The Matrix: Solved? Link inside containing HUGE POSSIBLE SPOILERS! - Page 2

I only skimmed his theory (and, come on, guys - this is only a theory, not a spoiler by any stretch), but here's a pretty big hole I found.

He mentions Tank and other biologically born humans, but gives no explanation for their existence. As he's apparently not taking the stance that there are two levels of the matrix, one of which includes Zion, how the heck did these people (robots) come to be?

And, furthermore, if we're going off the Second Renaissance model, it's not like the machines were perfect human replicas down to a cellular level. They were metal under a surface layer of skin. We've seen people die and bleed in the real world.

Unless I'm missing some essential backup in this theory, I'm of the opinion that it's way, way off. More holes than support.

It reminds me of that documentary, Mr. Death: the Rise and Fall of Fred A. Leuchter Jr. Leuchter is so enamored with his own flawed findings that he only looks for facts to support them and disregards boatloads of facts that contradict them, ultimately concluding that the Holocaust never occurred.

I think he explained away the regular humans as being spies sent to mingle with the machines (!!!). As for the second flaw, good point. This theory of his would make more sense if the machines in Zion weren't robots and Zion was just another layer of the Matrix.

Did you get that from this paragraph?

"The orgy-dance of Zion could represent these humanoid A.I interbreeding (assuming they were were engineered to simulate humans at that level), or it could simply be the Machine trying to comprehend the full range of human experience by practicing non-linear concepts like art and pleasure, acting against the will of its more dogmatic program directive (the Sentinels).
Why else would the Machine have sent *precisely* (quote) "one Sentinel for each of us" when drilling into Zion? Since we know that the character Tank and some other people were supposedly born biologically in the unregulated world outside the Matrix, how would the Machine know the exact population of Zion unless it somehow had a remote awareness of these 'humans' as merely stray aspects of its own consciousness? (It may also be that actual human controllers are monitoring the situation, therefore sending a corresponding number of Sentinels.)
THAT is why Morpheus' cave sermon is (literally) robotic, why the humans are as emotionally unresponsive as robots (and symbolically wear funky tribal costumes), why the characters have a sense of purpose but no memory of how they acquired their skills, why they all have names descriptive of function and speak in an inaccessible language of alien *abstractions* -- exactly what you would expect from the mental perspective of a computer, complete with *information highways* (the car chase scene) that transport endless circulating data, as in *TRON*."

This is a little convoluted, so I'm not entirely sure what he's getting at, but I don't think he's saying they're spies, but that the machines might be advanced enough to procreate. Not buying that at all.

And, if the biologically-born humans were spies, having scenes of the naturally-born Link and his wife being portrayed sympathetically and somewhat clueless of the circumstances would be extremely sloppy.

<strong> Right! But I think that theory's bunk, too. And to address cynicaster's post (I think)...

From the site:
"Regarding the commonly bandied "Matrix-within-a-Matrix" theory:
That's the most obvious answer... Therefore it's WRONG!!! It's exactly what you were meant to believe so you'd stop poking around with nosy questions. If the explanation were so straightforward, it would only raise the possibility of yet another level of reality outside of that "world", producing a relativistic infinitude of a shell within a shell within a shell... going on and on forever. Storywise, that would be a cheap exit, the Wachowskis wouldn't be that predictable (we hope), and *most important*, it does nothing to resolve all of the heavy SYMBOLISM within the movie."

Overall, I think this guy just got carried away with his own theory and analyzed only the stuff that backed it up. This ain't even CLOSE to spoiler territory, IMO.

Interesting theory, but we won't know until November. What this DID do for me, however, was to get me to bump Anamatrix up to the top of my Netflix queue. I want to see what he's talking about.

Halfway through it, and I feel that it makes PERFECT sense. The Wachowski Bros. didn't count on this guy....

I think it's a great theory but ultimately, as everyone is saying, we WILL have to wait until November.

However, this is the most plausible thing i've yet heard. It makes a ton of sense, especially the EMP thing.

We will have to see...

Also, if you keep looking in that thraed, he goes on to answer some of the questions posed by people who stated he left some things out. The mush that they eat on the ships, for example. What exactly could it be?

We'll have to see, but that was a fascinating theory. Definitely a good read.

People, I wouldn't too much about spoilers. If you care about these movies, then you've probably theorizing your ass off anyway and you might even be right. This is just another theory. It's well thoughtout, but it has no concrete info about Revolutions.

Guys, read that WHOLE thread. There is more stuff mixed throughout.

Another thing- near the end of Reloaded when Neo says "Something's different now....I can feel them", people believe that Neo is starting to realize he is a robot. Interesting.

I don't know how many of you saw this, buy Will Smith said on MTV's feature on BB2, that the Matrix was pitched to him and instead he chose TWW.

He basically summarized what this article said in a comedic way. What I can't beleive is that they (MTV) let a spoiler out like this!!

Huh? Did that make sense to anyone?

Not trying to be a jerk, I just don't understand what you said at all.

Does anyone really believe that it makes sense for the EMPs to destroy "bad" robots but only render "good" robots unconscious for a couple of minutes?

Or that it just happens that everyone killed so far was conveniently a flesh-and-blood spy, in order not to reveal this oh-so-brilliant twist?

Or that the collective humanity would do the equivalent of setting a room aside for broken VCRs and playing tapes on them, instead of throwing them to the nearest dump?

double post.

I think he was trying to say:

In the MTV feature for Bad Boys 2, Smith was talking about The Matrix/Wild Wild West. During it he basically said everything in that theory thread was told to him by the Wachowskis during the pitch.

So he can't believe MTV let loose a big spoiler.

I haven't seen the MTV Bad Boys 2 feature, so I don't know if that's what Smith actually said, but I think that's was Nelson was trying to say.

Thanks, Nelson, makes sense now.

I'm sorry to inform Galvatron, but all his theories are way off base.

I've read the script of Revolutions. And before you people think that I may have read a fake, it came with Reloaded before Reloaded was out. And the script for Reloaded was dead on.

You'll see in Nov that Revolutions is more straightforward. There isn't one huge twist at all, and in fact some of the characters bite the dust (which I'm sure you people would figure already).

Guess Galvatron should go out more often. Too bad it was such a waste of time. Good guess though.

I shouldn't have read that. My frothing demand for Revolutions increases!

I give it a 95% chance of being wrong. 5% chance of being right just because it Hollywood we are talking about here. ok on second though just because of the Hollywood factor I give it a 1 in 10 chance of being right

Read 2/3rds of the whole thread instead of just the theory this time.

Still think Galvatron is so sold on his own theory that he's only seeing the details and not the big picture.

While he addresses lots of the scientific elements (and not entirely successfully, from what I can see - there's a lot of opposition in that thread, and I'm not satisfied he truly addressed some of the questions), the thematic and dramatic elements would truly suffer if the Wachowskis ended the trilogy with the revelation that everyone we care about in the film is a robot.

I find it funny how Galvatron, himself, and a few very rude others on that thread seem utterly convinced it's the most logical conclusion. It's Occam's Razor turned on its head. Interesting idea, sure. Likely? No.

This theory doesn't fit.

*Possible Spoiler to theory*
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The ending of the original Matrix brings up a huge loophole (EMP's used as a weapon aboard all hovercraft). (What was left of) The crew wasn't affected.

Thanks for the heads-up. I'll take more to this post than the page long crock o shite Galvy put up.

Trying to say that most of The Second Renaissance Part II was fabricated, and then trying to tie the ruins of New York City with the boy coming toward his home around X-mas LITERALLY without realizing that the two scenes are juxtaposed to be symbolical of the differences between the "New" Real World (the ruins) and the beginning Matrix (the boy in the snow). Plus, he kept on complimenting himself way too much to keep his inflated ego (i.e. his dick) up while thinking most of his theory was right that made say "feh" after reading that pile of garbage.

Plus, he thought that Neo was the boy at the end of the Second Renaissance Part II. I believe that the boy could be the original "One" that Morpheous tells Neo about in "The Matrix" after Neo vomits. That there was a man in the Matrix who bend the Matrix as he saw fit. That he freed the first humans and told them the truth.

"After he died, the oracle prophesized his return".

That's who I think the boy is. Plus, since the first Matrix was meant to be a paradise, henceforth the boy coming home to his parents around x-mas, usually considered to be a joyous time of year. We see the boy skipping around juxtaposed with the ruins of NYC, right after the meeting with the world leaders and the robot. But that was AFTER the first sets of humans were being plugged in. Therefore, the first version of the Matrix was running, the "perfect world", and if the original "One" freed the first, then died, that would allow enough time between then and Neo's rebirth for Zion to grow and flourish.

Sorry, got a little carried away there. Just thought I'd mention my own theoretical tidbit.

I saw the Second Renaissance's and got absolutely nothing of value out of them. I guess they were over my head or something, but i really don't think they will play very much into the plot of the movies, just more of an interesting backstory. I thought the whole kid thing was just symbolism of our world being taken over and everyone turned into batteries.

I don't think that Gravitron's theory has any chance of being right. The Matrix within a Matrix theory does have a few holes, but makes the most sense overall, and I really dont think the Wachowski's are genuises who will totally surprise us all. Hopefully they will focus on making a good movie as opposed to a "cool" one or a "really awesome twist" one.

Gravitron does bring up some good questions about why would the machines use the humans for batteries, etc, but these may just end up being unresolved questions, like many plot holes that will never be resolved from the first Matrix movie.

The hole in his theory is presented in the Enter the Matrix video game. What happens after Bane sets off the EMP blast that disrupts the plans of Zion to EMP the sentinels to hell.

The EMP blast goes off early, immediately disabling all the ships. But the people on the other ships do not keel over. Instead, the ask, "what the hell just happened," and are therefore stranded, but not passed out.

For someone who says they picked up on every little thing, he missed a very important aspect of his theory.

I agree completely.

And Carter, I think you're right about the humans not being spies in Zion thing... although I'm still not entirely sure what he means by "human obeservers" - I guess he means external observers, but as with many things Galvy seems to just skim the topic.