Dubya? Gore? Nader? Buchanan? Browne? That disabled retired truck driver? - Page 2

Bung (I love referring to you as "Bung") I'll have to defer that question to another chuddite. I'm about to vent in a rather unintelligible fashion that will piss off some people here but I need to do it so here it goes -

Fuck the electoral college. Everyone knows its an antiquated system that nobody's bothered to change in 204 years. Its fucking bullshit.

Fuck you if you voted for Nader. You fucking idiots knew it would be a tight race but instead you went for a man with a huge ego who probably knew that the right thing to do was to endorse Gore but couldn't find the humility to do it. He didn't even get 5% of the vote, you fucking morons!

Fuck you harder if you voted for Bush. The man is fucking retarded. He's not bright. He's going to take naps while his dad and Dick Cheney will run the country which is comforting compared to Bush, Jr. running. The guy is obviously an idiot and if you voted for him I have absolutely no fucking respect for you.

Say goodbye to any enviromental progress, any civil rights legislation, and the hope that our President will be smart and well qualified to do his job.

I am so fucking pissed.

Just let the Northeast and California vote from now on you assholes. We're obviously better equiped to deal with the responsibility of our civic duty.

Fuck the South. Fuck the Midwest. You stupid pieces of shit.

Ok, that's it. Keep in mind I am NOT directing this to anyone in chudland, but i need to vent cause i'm raw as hell. I'm disgusted with this country and at the same time proud that labor and minority turn out made this race as close as it is.

If you can't see that the Democratic platform is the right direction for this country, then maybe this country deserves what it will get:

Our first mentally handicapped President. I thought Joe Leiberman was breaking new ground. Fuck.

Now that I've calmed down, I wish Nader had gotten 5% of the vote too. The fact that he didn't makes Gore losing that much more painful.

Wow... the Canadian political system seems to be more fucked than ours. I'm sure there's a reform movement of some kind, right?

Que Sera Sera What ever will be will be

As to whether or not your vote counts and the electorial college system is any good.

If you voted for Bush, but you live in California, your vote meant nothing. If you voted for Gore and you live in Georgia, your vote meant nothing. No person who voted in a state where their canidate lost, had their vote mean anything. Witness the fact that George W. will probably be your next President, yet more Americans voted for Gore than Bush. I am not saying Bush shouldn't be the President. Those were the rules in the election and the canidates knew that. Bush won more states, but Gore won more overall votes. In other words more Americans wanted Gore than Bush, but they will get Bush. Sorry, the system is broken and its broken and has been allowed to remain broken for too long. Imagine a situation where the networks can't "Project" a winner, 30 seconds after the polls close in a state, like they did all night long last night and they were wrong. Wrong, because they failed to tell people they were not relying on the vote, but rather on polls.

If we do away with the electorial college, we can vote, go to bed, get up and find out who the American people decided they wanted to be their President. If the electorial system is so great, why don't we apply the same thing to our Senate races and Congressional districts and Mayors and whatever? Because it is a very bad system.

This may be the only time in your lives that there is a real chance to eliminate the electorial college. Since the man that most American's voted for, will not be the President, most Americans will be unhappy with the system and this is the time to fix it. I encourage you to talk to people and join in the effort get rid of this ancient monster. Besides if its something Americans of all political persuations want, they can get rid of it, working together and wouldn't that be comething very rare and nice indeed. Those in power, real power, will hate this whole idea. I can hear them now, "Just imagine the damned seething, teeming, dirty stupid masses, thinking they have some voice in all this."

This is our chance to say it loud and clear,to those who really have control. "FUCK YOU!"

P.S. Do you get the feeling that lomotta is realy pissed off? Whew! Dude! lamota, channel that pissed ofeed=ness into geting rid of the reason your man lost. Its the electorial college, you should be pissed of about. Channel it man, channel that hatred.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 11-08-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 11-08-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 11-08-2000).]

well said.

As a transplanted Northerner in the South:
I bet I can find just as many stereotypical total idiots hanging around Boston as you can hanging around Austin.
"Just let the Northeast and California vote from now on you assholes. We're obviously better equiped to deal with the responsibility of our civic duty."

No, you have more civic LEADERS that do. NEVER confuse the american political elite with the brainpans of the people who have to live under the idgits.
Brains do not equal political power. Responsibility seldom does. Some places have managed to clean up their pool more than others. Don't piss in the other pools because the grime is better entrenched and needs more elbow grease.
Now, go write that 50 times on the blackboard.

Will, thanks for the tip. Probably shouldn't have written everything I did in a very angry and tired state and would retract most of it in a rational discussion. We'll see how this turns out. I will accept whoever wins the electoral college - those are indeed the current rules of the game and both candidates knew it.

I doubt that the electoral college system will be overturned anytime soon because doing so would invalidate the soon to be revealed result of this election. But hope springs eternal.

And to any one in the south or midwest, and anyone who voted for Bush or Nader, my apologies if i offended.

Will, you're right - I'm just angry because it looks like Gore's going to lose. I'll get over it. Peace.

lamotta: Don't give it a second thought. Sometimes I think only people who feel pastionately, about something. will ever get anything done in our world. Those that are always bored or worse, will rarely accomplich much. First you have to CARE, then you can do. I don't disagree with your fire, I just want to point ou that if you direct that passion towards a goal, it can be a very good thing.

You are correct. Des Moines is a French philosopher. He's the one that said "To do is to be".



[This message has been edited by grendel (edited 11-09-2000).]

" I'd rather have people in business and technology fields, people who create things with their minds and their pens, having the most influence on this country, not a bunch of farmers and moonshiners and people who's families have lived in the same one-horse town for 200 years. "

You need to get out more. I'm not being sarcastic (and I'm not calling you an idiot. I seldom do that on these boards), you really do need to open your eyes with a tad more experience (or at least research) before stating things like that.
Not because I disagree with your sentiment, but because you're slamming the TECHNOLOGICAL centers in the South..and there are a shitload of them...you say are so superior in NY. I'd be willing to bet that if your took a cenus, it'd be a close race. Computers boomed in Silicon Valley, but guess what...the HQ of a majority of IT companies aren't there. They go where the land is cheaper, because it makes better business sense. A programmer or architect in Austin or Houston or Savannah or Atlanta is going to make slightly less than those in NYC or LA or San Fran...but since the cost of living is lower, they're in effect making more. It's more attractive (although not the only reason).
And say you live in NYC. You love it. But you get a job offer that's too attractive to pass up and you move to a southern state. Oops, can't vote anymore.
As for farming, welcome to the USA. I'd like to point you to the Mainers. The upstate New York farmers. The farmers in California whose grandfathers farmed. The Pensylvania Dutch. The term "Moonshine" was popularized by smugglers in the north, not south.

My point is this whole North & South superiority idealistic crap is black & white and severely outdated and blatantly predjudiced. It's akin to me saying a man's opinion doesn't count because he's black. Get over it. There are idiots everywhere you go, and brainiacs, too. I know several people who graduated college at age 19 who came from a one-horse farm town.
If I remember correctly, some came from the south, some came from the north.




[This message has been edited by Coyote (edited 11-09-2000).]

Malinari, thanks for your thoughts. I do apologize for my bashing. Although yesterday I was angry, disgusted, and disillusioned, I find myself in relatively good spirits today. I love the fact that there are protests in Florida right now. I've had more intelligent conversations (in the real world) with people who both agree and disagree with my politically than I have since college.

If this historic situation encourages open honest and serious political dialogue - here on Chud, and in our lives, than maybe this isn't entirely for naught. Americans have been complacent politically since the 1960's - its time we take stock in who we are, what we believe in, and talk about it.

Its important.

19,000 votes thrown away for "double voting" in a county that is predominantly comprised of elderly retired Jewish folk. I doubt very much Buchanan was their choice considering he's denied the holocaust ever happened.

I find the above sad but encouraging that people are not letting this stand. I call for a new vote in that county, because 19,000 votes were tossed due to a misleading ballad, and Bush is only up by around 370.

If Bush truly believes in the "will of the people," he should publicly endorse a new vote in that county. But he won't, because he knows he'll lose.

Why am I enjoying this, all of a sudden?

[This message has been edited by lamotta (edited 11-09-2000).]

Here in Colorado we passed marajuana, but said no on Education Grants.

Here in Colorado we passed a gun show issue on plain and simple emotion.

Here in Colorado, we have the worst written amendments and referndums.

But, hey! Florida has more problems than we do! Our machines are nice and electronic so HA!

toodles


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"Hold onta' ya' butts!'

[This message has been edited by Seahawk (edited 11-10-2000).]

To Innocent X: Buddy, you're an idiot. I registered just to tell you that.

"Places like that and New York should have more pull than Montana ...I'd rather have people in business and technology fields, people who create things with their minds and their pens, having the most influence on this country, not a bunch of farmers and moonshiners and people who's families have lived in the same one-horse town for 200 years. "

First off, I'm from Montana. I'm absolutely certain that I'm more intelligent than you. Montana is an area of major growth in technology fields (particularly Bozeman and Billings), and Montana State University is an exceptional school for engineering and the sciences. Montana was the first state to elect a woman to congress, Jeannette Rankin.

Second, Montanans have MORE influence than people in most other states. We have a population somewhere between 700 and 800 thousand. California has a population of 33 million. We have 3 electoral votes. California has 54. Do the math. Sorry you're probably not capable: Montana has a population 2% the size of California's, yet we have nearly 6% of their number of electoral votes. My vote has 3 times the sway of any Californian's vote, or any New Yorker's.

SCIENTOLOGIST!

See, we should have all voted for Christopher Lambert...

Adverb, keep posting!

Innocent, give it up man.
The last few posts you've made are making you look extremely ignorant.

fuck the normal political parties.im voting for the Socialist Party of America and the Socialist Workers party.you saw how popular socialism was in russia.i think its the perfect government for the USA.and how the fuck did you get 395 posts raoul,or alex or whatever u wanna be called.then again,i havent been on here for like 2 months now.i suck

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"If you can take my bag from my kung-fu grip, you can have it, otherwise, step off, bitch."

Having taveled a bit, I can tell you that when I return to the good ol USA, every time I feel like getting down and kissing the ground. (Sorry, other country dudes) I like England a tremendous amount. Camada is beautiful. Australia is almost as nice, but more fum. There are great places, but man let me tell you there is no place like the good ol' screwed up, knock down drag out USA. We have it sooooo good here, you can't imagine. The chance to take nothing and turn it into a fortune, Comeon, where else? When a bum, high school drop out like me can earn a shit pot full of money based on balls alone (I got no brains really) then things are possible here that are not anywhere else. We can bitch about our government and even change it, if enough of us want to. We don't want war, although somebody sure does and they make us wage it on other people and that sucks, but we can change it. How many countries can you think of where you couldn't change shit? Yeah! Keep thinking, there's a lot more. This country isn't perfect by a long shot, but there's more of a chance to make it nearly so, here, than anywhere else on this planet. We have the system. Sure some people here are stupid and unaware, like they're NOT in France and Spain and Russia.

Comeon, if we get stuck with either Gore or Bush and they screw it up too badly, they're gone before they know it. Witness George Sr. Witness Jimmy Carter, witness Gerald Ford. I don't care that much who wins. If I could trade and give the Presidency to the one I don't want to have it and simply know that a few Americans woke up and realized that whoever is the Prez. works for us and not the other way around and started calling him on it, I'd take that trade any old day. The 800 or so chewers right here could be an incredible influence on this country and its policies, if they were simply unified and if they realized that the other chewers weren't the enemy. Its those that keep us all fighting we need to see clearly. Those who continually keep it in our faces, Is OJ guilty or not? Did Bush win or did he steal it? Are unions bad or good? More taxes for the rich or less? Feed the homeless or let em suffer? People! Wake up. Its midnight and your coach is now a pumpkin. If you want to get home you will have to walk there. Or you can sit here and argue with the mice over who is responsible and you'll never get home again. Sorry, I was ranting, wasn't I?


[This message has been edited by Will (edited 11-10-2000).]

A'right. STOP. Collaborate and listen
Ice is back with a brand new invention
Somethin that grabs a hold of me tightly...

...Oh, you meant DJ Dylan...Sorry...

...and the "founding fathers" weren't exactly young & spry...well, maybe spry, in Jefferson's case.

Briefly considered voting for Nader - for about two seconds. The fact that he didn't endorse Gore in the waning days of the election shows that he doesn't give a shit about Bush, Jr. drilling in Alaska and re-introducing Reaganomics to this country.

Too bad his sheep couldn't come to this realization until now, when its too late. BAAAAAH

Man you people are overly worried about Bush. He has stated he will be a uniter, not a divider. He will be moderate and not have an arrogant war policy.He will probably be a one-termer and be out in 4 years anyway. Could he really be declared winner in a questionable election again?

PS, 'The Grinch' will be the best movie ever.

Sorry, just having fun with the ancient threads.

Jesus, that posting time error is really getting out of whack now.

wow, rereading that is kind of scary, knowing what we know now, especially about all the election fraud that went on, both in 2000 and 2004, and how george has run the country.

Wow, this thread is a gem.

I'm seriously mystified as to how there's not total unmitigated rage at what these criminals have done and continue to do, from the stolen elections onward. And I include the enabler democrats in that as well. Maybe it's like that British guy says in Sicko, something about how in France the government is afraid of the people, whereas in America the people are afraid of the government, and the way they're kept that way is through fear and debt. Pretty succinct ya ask me.

I don't think the people are scared of the government. I think it just what the people expect from the government. It like the old song says the new boss is the same as the old boss. I personally think that the whole system is rotten, and a lot of people think that way. Really what is the big difference between the Dems and the Reps?

Simple: One party is corrupt(Dems), while the other is both corrupt and delusional(Reps). Great fucking democracy we have huh?

I don't think it's so much that Americans are afraid of the government so much as we just don't give a shit.

When the wiretapping story broke, how many times did we hear "It won't effect me. I don't have anything to hide." It didn't matter that civil rights had been shit on, because it doesn't affect them. 99% of people aren't going to say anything overtly incriminating over the phone so they don't give a shit that they've just lost another right to privacy.

Same thing with habeus corpus being suspended. They overwhelming majority of people in this country will never face trial, so why should they care that due process has been fucked?

It's total apathy, and in many ways that's much more dangerous that fear. With fear, people eventually get tired of being scared and stand up and do something about it. With apathy, nothing happens. They can keep us placated and we don't care, and as of right now our desires and wants are stupidly simplistic. As long as we can keep hearing about Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan and stuffing our faces full of transfat in our bland suburban homes, why should we care that the foundations of this country are eroding at an alarming rate?

It's sickening, but it's the way things are. We've been lured into a sense of complacency so deep that I dare say nothing short of a total invasion or collapse of government will get us out of it.

I'm not truly scared of the government, it's just your total fucking umitigated rage going nowhere because too many other people have their heads up their asses gets fucking frustrating. Then boring. I am finding better ways to spend my time, and merely telling those conservos who gripe that I have the government they deserve.