Micheal & Me

I liked it when the hill-billy chic clubbed the rabbit.

Tell me again about the rabbits...

Raoul Says, "The film really furthered my hate of corporations and of the american aristocracy. But what i found almost worst is the large number of people who make their living keeping social critics away from them. Many corporations have a genuine fear of anybody who could ruin their smiley image, even though it's obvious, you need to hit people with a sledgehammer to get them to listen. "


Okay, Raoul!
Now what I want to know is WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

Feeling bad about how people are treated is one thing(Not a very helpful thing) Doing something about it is quite another thing (A good thing. A great thing, maybe)

Remember, what often happens is people tear down these corporations, like Michael Moore, who now makes good money on TV and I bet he keeps it too! He's a celebrity now, and could give a horse's arse about those people. All show and no dough. The "Down trodden Masses" are good enough to get him assignments on TV, but not good enough to get into his office and see him, right?

In fact I bet you can't get to Michael Moore with a camera, to film him while you ask him if he's forgotten the "little people" who got him to where he is today.

I should think it might make for a great documentary.

The "media" attacks corporations to raise awareness but they utterly fail to take any responsibility to DO anything about it. That's no fucking good!

OK, media, you've showed us its wrong. How do we fix it? What? You have no idea! ASSHOLES!

Be concerned and be intelligent enough to know that, when you are aware enough to know that something is wrong in the world, at that moment, it becomes your resposibility to DO something about it. There is no escaping that fact. The more responsibility you take, the better off you will be, when it comes to that area.

It is fashionable to "be aware, that the masses are downtrodden."

It is a rare person who see's the wrongness and takes action to come up with a permanant fix.

Be one of the rare ones! DO SOMETHING about it!

Oh no! You have to figure that part out for yourself!



[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-16-2000).]

Will, Michael Moore is DOING something about it by 1.) his movies, films, and tv shows that bring much needed awareness of the souless greed of corporate and wealthy america and 2.) by campaigning for Nader, whose ideas, if applied, would certainly help middle class america in the long run. I believe thats the "solution" part you asked for.

And I'm sure Moore gives to charities, helps towns - you know he contributes in someway to his hometown of Flint, Michigen.

And Will, aren't you being exactly what your accusing Moore of being - just tearing someone or something down without any productive answers? Thank you.

actually, moore is prominently giving to charities all over his hometown of flint, michigan. he continues his thorn-in-the-side-of-faceless-corporation tactics with tv shows (ie., the awful truth).

the movie roger and me is pretty funny too, in a sad, twisted way. definitely not a tourism ad for the midwest rustbelt.

/willko.

i think he's doing a bit better financially now, raoul.

look at how much blood, sweat and other bodily fluids go into financing lots of indy flicks. most end up doing shitty.

now imagine making it big (relatively speaking) after all, like michael moore did. the litmus test is that he's still doing what he set out to do (speak up for the downtrodden, etc.) and hasn't "sold out" his principles. i admire that.

/willko.

Yeah, you tell them Steve-Dave...

lamotta asks, "And Will, aren't you being exactly what your accusing Moore of being - just tearing someone or something down without any productive answers? Thank you."

You might be surprized at what I do. I will be asking you to look something over in the near future and will interested in what you think. lamotta, Yes, I think I have done much more that Michael Moore has done directly for people. If you want to know, email me and I'll bore you alone, rather than everyone on the site.

I do NOT begrudge Michael Moore or anyone the money they make, ever! However, raising awareness about something is OK, but it has to lead to some action, some strenghtening of those you make aware of a problem or it is for no purpose at all.

Ineffective action is only slightly better than no action. Michael Moore is doing something, but I fear he had a good idea, that is now getting old. He has done it a lot and it hasn't gotten him more attention. I don't think he is taken seriously. Now Ralph Nader was taken seriously and there are a lot of BIG corporations that would love to see him dead, but they can't touch him. Besides he is really no threat anymore. They have sort of nutralized him. Probably the biggest threat to the people who should be threatened is Bill Gates and they worked his ass over and got people to hate him to the point where he has all but disappeared. How many billion has he donated to people around the world. I know many on this site hate him because he is rich and successful, but the man has tried to do great things. You don't have to defend your position if you hate him. He is gone away now and they don't have to worry about what he could have done.

He can no longer screw up our "perfect lives." People who have accomplished nothing in their lives except to get elected to office, via TV, have stepped in and saved us from a man who took nothing and built it into the richest company in the world.

We are safe! Whew! That was close.

devilf: Spoken like a true asshole!

devilf says, "The other is lining up all you rich white guys, shooting you, and redistributing your wealth."

devilf: One time somebody expressed your same point of view to Henry Ford. About "how the poor people deserved some money" and how bad it was for Ford to have all that money. He told Ford he wanted his share.

Ford had his accountants, the ones he paid for their work, so they could support their families, figure out the exact amount, Ford would need to give this ding dong and gave the guy who did nothing, except bitch about how unfair it was that Henry Ford had all that money, his share, of the Ford net worth.

Ford had his accountants divide the amount of his money by all the people in the world to come up with an exact amount, that would evenly distribute his worth, if he wanted to give it equally to everyone. After all, it wouldn't have been fair for the bitching man to have gotten more than his fair share. The amount he handed the man? Twelve cents!

devilf: Do you somehow feel better or does it raise your opinion of yourself by attacking me because I was born white or
because I have worked hard and made a little money. ( I didn't inherit shit!)

Have you ever built a school with your own money for people who had no school? I have. Have you ever rebuilt a library that burned down with your own money? I have. Have you ever taken 200 kids from the inner city(who had never been) to Disneyland for Breakfast and a day at the Disney park? I have. Have you ever taken tennis shoes, jackets and watches to over 100 kids for Christmas in the inner city? I have. Have you ever paid for all the medical costs for an emergency operation to save the live of anyone? I have, twice!

You want to line me up and shoot me? You fucking jackoff, you'd have to get off your lazy, whinning ass, first to do anything and I don't think you're capable. I know you don't have the balls.

Probably like the majority of your life, it is just talk and no action.
"line them up and shoot them?" You dumb fuck!

All corporations are bad? Do you ever eat in Restaurants?

Do you buy food from Grocery Stores, which are owned by Corporations?

Do you drive a car that was made by a corporation? Buy gas from a corporation? Use a computer build and sold by a corporation? Earn money working for a corporation? Expect benefits to be paid by a corporation?

Do you have insurance? Ever been in a hospital? Ever bought tires? Traveled on a road built by a corporation?

Wow, it turns out you are not only a hateful, dumb shit, but more than just a little hypocritical, aren't you? What have you ever DONE, not thought or felt, but DONE, that would help anybody?

Do your mommy an daddy still support you, at least partially?

I thought so. You need a little more time in the real world, boy! Then come talk to me again.

"Line up the people who can actually do things in this world and shoot them," hehehehehe Where are you going to earn the money to pay the people to do the shooting for you? What, are you going to do, work for some corporation to earn the money? BWaahahahahahahahahahhahahah!

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-18-2000).]

devilf spews, "--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've met Michael Moore, and I know that he is still involved directly with groups that work daily for change (like the one I work for)."

Which one would that be, the Girl Scouts? or "Buttplug lovers against anybody making something out of their lives?" Which one knucklehead?

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-18-2000).]

devilf: Ford did not financially support Hitler. However, if you read your history you will find that the central banks did financially support him. Ford hated communisim and like many, wrongly thought Hitler would stop it. Remember, in those days, nobody had a clue what Hitler would wind up doing. In those days people said how the Germans had the trains running on time. He believed that there were too many here and abroad that would support communisim.

When you make a statement about taking me and "those like me" out and lining us up and shooting us, is that really so much more innocent from what you are now complaining about, as regards Henry Ford's words?

You really know almost nothing about me. You know I make a lot of jokes here and have the idea I have money. Okay, but why would you make statements about shooting me? I do not get that.

I appreciate your writing back and responding and I applaud your taking responsibility for doing so. Obviously, you have more balls than I thought and I fucking hate to be wrong.

Understand that while I can see why you might wish to do what you do, in life, not everyone who earns money is a selfish, uncaring asshole out to screw everyone in the world. When people get together, who have money and have started and built their own companies, you might be surprised at just what they can get done to help people. The fact that not all of us are media hounds should not lessen the impact of what we do.


P.S.
I gave at office!

This post belongs in the Culture and Free Form section, no? Should it be moved Devil and Will?

I have had my discussion with devilf and I don't see any reason to move it. People get into to things even when talking about movies or film makers, which does belong here. I haven't got anything else to say on this subject.

Hey Will, I'm curious as to what you'd have me "look over." E-mail me, dammit. (I pray to sweet holy Christ it won't make me feel "unconfortable.")

BTW, that new U2 is fucking great. Go get it if you haven't.

And lastly, anyone hear from Neil Bung lately?

(This is what lamotta on scotch and soda will get you bastards! Merry Christmas!)