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Carl Cunningham's A Big Sneaky Traitor Pants!! - Page 2

post #51 of 127
Great great job I love this Jedi Councils I'd love to reply to them there but we all know that no one reads the talkbacks on AICN they should get rid of them and save bandwith so it won't take so long for people to see/read the articles.

Moriarty you should write for CHUD as well.
post #52 of 127
Yeah I just went through and read all of these council discussions and man these are wonderful to read. Really great stuff here.
post #53 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Z-Man
Man, a ton of stuff to chew on here, especially for those of us who aren't following the film otherwise. Carl, do we know for sure that the "purge" is NOT in ep3? If so, that's the most disapointing news I've heard yet regarding these films.
The Jedi purge can only happen after Vader is born. And since he is in the movie for a very short amount of time, it would make no sense to see it.

The Jedi purging is basically what Vader does in between III and ANH.

Although we will get a small taste of if I predict in the wacking of Sam Jackson and the rest of the Jedi council. Also the attempts on Yoda and Obi Wan's lives.
post #54 of 127
If what Moriarty said about Natalie Portman is true, what a bitch. If that was true, Lucas should've just hired Keira Knightley. Then of course, if what he said happened on TPM with Portman's dad pitching a fit, he should have tossed him out on his pants.

We also found out who may have been co-writing the screenplay with Lucas. Assuming you guys have any idea what you're talking about.
post #55 of 127
It was an interesting read. I have to wonder how much fun they are having though when they say they want to enjoy the rundown to the last film. Only a few of them seem to enjoy SW anymore and find that sad. ANd yet they're all still there discussing it so it must still hold something for them. I someties wish they'd concentrate on the possibilities of how it could be great rather than the negative.

It's like anything posted here now on the front page. It has the word yawn atached to it. Well, that makes me yawn. I agree that the prequels are a long way below the originals but the general disenfranchisement itself is more boring. We've had five years now to get over the fact that the prequels aren't as good and you still have people ripping on them as if it's original. The bad feeling( and the good) that goes towards these films does its best to suck any of the fun out of it. I love SW. DO I wish the prequels were different? Yes. I think he wasted a film with TPM. Do I think it's a bad film? No. AOTC I think is a good film. Yes there are flaws(bad dialogue, Natalie Portman- at least now we know why she's out acted by the gonk droid). But I'm still looking forward to episode 3 immensely. Half the people writing online at the moment seem very much to be of the childhood raped brigade and are acting as if they'd rather be crucified than watch episode 3. The poor martyrs. It's just as boring as the people who claim it's going to be the best film ever, when we have know idea what it's going to be like. The funny thing is, that all the gripers gave both films pretty good reviews at first.

At this stage, episode 3 could go either way, but I'd rather look at it positively, as opposed to dreading it. To me, it seems as if everything we thought we'd get spread across the three prequels are all going to be in this last film. The clone wars, gigantic space battle, the twins, the purge, the duel and the birth of Vader. There is so much potentail there. Sure, Lucas could screw it up, but just the thought of the duel or seeing the clones turn against and slaughter the Jedi is exciting to me. If the reports are correct, who doesn't want to see Anakin and the clones storm the Jedi temple? So far, everything looks promising that we've seen. The pics of Anakin and Obi-Wan, the duel footage seems intense and even the droid general looks cool. With TPM, we had Jar Jar to worry about(we were right) and with AOTC we had the love story to worry about( again we were right). I don't see what the big area of concern is for this film. We finally get to good v evil again. The stakes are raised, the good guys take a pasting, Natalie Portman's hardly in it if AICN are right and we also get Vader back. There's a lot to be excited about if you ask me.

As for the DVD's, how can that be yawn inducing? I hate some of the SE additions. They are proof of Lucas's decline. How anybody can think that Greedo shooting first is not the lamest thing in film history is beyond me. But at least we're getting the films. I'll avert my eyes for the offending parts. And I signed the pettion at originaltrilogy.com. I don't see why he can't offer the original versions. It would have been great fan marketing to get people back on side before episode 3. But it's still exciting to have the films on DVD. There's no way there won't be a complete set in 2007. But to say the Indy box set was gyping us and that this release is worse than a poke in the eye is pathetic. Spoilt child stuff. Hell, we don't even know the specifics of the extras.

I guess my rant is ending and it's a real muddle. On the one hand I totally understand why people are so negative. It seems almost like the one person who doesn't understand what people want from SW is the person who created it and he's not a big enough man to let go of it.

But on the other, I think the fans are massively to blame for the bitterness and cynicism around SW films now. Most of us are adults whining like children.


Back on topic, if Tom Stoppard is onboard that can only be a good thing. Carl said he felt the script and story was stronger than the last three efforts and this could explain it. Sorry about the confused rant, just wanted to get it off my chest. I'm fed of reading the negativity towards SW on the front page every time it's mentioned. Maybe I'm just pissed off with Lucas for leting it get to this. If Nick, Devin and others are that jaded I guess I can see why. Having been very excited about Matrix revolutions I absolutely hated it to the extent that it diminished the first two films. I'm gonna try and stay positive though.
post #56 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Z-Man
Man, a ton of stuff to chew on here, especially for those of us who aren't following the film otherwise. Carl, do we know for sure that the "purge" is NOT in ep3? If so, that's the most disapointing news I've heard yet regarding these films.
The Purge in its entirety will not occur in EP3, no. There is simply not enough time (another example of how Lucas screwed up in the design of the films by starting TPM with Anakin as a little brat).

However, the Purge WILL be represented in several scenes via the killing of many established Jedi characters. So, it kind of is and kind of isn't in the film.

Basically, Jedi will get wiped out left and right... but the majority of the Purge will happen in the timeline between EP3 and ANH, where Vader and Stormtroopers basically go around and hunt down the few remaining Jedi hiding throughout the galaxy.
post #57 of 127
jasperjones, you have to understand... there is now a pack mentality online when it comes to discussing STAR WARS. Everyone parrots each other and things get blown WAY out of proportion.

For instance... the upcoming DVD set. Sure, I want the Classic Editions as much as anyone, but I stop short of getting into the loopy trap of convincing myself that the SEs are total garbage. That's just silly. I much prefer the original versions... but people now act as if the SEs are complete remakes. Whatever. Also, the 4 disc set will be considerably better than the INDY set... though still not nearly as feature-packed as we all would like.

It's now easier to blast SW, LFL, etc than it is to beat a paraplegic in a 40 yard dash. It just sucks a ton of ASS that I find myself having to be the voice of reason in these discussions. And that's not because I'm a fucking "apologist" (again, I've blasted Lucas decisions as much as anyone in the past) but because I am one of the few around here who hasn't gone completely overboard when it comes to disappointments with these films.

Then again, I predicted ALL of this shit over 3 years ago when I was warning that any SW OT DVD release before the end of the prequels would leave fans begging for them wanting (and yet these would be the first to bitch and moan because of it and the inevitable double-dip). All coming home to roost, as expected. And THAT is the "yawn".
post #58 of 127
Back on topic...

In this edition, I said "Fuck the fans" and took direct shots at The Matrix sequels. So where is my Talkback hate??

Man, they all pick on Beaks for the smallest of things and I shit on their plate and... nothin'!
post #59 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Carl Cunningham
Back on topic...

In this edition, I said "Fuck the fans" and took direct shots at The Matrix sequels. So where is my Talkback hate??
Umm, I pretty much agreed with much of what you said. As to anything else, well you are entitled to your opinion. No reason to waste bandwidth trying to convince you or anyone else firmly set in their opinions otherwise.

I for one am tired of seeing the same statments battered back and forth. That is a *yawn* for me. Let's discuss what is happening now, bring on the discussion about what is happening with Episode III.
post #60 of 127
Very true, Joe. Sorry for adding to the yawn, just couldn't help myself. So what's new to discuss from that session?

Tom Stoppard has got to be the main reason to be excited. Both TPM and AOTC are films full of good ideas that really lack polish or full development. They whiff of early drafts. If Stoppard has had a pass then no doubt the overall quality will have improved I would imagine, although I'll stop short of thinking we'll have dialogue that will please everyone. The frustrating thing is that it wouldn't have taken much to improve the scripts of the first two films either. AOTC, especially would have been up a notch if you had gone through it and struck out every honorific and my very young apprentice. If Stoppard has boosted this weakness of the prequels then it's a step in the right direction.

I think that the drama and conflict that has perhaps been missing from the first two should be present at last as finally the good guys will actually know who the bad guys are and will try to do something about it. One of the reasons it's difficult to root for the characters in the prequels is that we don't really have anybody to root against. Imagine the OT where the heroes had no idea who Vader and the Empire were. They had a lot of meetings where they mused about what was going on and decided that the best course of action would be to ponder it for a bit longer. That's not going to be an option for our heroes any longer thank God.

Let's get back to stirring conflict between good and evil with a lot at stake, a script that doesn't scream one more draft please and hopefully the rest will take care of itself, mainly thanks to John William's music and lightsabres.
post #61 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Carl Cunningham
However, the Purge WILL be represented in several scenes via the killing of many established Jedi characters. So, it kind of is and kind of isn't in the film.

Basically, Jedi will get wiped out left and right... but the majority of the Purge will happen in the timeline between EP3 and ANH, where Vader and Stormtroopers basically go around and hunt down the few remaining Jedi hiding throughout the galaxy.
Well, OK. That's pretty much good enough for me.
post #62 of 127
I think what some people are missing...and what Carl misses sometimes, too...I mean, look, we're never gonna be able to stop talking about these films. And the truth is, the prequels are just at that edge where they're not bad enough to completely dismiss, not good enough to completely accept. This is a property that fans have a RELATIONSHIP with. And it's something we feel the need to work out, and something we'll never really work out. I think the tone of the Council is pretty much the tone of fandom. We want to be excited about Ep III, but at the same time we know we can't get our hopes up too much. I think it's frustrating, because...well, for me anyway, I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but when I watch AotC, it's SO CLOSE. You can see the great movie just beyond what's on the screen, and it misses, just barely misses, and it would almost be easier if it had just been a complete disaster, and you could just move on, but you can't.

It does say alot about the state of fandom when the most fun everyone had, and the most fun I as a reader had, was when the council went into pure fantasy mode talking about Ep VII-IX. And pretty much nailed the scenario I, and I guess most fans, would like to see: Lucas drafting a loose outline, then turning it over to three young, talented pairs of writers and directors who have the love, and it's strange to know that he won't do that. If he's as tired of Star Wars as he seems to be, why wouldn't he just hand it over? But shit, the guy can't even work with Speilberg, so clearly this scenario can never happen.
post #63 of 127
Couldn't agree more Z. It is like a relationship, and yet you know it's just a film and who gives a shit, but people do, and it's hard to let go. The jedi council chts are very like the chats me and my mate have about SW nowadays. What could have been, what may still be all mixed with great hope, excitement, and then cynicism and the knowledge that if Lucas can actually think that Jar Jar or Greedo shooting first are good things then anything is possible. I think you're right in that he comes very close to getting it spot on but he can't quite get it right. He comes up with a fantastic villain in Maul but forgets to use him is an obvious example.

I agree with Carl that where he went wrong was starting where he did, maybe not in story terms but in terms of characters. If you started TPM with his original vision of just having Obi-Wan, and you make all the characters the age they were in AOTC you immediately solve half the problems. I love Qui-Gon, but that's because he basically is Obi-Wan that we heard about in the OT. It was originally written in early TPM drafts so that Obi-Wan was reckless and he was the one who discovered Anakin and took it upon himself to train him. Instantly you remove some of the inconsistencies that exist now, and you have a character that the audience likes and roots for who makes it through to the next films. Had they all been AOTC age it would be much easier to set up their great friendship and Anakin's relationship with Padme for the second film. You could introduce Owen and Beru in film one so that you understand why Owen doesn't want Luke going off with Obi-Wan like his father did. It also sets up what a great pilot Anakin was when he blows up the the trade federation cruiser without seeming too cute. Plus, the pod race would be much cooler with him as a young man. By the time AOTC comes up you already have better devlopment between the characters and you don't have to force the issues.

To me, even these simple changes would go along way to ease the story congestion we're facing in episode 3. I still thinnk Lucas has it in terms of coming up with story, but he is at his best as a producer. Imagine his basic outlines with the best directors and writers onboard. I can understand that it's his baby and he wants to direct them, but I certainly can't fathom writing them when he hates writing them and he just isn't a good writer. Maybe that's why Stoppard helped out. I really hope he has as it can only be a goood thing.

I dunno, something tells me this is going to be the best of the prequels by quite a bit. Whether it's enough to convince everybody is another question.
post #64 of 127
For Carl, or anybody else who might know,
(thanks in advance)

Is there a tangible spot where the Clone Troopers crossover and become known as Storm Troopers? Is this going to be represented at all or just assumed? It's been a little while since I've seen Eps IV-VI and I'm trying to remember if/when there's apecific point in the originals where they are referred to as Storm Troopers... This is nothing major, just something I'm curious about.
post #65 of 127
I believe so, but don't hold me to it. So much can change (and probably already has since shooting) and expository dialogue like that could be easily cut.

I do know that some folks were referring to "stormtroopers" during the production. But, for the most part, these are just the latest Clone Troopers.

Basically, we'll see...
post #66 of 127
Good, nay great Council this time around.

The one thing I never see mentioned in these kind of discussions between informed SW commentators about continuation of the franchise is the fact that the Lucas business conglomerate is used to making large chunks of dough every handful of years. Do you guys really think that after EpIII winds down there's going to be a board meeting where they decide whether they're going to shut down 60%, 70%, or 80% of the apparatus since there will no longer be movie money coming in?

I suppose it's possible, considering they went such a long time with no movies before. But to me it seems like a foregone conclusion that there will be more SW movies so that there will be more SW toys, magazines, and Burger King deals. Even a TV show would seem like it'd bring in several orders of magnitude less dough.
post #67 of 127
There will be more Star Wars, but it's not going to be in the form of films. Look for DVDs, toys, TV movies, etc.
post #68 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Carl Cunningham
I believe so, but don't hold me to it. So much can change (and probably already has since shooting) and expository dialogue like that could be easily cut.

I do know that some folks were referring to "stormtroopers" during the production. But, for the most part, these are just the latest Clone Troopers.

Basically, we'll see...
Cool, thanks. I was just picturing it in my mind. Something kinda cheesy like Palpatine in his Sith Garb being sinister and tapping his fingers together saying something like "Yes my storm troopers. Go get them. Yessssss". It was making me giggle a bit just thinking about it, but it probably won't come across the same as text. I'm the guy who can't re-tell a joke for jhis life. always screw it up somehow... My thoughts were kind of funny, but I was being serious at the same time. It's kind of hard to imagine it being effectively portrayed through dialogue, and I can easily see thatif the idea was there it could easily be cast aside. Thanks again!
post #69 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Z-Man
I think what some people are missing...and what Carl misses sometimes, too...I mean, look, we're never gonna be able to stop talking about these films. And the truth is, the prequels are just at that edge where they're not bad enough to completely dismiss, not good enough to completely accept. This is a property that fans have a RELATIONSHIP with. And it's something we feel the need to work out, and something we'll never really work out. I think the tone of the Council is pretty much the tone of fandom. We want to be excited about Ep III, but at the same time we know we can't get our hopes up too much. I think it's frustrating, because...well, for me anyway, I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but when I watch AotC, it's SO CLOSE. You can see the great movie just beyond what's on the screen, and it misses, just barely misses, and it would almost be easier if it had just been a complete disaster, and you could just move on, but you can't.
Excellent points, my friend. I think you summed it up quite well.

To that end, I think it would help if those who are disappointed with the films avoid going on the offensive (and I've been guilty of this myself); but at the same time, folks like Carl need to stop going on the defensive.

Just a thought.
post #70 of 127
There will be more Star Wars, but it's not going to be in the form of films. Look for DVDs, toys, TV movies, etc.

Quote:
It seems almost like the one person who doesn't understand what people want from SW is the person who created it and he's not a big enough man to let go of it.
That's the problem. Nobody wants the same thing from Star Wars. They discussed that. Over the last 25 years, Star Wars has pretty much been in fans hands. Star Wars fans feel a sense of entitlement, as if they should be in control. But rather than go into these films with an open mind, they go in with their own version of the film, and if they don't get it, they don't like it.

Star Wars fans have to really get over this "Mine! Mine! Mine!" mentality. It's not ours. So just go along and try to enjoy the ride. Me, I enjoyed much in TPM and loved 95% of AOTC. Maybe because I didn't expect the greatest films in the history of the world. I knew before filming ever started on these prequels that not only could they not live up to the originals, no matter how good, but Lucas could catch lightning in a bottle twice. So I went in with an open mind, and decided to try and enjoy as much as I could.

As it is, I have no control over what happens with Star Wars. So why be whiny and unhappy. That just makes it worse.
post #71 of 127
ekm, think about it... which comes first, and why would some of us need to become DEfensive? The truth is some of you dudes just need to chill out and LAY OFF. Then things will simmer down quite quickly and easily.

BTW, you are no longer on my "Ignore List" due to your rational remarks yesterday.
post #72 of 127
Great Jedi Council.

Here's an interesting story...

I have a friend of mine who's brother works in special effects. He managed to get a hold of a roll call sheet a few weeks back. I'm not sure what they were shooting that day, but the cast list had Hayden, Ewan...

and Debbie Gibson as Padme.

Now, I'm sure this must have been a joke or something. But then Natalie was on Letterman afterwards wearing a Debbie Gibson T-shirt.

Anyway, I forwarded this to Mori and Carl, who wisely let it drop. I thought it would have been hilarious, though, to see DEBBIE GIBSON IN STAR WARS!!! HELLSHITFUCKASSLUCAS$S!!! all over the Internet.

The call sheet is real, though. It must be some sort of joke.

I'm saying this now because it's been a few weeks and nothing's come of it and I'm confident that it was some bullshit stab of humor at Natalie...

Anyway, great Council. Who do I gotta kill to get in on one of those things? (Other than fly to L.A. ...)
post #73 of 127
While I agree the fans go overboard, it's a little hard to blame them when the films aren't very good. Sure, they have a sense of entitlement that should be avoided... but to say they are hurting the franchise with their expectations is ridiculous. If Lucas even came close to giving us a film as good as ANH or ESB and the fans still reacted this way I could see cause for complaint. But that wouldn't happen. If the movies were good most fans would bend over backwards to praise them regardless of what they may have wanted the stories to reflect. As it stands, Lucas hasn't delivered, and the onus is on him.
post #74 of 127
Carl,
I'd love to know the specifics of this Stoppard deal. Is he just ghosting over Lucas' dialogue (no small thing in of itself)? Or will he be credited, like Leigh Brackett or Kasdan, or even that young Indy writer who helped not at all on AOTC?

I agree that this is the most interesting piece of news out of the production so far. I worry that no matter what Stoppard does, Lucas' bull-headed insistence on maintaining a lowest common denominator status quo (see the vetoing of the Darabont script) will make any improvements seem negligible in the final cut.

(although i actually believe that it was Hales' input that made the AOTC dialogue so thoroughly wretched. On his own, Lucas' dialogue is spartan, boring, utilitarian, as in TPM. But with AOTC I blame Hales for the truly baroque depths of some of the worst lines. "I truly, madly, deeply, terribly, genuinely love you, inside my heart...")
post #75 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Moriarty at AICN
With that scene I think they have to tie together: Shmi’s hesitance to talk about Anakin’s birth and his origin; genetic engineering in the galaxy, whether it be clones or Midichlorians; and they have to cover Sifodyas. Those three things have to be answered because they are giant loose plot threads. This manipulation could have been a larger scale thing than we realized and it could all be the work of Sidious.
I'm a bit puzzled why these are considered giant loose plot threads.

If I were a woman who'd miraculously given birth when there "was no father" I'd be more than a little hesitant to tell folks too.
Anakins origin we know already courtesy of Qui Gon, and we know Qui Gons belief was right because Anakin does indeed restore balance in RotJ.

Why does the final instalment need to waste time on the specifics of genetic engineering???

And regarding Sifodyas, I reckon much to much has been made of this, I don't think it helps that Lucas made the name so similar to Sidious but it's a reasonable inference that Dooku ordered the clones.

These really aren't majorly significant loose ends imo, certainly nothing that would paralyse the continuing story for not being answered.
post #76 of 127
Estel:

Lucas will be getting sole screenwriting credit. Bank on it.

Keep in mind Moriarty prefaced his comments (Portman, Stoppard) with a rumors caveat. For what it's worth I heard Stoppard rumblings 4 months ago on a SW message board (actually started by one of the guys on the Jedi Council---FLMLVR). It could very well be false and regardless we'll never know for sure. EP3 will still sound like a SW film in the dialogue department and Lucas will still be taking full credit this time.

BTW, I don't buy the Knightley/Portman scenario. At all.

Sounds like what young fanboys were saying in the summer when "Pirates Of the Caribbean" was the flavor of the month.

ie: Wouldn't Keira Knightley have been a better Amidala than Portman?

It was kid's talk due to the TPM connection and now people are treating this *rumor* as 100 percent fact.
post #77 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by mecha superior
BTW, I don't buy the Knightley/Portman scenario. At all.

Sounds like what young fanboys were saying in the summer when "Pirates Of the Caribbean" was the flavor of the month.

ie: Wouldn't Keira Knightley have been a better Amidala than Portman?
It's still only rumor (and should continue to be taken as such), but it didn't originate out of the fanboy ether. The source for it was extremely well-placed, which is why I censored it in the transcript.

As for Stoppard, I'll know for 100% sure when I read the script, or hear the dialogue in the finished film. The man's writing style is as instantly identifiable as Beckett's or Pinter's, especially when compared against what's passed for dialogue in the previous two pictures..
post #78 of 127
Hey, Beaks... FWIW, Pablo Hidalgo of Lucasfilm Online held an online chat last night (or so I hear) and supposedly addressed the notion of unrest on the set.

Now, I haven't been able to locate the actual transcript yet (even though I have Hyperspace access as well) but the following was sent to me by someone who claimed to have attended the chat.

If this is true, it might very well add credence to the Portman rumor because Pablo was on the set the ENTIRE time... from weeks before shooting began until after:

Quote:
Question: Were there tense relationships during production of episode 3? I really doubt this is true, just wondering?

Pablo: This sounds like a request to dish some dirt, but I won't do that. I mean, were there tense relationships? Yeah, of course. Without getting into specifics, there were some people who are easier to deal with than others.

That said, the feel of the shoot was very positive throughout -- just moreso when certain folks who shall remain nameless weren't around.

But I'm not here to tattle on the record for two reasons -- one, it's not very professional, and two, Rick tells it so much better.

How's that for tapdance diplomacy?
post #79 of 127
C-Murder and Beaks made that a great read as always.

Although I could do without ever reading something that Sarah S writes again. Yes, yes I could.
post #80 of 127
Carl:

Considering you were on the set and read the script, is it believable Lucas made revisions and cut down Portman's role due to her antics on the set?

Or is it more likely this episode was always about Obi-Wan/Anakin/Palpatine (with Padme relegated to Anakin's achilles heel/mother of the twins) and that's why her role is diminished in comparison to the previous films.

Basically, does this rumor seem even plausible considering the way the script was structured?


BTW, Doesn't Padme have a prominent role in the "origins of the Rebellion" too?
post #81 of 127
The newest Pablo Hyperspace Chat seems to lend some validity to what they said. heh.

-Jason
post #82 of 127



Bad acting?

post #83 of 127
Mecha, hahaha. Good one.


-Jason
post #84 of 127
Portman was photoshopped. Duh.
post #85 of 127
Where's this Pablo chat? Anyone with Hyperspace, can you lead me in the right direction? The most recent chat in the Celebrities section was Mark Hamill's (which was a fun read).
post #86 of 127
Madman, here is the link: http://forums.starwars.com/thread.js...&thread=155326 It's the 13th post.

-Jason
post #87 of 127
Thanks! I found it interesting that, when asked to rate the likelihood of certain actors doing webchats (from 1 to 10, 10 being the best chance) Natalie was ranked by Pablo as -18.

Interesting stuff in that link. I found that comment about the Tusken slaughter particularily interesting ( "If the Raider slaughter bothered you, then prepare for worse."). Little Jedi kids, perhaps?
post #88 of 127
Bah, you just know he'll cut away from the slaughter.
post #89 of 127
Hopefully the darkness of this film comes from it's emotional tone....
post #90 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Blunt
Bah, you just know he'll cut away from the slaughter.
Oh, come now Blunt. You know there aren't even many R Rated films that would show wanton slaughter of innocent children. And since EP3 will be PG-13 at worst, this is one thing we can't blame Lucas for (if the majority of it happens offscreen, ala the Tusken Raider scene in AOTC).

Besides, sometimes these types of scenes can be more powerful based on what you don't actually see. I do know that the scene as originally scripted and storyboarded is pretty good. But we'll have to see how it turns out, of course.
post #91 of 127
I was one of maybe three people who didn't complain that the Tusken Slaughter wasn't a graphic sequence.

Exteme violence + Star Wars = Bad Idea.
post #92 of 127
I agree with you EKM. I liked the way the Tusken slaughter went down myself. I think some spoiler hounds heard it, saw it in their heads, and it was Conan the Barbarian and not Star Wars

But in Episode III Anakin has to become Darth Vader. I saw Vader kill commanders and stuff in Empire, so if he kills a few politicians it fits the continuity for me. I don't think it will be like Resvoir Dogs or anything. Ha.

-Jason
post #93 of 127
Oh I know that Carl, and frankly I can live with not showing slaughter of children. But I was amused by the comment that anyone could be "bothered" by the Tusken slaughter. Well, I was bothered because it's THE defining moment in Anakin's slide into the dark side and it was completely negated by the cut away, but that's another type of bother entirely.
post #94 of 127
Remember: Star Wars is a fairy tale in space. We've gotten almost no blood so far (even the decapitations have been clean), and the violence has been implied more than choreographed. This may cause a few issues for Crispy Anakin (how are they gonna pull off something that disturbing in Star Wars, anyway?), but otherwise, I enjoy the way violence is presented in these films.

It works in LOTR; it doesn't work in Star Wars. This is why I love both.
post #95 of 127
It's not a matter of blood or no blood. Reducing the turning point in Anakin's life to a 30 seconds scene with a cut-away lessens the impact and importance of the scene. The slaughter could have been shown with little to no blood. It was more lenghty, more effective and more relevant in the novelization.
post #96 of 127
I tend to agree. Throw out the Coruscant speeder chase scene and the horrid Geonosis factory sequence and give me more of this stuff.

Thankfully, EP3 looks like it will focus more on "the goods" instead of throwaway action. ...So far
post #97 of 127
What's wrong with leaving some things to your imagination, especailly when dealing with particularly graphic or disturbing subject matter?

When Hitchcock or Spielberg (most notably with Jaws) alllowed you to use your imagination instead of showing every detail, they were called brilliant for it (and their films were often credited with being more disturbing precisely because they didn't show everything), but when Lucas does it, he's wussing out.

Maybe it just doesn't jibe with the modern "in your face" mentality or maybe it's just fanboys always taking the negative side no matter what Lucas does.
post #98 of 127
I've always liked the Coruscant speeder chase.
post #99 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Creosote
What's wrong with leaving some things to your imagination, especailly when dealing with particularly graphic or disturbing subject matter?
For the third time, it's wrong because that's basically writing off the TURNING POINT of the series. And what little we saw of it wasn't graphic enough to warranty not showing all of it. Especially since they didn't do a wipe-out when Jango was decapitated, hence rendering the decision even stupider.
post #100 of 127
given lucas' inability to dramatize much of anything effectively in the prequels, I almost think cutting away was the smartest thing he could have done.

edit-- but, in all seriousness, Lucas was holding back... he didn't want the audience to see Anakin in a balls to the wall violent rage until the third movie... and so his confession to padme was supposed to be the emotional payoff of that sequence. too bad it didn't work.
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