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Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017) Post-Release - Page 36

post #1751 of 7540

Better.  He's a Jedi Knight.  Like his father before him.

post #1752 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post


PTSD doesn't always manifest itself by making you batshit crazy. It could be as simple as something that exists inside you until you're faced with a similar situation and go "god, I can't go through this again!" 

 

This is all speculation really based on little to no actual information.  Especially since it's hut Luke and not island Luke.  All we have to go on is Luke's likely state of mind as a Jedi teacher in the flashback, meaning he clearly needed all his marbles to successful train Jedi students.  If he is that adept at his job, it's logical to assume he is not crazy old man reactionary Luke.  The hut scene takes a pretty giant leap from where Luke should've been given the circumstances of the entire situation.  

 

I'll keep saying this... it's a nonsensical moment and people who agree with the scene need to keep inventing reasons for it that don't make sense.  That's because the scene itself doesn't make sense.  This isn't a dis by the way.  

post #1753 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 

Better.  He's a Jedi Knight.  Like his father before him.

 

You mean the father who murdered children and was complicit in the murder of billions?

post #1754 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
 

 

No, this is completely wrong.

 

The Luke on the island is not the same as the Luke in the flashbacks.  Luke's misanthropic personality is not a factor in the scene in Ben's hut.  He is still a successful Jedi teacher at that point, meaning he must be an even wiser version of the man we saw in ROTJ.  This further cements the implausibility of the hut scene. 

 

These are all tied to your assumptions about the little we see of the flashback, and who Luke was at the end of the OT.   I am not saying my interpretation tracks completely- maybe I'm trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, but I'm trying to understand the story as portrayed, and not just ignore it in favor of my old hopes or assumptions about the character.

 

At the very least we could probably both agree for the movie to ask us to make that leap we needed more to go on.

post #1755 of 7540
Lesson #4: The Skywalker family line must die. They've been nothing but a problem for the galaxy.
post #1756 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

You folks have some funny ideas about Luke, like you think he's some kind of saint.

 

I will admit characters do need to have some ambiguity to remain interesting.  I just think you can do that without betraying the nature of who Luke is (at that point in time).  You could've easily had Ben burn down the Jedi Academy for other reasons and still be pissed at Luke.  Maybe Luke tries to dissuade him and Ben grows resentful and lashes out... Luke defends himself and Ben sees it as a threat.  Ben thus creates his own problem, which makes more sense to me to a dark side user.

post #1757 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post
 

 

You mean the father who murdered children and was complicit in the murder of billions?

I mean... AFTER being a Jedi Knight...

post #1758 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

I think it's super unfair to blame Rian for what he did with Luke.  He did the BEST version of what he could do with the Force Awakens stinger.  He did.  If he had a chance to handle Luke completely of his own ideas I'm sure it would be much more faithful to the Luke we love.

Gonna argue this, too. There were a thousand better ideas for why Luke went to Atch-To, and grumpy old man who deserted everyone he loved and left them to die because he felt sorry for himself was the worst one possible.

He could've gone to Atch-To a broken man after losing his school and failing Ben just like Obi-Wan failed Anakin, sure. But he could've gone there to atone and look for answers. Consulted the texts (and shit, even Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin), and come to the conclusion that the Jedi way is flawed.

That it failed Anakin and Ben by being too rigid and restrictive in regards to base human emotions. And he sees Rey who has this raw potential and comfortably walks the line and believes that it's time for a better way.

Everyone in this trilogy ran away except Leia. Han makes sense because he lost his son and he didn't have the capability to challenge the likes of Snoke and get Ben back.

But Luke? That's what Luke does for a fucking living.
post #1759 of 7540
And if Luke was feeling sorry for himself, wanted to cut himself off from the Force and die a coward, why would he go to the birthplace of the fucking Jedi?

He should've gone back to Tatooine.
post #1760 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
 

 

These are all tied to your assumptions about the little we see of the flashback, and who Luke was at the end of the OT.   I am not saying my interpretation tracks completely- maybe I'm trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, but I'm trying to understand the story as portrayed, and not just ignore it in favor of my old hopes or assumptions about the character.

 

At the very least we could probably both agree for the movie to ask us to make that leap we needed more to go on.

 

It's more about what Luke is like in the whole movie of ROTJ, rather than at the end.  He is clearly someone who is more thoughtful and patient than the guy in the hut scene with Ben.  Is it really a leap to speculate that the guy in ROTJ, with even more wisdom that comes with age, and someone who is competent enough to train a new generation, wouldn't react like an impulsive teenager?  That's not really a leap or an assumption to me.  It's backed up by hard evidence we've seen onscreen.  

 

Johnson made a choice to portray Luke a certain way in the hut scene, but didn't show any character development or context to explain it or justify it (remember, it's before the island). So all we're left with is a scene that doesn't make sense, and that needs leaps in character logic to explain it.  The people saying it's a bad scene aren't making these leaps, because they have evidence.  The people defending the scene are making these leaps, not because they're dumb, but because these leaps need to be made since there's no context for what's happening.  

 

So yes, I agree the movie is asking us to make that leap, and it sours the scene.

post #1761 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T. View Post

And if Luke was feeling sorry for himself, wanted to cut himself off from the Force and die a coward, why would he go to the birthplace of the fucking Jedi?

He should've gone back to Tatooine.

 

Hahaha, so true.  Thanks JJ.

post #1762 of 7540
The characterisation of Luke in TLJ is fine.

It’s just a bad movie. Badly directed or edited, I’m not sure which. Plus modern Hollywood manufactured drama that pretends to lead up to something but cheats the audience and doesn’t pay off. It no longer feels like the king of franchises that other franchises tried to live up to. It now just feels like all the other big franchises. It’s just soulless product.
post #1763 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T. View Post

And if Luke was feeling sorry for himself, wanted to cut himself off from the Force and die a coward, why would he go to the birthplace of the fucking Jedi?

He should've gone back to Tatooine.

 

More to the point, why does he leave a map showing where he is?

 

"Here I am! But leave me alone so I can die plz."

post #1764 of 7540

Thoughts on Luke - 

 

1. Luke's a young, more innocent man when he goes off to redeem Vader. We don't necessarily become more saintly as we get older. In ROTJ his soul was at a sweet spot between maturity and bitter experience. He's maybe a bit more callous when he looks into Ben's soul.

 

2. When Luke fought to redeem Vader, he was fighting for a romanticised figure he'd really known for the 15 minutes the fight on Bespin took. He knew Ben a lot better, and that, coupled with his life experience, could reasonably lead to him wanting to nip this in the bud. 

 

3.  It was a knee-jerk response that he claims to have immediately regretted. This is important, and not mentioned enough in this debate. 

 

4. Luke senses good in Vader when he's a middle-aged husk of bitter wreckage. It stands to reason that faced with a fiery Ben - or young Anakin, had he the opportunity - Luke's instincts would be a lot more fire and brimstone.

 

5. With Vader the damage was done - with Ben, Luke was seeing the chance to stop a terrible future.  

 

- it's better than making him a perfect saint. Also, having Luke spend his last years miserable - like having the Rogue One team die - is the kind of bittersweet, Revenge of the Sith style ending that I figured Disney would not allow. I disagree with the idea that fictional characters should get comfortable endings they deserve - it's truer to life (and I know life doesn't have lightsabers and Force ghosts and Star Destroyers) if things often go badly tits up for the goodies. It makes moments like Luke's final act far more resonant.  

post #1765 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

I will admit characters do need to have some ambiguity to remain interesting.  I just think you can do that without betraying the nature of who Luke is (at that point in time).  You could've easily had Ben burn down the Jedi Academy for other reasons and still be pissed at Luke.  Maybe Luke tries to dissuade him and Ben grows resentful and lashes out... Luke defends himself and Ben sees it as a threat.  Ben thus creates his own problem, which makes more sense to me to a dark side user.

I really don't see a betrayal. Luke gave into fear for only a moment, immediately regretted it, but it was too late.

And ultimately, he should have killed his nephew there. Ben is far beyond where his grandfather was. To take an optimistic approach and try to believe there was probably still good in him was a mistake that cost many lives, including Han Solo's. Even Leia at this point no longer believes there's anything inherently good within Ben.

Pretty nihilistic for Star Wars, but I'm totally open to that interpretation and embrace what TLJ did.
post #1766 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post

More to the point, why does he leave a map showing where he is?

"Here I am! But leave me alone so I can die plz."

What gave the impression that he personally wanted to be found?
post #1767 of 7540

Hey Ned Stark lost his head but at least he had love and joy and a family for a while.  Luke is miserable.

post #1768 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

 

 

Johnson made a choice to portray Luke a certain way in the hut scene, but didn't show any character development or context to explain it or justify it (remember, it's before the island).

 

That's the source of the disconnect, I think.  You think there is no evidence that Luke could have been this way before that moment where Ben destroyed his temple, and he went off to live in exile.  I'm saying the stressors may have been there already, based on the ending of the OT.  You see the idealized version of post OT Luke right up until the events portrayed in this movie. I'm saying perhaps that guy never existed.  But unless we get a betweenquel, the questions likely won't be answered.

post #1769 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 

Hey Ned Stark lost his head but at least he had love and joy and a family for a while.  Luke is miserable.

 

He will get to be a Force ghost, remember. Yoda seems pretty - almost maniacally - happy. 

post #1770 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post


What gave the impression that he personally wanted to be found?

 

I suppose one could surmise that while it was referred to as the map to Luke Skywalker in TFA, it was really just a map to the first Jedi Temple, which is where Luke said he was going. So he didn't necessarily want people to find him, and had intentionally separated the map into two pieces.

 

The whole map thing was pretty dumb though, so less said about it the better.

post #1771 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stale Elvis View Post

The characterisation of Luke in TLJ is fine.

 

Yes, I like the characterization.  I just have a problem with the hut scene.  

post #1772 of 7540
If Luke could project his image to Kylo many light years away, why did he not force-trick Rey into believing he wasn’t on the island?

Answer... Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I don’t care.
post #1773 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

I really don't see a betrayal. Luke gave into fear for only a moment, immediately regretted it, but it was too late.

 

And several times above, I explained why this doesn't make sense.  I'd rather not repeat the same thing, so we can just agree to disagree.

post #1774 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
 

 

He will get to be a Force ghost, remember. Yoda seems pretty - almost maniacally - happy. 

Yoda kicking up his little toes in joy and cackling about some mischief he just pulled was YODA AS FUCK.  Felt more like the character I loved than any prequel Yoda moment.

post #1775 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

And several times above, I explained why this doesn't make sense.  I'd rather not repeat the same thing, so we can just agree to disagree.

Right. It made perfect sense to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

Yoda kicking up his little toes in joy and cackling about some mischief he just pulled was YODA AS FUCK.  Felt more like the character I loved than any prequel Yoda moment.


It's such a nooj moment too. It's creepy.
post #1776 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
 

 I'm saying the stressors may have been there already, based on the ending of the OT.  

 

Well this is where we have two different opinions about the ending of ROTJ.  At the end of ROTJ, Luke is staring at the burned carcass of his father, sad and contemplative.  Then he joins his friends and is bright and cheery and seems to have reconciled his feelings about what happened.

 

That doesn't suggest PTSD to me. I mean, one can speculate it might have happened, but then it's pure conjecture.  Luke is clearly fulfilling Yoda's "pass on what you have learned" mandate, and has been doing it successfully... again, I don't see evidence of PTSD in that scenario, and I don't think it's a leap to assume Luke is relatively well adjusted enough to be running a Jedi Academy.

 

That's why I'm rejecting the PTSD notion, as compelling as it might be.  But really, it seems you invented that to explain the hut scene, which is fine, I just don't see any evidence of it and feel like Johnson is forcing people to invent these random things to accept his shoddy storytelling.

post #1777 of 7540
If anything TLJ only confirms which is the correct interpretation of Luke at the end of ROTJ, whether you like it or not.
post #1778 of 7540
Regarding Holdo saying Godspeed: Han tells a guy he’ll see him in hell in ESB.
post #1779 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

It's such a nooj moment too. It's creepy.

post #1780 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post

Regarding Holdo saying Godspeed: Han tells a guy he’ll see him in hell in ESB.

Are you suggesting there's other religions than Sith and Jedi????????
post #1781 of 7540

So the RottenTomatoes user score thing?

 

How can anybody look at 95,000 ratings in the movie's opening weekend and not come to the conclusion that it's being brigaded? Justice League and Wonder Woman only have a little over 100,000 ratings each. After two years The Force Awakens has 224,000. Rogue One has 96,000.

post #1782 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T. View Post

And if Luke was feeling sorry for himself, wanted to cut himself off from the Force and die a coward, why would he go to the birthplace of the fucking Jedi?

He should've gone back to Tatooine.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
 

 

Hahaha, so true.  Thanks JJ.

 

I might be wrong but I think what D.T. is probably trying to say is that Luke had a definite purpose for going to the island, not to wither and die. If it was just to die old and alone, Tatooine would have been his choice.

post #1783 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post
 

So the RottenTomatoes user score thing?

 

How can anybody look at 95,000 ratings in the movie's opening weekend and not come to the conclusion that it's being brigaded? Justice League and Wonder Woman only have a little over 100,000 ratings each. After two years The Force Awakens has 224,000. Rogue One has 96,000.

 

 

People who vehemently dislike something are much more likely to let their opinion be known. The same thing happens in customer service. Only one of the people who received good customer service that month will let the manager know, whilst everyone who received bad customer service will write a complaint letter. 

 

(Not to say that upset die-hard fans aren't partially responsible, but I'm not going to accept it's all a conspiracy.)

post #1784 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

Are you suggesting there's other religions than Sith and Jedi????????

Han should've said, "I'll see when I see you!"
post #1785 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

If anything TLJ only confirms which is the correct interpretation of Luke at the end of ROTJ, whether you like it or not.

 

It depends on why Johnson thinks Luke ignited the saber.  He could have his own reasons.  But we may never know.

 

But Luke at the end of ROTJ is clearly a very happy man capable of running an academy and passing on his knowledge successfully.  This requires no "interpretation":

 

 

 

 

Doesn't mean he can't have certain regrets, but Johnson doesn't offer us anything to flesh out that storyline, so it's just conjecture.  

post #1786 of 7540
Quote:
 People who vehemently dislike something are much more likely to let their opinion be known.

 

But also in this post GamerGate world, people who vehemently dislike a thing will absolutely exploit available systems to make it look like they're part of a much larger group than they actually are.

 

For points of comparison: Fandango only has 13,000 fan ratings for The Last Jedi. Metacritic has a little over 2,000.

post #1787 of 7540

I had a bad feeling about this.  I was apprehensive about where TLJ might go (a beloved old character might wind up ruined, too many unanswered questions from TFA might be answered in uninspired ways, those furry penguins look like everything we hate about Star Wars aliens, etc.).  I avoided most pre-release specuation about the movie, saw the trailer one time by accident, and saw a commercial by accident.  Didn't want any potential spoilers.  Avoided Facebook, Instagram and Reddit for days before the release, fearing someone would spoil something.  

 

In the end, the movie spoiled itself. 

 

I haven't been this disappointed with a Star Wars movie since Attack of the Clones.  There was so much potential here...so much wasted.  I look at this film's reception like a Chud reviewer looked at Kingdom of the Crystal Skull several years ago -- basically stating that in 6 months' to a year's time positive reviewers would look back and regret their initial reactions.  

 

I can't see myself caring where the story goes from here on out, because clearly the people in charge of this film didn't care about any of the previous setup.  Luke tossing the lightsabre over his shouder is pretty much the inevitable .gif image that we'll soon see all over the internet, and it explains this film perfectly.  There's nothing "bold" or "genius" about Johnson's "wrecking ball" approach (pardon me, I forget which one of you first used that phrase in this thread).  TFA had problems, but it set up the game board.  The trick with this film was to take those pieces and make *better moves* with them, not flip the board like Eleven and place the Demogorgon on top. 

 

"Spoilers" below:

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

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Last time The Republic reigned, and The Resistance was a covert subset that was fighting a small, but resurgent Empire (First Order). Now, THE FIRST ORDER REIGNS despite losing their freaking huge death planet base in the last film, and they've taken over the whole galaxy in the days afterward.  The Resistance has...a few ships, they've already been cornered, and their barely-in-the-first-film hotshot pilot character is now revealed to be spectacularly careless.  It was a bad choice that dooms any of the promise Poe might have had, but if they were determined to go in that direction they could have at least had Poe be the one learning something from his mistake and sacrificing himself to save the fleet.  Instead, we-hardly-knew-ye character Vice Admiral Evening Dress gets the hero moment, robbing it of any impact.

 

Were you hoping for more Captain Phasma in the last film?  Well you're sure going to LOVE what they don't do with her in this one!  All that inspired casting and cool design work for nothing!  

 

FN-2187 -- so many possibilities!  We could have an epic duel with his former captors!  We could explore the psychological toll their conditioning might have taken on him!

We could explore his feelings for Rey!  Or we could just freaking abandon all that and give him a dorky love interest straight out of a bad Pixar movie, for reasons.  

 

Speaking of dorky love interest, did you enjoy Jar Jar Binks?  Did you enjoy slave kids in Star Wars movies?  The Last Jedi has you covered!!  (But the less said about CASINO PLANET, the better!!)

 

Was Snoke kinda weak and "haven't we already done this before?" in the last film...but at the same time you were wondering where in the world he came from and how he played into all this?  Well, aside from learning he gets his wardrobe and interior design inspiration from Hugh Hefner, there will be no other answers.  Even though it kind of f---ing matters to flesh out what happened between Luke and Ben and how the freaking First Order rose from the Empire's ashes, it's never being explained.  Removing a character from the story is fine, as long as the way he is removed doesn't double-down on what made him problematic in the first place.  Again, the wrecking ball approach used in TLJ isn't clever, it's lazy.  

 

So to recap, The First Order is now at Empire levels of strength but with cartoonish leaders, and The Resistance is worse-off than the Rebels ever were--despite this flipping the balance of power from the last film completely on its head. Again, I can't be bothered to care if the people making these films clearly don't.  

 

Ugh.  It's time for my tour in this Star War to end.  

 

1. The Empire Strikes Back

2. Star Wars

3. Rogue One

4. Return of the Jedi

5. The Force Awakens

6. Revenge of the Sith

7. The Phantom Menace

8. The Last Jedi

9. Attack of the Clones

post #1788 of 7540
"Vice Admiral Evening Dress." Ha!

Nobody in charge dresses like they're in the military. It's weird.
post #1789 of 7540

When the credits rolled on this, I honestly expected to come in here and find most people hyped through the roof about it. I should cash in my Chud stock futures. I've lost the touch.

post #1790 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T. View Post

That's who Luke Skywalker is, and I don't think Rian Johnson gets Star Wars at all.

It was the same with JJ and Han Solo.

JJ/Rian: "Hey, you know how Han/Luke had this strong, BEAUTIFUL, well-defined arc in the OT? Well FUCK that arc."

I don't know why these guys who CLAIM to be such massive fans of the OT decided FOR NO GOOD REASON AT ALL that they needed to SHIT ALL OVER the story told in the OT, but I can tell you that if I had been given the job of making this sequel trilogy - as I should have been - literally EVERYONE would have loved the stories I gave Luke and Han.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post

I will say this: if the point of portraying Luke's near-murder/attempted-murder (depending on whose story you believe) ...

Luke and Kylo's stories aren't contradictory. Both of them involve Luke standing over Kylo with The Green ignited. The only difference is Luke knew what was in his mind and Kylo could only assume it. Certain point of view etc.

Not that this changes much about your argument of course - the idea that Luke considered it even for a moment is SHOCKING no matter which way you cut it.

At least it is if you watched the OT correctly.
post #1791 of 7540

Hey, I like Laura Dern and thought she looked smashing.  But it's like she stepped in from a completely different movie.  If she had been present in TFA or if she was visible in the first scenes, my reaction to her character might have been different. 

post #1792 of 7540
Here's how I rank Chud's unofficial shocking disappointments:

1) The 2016 election
2) The Last Jedi
3) Looking at yourself naked in a full-length mirror
post #1793 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

I think it's super unfair to blame Rian for what he did with Luke.  He did the BEST version of what he could do with the Force Awakens stinger.  He did.  If he had a chance to handle Luke completely of his own ideas I'm sure it would be much more faithful to the Luke we love.

BOLLOCKS FREEMAN.

Didn't Han even say that those who knew Luke thought he'd gone off to find the OG Jedi temple to try and find some way to defeat Snoke and save Ben? And even if Han didn't say that, that would still have been far, faaaaaaaaaaaaar more TRUE to the character of Luke Skywalker.

The REAL Luke was not a quitter. EVER.

Trust me. I knew him.
post #1794 of 7540

And Luke asks how they found him.  Wait, didn't he leave a clue with Emperor Ming?  He didn't do that on purpose?  Wasn't that the MacGuffin last time?  

post #1795 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T. View Post

And if Luke was feeling sorry for himself, wanted to cut himself off from the Force and die a coward, why would he go to the birthplace of the fucking Jedi?

He should've gone back to Tatooine.

Because Tatooine is probably the first place everyone would look. Remember that a ton of people, good and bad, were trying to find where he went after he disappeared. Luke going to the place where he was raised is just too obvious.

I’m not saying here that the Jedi island makes sense, I’m just saying that he had to go somewhere remote that he has never been before. Hell, Jakku would have worked.
post #1796 of 7540
I guess I expected Luke to be like Bruce Wayne in TDKR, someone who's lost his place in the world/galaxy, and is kind of subconsciously hoping for something to come along and make him feel needed again, necessary again. And if it kills him, well, you gotta go sometime.

But every movie should be more like a Batman movie.
post #1797 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie5 View Post
 

I might be wrong but I think what D.T. is probably trying to say is that Luke had a definite purpose for going to the island, not to wither and die. 

 

He went to the island because JJ wanted a cool reveal for Luke, with no idea how to make sense of it.

 

I think Johnson's misanthropic Luke was the ONLY choice because it was the only way to introduce conflict.  The galaxy needs saving, Luke is resisting.  Conflict.  That doesn't mean I think it was the BEST choice to have him on an island in the first place.  Again, JJ saddled Johnson with a whole plotline he didn't even understand.

post #1798 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucho View Post


BOLLOCKS FREEMAN.

Didn't Han even say that those who knew Luke thought he'd gone off to find the OG Jedi temple to try and find some way to defeat Snoke and save Ben? And even if Han didn't say that, that would still have been far, faaaaaaaaaaaaar more TRUE to the character of Luke Skywalker.

 

He didn't say why he went looking for the temple only that he did.

post #1799 of 7540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim K View Post


Because Tatooine is probably the first place everyone would look. Remember that a ton of people, good and bad, were trying to find where he went after he disappeared. Luke going to the place where he was raised is just too obvious.

I’m not saying here that the Jedi island makes sense, I’m just saying that he had to go somewhere remote that he has never been before. Hell, Jakku would have worked.

That would have given Luke a hell of a lot more to do--he might have found Rey himself, trained her, and rejoined the fight.  Might have solved a lot of the "how can Rey do that/she has no training" complaints.  

 

Personally those aren't my complaints -- I see Rey as a unique force wielder, and the power within her essentially developed itself as a defense mechanism. It simmered beneath the surface due to her hardscrabble existence, and unleashed itself in response to Ben violating her. 

post #1800 of 7540

I remember Zemeckis saying if they knew they were doing a Back to the Future sequel, they never would've put Jennifer Parker in the Delorean at the end.  They did that entire last scene as a joke, a cool moment.  Then in the sequel they had to invent all kinds of nonsense to justify it.

 

Sounds familiar to me.

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