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Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017) Post-Release - Page 21

post #1001 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Matchstick View Post

What does the other part of you believe?

Most of me believes that he’s a great guy that loves SW and ultimately wants to make something entirely new more than he wants to finish what others started. I do believe he might’ve made different choices in this film if he’d known he could’ve potentially ended everything himself. And I believe having to grapple with the tragic loss of Carrie Fisher played a role in him deciding, “Nah, I’m good starting fresh!”
post #1002 of 7540

The more it sits on me, the less I like it.


 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Wants to have it both ways. Be different... but not too different. Be like Empire Strikes Back (desperately, in fact)... but without the nostalgia callbacks... until it does, in fact, dip into the nostalgia callbacks (including one of two "What. the. FUCK?!" decisions by bringing back Yoda - the other being Leia going full-on Superman in space).

 

Killing off Snoke like that is a giant leap to take and I applaud them for doing it. Until Johnson & Co. decides that wasn't enough and the film goes on for another hour.

 

Kind of a wet-fart of a ending, especially that last shot. As much as I loved the new leads and wanted to see where The Last Jedi would take them off the strength of The Force Awakens and its closing moments, the same can not be said about Episode IX. I don't care. We all know it's going to be a glorified Return of the Jedi retread with some twists. One of them I fully expect to be Luke returning from the other-side.. in human form. I'm calling it.

post #1003 of 7540

Well for what it's worth, here's my thoughts a few hours after having seen it:

 

GOOD TO GREAT:

Mark Hamill as tortured Luke Skywalker.  Great.  Could see him getting an Oscar nom for this as a cumulative nod to his career.

 

Adam Driver as the most interesting character Kylo Ren so far in this new trilogy.

 

Some great visual moments especially in regards to 3rd act character reveals and salt planet battle.

 

THE REST:

Hot garbage.  The worst examples of modern blockbuster filmmaking by committee.   Nonsense plot structure/points and pacing with a bit of downright fan pandering and algorithmic action scenes, with a helping of empty pseudo-spiritual catchphrasing.

 

Where are we now compared to the ending of TFA?  Resistance good, First Order bad.  Rey good, Ren bad.  Luke a mysterious and admittedly influential, yet absent presence.  Poe and Finn plucky yet fairly ineffectual in the grand scheme of things.  Leia kinda sorta in charge.  Phasma continues to be a joke.  Snoke's dead, I guess that's something, but what does it change?

 

Hey, everyone's entitled to their own opinion.  If you liked/loved it, I'm genuinely happy for you, and I can't tell you you're wrong.  I don't care enough to defend my opinion if you disagree.

post #1004 of 7540

"So you are not dead after all, Obi-Wan. I thought I felt your presence in the netherworld. So, you have returned. But you have failed... the boy is mine, and will soon embrace the Dark Side." - The Emperor, Revenge Of The Jedi (Revised Rough Draft)

post #1005 of 7540

They might could go back to the concept for IX.

post #1006 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

Oh God, the bit with Luke almost lightsabering proto-Kylo Ren is going to be the new "Metropolis collateral damage" moment that gives everyone real-life PTSD.

What I love about this is how adhering to the idea requires someone to pretend not to be aware that, by the time Luke regained consciousness, Kylo had killed every one of his fellow students who hadn't turned with him, burned the temple to the ground, and flown off to join his real master, Snoke. I don't know about executing the dude in his sleep, but he could have benefited from at least an ass whooping.
post #1007 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post


What I love about this is how adhering to the idea requires someone to pretend not to be aware that, by the time Luke regained consciousness, Kylo had killed every one of his fellow students who hadn't turned with him, burned the temple to the ground, and flown off to join his real master, Snoke. I don't know about executing the dude in his sleep, but he could have benefited from at least an ass whooping.

Minor detail, he did not kill all of the students, some of them he took for training. Presumably to become Knights of Ren.

post #1008 of 7540

There is absolutely no way this will be looked at more fondly in the future. THIS is the high point, everyone, so soak it in, those who liked it...

 

... of which I kinda sorta count myself? I'm really pissed that I actually kind of enjoyed this unbelievably stupid Saturday Morning Cartoon come to life. It's just so bonkers. Like when Rey and Ren have their first Force Bond (so dumb) moment, and then it cuts to Luke coming down the stairs, and you think he'll be able to sense something's wrong, but he just starts yelling at these weird caretaker aliens looking like something out of Jim Hensen's Storyteller. It's all just so ridiculous. 

 

I put it somewhere with those Ewok movies in terms of how seriously I take this as canon, but as standalone pieces of big budget nonsense it could be MUCH worse. 

post #1009 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikade zarathos View Post

There is absolutely no way this will be looked at more fondly in the future. THIS is the high point, everyone, so soak it in, those who liked it...

I put it somewhere with those Ewok movies in terms of how seriously I take this as canon, but as standalone pieces of big budget nonsense it could be MUCH worse.
Hee.

Hee.

Hee.
post #1010 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikade zarathos View Post
 

There is absolutely no way this will be looked at more fondly in the future. THIS is the high point, everyone, so soak it in, those who liked it...

 

... of which I kinda sorta count myself? I'm really pissed that I actually kind of enjoyed this unbelievably stupid Saturday Morning Cartoon come to life. It's just so bonkers. Like when Rey and Ren have their first Force Bond (so dumb) moment, and then it cuts to Luke coming down the stairs, and you think he'll be able to sense something's wrong, but he just starts yelling at these weird caretaker aliens looking like something out of Jim Hensen's Storyteller. It's all just so ridiculous. 

 

I put it somewhere with those Ewok movies in terms of how seriously I take this as canon, but as standalone pieces of big budget nonsense it could be MUCH worse. 


​I take you about as serious as I take the legions of greatly disturbed hardcore fans losing their shit because they thought Snoke was for sure Darth Plagueis the wise, Sith Vampire and father or Anakin Skywalker and he was for sure going to go down in battle with Luke. 

post #1011 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post


What I love about this is how adhering to the idea requires someone to pretend not to be aware that, by the time Luke regained consciousness, Kylo had killed every one of his fellow students who hadn't turned with him, burned the temple to the ground, and flown off to join his real master, Snoke. I don't know about executing the dude in his sleep, but he could have benefited from at least an ass whooping.

 

It's okay to shoot someone in the head while they sleep if they turn out to have child porn on their computer.
post #1012 of 7540

So I guess the balance was not referring to a new philosophy of Grey Jedi who maintain a careful balance of hate and peace within themselves in a fascinating new dynamic going forward.  Instead it seems to be "there's gotta be a good one and an evil one."

 

I guess the Force was like "What?  Skywalker didn't have any kids?  Ahhhhh fuck.  But we need a good Force person or there's no balance...  Ah shit.  Now we're screwed.  I dunno just fucking give it to that chipper homeless girl with the trash parents I dunno fucking whatever."

 

How boring. 

post #1013 of 7540

Also Finn Rose and Poe the Resistance cheer leaders are personally responsible for killing all of the Resistance.  There's like ten people left at the end out of four hundred and it's totally their fault.  It almost plays as comedy.  Like an SNL skit.  They even point out Dern had a plan that would have probably saved everyone.  They're talking about hope and sparks while ship after ship full of Resistance fighters gets blown to hell behind them. 

post #1014 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
How boring.

 

Your confused ramblings are, for sure.

post #1015 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Woodward View Post
 

 

Your confused ramblings are, for sure.


Barry?  Sweetie?  You're fucking done.  Blocked.  Goodbye. 

post #1016 of 7540

Don't see myself ever going back to this trilogy, let alone anything Disney-era after an initial viewing (if that, in the event the quality continues to dip into stale nostalgia porn as it has).

 

The original trilogy tells a complete story with a beginning, middle and end. It still works and resonates to this day, for a reason. Like the Ghostbusters, Matrix and Robocop sequels, I honestly won't acknowledge these.

post #1017 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie View Post
 

Don't see myself ever going back to this trilogy, let alone anything Disney-era after an initial viewing (if that, in the event the quality continues to dip into stale nostalgia porn as it has).

 

The original trilogy tells a complete story with a beginning, middle and end. It still works and resonates to this day, for a reason. Like the Ghostbusters, Matrix and Robocop sequels, I honestly won't acknowledge these.


It certainly feels like this movie hates the one that preceded it.  It's an odd dynamic. 

post #1018 of 7540

I haven't read all the posts in this thread by any means (only glanced at the last few pages) but tonight I saw this film, and I was not a fan. Note: I am not a superfan who has delved into the extensive Extended Universe but I did watch and love the original trilogy as a kid. The prequels I thought were dogshit; even though they had flaws, The Force Awakens and Rogue One were a blast to me. Nostalgia is part of the reason why, I can admit.

 

This movie, I thought was meh at best. It's not because "this is different from the rest." My main hangup I hadn't even seen mentioned yet. This having WAY more humor than the others ruined things for me. Even more so than all the stupid moments (such as Leia going Mary Poppins) or the plot holes or the poor storytelling or how it brushed off the big questions from TFA or how the Porgs were a flagrant attempt to try and sell even more merchandise; they served no purpose. At least those ice foxes did something important. Most of the jokes were jarring and it felt like I was not even in the same universe. The fact that I thought much of the humor was dumb and not actually funny was another issue. If I wanted to see a quippy space adventure, I'd watch the two Guardian of the Galaxy films... which I have and I thought the first was quite enjoyable, the second less so; the humor in 2 was a lot worse than in 1. Since 2010 the only superhero films I've seen are Wonder Woman (good) and The Dark Knight Rises (bad); I just don't care for the genre in general and I'll presume most of the Marvel movies after Iron Man 2 have been quip-heavy too... which probably is a good thing I haven't watched them then.

 

I am greatly disappointed I can't be in the "love it" camp, such as some people in this thread or many on Letterboxd. Too much of it I was nonplussed about, and that is a shame as the idea of the main plot surrounding Luke, Ren and Rey was interesting. Even if it wasn't always successful it was a nice idea and I was happy with that being different, except for the "Snoke is just a random creature" thing. There are other strong moments which made the film not a complete waste of time. Of course I am a dumbass who will see the movie again, although at least I have the excuse that this time it'll be a Dolby Cinema at AMC and the picture will be brighter than the other Premium Large Format screen I saw it at tonight. Maybe it'll play better for me this time around but maybe I'll just be as annoyed. It's not something I want to watch on Blu at home.

post #1019 of 7540

Funny, I'm the polar opposite of you. I thought the humor worked and was what endeared me to the characters. It didn't take me out the film, it brought me in deeper, Jawheedin style.


Edited by Barry Woodward - 12/15/17 at 11:37pm
post #1020 of 7540

I wake up today and oh man... The number of people and thinkpieces on Facebook patting themselves on the back for not being like those terrible Star Wars nerds who can't handle change. All because they liked a movie that's only sliiiiightly different from everything that's come before.

post #1021 of 7540
post #1022 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Woodward View Post
 

Funny, I'm the polar opposite of you. I thought the humor landed consistently and is what so endeared me to the characters this time around. It didn't take me out the film, it brought me deeper in.


​Some of it was perfectly natural and fine, like Luke throwing the lightsaber away. And basically all of the scenes of Chewie and the Porgs. But then there was shit like BB-8 shooting coins that was just flat out retarded and cringe worthy.

post #1023 of 7540
My favorite part was when Leia told everyone to follow Poe after he got literally everyone killed.
post #1024 of 7540

Hindsight is 20/20. The First Order is ultimately responsible for those deaths. The troops know he'd die for each and every one of them.


Edited by Barry Woodward - 12/15/17 at 11:54pm
post #1025 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Woodward View Post

Funny, I'm the polar opposite of you. I thought the humor worked and was what so endeared me to the characters. It didn't take me out the film, it brought me in deeper.

 

I can understand someone feeling that way. My sense of humor is different anyhow, so I imagine there will be plenty who don't feel like me. Not everyone laughed at all the one-liners but it was enough to where at least part of the audience had a good time. I did not hear much discussion leaving the auditorium, although that was good as people were waiting outside for later screenings so people actually followed the rule and "did not pull a Homer Simpson" and ruin it for them. I am also sure some of them were not fans either. When you have Ren shirtless in one scene basically so people will think, "I hear Kylo Ren's shredded! I hear he has an 8-pack!", I am gonna take issue with it.

 

I did not even think of that until now Deanburger, but that is rather absurd. Sure, Poe has "learned his lesson" and is "a better leader"... it is silly when we've seen his foolhardy boldness kill people throughout.

post #1026 of 7540
The Force Awakens was a rote, by the numbers portrait of the OT. The Last Jedi took risks and forged its own path.

If you’re over 35 I doubt you like this film that much because it isn’t Star War!
post #1027 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Perfect Weapon View Post

I did not even think of that until now Deanburger, but that is rather absurd. Sure, Poe has "learned his lesson" and is "a better leader"... it is silly when we've seen his foolhardy boldness kill people throughout.
I mean, when Winston Churchill got everybody killed, he busted his own ass back down to lieutenant colonel and spent months on the front lines. So measure up to that benchmark, Poe Man's Wedge Solo.
post #1028 of 7540
I can see one not caring for this film, but hating it on the level of prequels?

Star Wars, man. Makes people do funny things.
post #1029 of 7540
Winston Churchill was the only one who knew that Germany was a threat long before it came to fruition. Poe got EVERYONE killed. It makes no sense why Dern kept her plan a secret but as a pilot he had no right to know the inner workings of high command. Poe fucked up big time.
post #1030 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

I can see one not caring for this film, but hating it on the level of prequels?

Star Wars, man. Makes people do funny things.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: as bad as the Prequels are (and make no mistake, they're bad, and AOTC is Bad with a capital Sand Monologue,) they're unmistakeably the work of a genuine auteur. Try saying that about Disney Wars without bursting into a fit of sniggering.
post #1031 of 7540
Make no mistake though, this was a great movie. I just think with Finn's plan failing they never understood just what that meant for Poe's decision. He fucked it all up.
post #1032 of 7540

THE LAST JEDI is unmistakably the work of a genuine auteur.

post #1033 of 7540
That's nice.
post #1034 of 7540

It is, you should see it. It has anime crystal foxes.

post #1035 of 7540
You can feel free to subsidize my ticket. Just be advised that the money will actually be going towards a Deschutes Black Butte 25th Anniversary Reserve Porter to accompany a viewing of the unadulterated original film on Laserdisc.
post #1036 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post

I've said it before and I'll say it again: as bad as the Prequels are (and make no mistake, they're bad, and AOTC is Bad with a capital Sand Monologue,) they're unmistakeably the work of a genuine auteur. Try saying that about Disney Wars without bursting into a fit of sniggering.

And that auteur sold his franchise and this is how it is. A good film is a good film. Whether with a auteur or a workman director is irrelevant. Star Wars at this point is entering James Bond territory where the studio just hires a bunch of talent to churn out a film that will entertain the masses.

It's been a rough start, with the whole debacle of ROGUE ONE and likely SOLO. I hope Lucasfilm finds its footing.
post #1037 of 7540

Poe got many many people killed and as a response to that, he showed what he had learned by pulling a mutiny, AND aided in Finn and Rose getting hundreds and hundreds of Resistance members killed who otherwise would have been fine. 

 

Poe should not be the plucky leader to be.  He sucks.  He should be executed. 

post #1038 of 7540
Hahaha TLJ the work of an auteur.
post #1039 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post

Hahaha TLJ the work of an auteur.

 

Love hearing dweebs say "Oh my God, IT TOOK SO MANY RISKS!"

post #1040 of 7540

auteur - a filmmaker, usually a director, who exercises creative control over his or her works and has a strong personal style.

post #1041 of 7540
Poe is responsible for thousands of deaths cause he couldn't obey simple orders, despite being busted down a rank and receiving a coherent explanation of his failings.

"What're you looking at me for? Follow him!"

Couldn't door-smashing, space-defying Leia have moved those rocks?
post #1042 of 7540

Rian Johnson: "The perception of these films is that they're all planned out on a secret sheet of paper in advance, but that's just not the case. I wasn't given an outline of where it goes or even a list of things to hit. It really was just, 'Okay, what's next?' I was terrified coming into this that I was gonna be like Barton Fink and have a script that was due six months ago and I'm still on page three writing about fishmongers. But it's the most fun I've ever had writing something. The whole experience was incredible: just tapping into my ten-year-old self. Even though it's Star Wars, the whole thing has felt bizarrely similar to my experience making LOOPER or BRICK or THE BROTHERS BLOOM."

post #1043 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

Poe got many many people killed and as a response to that, he showed what he had learned by pulling a mutiny, AND aided in Finn and Rose getting hundreds and hundreds of Resistance members killed who otherwise would have been fine.

Poe should not be the plucky leader to be. He sucks. He should be executed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post

Poe is responsible for thousands of deaths cause he couldn't obey simple orders, despite being busted down a rank and receiving a coherent explanation of his failings.
*glee*
post #1044 of 7540
OMG the heroes fuck up!
post #1045 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post

*glee*

 

post #1046 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T. View Post
 

Fine, whatever. I wasn't aware of the drama happening on Rotten Tomatoes. But I do absolutely see a movie that, given a cool-down period, is going to be reviled just like the prequels are.

 

Well Johnson did say he was a fan of the prequels...

 

I didn't hate it like you, but it obviously has some serious problems both on a story level, an ideological level, and a filmmaking level.  I really didn't expect to walk out of this thinking TFA was a better movie, but it is.  It at least gets the basics right.  It's funny to think everyone believed Johnson would be the savior of the franchise... turns out JJ probably should've written and directed all three.

post #1047 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

OMG the heroes fuck up!


The heroes don't just fuck up.  Fucking up is fine.  Heroes SHOULD fuck up.  But here our heroes fuck up and ruin the one thing they all claim to value above everything else.  The Resistance.  They destroy it.  They ruin it themselves.  A fuck up in this kind of film should be a set back.  It should be bumps in the road followed by the one big bump at the end of the second act. 

 

By no logic should Poe be a free man. 

post #1048 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
It's funny to think everyone believed Johnson would be the savior of the franchise... turns out JJ probably should've written and directed all three.

 

I just love this bullshit narrative that Disney just handed over creative control of their $200M-$300M Star Wars sequel to Johnson. One look at The Last Jedi with its "Empire but not Empire... BUT NO REALLY, It's Empire!" thing confirms the obvious.

post #1049 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
 

 

Well Johnson did say he was a fan of the prequels...

 

I didn't hate it like you, but it obviously has some serious problems both on a story level, an ideological level, and a filmmaking level.  I really didn't expect to walk out of this thinking TFA was a better movie, but it is.  It at least gets the basics right.  It's funny to think everyone believed Johnson would be the savior of the franchise... turns out JJ probably should've written and directed all three.


I'm sickened to admit this, but I think you might be right.

 

Let a professional script the story carefully and then give it to JJ and don't let him change a fucking thing.  That's my ideal scenario going forward and the only hope I have for the last one.  In the likely case that JJ writes Episode 9?  Doom. 

post #1050 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post


I've said it before and I'll say it again: as bad as the Prequels are (and make no mistake, they're bad, and AOTC is Bad with a capital Sand Monologue,) they're unmistakeably the work of a genuine auteur. Try saying that about Disney Wars without bursting into a fit of sniggering.

 

Not just an auteur, but a man who THOROUGHLY understands the world he's created and how it works.  His flaws were not being able to dramatize it properly with the prequels.  That's all really.  But the tone, world and story are air fucking tight.  They are wholly unique.

 

I cannot overstate how big a chasm Lucas' absence has created.  These movies really feel like... something else.  Again, fan films is the best term to describe what I've been seeing since the Disney/Lucasfilm sale.

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