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Why I Love The Phantom Menace

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Even though this is a link, it has to do with Star Wars so I've decided to post it here. Anyways, it certainly is an interesting read and a great "fuck you" to all the people who dismiss Episode I as a plotless toy commercial created by a man who has no skills as a storyteller and/or a complete disappointment. Anyways, here's the link:
http://www.lardbiscuit.com/lard/ilovetpm.html

post #2 of 13
Agree to it or not, this brings some BALANCE to the usual discussions. I'm not saying that it is of merit but if you have to judge, see both colors; the black and the white.

Nice find, Darth.

post #3 of 13
I loved The Phantom Menace - and mostly for the main reasons in the article. It was good fun. I felt like I was ten years old again - the first time I saw the original.
post #4 of 13
Speaking of duality-

-I loved the site as I absolutely love The Phantom Menace

-I hated the site as I absolutely love Return Of The Jedi

I feel so conflicted, if I recommend the site to a hardcore fan, it may very well shut them up about TPM but it will also give them further reasons to bash ROTJ.

-sigh-

Sometimes I hate not being mainstream

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"You're not friends. You'll never be friends. You'll be in love till it kills you both. You'll fight, and you'll shag, and you'll hate each other until it makes you quiver, but you'll never be friends. Love isn't brains, children, it's blood -- blood screaming inside you to work its will. I may be love's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it." -Spike
post #5 of 13
Return of the Jedi is over hated. It has some of the finest moments in the entire trilogy.
post #6 of 13
-sniff-

Oh it's nothing, just something in my eye.


Poxy, Steve, yousa guys bombad.
post #7 of 13
Thread Starter 
Actually it wasn't I who wrote this but I do agree with the majority of his points. And I do think he's a bit too hard on Return of the Jedi. However, I think it's relevant to bring in to question how some fans are so hard on Episode I and utterly unforgiving of even its smallest flaws but yet seem to look the other other way regarding some of Return's more obvious flaws.

And to add some to one of Episode I's general criticisms that the writer did not touch upon is regarding Anakin's fear. So many people have brought into question how Yoda says things like "I sense much fear in you" but point out Anakin as a character is largely protrayed as fearless throughout the film. But as with the case of many supposed flaws in Phantom Menace, people just simply were not paying attention. I believe the scene goes something like one of the council members (Q-tip head I believe) saying something like "your thoughts dwell on your mother" and Yoda chimes in "fear for her safety do you?" and Anakin snaps back, "what does that have to do with anything" and Yoda goes into his whole "fear" speech. In summation, Anakin is not burdened by general fear as in fear of being harmed or killed as much as he's burdened by fear of his mother's fate, and it's pretty safe to guess this will be further developed in Episodes II and III. Just because you can be relatively brave in tense situations of conflict doesn't mean you can't be fearful of the fates of those closest to you.

And lastly, if you think this guy was too hard on Return of the Jedi, you're gonna love this:
http://filmthreat.com/Features.asp?F...One.inc&Id=172

post #8 of 13
41. Paradoxical Lessons in the Force
Yoda says the only way Luke can become a Jedi is to face Vader. Minutes later, he says it's unfortunate that Luke rushes to face Vader. This in addition to Yoda's assertion in Empire that if Luke faces Vader, he'll become an agent of evil. So he needs to face Vader to become a Jedi, but he can't face Vader or else he'll become a slave to the Dark Side. This is a paradox on par with the one Kirk used to confuse and blow up Nomad.


Credibility of this article just dropped several notches here. Now, you know this was written just to inflame.

Yoda warned Luke that he shouldn't face Vader UNPREPARED lest this makes him susceptible to the Dark Side. A viable test of gaining knighthood are only for those fully trained in the Jedi arts. These are the rightful candidates to meet the force of Vader. Yoda-Boy just wanted to Luke to engage Vader at the right time with the right tools.

post #9 of 13
OK gang, we're gonna go over this one more time.

Yoda and Obi Wan are the true villians of the saga and not the Empire. Now before any of you new kids jump on my back, allow me to explain.

See Yoda and Obi Wan never wanted Anakin trained. It was Qui-Gon who sensed that he was the Jedi of the prophecy and as such could bring balance to the force. Yoda on the other hand also sensed this but feared that balancing the force wasn't exactly a good thing.

Cause it was the Jedi who had become corrupt with power to the point that they held themselves above the common folk. They were elitist and as such lost touch with the light side of the force.

So Qui-Gon dies and Obi-Wan is forced to promise his dying master that he will carry thru with Anakin's training. Yoda doesn't like this but as such goes along with it to keep an eye on Anakin.

Now we're missing some facts here but suffice it to say Obi-Wan the Cosmic Fuck-Up screws up the training and Anakin turns to the dark side. Conventional wisdom follows that one of two things will occur that drives Anakin over the edge.

Scenario 1: The Jedi prevent him from saving his mother and as a result she's killed.

Scenario 2: The Jedi lie to him for some reason about Padme.

Now internet gossip has mentioned both of these events as happening depending on where you get your info. The line I hear is that the Jedi are getting their collective asses kicked and Obi-Wan tells Anakin that Padme has been killed in a vain attempt for him not to go try to rescue her. But as we don't quite know what will happen, I'm not about to speculate beyond this point.

But for whatever reason, Anakin becomes Vader and begins destroying the Jedi. Yoda and Obi-Wan (who maybe a clone) escape with Anakin's children who they separate to keep them "safe."

Obi-Wan stays on Tatooine to monitor Luke's development. Luke grows up and when he becomes of age, Obi-Wan twists the truth around telling him that Vader killed his father. Also notice how Obi-Wan isn't too upset when Luke's Aunt and Uncle - who may or may not be his brother - are killed.

But Obi-Wan f**ks up as usual and gets into a duel with Vader that he can't win. Seeing Luke, Obi-Wan smirks and lets Vader cut him down in front of Luke cementing the fact that Vader is evil. Why does he do this?

Cause Yoda and Obi-Wan's plan all along was to have Anakin's son erase their mistake and kill Anakin.

So Luke goes to see Yoda who warns him not to face Vader as he is not ready and that if he honors his friends he should let them die. Now excuse me, but doesn't Yoda know that Leia is his sister? So what he basically is doing is sacrificing Leia in an attempt to continue to twist Luke's mind to the point that he won't "buy into" any of Vader's "lies."

Cause in their minds, what they tell him is true. From a certain point of view.

Luke, strong as his father was, rebuffs Yoda and Obi-Wan's warning and goes to help his friends - which let's face it is the heroic and honorable thing to do. Then not five minutes after they were willing to sacrifice her life, they say basically 'Oh well, guess we could always get Leia.'

So Luke faces Vader and learns the truth. Later on he goes back to Yoda and Obi-Wan who tell him that 'Oh, by the way Luke. To become a Jedi you need to face Vader.'

Luke: But I can't kill my own father!

Obi-Wan: Then the Empire has already won.

So for the record, Obi-Wan basically says that if Luke wants to become a true Jedi that he needs to kill Darth Vader.

And I though Jedi's weren't supposed to act in anger and that revenge wasn't a thing a Jedi knows?

Well in the greatest justice I've ever seen in a movie, Anakin does exactly what Qui-Gon had forseen.

1. Anakin decimated the Jedi order which was corrupt and far too large in number.

2. Vader killed The Emperor who had also become corrupt and far too powerful.

Luke's destiny was to redeem his father, pure and simple. And it wasn't until Vader pushed him to the dark side that Anakin Skywalker was reborn.

And afterwards Luke was a Jedi like his father before him.

As far as Palpy goes, all he wanted was absolute power. And actually if you think about it, things actually worked better when once the Empire took over.

The only people we ever saw the Stormtroopers getting medieval on were the rebels who were basically terrorists.

Course this could have just been a huge oversite on Lucas' part...
post #10 of 13
Django, your posts and the entire Star Wars discussion they were a part of, are the reason I found and became a member of CHUD.
It's a honour to be part of a Star Wars thread with yourself and General Zod.

Overdramatic?

Me?

Whatever do you mean?

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Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
~I came, I saw, I castrated the bastards~
post #11 of 13
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Django:
And actually if you think about it, things actually worked better when once the Empire took over.

Unless you lived on Alderaan of course...
post #12 of 13
Axiom, thank you.

Flint, what Grand Moff Tarkin did was not approved of The Emperor according to most sources. However if it was, then destroying Alderaan is a kin to us bombing Iraq.

We're striking at the terrorists' home turf.

Poxy, according to Obi-Wan and Yoda's plan Luke did indeed have to kill Vader. They didn't want him to face him in "Empire" as he wasn't prepared enough in their eyes to toss off Vader's cold hard truth. In "Jedi" Luke never says that he can't face Vader, he says that he can't kill him.

And Obi-Wan hesitates then says that the Emperor has already won. If he never intended Luke to kill his own father, he wouldn't have hesitated.

You must open your eyes up to a much larger world...
post #13 of 13
I suscribe to the notion that originally 'The other' wasn't Leia but someone else due to the fact when these words were uttered, Leia was in danger of losing her life as well. Nobody could have known the outcome of that.

Since both of them were out of the equation at that time, who is left? Who really was originally intended to be 'The Other'?
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