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Bush declares National Sanctity of Human Life Day

post #1 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
WASHINGTON (CNN) --In a move praised by conservatives and criticized by abortion rights activists, President Bush declared January 19 "National Sanctity of Human Life Day."

Tuesday's presidential proclamation was issued in advance of next week's 30th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision, which legalized abortion in the United States. Conservatives have sought for years to overturn that decision.

Bush, who has supported various abortion restrictions, called on all Americans on Sunday to "reaffirm the value of human life and renew our dedication to ensuring that every American has access to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

"Every child is a priority and a blessing, and I believe that all should be welcomed in life and protected by law," Bush's proclamation said.

Abortion rights groups sharply criticized the president.

Susanne Martinez, vice president of public policy for Planned Parenthood, said the timing of the announcement showed that the Bush administration "has made it clear they'd like the law overturned in the U.S."

"This administration for two years has waged a war against women," she said in a telephone interview. "He has tried to elevate the rights of the fetus above the rights of women, and that's a tragedy."

Abortion opponents praised the president's proclamation.

"It's a wonderful statement of what the pro-life movement is really all about," said Darla St. Martin, associate executive director of the National Right to Life organization.

"President Bush's pro-life view is clearly grounded in his respect and concern for all people," she added.

In the proclamation, Bush cited his administration's efforts to create "compassionate alternatives to abortion."

"My administration has championed compassionate alternatives to abortion, such as helping women in crisis through maternity group homes, encouraging adoption, promoting abstinence education, and passing laws requiring parental notification and waiting periods for minors," Bush said.

Bush also touted his Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, which he signed into law in August 2002.

"This important legislation helps protect the most vulnerable members of our society by ensuring that every infant born alive, including one who survives abortion, is considered a person and receives protection under federal law," the proclamation read.

The president urged people to celebrate the day by holding ceremonies at home or at places of worship, and to "rededicate ourselves to compassionate service, and to reaffirm our commitment to respecting the life and dignity of every human being."

The National Abortion Rights Action League/Pro-Choice America released a statement calling Bush's proclamation an effort to roll back abortion rights.

"The president clearly wants the federal government in doctors' offices making personal decisions that should be left to women and their doctors," NARAL said.
post #2 of 85
Let's see...a President who governed a state leading executions and who is virtually spoiling to enter into a war, no matter what the consequences, is declaring a day "Sanctity of Life Day."

Hooboy.....
post #3 of 85
Yea and we have already been over that a million times Micah. We just don't agree. It is the same thing in regards to getting rid of racism in this country. We just don't agree.

I believe that is why many of us are left-leaning and the others right-leaning. We just don't agree about the proper way of understanding the issue.
post #4 of 85
That's a little...circular, there Micah.

Because what's the converse? Well obviously it's that abortion killing is good, executing murderers killing is not.
post #5 of 85
Quote:
CTDeLude:
It is the same thing in regards to getting rid of racism in this country. We just don't agree.
Quote of the day!
post #6 of 85
...and some poor canuck had to quit her job for calling Bush a moron.
post #7 of 85
Quote:
ClearKronos Communications:
That's a little...circular, there Micah.

Because what's the converse? Well obviously it's that abortion killing is good, executing murderers killing is not.
No, not at all.

Killing is bad, but I believe there is a period in the conception of a child where the child is not a HUMAN LIFE, and if the mother wants to keep it from becoming so for whatever reason, she should be allowed to.

Once something has indubitably been established as HUMAN life, than I have a problem with killing it.

And if Bush is such a patron of "faith-based" thinking, he'd feel the same way.
post #8 of 85
Quote:
Z-Man:
Quote:
CTDeLude:
It is the same thing in regards to getting rid of racism in this country. We just don't agree.
Quote of the day!
Sad, innit?
post #9 of 85
I know, I just thought I'd stir a bit. This sauce was beginning to simmer.
post #10 of 85
My thing is "Pro-Choice" is at least honest because if a woman chooses to keep the child and not have an abortion, they respect that. So ANY choice is allowed. It's not a restriction of options, but rather an expansion of options.

Freedom. You know....that thing America is built upon.

"Pro-Life" typically only applies to fetuses. Any human life beyond that gets the comparative short shrift. Very sketchy morality at work there. And personal and convenient morality at that.
post #11 of 85
My position's always been crystal clear...abortion is a freedom and a choice.

But the taxpayer should not foot the bill. Period.
post #12 of 85
Quote:
ClearKronos Communications:
My position's always been crystal clear...abortion is a freedom and a choice.

But the taxpayer should not foot the bill. Period.
Agreed.
post #13 of 85
Not bad from a mouth-foamin' conservative, eh?
post #14 of 85
Quote:
CTDeLude:
I believe that is why many of us are left-leaning and the others right-leaning. We just don't agree about the proper way of understanding the issue.
I disagree with this assumption. I don't think it has all that much to do with left and right. I think it has to do with Ideology. Personally, I feel like most people base their understanding of the whole world on their own ideology and reject as total hogwash anything that threatens that system/pattern of beliefs.

There are too many people in the world who want to enforce their beliefs on everyone. As someone who isn't a Christian I get it all the time. True, the worst of it most of the time is not being able to buy beer on Sunday, but Bush is trying to change that. We should be able to do what we want and everyone else should stick to their own business. Abortion, in my opinion, needs to stay legal because it is a choice. And any metaphysical "God said save the babies" mumbo-jumbo is just that to everyone that doesn't believe in it. It's just as preposterous to me that a fetus is a human as my free will is to many of the religious zealots I have met.
post #15 of 85
Quote:
I don't think it has all that much to do with left and right. I think it has to do with Ideology.
Huh? That IS ideology! The left has ideas, the right have ideas.
post #16 of 85
Quote:
ClearKronos Communications:
Not bad from a mouth-foamin' conservative, eh?
Well, I'm a bleeding heart lefty liberal, so we make quite a pair.

Let's meet someday, shake hands, and then watch Existence end as matter comes in contact with anti-matter.
post #17 of 85
Quote:
CTDeLude:
Yea and we have already been over that a million times Micah. We just don't agree. It is the same thing in regards to getting rid of racism in this country. We just don't agree.

I believe that is why many of us are left-leaning and the others right-leaning. We just don't agree about the proper way of understanding the issue.
Lessee. A man who governed over a state that ended quite a few lives declares the sanctity of human life. Whether you agree with the decision to end those lives or not, how can you not see the irony in this?

And what is it you're supposed to do on Sanctity of Human Life Day anyway? Should soldiers refuse to engage in combat? Should I make a point of not killing anyone? I think I can manage that.

But the burning question is this: what colour will the ribbons be? Which sleeve should I wear my heart on this week? What can I do to help? And for the love of God won't someone please think of the children?

Nonsense like this is why I feel the need to leave the planet, if only for an hour.
post #18 of 85
Quote:
mikah912:
Quote:
ClearKronos Communications:
Not bad from a mouth-foamin' conservative, eh?
Well, I'm a bleeding heart lefty liberal, so we make quite a pair.

Let's meet someday, shake hands, and then watch Existence end as matter comes in contact with anti-matter.
Believe me, it's in The Plan.
post #19 of 85
Quote:
And what is it you're supposed to do on Sanctity of Human Life Day anyway? Should soldiers refuse to engage in combat?
I suppose no abortions that day -just that day- would be in order, eh?
post #20 of 85
Quote:
My thing is "Pro-Choice" is at least honest because if a woman chooses to keep the child and not have an abortion, they respect that.
Wow, that's big of them.
post #21 of 85
Quote:
Refrozen Seabass:
But the burning question is this: what colour will the ribbons be? Which sleeve should I wear my heart on this week? What can I do to help? And for the love of God won't someone please think of the children?

Nonsense like this is why I feel the need to leave the planet, if only for an hour.
Pure genius.

By the way, can someone please explain to me just exactly why human life is so 'precious'?
post #22 of 85
Quote:
mikah912:
Quote:
Z-Man:
Quote:
CTDeLude:
It is the same thing in regards to getting rid of racism in this country. We just don't agree.
Quote of the day!
Sad, innit?
Oh give me a break you know exactly what I am talking about.

Affirmative action vs Color blind analysis.

Also quoting that line alone is very misguiding...shameful folks! Z-Man...et brute~?!
post #23 of 85
Quote:
ClearKronos Communications:
Quote:
I don't think it has all that much to do with left and right. I think it has to do with Ideology.
Huh? That IS ideology! The left has ideas, the right have ideas.
True, but I would always rather people be more fucking specific. Saying you're conservative or liberal doesn't tell anybody shit. Also, I don't have an ideology. I handle every issue on a issue by issue basis. There is no organization that I stand behind where I just agree with whatever clap-trap they say is true.

Left/Right thinking to me means that you basically don't think. When I argue with conservatives they brand me a liberal, when I argue with liberals they brand me a conservative. None of means a damn thing and isn't worth the paper it's printed on if you can't get your head out of your ass long enough make you rown damn decisions and do the same to everyone else. Partisan politics, in my opinion, is what has completely fucked this country's government.
post #24 of 85
Just some good-natured ribbing, CT. Nothing personal.
post #25 of 85
Quote:
mikah912:
Quote:
ClearKronos Communications:
Not bad from a mouth-foamin' conservative, eh?
Well, I'm a bleeding heart lefty liberal, so we make quite a pair.

Let's meet someday, shake hands, and then watch Existence end as matter comes in contact with anti-matter.
ooh, ooh, ooh, could I join and watch???!!!

Please, Please, Please, Please, Please....?
post #26 of 85
Quote:
Also, I don't have an ideology.
No, you don't have an agenda. You obviously have ideology.
post #27 of 85
Quote:
Nelson:
Quote:
mikah912:
Quote:
ClearKronos Communications:
Not bad from a mouth-foamin' conservative, eh?
Well, I'm a bleeding heart lefty liberal, so we make quite a pair.

Let's meet someday, shake hands, and then watch Existence end as matter comes in contact with anti-matter.
ooh, ooh, ooh, could I join and watch???!!!

Please, Please, Please, Please, Please....?
And roll tape...because it always makes good television!
post #28 of 85
Quote:
ClearKronos Communications:
Quote:
Also, I don't have an ideology.
No, you don't have an agenda. You obviously have ideology.
Maybe so, maybe so. But what is it, be specific, cause I want to know.
post #29 of 85
Quote:
ClearKronos Communications:
Quote:
And what is it you're supposed to do on Sanctity of Human Life Day anyway? Should soldiers refuse to engage in combat?
I suppose no abortions that day -just that day- would be in order, eh?
That's not a bad idea at all. Although I expect not many (read: none) abortions are scheduled for Christmas day either.

I like the idea of soldiers throwing down their arms better though. That used to happen on Christmas day as well. In a more modern context, declaring a ceasefire (assuming hostilities) during Ramadan would be pretty cool too. It'd certainly say a lot more about the White House's view of the sanctity of human life a lot more than Sanctity of Human Life Day, wouldn't it?

Wouldn't it?
post #30 of 85
Quote:
mikah912:
Just some good-natured ribbing, CT. Nothing personal.
I gotcha. Just a difference of opinion on how to approach the subject matter.

A lot of different subjects actually.
post #31 of 85
Quote:
Refrozen Seabass:
In a more modern context, declaring a ceasefire (assuming hostilities) during Ramadan would be pretty cool too. It'd certainly say a lot more about the White House's view of the sanctity of human life a lot more than Sanctity of Human Life Day, wouldn't it?

Wouldn't it?
It would, but I've not seen a Muslim nation call a Ramadan cease-fire. If they'd agree (whatever Muslim nation we were at war with), and not renig, it would be a good thing.
post #32 of 85
I'll be sure to walk down the block to watch the whackos on parade in front of Planned Parenthood on that day. Although, it's not on the usual Thursday, I hope that doesn't throw a monkey-wrench into their plans.
post #33 of 85
Quote:
Nick Luskmonster:
Quote:
ClearKronos Communications:
Quote:
Also, I don't have an ideology.
No, you don't have an agenda. You obviously have ideology.
Maybe so, maybe so. But what is it, be specific, cause I want to know.
I don't know. I'd suggest looking up the definitions of ideology and agenda.
post #34 of 85
Yeah, to be clear (because alot of illogical vitriol gets thrown around in this forum), I was just kidding CT. I know what you meant.
post #35 of 85
Quote:
Jacob Singer:


By the way, can someone please explain to me just exactly why human life is so 'precious'?
"Peter" Singer?
post #36 of 85
Hehe.
post #37 of 85
Quote:
CTDeLude:
It is the same thing in regards to getting rid of racism in this country. We just don't agree.
This should get quoted every 20 posts
post #38 of 85
Halfway through breakfast this morning, I chucked part of a doughnut in the trash. I was kicking myself for the rest of the A.M., never feeling totally full.

Close to lunchtime, my stomach was growling. I was hungry--I was ready for four doughnuts. And sure, thirty minutes later, I would be off to eat. But until then, I was doomed to go without, wondering why I gave up something I could never get back.

Lunch came, and sure enough, there was plenty. A little wiser, I made sure to eat all I had originally wanted. And it was great.

But nothing I had for lunch was as sweet as that Krispy Kreme I threw away.

Regardless of your "slant", I think eveyrone can agree that abortion is the elimination of potential. So I will only talk about things that are potential.

I was once potential. Wherever you put the origin. My conception. My parents planning to have a second child. My parents idly discussing having kids. My parents meeting. My parents being conceived, etc.

I agree that harsh conditions of reality do certainly make the concept of having a child frightening for an unprepared young potential mother. That is what make a pro-life position hit rocky waters. Opposition to this point of view states the plain facts of overpopulation, abandoned and neglected children, etc. They are right. Unplanned pregnancies that are seen to term often bring dire consequences.

This would be easier to swallow for pro-life advocates if pregnancy were some kind of communicable disease. But there is a preventable, highly obvious and avoidable cause for pregnancy. To the opposition, someone who says this is either making their point "after the fact" during an unwante dpregnancy, or "preaching" telling other people how to live their lives.

I wouldn't ask the typical "What about the lives of those children?" Since many don't consider conception the beginning of life. Speaking again of potential, "What of that potential?"

Potential means possibilities. Possibly, a child could be born with birth defects, die in complications as a miscarriage, grow up to be Hitler. There is as much negative potential as positive.

I often wonder though, if the staunch pro-chioce people could somehow be at their parent's side at the time the decision was given their parents, what they would offer. That is obviously not a realistic possibility, but a tough "what if"?

A few more "What if?s". Staunch pro-choicer, what if your parents had decided against delivering you? What if a sister, brother, or spouse of yours was denied becoming their potential?

It is so very gray. I do accept that. It is hard to acknowledge that no choice, legal or illegal is easy.

It does strike me as irresponsible, that some (few I hope) consenting adults that are well aware that intercourse is the sole cause of pregnancy, can enter into it with such abandon as to conceive. I understand some try contraception that fails. What I refer to is what must be seen as sheer stupidity. For those that are truly aware of the responsibility that sex requires. Those that attempt to prevent contraception and accidentally fail are another gray matter entirely. That is not what I am referring to.

What of people that, for whatever reason, refuse contraception, fully intending to abort anything that results, as often as it happens? That is an amazing amount of freedom they have. Thankfully, unportected sex carries no other possible consequences.

Sooner or later, either a female chewer, or a sensitive male chewer will post that "Men have no say," in this issue at all. That truly saddens me that as a man that would fully shoulder all the responsibilities of fatherhood and then some, that I would not be allowed to have a say regarding this loss of potential.

It certainly is a woman's body that the child grows in. What she allows into it, and has surgically removed from it is her business. And like Dennis Miller says, if men were the ones who carried the child, you could get an aborition at McDonald's.

When this decision is made, potential is being eliminated. The dependent, but living fetus is extracted from the woman's body, an she is free of the responsiblity that follows a completed pregnancy. There is no reversing this process.

I don't know a single one of my female friends, regardless of stance on abortion, that could fast forward into the life of the potential child and then return to the doctor's office for their abortion.

Because women have the opportunity to choose, does not make the ending of potential any less than total. Neither would going through with it necessarily contribute to her own happiness.

I am thankful that the potential child I was came into being. With all the survival odds where they were, I was fortunate enough not to be chosen for the trash.

My mother's stomach was full, despite my growling.
post #39 of 85
Dave, that was beautiful and moving.

Out of respect for that, I will stay out of this discussion. I've already stated my view on this in other threads.
post #40 of 85
Nice post, but I'd like to think I'm not so narcissistic that I'd want to go back in time to stop my parents from aborting me.
post #41 of 85
Quote:
ClearKronos Communications:

I don't know. I'd suggest looking up the definitions of ideology and agenda.
Okay, fair enough, but without bothering to look anything up (because you caught me and I should know better) let me just be more specific. I didn't consider myself to have an ideology because what I believe in changes from time to time. I'm totally open to the idea that maybe I'm wrong about the things that I consider to be major "truths" regarding life on this planet. When I do change my mind, or when someone brings something to my attention that changes my understanding of the world, it isn't something that rocks the foundation of my entire existence. My "ideology" doesn't force me to want to think any one thing is more true than anything else that has either merit or substantial proof. I'm not talking about moral relativism either, because I have some solid feelings about moral/ethical theory, and moral relativism to me is cop-out.

Now, on the other hand, it is my experience that many people are led around by their ideologies. True, they have agendas, but beyond that they give lip service to debate because in order for them to confirm that there is some merit and truth to your personal outlook it would conflict with their personal ideology of which they are convinced is the only way to see the issue.

So yeah, I have an ideology. It changes constantly and is mostly passive. What bothers me is those who have an ideology that is both impenetrable and contains the notion that any conflicting idea is patently without merit.
post #42 of 85
Quote:
Z-Man:
Yeah, to be clear (because alot of illogical vitriol gets thrown around in this forum), I was just kidding CT. I know what you meant.
I know Zman....hence my little Et tu Brute...well I forgot the Tu.
post #43 of 85
Thread Starter 
What of people that, for whatever reason, refuse contraception, fully intending to abort anything that results, as often as it happens?

I don't know. Abortions are costly, and painful, and are emotionally scarring. I can't imagine that many people would see this as a viable method of contraception. But I could be wrong.

And even if that were the case, I would be extremely happy that that type of person who would do that was not having kids. There are already too many children being born into this world whose parents are ill-equipped to take care of them (either financially or emotionally).
post #44 of 85
Quote:
Diva:
I don't know. Abortions are costly,
you can get one for about $100 at the planned parenthood center in lower manhattan...
post #45 of 85
Okay, what's missing from this sentence?
Quote:
"My administration has championed compassionate alternatives to abortion, such as helping women in crisis through maternity group homes, encouraging adoption, promoting abstinence education, and passing laws requiring parental notification and waiting periods for minors," Bush said.
I guess teaching a teen HOW TO PUT ON A FUCKING CONDOM isn't compassionate enough for W, huh?
post #46 of 85
Quote:
Nelson:
Quote:
Diva:
I don't know. Abortions are costly,
you can get one for about $100 at the planned parenthood center in lower manhattan...
Yeah, that's so much easier than using a condom, or the pill, or an IUD, or a douche, or a sponge...

Everybody knows that abortions are FUN! C'mon, try one! You'll never go back to the old ways!
post #47 of 85
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
Nice post, but I'd like to think I'm not so narcissistic that I'd want to go back in time to stop my parents from aborting me.
Wait, being more narcissistic would not make you want to prevent your own conception. It would make you go back and cheer your parents on, right?
post #48 of 85
Sheesh.

Why not just call it "All you fucking baby killers are gonna burn in hell" day
post #49 of 85
they would but the Wal-Mart marketing team secured the rights to that slogan already.
post #50 of 85
Uh Jacob, Bush didn't mention it due to the fact that he doesn't condone sex before marriage. So simple said if you don't have sex before marriage the less liely you will have a kid you don't want. And whether someone thinks it or not but him stating something like handing out condoms to teenagers would be essentially condoning sex before marriage. and I know that sets some other things up like upping the chance of kids having unprotected sex but I agree with the assertion of non condolence of sex before marriage.

Call it close minded if you wish but when a society begins to condone such actions (I know I know we already do) it has ramifications on the society a a whole. And trust me I know there are two way different opinions on that. I am just trying to explain what he is saying there.
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