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Black Panther Post-Release Discussion

post #1 of 696
Thread Starter 
It's great! Hooray!

Given Marvel's track record and the talent involved I think the worst case scenario was "good enough" but it more than meets the expectations... provided that you're on board with these films.

It just feels incredibly confident. Confident enough to (mercifully) keep the yucks in the sidelines and let the characters do the heavy lifting. As great as the cast is Jordan really is the standout and it's so refreshing to see such a interesting antagonist in a Marvel film. I get their need to push the heroes to the forefront in these standalone films but I really hope this shows them how vital a layered villain is. I won't say too much but when it comes to his motivation Cooglar and Cole don't hold back. It feels mature and relevant in a way these films never quite reach.

Its a Marvel film, so take that how you will. I'm the perfect mark so I ate it up. It's not perfect, the climax is pretty standard and features some surprisingly shoddy CGI but it deserves all the excitement and buzz it's getting. My screening was bursting at the seems so this will likely be a monster.


Stray thoughts:

If Asgard had a fraction of the character that Wakanda has I'd be in heaven.

Shuri needs to be in a room with Stark and Rocket stat, Letitia Wright is brilliant.

Lupito N'Yongo and Chadwick Boseman would make the most beautiful children.

Freeman and Serkis had bigger roles than I thought.

Chadwick Boseman is really attractive.

I fancy Chadwick Boseman.
post #2 of 696
MichaelM will be pleased about the downplaying of jokes.
post #3 of 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post

It's great! Hooray!

Given Marvel's track record and the talent involved I think the worst case scenario was "good enough" but it more than meets the expectations... provided that you're on board with these films.

It just feels incredibly confident. Confident enough to (mercifully) keep the yucks in the sidelines and let the characters do the heavy lifting. As great as the cast is Jordan really is the standout and it's so refreshing to see such a interesting antagonist in a Marvel film. I get their need to push the heroes to the forefront in these standalone films but I really hope this shows them how vital a layered villain is. I won't say too much but when it comes to his motivation Cooglar and Cole don't hold back. It feels mature and relevant in a way these films never quite reach.

Its a Marvel film, so take that how you will. I'm the perfect mark so I ate it up. It's not perfect, the climax is pretty standard and features some surprisingly shoddy CGI but it deserves all the excitement and buzz it's getting. My screening was bursting at the seems so this will likely be a monster.


Stray thoughts:

If Asgard had a fraction of the character that Wakanda has I'd be in heaven.

Shuri needs to be in a room with Stark and Rocket stat, Letitia Wright is brilliant.

Lupito N'Yongo and Chadwick Boseman would make the most beautiful children.

Freeman and Serkis had bigger roles than I thought.

Chadwick Boseman is really attractive.

I fancy Chadwick Boseman.

 

Well, I feel like I've been duly warned about the ending so hopefully I can embrace this movie for everything it does right, which sounds like a lot.

 

I'm trying not to be preemptively bummed out before I even see it, lol. Endings are just SUCH a huge deal to me and while I am sure it's not "bad," "standard with shoddy CGI" is exactly the sort of ending that has killed my appreciation for so many of these recent comic book movies.

 

Anyways, I can't wait to see Wakanda. This seems to be the aspect of the movie that everyone is really captured by. That and Killmonger.

post #4 of 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post

It's great! Hooray!

Given Marvel's track record and the talent involved I think the worst case scenario was "good enough" but it more than meets the expectations... provided that you're on board with these films.

It just feels incredibly confident. Confident enough to (mercifully) keep the yucks in the sidelines and let the characters do the heavy lifting. As great as the cast is Jordan really is the standout and it's so refreshing to see such a interesting antagonist in a Marvel film. I get their need to push the heroes to the forefront in these standalone films but I really hope this shows them how vital a layered villain is. I won't say too much but when it comes to his motivation Cooglar and Cole don't hold back. It feels mature and relevant in a way these films never quite reach.

Its a Marvel film, so take that how you will. I'm the perfect mark so I ate it up. It's not perfect, the climax is pretty standard and features some surprisingly shoddy CGI but it deserves all the excitement and buzz it's getting. My screening was bursting at the seems so this will likely be a monster.


Stray thoughts:

If Asgard had a fraction of the character that Wakanda has I'd be in heaven.

Shuri needs to be in a room with Stark and Rocket stat, Letitia Wright is brilliant.

Lupito N'Yongo and Chadwick Boseman would make the most beautiful children.

Freeman and Serkis had bigger roles than I thought.

Chadwick Boseman is really attractive.

I fancy Chadwick Boseman.

 

How is this compared to my favorite MCU movie, The Winter Soldier? I'm just so excited to see Black Panther this weekend!

post #5 of 696
is chadwick boseman hot?
post #6 of 696
Chadwick Boseman?
I’d let him get the check.
post #7 of 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

is chadwick boseman hot?

 

yes but not as hot as michael b. jordan.

post #8 of 696
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anger Management View Post

How is this compared to my favorite MCU movie, The Winter Soldier? I'm just so excited to see Black Panther this weekend!

Winter Soldier is probably the closest comparison. That felt like something different and so does this.

After Guardians 2, Homecoming and Ragnarok a more serious entry was sorely needed. It still has laughs, as Winter Soldier did, but they're character based and they never undercut the drama. The whole third act of Ragnarok was torpedoed by that.

Honestly having slept on it Killmonger probably is the best villain we've seen. For my health I've decided to stay away from internet politics but if some people were offended by Finn simply existing in Star Wars wait til they get a load of Eric. Jesus Christ. Everything about him elevates this above most of the series.

Likewise Wakanda feels so real for something so fantastic and unbelievable. I was worried they would handwave away where it has been for the last few thousand years but what Wakanda is and what it's place in the world is is woven into the story and it's fantastic.

I keep coming back to that climax and can't decide whether they needed to scale it down or throw more money at it. It's not bad but it's far from the best set piece and when T'Challa and Killmonger are just (again, surprisingly poor) CGI suits bouncing off each other it deflates it a bit.

Looking forward to everyone's take.
post #9 of 696
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

is chadwick boseman hot?

He's a beautiful man. Speaking of beautiful, Lupita N'Yongo is so good as Nakia. While Danai Gurira and Letitia Wright are getting all the buzz (with good reason),Nakia is a less showy role but she's badass, strong, warm and acts as T'Challa's conscious. She's also played by the most physically flawless human we've yet produced.
post #10 of 696
Thread Starter 
Guys if you were Welsh you'd have seen this by now.
post #11 of 696

just 24 hours for me here in Chile!

post #12 of 696

Yeah, this is good.  It has quite a lot to say, but it never raises it's voice to say it.  I guess some would argue that means it doesn't explore the themes it brings up thoroughly enough, but a little perspective helps - this is an audience-pleasing blockbuster first and foremost.  if you want a more detailed political discussion you look somewhere else in the first place.  But there's a lot of stuff going on under the hood here, and like any other art form you'll get out of it what you put into it.

Only complaints I have are a couple of really wonky CGI shots (there's one shot towards the end of Killmonger in his suit with the mask off and the compositing of Jordan's head on the body is waaaaaaaay off!), and the typical quick-cut shakycam fight scenes.  I guess they are no worse than what audience shave been raised on for the past 10-15 years, but after watching Accident Man earlier this week and being treated to those steady, long-take fight sequences, I guess I got spoiled for being able to actually follow a fight.

Other than those small quibbles, this was great.  Also, I really need to get back to South Korea - the Busan car chase made me homesick for a country I'm not even from. 

post #13 of 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post


I fancy Chadwick Boseman.

chad-640x334.jpg
post #14 of 696
A massive part of what makes this movie so splendid is Coogler's ability to do what we yap about in our "Directors who know how to effectively establish character efficiently" thread. You GET every single character within moments of meeting them. There are like a dozen characters in this thing I want to see as leads in their own spin-offs.

The only action scene I didn't dig was the one on the tracks we all shat ourselves over a couple of weeks ago. It is better in context (SURPRISE) but still feels like the most uninspired part of the whole film. The rest of the actiony things are as good as anything I remember from any other Marvel movie and better than most due to the Winter Soldiery emotional bonds between combatants and/or witnesses.

Speaking of Winter Soldier, this was the first time I've Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
teared up at a post-credits scene.

Edited by Bucho - 2/14/18 at 11:15pm
post #15 of 696

Splendid huh?  Just trying that out. 

post #16 of 696
Knock yourself out kid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post

After Guardians 2, Homecoming and Ragnarok a more serious entry was sorely needed. It still has laughs, as Winter Soldier did, but they're character based and they never undercut the drama ...

Never though? Not even when Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
M'baku yawned?
post #17 of 696
Loved this!

Coogler...where did this dude come from? The leaps he's making in every film (from Fruitvale Station to Creed to Black Panther) are ridiculous. Can't believe a director this good is only 31. A white director this young and accomplished already would be hailed as a genius, best director of his generation etc etc. Coogler gets his props, but i don't think he's lauded near enough, because he may have the most impressive first 3 films of any director in the last couple of decades.

Whole cast is great. Michael B Jordan is excellent, but he's a bit overhyped. Good villain, but this isn't Ledger in Dark Knight level. Boseman is terrific, but we know what he can do from Civil War. All the women are great, and Andy Serkis is having a blast.

Why is no one talking about Winston Duke as M'Baku? Both funny and terrifying. A complete scene stealer.
post #18 of 696
I was waiting for Pants to take my bait to talk about Winston Duke as M'Baku. Dude was probably only on screen for less than 12 minutes total but in that time showed enough charisma it made me want a TV series about M'Baku running his Jabari kingdom.

Especially loved his fresh take on Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
that hack-ass old "How do you know if somebody is a vegetarian?" gag.
post #19 of 696
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucho View Post

Knock yourself out kid.
Never though? Not even when Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
M'baku yawned?

Bait taken!

Yeah that bit pushed it but it felt in keeping with the character, him wanting them to know he wasn't impressed with them and all. Like you said though I was so taken aback by how much fun he was that I let it slide.

That character sort of fits into my problems with the climax...
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
When M'Baku said they wouldn't help him my wife and I turned to each other and nodded, because of course they would save the day at the end.

Likewise W'Kabi dropping T'Challa like a hot potato didn't feel earned. The character needed an extra scene or two to justify why he would be so enamored with Killmonger. I get he was impressed that he brought him Klaue but this guy is clearly bad news, and W'Kabi himself told T'Challa that Wakanda shouldnt get involved with other peoples problems. It needed a scene showing Killmonger seducing him or T'Challa rebuking him, or both.

M'Baku and W'Kabi almost felt like they were included to facilitate the big battle at the end. It was cool when the mountain tribe turned up and the battle was entertaining but it didnt feel necessary. Put that budget into T'Challa and Killmonger's fisticuffs.

It's by far a deal breaker but villains and third acts always seem to be the achilles heels with the Marvel films. They nailed one, nearly had the other.
post #20 of 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post

Bait taken!

Yeah that bit pushed it but it felt in keeping with the character, him wanting them to know he wasn't impressed with them and all. Like you said though I was so taken aback by how much fun he was that I let it slide.

That character sort of fits into my problems with the climax...
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
When M'Baku said they wouldn't help him my wife and I turned to each other and nodded, because of course they would save the day at the end.

Likewise W'Kabi dropping T'Challa like a hot potato didn't feel earned. The character needed an extra scene or two to justify why he would be so enamored with Killmonger. I get he was impressed that he brought him Klaue but this guy is clearly bad news, and W'Kabi himself told T'Challa that Wakanda shouldnt get involved with other peoples problems. It needed a scene showing Killmonger seducing him or T'Challa rebuking him, or both.

M'Baku and W'Kabi almost felt like they were included to facilitate the big battle at the end. It was cool when the mountain tribe turned up and the battle was entertaining but it didnt feel necessary. Put that budget into T'Challa and Killmonger's fisticuffs.

It's by far a deal breaker but villains and third acts always seem to be the achilles heels with the Marvel films. They nailed one, nearly had the other.

Re: M'Baku: As soon as he did that I thought of all you evil Taika Waititi-haters piling on Ragnarok for being tooooooooooooo funny waaaaaaaah, but I fully admit that moment with M'Baku was a perfect example of how to do that kind of tension-release right. And of course part of the reason it's "excusable" is that it's one of the only times that happens. Plenty of other emotional beats are allowed to resonate fully, without gag punchlines.

But I was good with Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
W'Kabi dropping T'Challa. All I needed was Daniel Kaluuya to sell me on the idea that his people had been frustrated for 30 years while the king didn't to enough, so that T'Challa's failure was a straw breaking an armour-plated war rhino's back. And Daniel Kaluuya convinced me one million percent, if not more.

As for the third act as a whole, aside from the train tracks fight being a little flat I liked pretty much all of it. Even the huge predictability of Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
M'Baku bringing the Jabari to the party - sure it could have been handled more elegantly but I was kind of good (enough) with it almost because it was so predictable. I mean, it's so predictable from the moment he declares T'Challa doesn't have his sword I don't know why I'm even spoiler tagging it. But M'Baku had built up so much good will with me by that point I just rolled with it.
post #21 of 696
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucho View Post

I'm with you on the yawn. As soon as he did it I thought of all you evil Taika Waititi-haters piling on Ragnarok for being tooooooooooooo funny, but that moment with M'Kabi was a perfect example of how to do that kind of tension-release right. And of course part of the reason it's "excusable" is that it's one of the only times that happens. Plenty of other emotional beats are allowed to resonate fully, without gag punchlines.

But I was good with Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
W'Kabi dropping T'Challa. All I needed was Daniel Kaluuya to sell me on the idea that his people had been frustrated for 30 years while the king didn't to enough, so that T'Challa's failure was a straw breaking an armour-plated war rhino's back. And Daniel Kaluuya convinced me one million percent, if not more.

As for the third act as a whole, aside from the train tracks fight being a little flat I liked pretty much all of it.

I love me some Taika! I swear it. It reminded me of the bit in Ant-Man where Hank tells Hope about her mother and they just couldn't resist having Paul Rudd mugging it up at the end. That was a dud but yeah this was it done right.
post #22 of 696

Above average Marvel Movie© with the usual problems of dodgy CGI, cookie cutter plotting, overly cartoonish action and generic score.

 

Impressive characterization and acting, sharp humor and stellar production design make it memorable.

 

And Letitia Wright nearly steals the movie.  I'm in love. 

post #23 of 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

And Letitia Wright nearly steals the movie.  I'm in love.

Shuri isn't really even particularly striking on paper - we've all seen plenty of genius movie kids before - but in the hands of Wright and Coogler she's gold.
post #24 of 696
Thread Starter 
From the trailers I thought she might get a bit grating but she was a delight.

"The real question is WHAT ARE THOSE!?"
post #25 of 696

Letitia was definitely the best part of Black Museum.

post #26 of 696
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasp View Post

Letitia was definitely the best part of Black Museum.

Thank you! How did I miss that!?
post #27 of 696

Probably the hair.

 

now, if the movie ends with Shuri freezing Killmonger for all eternity in a holographic keychain...

post #28 of 696
NM
post #29 of 696
7 more hours...
post #30 of 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucho View Post

A massive part of what makes this movie so splendid is Coogler's ability to do what we yap about in our "Directors who know how to effectively establish character efficiently" thread. You GET every single character within moments of meeting them. There are like a dozen characters in this thing I want to see as leads in their own spin-offs.

The only action scene I didn't dig was the one on the tracks we all shat ourselves over a couple of weeks ago. It is better in context (SURPRISE) but still feels like the most uninspired part of the whole film. The rest of the actiony things are as good as anything I remember from any other Marvel movie and better than most due to the Winter Soldiery emotional bonds between combatants and/or witnesses.

Speaking of Winter Soldier, this was the first time I've Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
teared up at a post-credits scene.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

Splendid huh?  Just trying that out. 






Got my ticket for noon tomorrow. I'm sure I'll have a splendiferous time.
post #31 of 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim View Post





Got my ticket for noon tomorrow. I'm sure I'll have a splendiferous time.

I can't remember the last time I had such a fantabulous time at the cinema.
post #32 of 696
Thread Starter 
This whole exchange has been spiffing.
post #33 of 696
post #34 of 696
mmm... faboo...
post #35 of 696

really interesting review from Chaw:

 

http://www.filmfreakcentral.net/ffc/2018/02/black-panther-2018.html#more

 

tough one for him because his thing is all about unpacking films thematically and this review is fascinating in how it tries to do that but also acknowledging how difficult and perhaps unwise it is to try to do that with Black Panther when one's perspective/experience isn't African or African-American, since it sounds like the film is a bit of knotty enterprise when it comes to theme.

 

he basically says Killmonger is in the right, though.

 

I've heard others compare T'Challa vs. Killmonger ideology as something like MLK vs. Malcolm X, but Killmonger certainly sounds more extreme than X.

post #36 of 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasp View Post

really interesting review from Chaw:

http://www.filmfreakcentral.net/ffc/2018/02/black-panther-2018.html#more

tough one for him because his thing is all about unpacking films thematically and this review is fascinating in how it tries to do that but also acknowledging how difficult and perhaps unwise it is to try to do that with Black Panther when one's perspective/experience isn't African or African-American, since it sounds like the film is a bit of knotty enterprise when it comes to theme.

he basically says Killmonger is in the right, though.

I've heard others compare T'Challa vs. Killmonger ideology as something like MLK vs. Malcolm X, but Killmonger certainly sounds more extreme than X.

This is a splendid example of why the discussions around this film have the potential to be so stimulating. Thank goodness we've just had The Last Jedi as a beginner's level warm-up routine to lead into this main event.
post #37 of 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucho View Post


This is a splendid example of why the discussions around this film have the potential to be so stimulating. Thank goodness we've just had The Last Jedi as a beginner's level warm-up routine to lead into this main event.


haha

 

KYLO REN WILL RESTORE BALANCE TO THE FORCE

post #38 of 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasp View Post

 

I've heard others compare T'Challa vs. Killmonger ideology as something like MLK vs. Malcolm X, but Killmonger certainly sounds more extreme than X.

 

Not gonna lie - that was my immediate parallel being drawn while watching it, albeit a tad more exaggerated, of course.

 

Also - 

 

Warning: (Not really a) Spoiler! (Click to show)
"Don't scare me like that, Coloniser!" . . . just . . . beautiful.
post #39 of 696
I literally cannot wait for someone to make a post in this thread which uses more words to talk about how insanely fun Andy Serkis is in this film than it does to praise any of the black actors.

I am SO ready to pounce - jungle cat-like, with claws of righteous weaponized wokeness - on such a post, I almost feel light-headed. I wonder if this is how Black Panther feels when he lies in wait for villains.
post #40 of 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucho View Post

I literally cannot wait for someone to make a post in this thread which uses more words to talk about how insanely fun Andy Serkis is in this film than it does to praise any of the black actors.

I am SO ready to pounce - jungle cat-like, with claws of righteous weaponized wokeness - on such a post, I almost feel light-headed. I wonder if this is how Black Panther feels when he lies in wait for villains.

 

I'm going to assume that Andy Serkis insanely fun in this.  That he gloriously revels in villainy and is a worthy addition to the pantheon of MCU antagonists.  

 

I'm going to assume everyone else is, at least, alright.  

 

*grabs popcorn*

post #41 of 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucho View Post

I literally cannot wait for someone to make a post in this thread which uses more words to talk about how insanely fun Andy Serkis is in this film than it does to praise any of the black actors.

 

The wife and I both walked out of the cinema saying it's a shame he doesn't get more roles just acting as opposed to motion capture - he's just so, so good.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Was absolutely gutted at his demise.  The plot needed it, sure, but he would have been such a great recurring character for the MCU in general.
post #42 of 696
Andy Serkis is so good he made a nothing like Snoke seem interesting through sheer force of will. No doubt he’s good in this. I’d love to see him get more live action work in general.
post #43 of 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by superlaser View Post

Andy Serkis is so good he made a nothing like Snoke seem interesting through sheer force of will.

not in forwakens!

 

even he was helpless when it came to that nothingness

post #44 of 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

not in forwakens!

 

even he was helpless when it came to that nothingness

post #45 of 696

geometric rate!!!

 

2.5 hours to go...

post #46 of 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

geometric rate!!!

 

IN A PANIC, YOU'LL TRY TO PULL THE PLUG!

post #47 of 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

not in forwakens!

even he was helpless when it came to that nothingness
Performance-wise he wasn’t any less than the obviously comparable Emperor hologram in ESB. He just didn’t have an interesting context to put the performance into.
post #48 of 696

Man, I can't wait to see Serkis in this.  I bet he just completely steals the show.  

post #49 of 696
Nyong'o and Serkis are both INFINITELY better in this than they are in any Star Wars movie.

Ryan > Rian > JJ

THERE I SAID IT

It's done. Now there need be no more Star Wars talk in the Black Panther thread ever again.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
(Forest is better as Saw Gerrera than Zuri though, so I guess, TECHNICALLY, Gareth > Ryan.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post

I'm going to assume that Andy Serkis insanely fun in this.  That he gloriously revels in villainy and is a worthy addition to the pantheon of MCU antagonists.  

I'm going to assume everyone else is, at least, alright.  

*grabs popcorn*

You know what they say happens when you assume Lord.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
You get it 100% correct every time.
post #50 of 696
Pretty sure this just blew every other Marvel flick outta the water.
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