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For RathBandu: Harlan Ellison

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 
Harlan Ellison is a slippery old fuck, a wordsmith, and one of the best writers you will ever read. His stuff runs from the horrific to the majestic, and the entire gamut in between.

He writes primarily short stories, although he is credited in his credits for writing over 70 books as well. I feel he has done this MOSTLY under psuedonyms (Arthur Byron Cover, for one that I have uncovered) and harbor the secret belief that he is Donald Westlake/Richard Stark, because of one line in a Parker book that felt so Harlan it was like I could see him grinning over the page.

As far as where you should start? Five years ago it would have been too hard to say, and then they published "The Essential Ellison". It is HUGE. Get the hardback if you can ($30 at Borders or Barnes and Nobles), the paperback if you must ($19.95). That has got everything from his first stories when he was a kid, like 11 or so, all the way up to what he terms "The Classics", four of his greatest works, and it runs the spectrum in between from greater and lesser writings. The whole book ends with two essays, one titled "The Thick Red Moment", about America's fascination with violence, and "Driving In The Spikes", an essay about the proper methods of taking revenge.

Anyhoo. I cannot strongly enough recommend 'The Essential Ellison', although after that pick up the trade paperbacks of 'Angry Candy' and 'Slippage'. Between the two of those are some of his best work ever, and it is his work of recent years. Age and heart problems have not slowed this man down.

In 'Angry Candy' read 'Paladin of the Lost Hour', and in 'Slippage' read 'Mephisto in Onyx' and 'The Man Who Rowed Christopher Columbus Ashore' and lastly 'Scartaris, June 28th'.

But above all, pick up The Essential Ellison and read 'A Boy and His Dog'. It is, possibly, the best short story ever.
post #2 of 40
I'll vouch for that.
post #3 of 40
Thread Starter 
Glad you liked it. Heh. Brutal, beautiful, lyrical stuff, ain't it?
post #4 of 40
And his collection Deathbird Stories must not be read in one sitting. You'll slit your wrists if you do ... great stuff. Whimper of Whipped Dogs .... oh, man.
post #5 of 40
You're welcome, Xymog. Now give me your Ellison collection (since you have more than me.)

I do happen to have Ellison's autograph on two books ...

He nearly killed me the first time I met him (as a young, snot-nosed, fanboy). I asked him to sign the 10-page James Blish adaptation of City On The Edge of Forever. He insisted I buy one of his books to sign. I pulled the bottom of my pockets out, and explained I'd spent the last of my convention money on a glowing (flashlight) lightsaber. He, grumbling and swearing, signed Blish's work.

Later, I got his sig on "Ellison Wonderland" ... and explained what I had done as a child. He laughed.
post #6 of 40
I turned you on to Dan Simmons, too, right?

I'm eternally grateful to you for Jacqueline Susanne and Sidney Sheldon.
post #7 of 40
Oh, and CHUD. Don't forget CHUD. I found CHUD for you, too. What have you done for me lately?

**and for everyone else, Xymog dances goofy.** <--- successful edge removal performed by blunt instrument
post #8 of 40
Thank you posters for all your help.
post #9 of 40
I predict that RathBandu will be spending a lot of money, and a lot of time searching through used and collector's bookstores attempting to find small-press, out-of-print, Ellison.
post #10 of 40
I have already spent hours of precious time rummaging through used bookstores for books by my hero, Joe Bob Briggs. So I know the territory.
post #11 of 40
The book (title slipped my mind) with all his movie reviews in it has the story.
He still gave Terminator a good review. It was just obviously influenced by Demon with a Glass Hand, and he wanted credit...and got it. He didn't sue him for all he was worth, he just got his professional cut and dropped it.
It was just the first in many "homages" Cameron's done.

BTW, if you EVER get a chance to join his audio book club, do so. Or hear him speak. He's a born storyteller, and is wonderful to listen to. I wish someone would just interview him in a relaxed atmosphere (not Tom Snyder) and sell the interviews.

And if you ever get to see the first episode of the new Twilight Zone, called Shatterday, with Bruce Willis (directed by Wes Craven, produced by JMS), do so. It's from his story/book...which also contains Jeffty Is Five.
post #12 of 40
Whatup, Rath!

Screw Harlan-Job Bob is where it's at.

post #13 of 40
If you can find them, The Glass Teat & The Other Glass Teat are must-reads...while obstensively TV reviewsfrom the 60s & 70s, the books were often used in 80s as supplementals to American Culture classes because he tended to go off on other things, like race riots, the horror that is that damn pagent JBRamsey won (he covers the very first one...at length. His revulsion by it is worth the price of hunting the book down)

White Wolf/Borealis is reprinting all his works...slowly...in a series called EdgeWorks. Eventually they'll get to these.
post #14 of 40
Martin's series is good stuff Blofeld, read it.

Wasn't Ellison also a conceptual consultant on Babylon 5?
post #15 of 40
Thread Starter 
Yes, he was. And I thought that the Terminator story basis was 'Soldier', not 'Demon with a Glass Hand'.

And yeah, he walked away from that with $300,000, and was happy.
post #16 of 40
I think Demon with a Glass Hand was the source material for an original Outer Limits story. I believe (and it pains me to say) grendel is correct about Soldier.
post #17 of 40
Harlan Ellison is amazing. I've been to many of his book signings and he always has something cantankerous to say.

Dan Simmons is another profoundly talented writer. Song of Kali was fucked up beyond description. Of his books, though, I think Children of the Night should be made into a flick. My favorite of his, though, is Hyperion. I would love to see a tv miniseries made from that, kind of harkening back to that Martian Chronicles miniseries from the 70s?

Other contemporary genre writers I think are worth a look if you haven't read before: Greg Bear, Orson Scott Card, John Shirley, William Gibson and, of course, Neal Stephenson.
post #18 of 40
I assume when you say that Song of Kali is "fucked up beyond description", you mean it's that good -- and that the tale it tells is so horrifying ...
post #19 of 40
And re: Song of Ice and Fire ... I have the two books. I intend to read them. I started at one point and went in about 100 pages, and said to myself "this is going to be SO FUCKING GOOD, YOU'D BETTER NOT GET INTO THIS NOW. Because wife, children, business, and health will suffer." They are awaiting a lengthy weekend .. you know, one of those times that I send the wife & kids out of town, and chuck life away for 4 straight days -- the way I read King's It.
post #20 of 40
Thread Starter 
Well come up with that QUICK, Blo, because if you don't read those pronto, Xymog and I are going to ream you, but not in that pleasant way.
post #21 of 40
It was Soldier. I have no idea why I said Demon With A Glass Hand. Maybe I'm still wishing the sequel he was going to write for B5 would have happened (his heart attack kinda killed that script, then the show was over. But Jerry Doyle's muttered something about talking to people about a new show in the B5 universe, so who knows?)
post #22 of 40
I saw him recently at Aggie Con, where he went on at length about the earthquake (he got beat up by his house durning it) and the heart attack, not to mention the miscommunication that kept him away from AggieCon for 20 years*. Uncle Harlan's either on or off, there's no in between.
He's more careful after his last heart attack, though, which may be the reason for that cancelation. He went through...alot, because he put off going to the hospital for a while.

*Story as I remember him telling it (numbers are approximations): They went to a...well it wasn't Denny's, but it was that type of place. Howard Johnsons? Whatever, they went there, about 60 people from the con, and you have to understand, College Station is this tiny hick town with a high-tech college in it. Closest major city is Houston about 90 mins away. SO, you have nothing to do in the damn place, but alot of highly imaginative types trapped in a town full of country folks and military band types (the other thing the college is known for). *NOW* they're used to AggieCon, but back then, these people were WEIRD. Hyper and animated, by their standards. To us, they were just going out to dinner with friends.
They all ordered. Kept talking. 30 mins pass. They ask about the food. They're getting hunry...told it's comming. 30 more mins pass...same routine. 45 more mins later, Harlan notices they haven't seen the waitress in a while. He starts looking around...doesn't see *anyone* who works there. He wanders back to the kitchen...no one, and everything's shut down.
The people who worked there decided they didn't want to serve 60+ people and had slipped out the back without bothering to tell anyone.
Harlan & Company trashed the place.
Does he feel proud of it? No. Was it juvenile? Yes. Would he do it again? Probably not...well, ok, probably. But he found out later that AggieCon picked up the hefty bill for it. AggieCon is underwritten (well, was until recently) by the university. Harlan had fun at the con, but got a cold response from them afterwards. He figured it was due to being the ringleader at the Great Howard Johnson Riot of Texas.
Truth came out, 20 years later: The contact he had responded to actually intensely disliked him (most people either love him or hate him), and had given him the cold shoulder, while reporting to others at Cephid Variable (the student group throwing the con, and a rather major force in Texas fandom) that Harlan was giving THEM the cold shoulder. When this was discovered, they got him back for another con. Him & Terry Pratchett at one con was...interesting. Unfortunately, I worked most of it with Hastur's games, so if they ever met, I missed it.

post #23 of 40
I just finished reading the two essays in the back of the book and...

HOLY SHIT. My life has been changed.
post #24 of 40
WHOOOOO-HOOOOO! A convert.
post #25 of 40
Thread Starter 
Thanks be to God, another heathen has been born!

Err, okay, maybe that needs a rephrasing...
post #26 of 40
Side note: Best thing ever written by Stephen King is his into to Ellison's collection of horror called STALKING THE NIGHTMARE. Ironically, he's talking about "milk taking on the flavor of whatever it's next to in the fridge"...meaning he feels his best stuff always comes after reading some of the greats, like Ellison.
While I'm not a fan of King's work itself (I like his stories in general, and think he's fun, personally, I can never seem to actually READ him), that essay is great.
post #27 of 40
Thread Starter 
One hopes, one hopes.

Now, cease all other activity until you have read "A Boy and His Dog". Then get back to us the changed man that you will doubtless be.
post #28 of 40
Or, get the audiobook read by him.
Actually, the best one I've heard yet is Paladin of Lost Hour, on CD. His reading is phenomenal.
post #29 of 40
just read "Asleep, with still hands"

Great inventive story, it inspired me to try my hand at this writing gig again.
post #30 of 40
Thread Starter 
*sniff* I'm so proud of my boy chenzzo! *sniff*

<wipes away solitary tear>
post #31 of 40
which story should I read next?
post #32 of 40
Thread Starter 
I don't even remember what's in the book.

Read "The Beast Who Shouted Love At The Heart of the World". Then trip out.
post #33 of 40
Just read, chenzzo -- you pansy ass! (or try I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, or Love is Just Sex Misspelled, or .... JUST READ!)
post #34 of 40
Thread Starter 
I think he only has the one book: The Beast That Shouted Pants At The Heart Of The World, because I sent it to him.
post #35 of 40
Oh. OK. So he's going to be, single-handedly, responsible for the economic decline of publishing in the world. Thanks, chenzzo. Pansy-ass.
post #36 of 40
Blofeld, you suck.

I had never read Ellison until grendel sent me the book "The beast who shouted love at the heart of the World." Included in the book was a note to read "A boy an dhis dog" first, followed by "Asleep with still hands."

These stories were good so I was only asking for his recommendation for other great stories in THAT book. I'm reading these short stories in my spare time between reading about 3 or 4 other books, and I want to read the best ones.

So neener to you!

[This message has been edited by chenzzo (edited 08-16-2000).]
post #37 of 40
Just wanted to chime in with a lil' love for Ellison and Simmons guys. Two of my faves. Also, Martin's "Song of Ice and Fire" is very, very good stuff.

Does Ellison still do the thing where a celebrity/other author gives him a story title and he churns out a story in a bookstore in a couple of hours? I *think* I remember him saying that the worst was Robin Williams (I think) who gave him "Vampire Computer: The Bit that Bytes." HE hates computers.
post #38 of 40
Thread Starter 
He does not. There are a number of reasons for this (as there are for everything, duh), and some of them are A)he no longer has to do stuff to be publicized, B)he's frickin' old and feeble and these things tax him, C)fandom ain't what it used to be: The greatest portion of his fan base was in their early twenties circa 1968-1972, making them now in their forties and fifties, and most people in that age bracket, if still interested at all, would rather exchange a minute's worth of words over a book signing than stare in awe as he types in a bookstore window. Those that are TRUE fanboys and are in their forties or fifties are either 1: to wierd to meet, even in a public place, or 2: not to be trusted as there is a HUGE debate in the sci-fi/fantasy publishing world that has split them down the middle, and that is whether or not Harlan's delayed (almost fifteen years now, I believe) book 'The Last Dangerous Visions' is outright snobbish theft on his part or whether he should be allowed his reasons.

That book has unpublished stories in it by some of the grandmasters of the genre, and some of these guys are dead. Thing is, the rights on this thing are all fucked-up so that Harlan, legally, has the rights of FIRST PUBLICATION on the stories he has already bought, therefore, even if the family of some of these writers HAVE the stories, they can't see print UNTIL Harlan prints 'The Last Dangerous Visions'. Makes me wonder how dated it is at this point, or whether we'll ever see it.

Still, while I can see this just being a Harlan snit, and DO feel sorry for those whose art is involved (i.e.trapped), Harlan was the one who "gelled" writing for me, the one who made it all come together: He said, "To be a writer, you have to write. Not like it's your job, and not like it's your love. You have to write like it's your holy chore, you have to write like you are compelled from above and within and without and with everything that you are. You have to write BAD stories, you have to write COWBOY stories, you have to write period pieces and opinion essays and speeches, and plays, and stuff you wouldn't show your mother and don't wanna see YOURSELF, but you can't stop. If you can stop, ever, if you can stop writing, or thinking about writing, or planning what you'll be writing as soon as you get in the hot seat, if you can stop that for even TEN MINUTES, you're not a writer. You're a person who can type pretty."

BAM! I've been like that since I wrote my first short story for school at fifteen.

King had a good addition to that with: If you don't have time to read, you don't have time to write.

Both King and Ellison (and me, for that matter) are huge believers in knowing your craft through "the other guy". And that means reading it all. Interviews, articles, speeches to colleges (there's a good one by DeLint that you can get to from Vachss' web-site), to rotary clubs. Stories, good ones, bad ones, HORRIBLE AWFUL MAKE YOUR EYES BLEED STORIES (these are typically written by acquaintances who want you to "go over it for them" or "mark it up", and will not understand ANY criticism, constructive or outright. Refusal to accept the task is almost always your only hope...unless, of course, I am the one asking you to read...heh.), and occasionally, the treasures that you find among the crap.

You have to read good stories with bad premises (Stinger by McCammon), bad stories with GOOD premises (Koontz, almost anything, and Swan Song: again by McCammon), stories that seem good at first and at the end leave you unsatisfied, and you wonder what happened to turn it into crap (Waiting by Frank M. Robinson, and that Charles Grant End-Of-The-World trilogy or quadrology or whatever that had hope yet sucked), stories that you would not read if you were not a writer (exploitation books from the sixties, the seventies, all about drugs and nookie and killing and such), or God Forbid, Ayn Rand novels (or worse, ARTICLES or MEMOIRS! The woman frightens me from beyond the grave), Charles Grodin's autobiography ("It would be so nice if you weren't here") which is MUCH better than the man or any acting he's done and surprisingly worth a read...you have to read all of this, NAY, you even have to read what I am writing RIGHT NOW, because if it is OF the craft (a book, a story, a script, a comic book) or it is ABOUT the craft (this post) then it has to go down your neuron-chute for digestion.

The good thing is, if you're worth your salt as a writer, if you HAVE what it takes or if you WILL HAVE what it takes, that digestion process is pretty effective. It WILL keep what you need to nourish your writing self and it WILL shit out the tripe that is bullshit, or lies, or distraction.

And in the end, you get better. And better, and better, and better. And then one day you FEEL IT. And you know that you're gonna make it, that you're gonna do this, for money, for the rest of your days.

I'm waiting for that, or, rather, I'm stretching towards it.

I wish me luck. I hope you do to.
post #39 of 40
While I agree with Ellison's sentiment, the 10 min rule means no one's a writer, not even him. ;}

Was it him or someone else that said: "Writing is easy. You just stare at the paper until your forehead bleeds."?
post #40 of 40
Thread Starter 
I dunno, but that 10 minute thing, that's a little trick we call "PARAPHRASING".

So, take that as you will.
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