm AMC, I'd seriously start considering replacing Scott Gimple. 

post #88 of 124

Did he at least get a good sploogy death, or was it a teary-eyed soppy farewell?

post #89 of 124

It was neither. We see him sitting on the ground, and when Rick and Michonne approach him, he lifts his shirt and reveals a bite mark on his waist. Michonne drops to her knees, and the camera pans out. He got bit two episodes ago, but it wasn't revealed until the end of the episode. But we do see him at the start of the episode tearfully writing a letter to Rick, and leaving it for him. When Negan shows up, Carl asks him to spare everyone else, asking Negan to kill him, but Negan gets distracted. 

post #90 of 124
They should make Carl immune to the zombie bug. There's your twist.
post #91 of 124
Carl dies, then Rick wakes up in the hospital in the middle of a zombie apocalypse.
post #92 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

They should make Carl immune to the zombie bug. There's your twist.

 

Don't give them ideas to keep this show going for another five years, Brad.

post #93 of 124
Thread Starter 

They have left absolutely no place for the Rick Grimes character to go with this decision.  Scott Gimple is Swedish for "Scott Buck."

post #94 of 124
Is Iron Fist REALLY that bad? I wanna watch The Defenders but...

All this is starting to confuse me.

What thread am I in again?
post #95 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraid uh noman View Post

Is Iron Fist REALLY that bad? I wanna watch The Defenders but...

All this is starting to confuse me.

What thread am I in again?

 

Yes, it is that bad.

 

I just got done reading a lengthy article about how the decision in re: Carl was driven not by creative desires, but instead was strictly a money play as Riggs is turning 18 and was in line to command a massive pay increase.  

 

This disconcerting possibility, plus the Darabont lawsuit, combined with the more recent, potentially far-more-massive suit filed by Kirkman and Mazzara (Mazzara is the guy who put together the second half of season 2 along with seasons 3 and 4, and arguably most of 5, basically the "golden years") makes me believe that AMC's decisions in regards to The Walking Dead are 100% economically motivated.  This sort of shit robs any enjoyment that may be left in the series.  

 

They've written the Grimes character into a corner with no place left to go, motivation-wise, they've killed off someone we watched grow up for nearly a decade now, and they've clearly demonstrated they  have no plan about how to coherently tell this story.  

 

This is probably where I exit, stage left.  

post #96 of 124
I wonder if there will be a time jump coming up here between seasons that will age up Judith enough to replace the character dynamics Carl leaves.
post #97 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turingmachine75 View Post

I wonder if there will be a time jump coming up here between seasons that will age up Judith enough to replace the character dynamics Carl leaves.

 

Children aren't fungible.  

post #98 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
 

 

 

 

This disconcerting possibility, plus the Darabont lawsuit, combined with the more recent, potentially far-more-massive suit filed by Kirkman and Mazzara (Mazzara is the guy who put together the second half of season 2 along with seasons 3 and 4, and arguably most of 5, basically the "golden years") makes me believe that AMC's decisions in regards to The Walking Dead are 100% economically motivated.     

 

I think that's almost certainly true. Season 2 spent an entire season on the farm. Last season saw episodes without its main characters interacting, or in the case of Carol, spending most of their time off screen. Michonne has had little screen time, as has Negan. Even Rick spent most of last night's ep off screen. No wonder the Garbage people keep showing up. They're cheap actors to use. 

post #99 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by t3cii View Post
 

 

I think that's almost certainly true. Season 2 spent an entire season on the farm. Last season saw episodes without its main characters interacting, or in the case of Carol, spending most of their time off screen. Michonne has had little screen time, as has Negan. Even Rick spent most of last night's ep off screen. No wonder the Garbage people keep showing up. They're cheap actors to use.?

 

If AMC wanted to save money and keep their creative integrity intact, they should have just gracefully written a conclusion to the storyline to this main cast and created a bunch of spin-off series.  This was not the way to handle it.  
 

post #100 of 124
It's the most self-defeating type of greed. AMC is destroying whatever is left of the show and ensuring a poor legacy by milking what they can out of it while cutting corner after corner. If the ratings are any indication, its long-term viability as a creative and economic endeavor is not looking good.

Season 1 had more impressive scope than this. How many seasons has it been since the show got out of the Georgia woods?
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