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kazza---is it illegal?

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 
Okay, so I've read about the lawsuits. I use the program. I'm thinking of uninstalling it.

Here's my question. I PAID to download and run the program. Why is it illegal if I use it? Shouldn't it be the company's problem? I can understand going after people who are illegally downloading music, but all I'm doing is using a program, a service, that I paid for. Tell me why it's illegal (if it is).

I'll uninstall it if it means I'm going to get fined. I haven't been able to find a clear cut answer for this. Can someone explain it to me?
post #2 of 36
As far as I know, the program itself is legal. Using it to download copyrighted products isn't. Edit: That should read "Using it to download copyrighted products is.".

Which, let's face it, is all anyone is going to be using it for.

And if you don't mind me asking, why did you pay for it? Isn't it available to download freely from their site?

post #3 of 36
Thread Starter 
The demo is free, but the program isn't, and I wanted something I could use long time. Which, it turns out, is a mistake. Looks like I'm going to uninstall.
post #4 of 36
If you unistall it, then I don't see how you can get fined. None the less, if you bought, then you bought it to download. And as was said before, all anyone downloads is copyrighted material anyways. ILLEGAL.

OR

KaZaa is a sewer chewer, in which case this is right place to discuss the purchase of said individual. Which I think is also illegal, nontheless I think a mod will probably move this to the appropriate forum (i.e. Music or Culture)

post #5 of 36
Kazaa is totally free. And it is not illegal.
post #6 of 36
It's not illegal. If you're worried about being sued (which is kinda ridiculous to me, but some people are...) use a program like PeerGuardian to block the IPS of people trying to scan your comp.
post #7 of 36
You paid for Kazaa?
post #8 of 36
Thread Starter 
Yes, it was like...fifty cents a month. For a year.
post #9 of 36
Quote:
Parker:
Yes, it was like...fifty cents a month. For a year.
Must've been the plus version, I guess.

Use <a href="http://www.kazaalite.tk/" target="_blank">this</a>. The PROGRAM is free and legal.

post #10 of 36
Nope. Last time I checked - about a week or so ago - Kazaa Lite was completely free to download.
post #11 of 36
Oh, I didn't mean to say that the link I posted was kazaa plus, let me fix that.
post #12 of 36
Thread Starter 
Sorry for mis-posting. It didn't dawn on me to put this in the music forum.

Anyway, yeah, I sprung for kazza plus. Hence, the payment.
post #13 of 36
Quote:
grim_fist:
Oh, I didn't mean to say that the link I posted was kazaa plus, let me fix that.
Ah, I see now.

It strikes me as profoundly stupid that they are charging money for it now, considering both the fact that it's used to rip off other people's copyrighted material and that Kazaa Lite does the exact same thing for free.

post #14 of 36
"I will make it...legal..."
post #15 of 36
It was ruled in court the companies that operate the file sharing services are not accountable for people illegally sharing copyrighted material on their network.

So, the RIAA has since shifted their attack to those who have materials copyrighted by the 5 major record labels available to share. Downloading still seems to be legal, uploading files to other people (wich I believe is activated in most file sharing programs default settings) is the what the RIAA is suing peopel for. They say they are targeting people offering a 'substantial' amount of files, and they refuse to specify what quantity, as part of their feable attempt at psychological warfare against computer users.

Guessing by the fact that you are paying for an 'upgraded' version of Kazaa, you are not particularly computer savvy, or have little to no knowledge of semi-legal file aquisition.

There are amny filesharing networks, Kazaa is the largest and mos tpopular (also the only one that the RIAA says it is using to find people to sue). The way the sue you is, they determine that they are able to download files from YOU, aquire your IP (I haven't used Kazaa in a while, so I don't know if the ability to see soemone's IP is built in or if they have to use soem other program).

Once they have your IP, they use it to determine your Internet Service Provider (ISP). Using the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (learn more at <a href="http://www.eff.org)" target="_blank">www.eff.org)</a> they are able to send a subpoena to your ISP, forcing them to turn over your identity, so that they can sue you. Some ISPs, like Verizon, are fighting legal battles against the RIAA for this, but in one case so far Verizon has lost and was forced to turn over customer's identities to the RIAA.

If your at college, your on a college network, so that is who they sen dthe subpoena to. Each college is different in dealign with this. Some will refuse to cooperate with the RIAA, but most will be fine with sucking RIAA dick, and suspend or revoke your internet access, or allow you to get sued.

So, the lesson here is if your worried about legality, don't share any files with other people (that means disable the sharing feature in the options). If you insist on sticking with Kazaa, for god's sake get a variant of Kazaa Lite. It's free, and doesnt have the spyware of regular free Kazaa.
post #16 of 36
Quote:
Kyle Reese:
Downloading still seems to be legal, uploading files to other people (wich I believe is activated in most file sharing programs default settings) is the what the RIAA is suing peopel for.
I could be wrong, but I think downloadng, as well as sharing copyrighted media is illegal. Just that uploading allows your IP to be picked up. So while downloading is illegal, it's the uploading you'll get caught for.

I wouldn't consider it something to worry about unless you have a huge amount of MP3s on your hard drive. Even then, it's an extreme long shot you'll be met with legal action. What was it, a dozen people who got sued? Out of millions of people with large amounts of illegal files.
post #17 of 36
1. Paying for anything mp3 related should be illegal.

2. The 12 year old girl that the RIAA sued REGISTERD for the Kazaa pay service.

They had all her info, so....way to not attract attention there.

3. Kazaa Lite (k++, etc) is also illegal. It is an unauthorized version of copyrighted software, and it says as much on their website.

4. Do not worry, this is now a fight between two big mean corporate structures.

The RIAA has apparently picked a fight with Pac Bell, along with many other huge ISPs, by threatening what makes up 70% of their bandwidth, and thus their PROFITS.

5. Don't shite-it until all these legal battles are won in favor of the RIAA.

Just be safe. Go to <a href="http://www.zeropaid.com" target="_blank">Zeropaid</a> or other websites, to learn and get the best software.
post #18 of 36
Whether downloading is illegal or not is completely up to interpretation. What if you have the CD? What if you USED to have the CD and you sold it, does that mean you have to delete the mp3s you extracted from it? What if your friend let you borrow the CD once? What if you taped the song off the radio, or taped the video off MTV, both entirely legal, and you want a high quality version? Are you going to let the RIAA define for you exactly what level of quality is free or not?

The DMCA is completely up to interpretation, that is it's up to media corporations to interpret it as they wish, and it gives them the power to file subpoenas to do whatever they wish.

If you want to talk moral bullshit, like 'theft' I don't think 'theft' is a real concept in the computer world. Data is infinitely replicable. Let's say you have a legally bought mp3. You right click on it, hit Copy, then paste it in another directory. It now exists in two locations on your hard drive. Would you say that you illegally manufactured that second mp3? Would you say that you are illegally posessing a second copy of it?

I believe in supporting the artist and buying their CD if I enjoy their stuff enough fromt he mp3s I got. I've bought more CDs and gotten into more music than I EVER would have without file sharing networks. Every time I read a positive review of a CD, I can check it out myself without blindly buying it. I end up finding a lot of music that amazes me, and I buy it not because of some moral obligation to the RIAA (though a good bit of the stuff I buy is from non-RIAA labels) but because I FEEL like it. No reason other than that.

The RIAA are desperately trying to comprehend this 'technology' thing. They fear it, they don't understand it, so all they can do is throw millions of dollars of lawyers at it until they can figure out how to restrict everyone from it so they can safely make their money the same way they always have, and create a new monopoly network of payola. They are in complete ignorance of all the changes digital media is beginning to bring to the way business is done. Their time is simply over.

For God's sake, look at the quote in my sig. Here's the audio clip I heard that in, if your interested. <a href="http://discover.npr.org/rundowns/segment.jhtml?wfId=1311957" target="_blank">http://discover.npr.org/rundowns/segment.jhtml?wfId=1311957</a>

post #19 of 36
I bought my first PC only 3 months ago,before that I'd never used one before,my sister and I would like to use a program like Kazaa lite to download music files,but being new to the world of PC's I find the whole thing confusing.
I've been to the site,read the instructions,gone to the download section and I couldn't make any sense out of it,can anyone with a little more experiance give a newcomer a hand?.
post #20 of 36
Whether downloading is illegal or not is completely up to interpretation.

No it's not. It is completely illegal based on US copyright laws.

What if you have the CD?

There is no provision in the law for you to have a legal backup of that CD.

What if you USED to have the CD and you sold it, does that mean you have to delete the mp3s you extracted from it?

Yes because it was illegal for you to make copies of the music to begin with.

What if your friend let you borrow the CD once?

Lending your CD's is not illegal, and everything your friends to with said lent CDs is on them. You would not be on the hook for them making copies providing you weren't foolish enough to have documentation of you lending them the music for the purpose of making a copy.

What if you taped the song off the radio, or taped the video off MTV, both entirely legal, and you want a high quality version?

Actually both are illegal. Just because you rarely see people get busted for it doesn't mean that materials broadcast over public networks aren't protected.

Are you going to let the RIAA define for you exactly what level of quality is free or not?

The RIAA hasn't. Copyright laws have. You do not hae any leeway or justification in the law to make copies of muci/videos/films/media unless you have the explicit permission of the copyright holder.

It's up to you if you are morally OK with piracy. Personally, I don't have huge issues with it, but make no mistake, it is piracy no matter how you slice it.
post #21 of 36
post #22 of 36
Here's something that has always bugged me?

What about blank audio tapes that say in big letters on the case "Great for CDs", thereby implying copying a CD to tape is one use of the tape. According to Ludwig, that is wrong in every instance, so how do the blank tape companies get away with that?

Can't think of an exact example to compare to in the blank CD realm, but I'm sure there's something comparable out there.
post #23 of 36
Quote:
JWinge1, Napoleon in Rags:
Can't think of an exact example to compare to in the blank CD realm, but I'm sure there's something comparable out there.
Advertised on the outside of blank CD cases: "Holds over 80 minutes of music!!"
post #24 of 36
The RIAA is simply fucked, because technology has recently come around to producing the most effective way of lending items, EVER.

The fact that it has occured after their most greedy and indulgent period ever (20 dollars for a CD in '97) is ironic.

And for me, in additon to a lot of other people, VERY satisfying.

It's because of this that laws have been changed regarding internet use (you don't have to actually SELL the copies any more for it to be illegal), and in my opinion, have become unconstitutional.

The RIAA simply got to these courts first.

Like I said, go to <a href="http://www.zeropaid.com" target="_blank">Zeropaid</a> and read the article about one of the many Judges who are starting to question the legality of the recently written laws.

The Bells and other ISPs (huge ones like AOL/Time Warner) have just as big a lobby (if not bigger) as the RIAA, and now, they have a dog in this fight.

Get 'em boys.

post #25 of 36
Astro Zombie: If you are on a PC, and NOT a MAC, then this should work for you.

If anything doesn't work, just post whatever things you are stuck on.

1. Go to <a href="http://www.kazaalite.tk" target="_blank">Kazaa Lite's website</a>

2. Under downloads, click on Kazaa Lite K++

This is the version that you probably want to start with.

3. If you want Kazaa in English, click on the English button, which is the top option.

Do not worry about the other downloads, as they are typically included with the Kazaa package that you are about to download.

4. Click on Download Location 1.

5. Now, the middle of the page will open to a wacky Dutch download website.

6. Scroll down to Kazaa Lite K++ 2.4.2 English it should be the 7th major category from the top.

7. Now, on this particular category, there are 12 sub categories. These are all download FTPs.

Just click on the second one, which should read [ONLINE] fe3.edskes.com/klitekpp242e.exe

The first one for some reason doesn't want to give me a kazaa lite installer with uncorrupterd setup files right now.

8. After clicking on that, you should get a message box that asks you if you want to open the file, or save it on your computer.

9. Go ahead and click save , as you may need to go through the install procedure more than once.

10. You should get a "save as" message box, with a blue border on the top.

11. Right below that blue border you'll find a couple of little icons, move your mouse cursor over them until you have the one that gives you the message "up one level".

It should look like a file folder with a green arrow in front of it pointing upwards.

12. Click this icon until it becomes gray, and you cannot click it any more.

13. You should now be in the folder designated for your desktop, and it should say "desktop" at the left of the icons you just clicked.

14. Click save. Saving it on your desktop makes it easy to find, so you don't have to hunt through directories all the time.

And of course, it makes deleting this file easier, later, when you don't need it anymore.

15. Another message box with the progress on your download should appear, and give you three options, once your download is done.

16. Click open

17. You will then get another box with a setup wizard for Kazaa Lite K++.

You don't necessary HAVE to close all other programs, but you may want to if your computer is running slow.

18. Click Next &gt;

(Remember, you can use the &lt; Back and Next &gt; buttons to go back and forth if you need to go back and change different things.)

19. The license agreement is a bunch of bullhonkey.

Read it if you like, but contracts mean nothing in California and foreign countries.

20. Put a dot next to "I accept the Agreement"

(Don't worry, you're just signing away your firstborn child)

21. The next page is also more bullhonkey, with stuff that you really don't need to read right now.

Just click Next &gt; again.

22. Now, you should be at "Select Destination Directory".

Just click Next &gt; again, and it should put Kazaa in your Program Files directory.

You of course don't have to put it here, you could put it on your desktop or whereever you want, but Program Files works for me.

It also seems to do well with other programs that auto-install, etc.

23. Not much Longer to go. You should be at Select Components.

They give you a bunch of options again, the only one you may want to mess with is Supertrick, which supposedly blocks pop-up ads.

Use at your own risk.

24. Now, Select Start Menu Folder.

If you don't want it on your start menu, you could just check the box in the lower left hand corner.

Either way you decide, click Next &gt; afterwards.

25. Now, Select Additional Tasks.

This gives you an option of selcting how many Kazaa-related Icons you want on your desktop.

I would suggest all of them except "Create a Quick launch Icon For 'Kazaa Lite K++'"

The first option, which is for a plain old desktop icon, performs EXACTLY the same function.

Also, make sure to have an icon for "My Shared Folder".

It's another ease of use thing.

26. Now, we're at Ready to Install.

This just summarizes the options you've selected.

Fell free to double check them, to make sure they are the ones you want.

27. Click Install.

28. After installing, you should get a box that looks like the beginning Setup Wizard one, that has a "finish" button, and a check box for "Start Kazaa Lite K++ now".

Go ahead and leave that box checked, it will open up a wizard to help you select a username, password, etc.

29. Another box titled "Wizard" will open.

Click Yes.

This will help set up your username, etc.

30. When the next box opens, click Next &gt;.

31. For the "User Name-Network Name" box, it really doesn't matter what you put in, I think that Kazaa Lite lets multiple users have the same name.

This is good for anonimity, in my opinion.

32. My Shared Folder Location.

The standard one they give you is fine.

After all, you can always use the shortcut for it that's right on your desktop.

33. Internet Connection Type.

Select whatever you think you are on.

Remember, these options will determine your number of downloads, etc.

34. Congratulations! You've completed the wizard!

Another summary of the options that your have chosen.

Again, you can use the Forward and Back buttons to change any that you may need to.

35. The last thing to do is run Kazaa Lite.

There's another box to check to do it immediately.

36. Click Finish.

37. You're done! Now give me five stars.

P.S. Sorry if this stuff is too thourough/basic, I really can't be sure about the skill level of whoever uses it.

Also, putting things in your "My Shared Folder" makes them visible on the internet to other people.

Anything that you don't want other people to know you have, put it somewhere else.

Kazaa has a bunch of features, the most important ones being Search, (find files) Traffic (shows your downloads and uploads in progress), and maybe My Kazaa Lite K++ as it lets you find, delete, etc, files in your "My Shared Folder"

Of course, you can just open My Shared Folder and do all that stuff from there.
post #26 of 36
Thanks for your help Agent Black Smith,I'm gonna try and download the program latter this evening if I have any problems I'll get back to you,cheers mate!.
post #27 of 36
I'll reprint some of the fair use stuff Reese linked to for purposes of discussion:

3. How Do You Know If It's Fair Use?

There are no clear-cut rules for deciding what's fair use and there are no "automatic" classes of fair uses. Fair use is decided by a judge, on a case by case basis, after balancing the four factors listed in section 107 of the Copyright statute. The factors to be considered include:

* The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes -- Courts are more likely to find fair use where the use is for noncommercial purposes.

* The nature of the copyrighted work -- A particular use is more likely to be fair where the copied work is factual rather than creative.
The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole -- A court will balance this factor toward a finding of fair use where the amount taken is small or insignificant in proportion to the overall work.

* The effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work -- If the court finds the newly created work is not a substitute product for the copyrighted work, it will be more likely to weigh this factor in favor of fair use.


4. What's been recognized as fair use?

Courts have previously found that a use was fair where the use of the copyrighted work was socially beneficial. In particular, U.S. courts have recognized the following fair uses: criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, research and parodies.

In addition, in 1984 the Supreme Court held that time-shifting (for example, private, non-commercial home taping of television programs with a VCR to permit later viewing) is fair use. (Sony Corporation of America v. Universal City Studios, 464 U.S. 417 (1984, S.C.)

Although the legal basis is not completely settled, many lawyers believe that the following (and many other uses) are also fair uses:

* Space-shifting or format-shifting - that is, taking content you own in one format and putting it into another format, for personal, non-commercial use. For instance, "ripping" an audio CD (that is, making an MP3-format version of an audio CD that you already own) is considered fair use by many lawyers, based on the 1984 Betamax decision and the 1999 Rio MP3 player decision (RIAA v. Diamond Multimedia, 180 F. 3d 1072, 1079, 9th Circ. 1999.)

* Making a personal back-up copy of content you own - for instance, burning a copy of an audio CD you own.


5. Is Fair Use a Right or Merely a Defense?

Lawyers disagree about the conceptual nature of fair use. Some lawyers claim that fair use is merely a defense to a claim of copyright infringement. Although fair use is often raised as a defense, many lawyers argue that fair use can also be viewed as having a broader scope than this. If fair use is viewed as a limitation on the exclusive rights of copyright holders, fair use can be seen as a scope of positive freedom available to users of copyrighted material. On this view, fair use is the space which the U.S. copyright system recognizes between the rights granted to copyright holders and the rights reserved to the public, where uses of works may or may not be subject to copyright protection. Copyright law gives the decision about whether copyright law applies to a particular use in this space to a Federal Court judge, to decide after weighing up all relevant factors and the underlying policies of copyright law.

I wasn't aware of the supreme court's descision on time shifting. This makes taping shows and movies off of TV legal IF all you are doing with them is viewing them at a later date.

The probem with the idea of Fair Use is that it is merely a set of guidelines and is open to control and interpretation by the courts. If a judge is in AOL/Time Warner's pocket, Fair Use arguements will never be permitted as a credible defense against some of the stuff mentioned above. Legal precedent in a case-by-case basis isn't enough to ensure that similar cases have to be decided the same way. You have to have Supreme Court descisions to set precedent that will become difficult to break by a plantiff's legal team.

For example, even though there was a descision mentioned above that it was OK in a particular case to make backup copies of CD's for personal use, this was an individual interpretation of the law and not the creation of a law that would govern each and every case of CD copying. If subsequent people got brought to court for copying CDs (which, strictly speaking, is illegal unless you have the copyright holders explicit permission), the defense team could cite the older descision towards defending their client, but the judge is not legally bound to accept that other judge's ruling as part of his ruling. And given how much money the RIAA is bandying about, I can guarantee more judgements in favour of the music industry VS lowly us.

[edited for spelling]

post #28 of 36
Can't think of an exact example to compare to in the blank CD realm, but I'm sure there's something comparable out there.

Advertised on the outside of blank CD cases: "Holds over 80 minutes of music!!"


I never thought of this before! I wonder if the blank media companies get into trouble for things like this?
post #29 of 36
Funny thing is, a lot of the blank media companies are in some way connected to the music companies. "Hey, we're going to provide you the medium to copy our music, then sue when you do!"
post #30 of 36
(Bill Hicks quote to follow)

"It's like Jack Palance in that movie Shane..." "Pick up the gun..."
post #31 of 36
Quote:
Ludwig HAD HIS FEELINGS HURT:
Can't think of an exact example to compare to in the blank CD realm, but I'm sure there's something comparable out there.

Advertised on the outside of blank CD cases: "Holds over 80 minutes of music!!"


I never thought of this before! I wonder if the blank media companies get into trouble for things like this?
<a href="http://wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60505,00.html" target="_blank">LOS ANGELES -- A group of computer owners has filed a lawsuit against some of the world's biggest makers of personal computers, claiming that their advertising deceptively overstates the true capacity of their hard drives. </a>
post #32 of 36
Quote:
Ludwig HAD HIS FEELINGS HURT:
Can't think of an exact example to compare to in the blank CD realm, but I'm sure there's something comparable out there.

Advertised on the outside of blank CD cases: "Holds over 80 minutes of music!!"


I never thought of this before! I wonder if the blank media companies get into trouble for things like this?
Well since there are perfectly legal ways to download music adn burn CD's I can't see the blank media creators as being liable.
post #33 of 36
Addendum for Astro Zombie (and others who are replacing Kazza with Kazza Lite):

BEFORE you install the Lite version, uninstall Kazza, and then go to <a href="http://www.lavasoft.de" target="_blank">www.lavasoft.de</a> and download AdAware. Update it's definitions, and scan your system. Remove everything that pops up. This should get rid of the spyware that was installed when you installed the original version of Kazza, along with whatever else you may have accumulated.

You might also want to go get Spybot: Search and Destroy, which is another good free spyware removal tool.
post #34 of 36
Good call, personally I prefer <a href="http://www.majorgeeks.com" target="_blank">www.MajorGeeks.com</a> for my computer clean up. It's just a really easy site to navigate.
post #35 of 36
Quote:
Capt. Eucalyptus (Devout Slaterian):
Quote:
Ludwig HAD HIS FEELINGS HURT:
Can't think of an exact example to compare to in the blank CD realm, but I'm sure there's something comparable out there.

Advertised on the outside of blank CD cases: "Holds over 80 minutes of music!!"


I never thought of this before! I wonder if the blank media companies get into trouble for things like this?
Well since there are perfectly legal ways to download music adn burn CD's I can't see the blank media creators as being liable.
OK, but what about my original question about blank cassettes advertising "Great for CDs." What is a perfectly legal interpretation of that ad?
post #36 of 36
Shit!

'Preciate it Eyeball.

I totally forgot about that; I also used a program called <a href="http://www.spywareinfo.com/~merijn/" target="_blank">Kazaabegone</a> which removes all the components that Kazaa installs before I got Kazaa lite.

Other than that, personally, I use <a href="http://spybot.eon.net.au/index.php?lang=en&page=download" target="_blank">Spybot</a> to get rid of spyware/adware; it works pretty darn well.

Of course, anyone who does not have Kazaa on their computer yet, does not need to worry about that particular issue.

But I would recommend getting something just to check for stuff every once in a while.

P.S. While we're on the subject, you may want to download and run something like <a href="http://vil.nai.com/vil/stinger/" target="_blank">Network Associates' Stinger</a>.

It's a small, easy to use prog that cleans your system of the more popular (well, actually all) recent viruses and trojans.

(many of which you can catch from things like Kazaa.)

That, or any little program like it may come in handy.

(I got that stupid blaster worm doing RPCs on my computer all day long a few weeks back.)
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