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The Uncanny, Unreadable X-Men

post #1 of 20
5/20/00 at 5:05pm
Thread Starter 
Has anyone been following the two main X-Men books? A couple of months ago, Chris Claremont made his return to the titles that made him famous, after a 9 or 10 year absence. And frankly, they're the worst they've ever been -- even worse than Scott Lobdell's run on the books, which is seriously saying something. Claremont's time away certainly has not improved his writing style. His characters still act like they know they're in a comic, everything is over-explained, his prose is mind-numbingly verbose, and his new creations are ridiculous and generic.

Why do i keep reading? I dunno... I've been following them since i was just a lad, and the first issues I read were the Hellfire Club stories that led to the Dark Phoenix saga. I guess it's just too hard to quit cold turkey. Maybe I've just matured and the stories have not. Whatever it is, Claremont is certainly making an argument for me pocketing the $2.50 a month for each of those books, rather than hand it over to Marvel...
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post #2 of 20
5/22/00 at 12:43pm
I think you hit the nail on the head, Dave. The problem with the X-Men is that we readers have matured and the stories haven't. The stories haven't really gone anywhere, truth be told. Some of the same storylines that were in the X-Men when I quit reading back in late '93-early '94 (who betrayed the X-Men, the Legacy Virus, etc.) are STILL dragging on! Six YEARS later! Christ.

Anyway, the straw that broke the camel's back for me was the whole thing about Sabretooth living (albiet in a cage) in the mansion, so the X-Men and the Professor could help him deal with his psychotic nature, and Wolverine just stands by and lets it happen. Bullshit. Wolverine would put Sabretooth down like the rabid dog that the 'Tooth is, with no remorse. That's what bothered me the most about the X-Men. These characters have been around for, in some cases, decades. To craft the characters, give them established personalities, and then regularly have them do things that are completely out of character, is just rediculous, and a sign of the horrid writing that has plagued the X-Men for more than decade and counting.

Hellblazer
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post #3 of 20
5/22/00 at 1:23pm
Typical Claremont Dialogue.

Shadowcat: "I will use my phasing ability, which allows me to turn my body intangible and pass through solid objects, to pass through this oncoming sword. Lucky for me I have this mutant ability, that I was born with all those years ago."

Am I right?
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post #4 of 20
5/22/00 at 1:55pm
man, that sounds like the claremont of old. i haven't been reading lately, but when he finished his vaunted run on the xmen originally, every other comment out of psylocke's mouth was how her psychic knife was the focused totality of her mental powers or some such bullshit. i'd kind of drown out the dialogue when the characters would begin the exposition on how their powers worked every panel they were in, let alone every issue.

/willko.
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post #5 of 20
5/22/00 at 2:26pm
Well, you almost have to expect dialogue like that. Someone--it may have been Stan the Man, but I'm not sure--once said that every comic is someone's first. Claremont apparently took that advice to heart, and decided he'd provide handy little jumping-on point recaps in every issue. And when you're dealing with something as (let's face it) hopelessly convoluted as the X-Men, that's a lot of shit to 'recap'.

Hellblazer
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post #6 of 20
5/22/00 at 4:38pm
well, that's a good point and i agree that the little blurb at the top of the first page that serves as a synopsis for the series doesn't do justice to the current state of the book, but i find for long term readership, it's better to collect the series and release them (ala dc's vertigo series) rather than plow ahead with useless pedantic dialogue. but seeing as how xmen is constantly in the top 5 for sales, i guess i'm wrong.

i think comic books generally aren't aimed for me as an audience anymore, which is a shame.

/willko.
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post #7 of 20
5/22/00 at 4:46pm
That's a shame my friend, buy the first Authority Trade paperback, and change your mind.

The Authority--"Behave, or get your head kicked in."

p.s. read my reviews of the first 8 issues in the sci-fighter.
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post #8 of 20
5/22/00 at 4:49pm
and BTW Hellblazer, Wolverine DID put Sabretooth down when he lived in the mansion. Popped a claw straight up through his bottom jaw, and into his brain.

He got better.
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post #9 of 20
5/22/00 at 5:24pm
Thread Starter 
That's exactly the reason for all the clarification (read: overexplanation) in every single issue, so that any random Joe or Jane could pick up the book and theoretically be able to follow it. The problem is that the 150,000 regular readers have to suffer through all the excruciating exposition EVERY SINGLE NEW ISSUE.

The new angle is that Claremont's return issues pick up the characters after a mysterious six month period, which we slowly learn the details of. Rogue is a team leader, Jean Grey lost her telekinesis (and Psylocke found it), Nightcrawler is studying to become a priest, etc.

What i want to know is, with the huge cast of established characters to choose from, why is Claremont making new heroes and villains? His latest are pathetic: "The Neo", "The Lost", "The Shockwave Riders"... it's like he heard a cool word somewhere and built characters around it... but they're BORING. I love this -- after the X-Men handily defeat a squad of these Shockwave assholes, Cable says "In my time, they were the stuff of legend. Even Apocalypse respected them." A bunch of cybergoons on jetskis? Spare me.

And everyone still announces themselves by their catchy codenames, and then uses it in normal speech over and over and over, so you don't forget their catchy codename. It's just that after reading the natural dialogue in something like Preacher or 100 Bullets or Starman or the Authority, it's really hard to return to "superhero" comics and wonder why they arent done the same way.

Claremont should also concentrate on resolving some of the dozens of dangling plotlines he left when he exited years ago...
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post #10 of 20
5/22/00 at 8:56pm
The only time I've read the X-Men books since my high school days in the early 90's is during vacations and such. All that crossover crap burned me out with all comics in general.

But that's not the reason I'll never read X-Men again. No, that's thanks to whoever thought it was a good idea to kill off Cyclops who was my favorite as a kid.

Which seems to be my lot in life cause the Hal Jordan Green Lantern was and still is my favorite comic character of all time.
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post #11 of 20
5/22/00 at 9:29pm
Cyclops died!? What the hell was THAT about?
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post #12 of 20
5/22/00 at 10:08pm
well, there was the time when all the xmen "died" when they went through the siege-perilous and came out invisible to cameras and photography and lived in australia. yeah, in hindsight i'm beginning to wonder why i liked claremont's run so much. modern comicbooks should start changing to balance out the need for new readership with the need to tell good stories. but marvel sounds like it wants to drop away from publishing to the potentially more economically solvent region of filmmaking. good or bad? i don't know.

/willko.
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post #13 of 20
5/23/00 at 12:40am
Yeahyeahyeah, wilco, that's great, but Cyclops DIED?
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post #14 of 20
5/23/00 at 12:40am
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post #15 of 20
5/23/00 at 4:06am
oh, and quatermass - killing off jordan was bad. making him evil and the destroyer of his own freakin' home town was inexcusable. dc bit the big one trying to find a bad guy to restart continuity. again. and didn't they kill off green arrow too? i don't know what's going on anymore.

i like the fact that mark waid winked at the whole thing in "the kingdom" with the implications that the infinite earths still exist. insane continuity is just another thing that makes mainstream dc/marvel comics so cool. learning the backstory is like majoring in history for a baccalaureate degree. i just wish chris claremont didn't read like a bad physics textbook.

/willko.
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post #16 of 20
5/23/00 at 7:46am
Thread Starter 
Yes, DJEvil, Cyclops recently sacrificed himself in the culmination of "The Twelve" storyline. Apocalypse gathered the 12 mutants together to absorb their power and transcend to a new level (or some sorta horseshit). The Big A was supposed to use that X-Man jackass (from "Age of Apocalypse") as a conduit for the powers, but Cyclops interfered and somehow melded with Apocalypse. No body was recovered and Jean lost her 'rapport' with him, so it is assumed he is dead.

I give it 8 months till he shows up again.
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post #17 of 20
5/23/00 at 8:29am
Claremont, king of dangling plotlines.
Did he EVER go back to the Illyana plotline? You know, the bloodstone thing? Built up forever and just...dropped, near the climax?
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post #18 of 20
5/23/00 at 11:33am
Um, I remember that Illyana died. Legacy Virus. How did THAT get wrapped up? Last I read, Moira McTaggert had contracted it, a big shocker, since she's human and the virus thusfar had only infected mutants, or Homo-Superior...

-------------------------------------------------------
Professor Evil - a PhD in comics, evil, and stupidity
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post #19 of 20
5/23/00 at 11:36am
"and BTW Hellblazer, Wolverine DID put Sabretooth down when he lived in the mansion. Popped a claw straight up through his bottom jaw, and into his brain.

He got better."

Oh, I give up.
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post #20 of 20
5/23/00 at 3:57pm
Yeah, but that was LONG after the original plot, because I stopped reading shortly after Excalibur was formed. Not out of anger, I just got bored with the stories after that.
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