Michael Moore's Oscar Acceptance Speech... - Page 3

Is there really still a debate over what happened? The 5 conservative justices of the US Supreme Court hijacked the election, and never allowed a full recount, which was required by Florida law because the results were so close.

To top it off, the majority opinion had the gall to say that the law should be interpreted this way for ONLY this case, and it should NOT be a precedent for future cases.

Has there EVER been a court case that has been disallowed to set precedent? It's the cornerstone of our system of laws and justice, and yet, it only doesn't apply in this particular case.

There shouldn't be a statute of limitations, either.

You think a guy calmly speaking in an even tone about his personal politics as he accept the greatest honor of his life is filled with hate, rage, or bile?

Make no mistake...I hit the mute button on most of the anti-war blathering at the Oscars. I didn't care to hear much of it and thought it was a little ill-timed, Moore included.

BUT I don't see how he did any harm to himself or his causes with what he did there. That guys has exposed himself through outlandish stunts/exposes to mainstream America over and over, and he's only getting more popular.

In much the same way that people on the left claim Bush is galvanizing their side and gathering more support for them.

Do some more research. There was a full recount. The Florida court was undeniably corrupt, and made decisions that flew in the face of the law and precedent so that their preferred candidate had a better chance of winning. The Supreme Court asked for their reasoning, and they never got it. Then 7 members of the Supreme Court said that what Florida had done was wrong wrong wrong, and five voted to end the process entirely. Basically the vote of seven ended the process in Florida.

Mikah,

He was foaming. What would have happened if he hadn't won... and all the documentary winners went up there to "support the winner?" I don't think he would have been able to restrain himself...

Dave, I've said it before and I'll say it again.

You are not a moron.

I can't see a direct correlation there as to how Bush SPURS people to oppose him except for in anecdotes here and there, but Bush can hardly be compared to Moore as far as achievements go.

Bush's consistently escalating scale of achievements includes:

- Mercurial approval ratings.
- Presiding over a continually dismal economy and job market.
- Having his popularity tied to how aggressively he's engaging with Middle Eastern foes in military battles
- Being unable - even with his party in control of the entire government - to get his agenda passed into law fully.
- Wildly unbalanced budgets
- Not much else.

Moore's making money and winning accolades. Bush is losing a WHOLE LOT of money and winning mixed reviews along partisan lines.

What is this? A very special episode of "Sliders"?

Who KNOWS what would've happened had he not won? Nobody. That's who.

You said...

I don't agree that he was calm or spoke in an even tone. I certainly don't think he saw the Oscar as the greatest honor of his life. Did he even mention word one about the documentary that got him up there? He used that moment self-indulgently, but why should a leopard change it's spots?

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Huh? Check out an audio or video clip. He's not yelling, stammering, stuttering, or unsure of himself. He raises his voice as much as anyone would addressing an assembly in a huge hall even while miked, but he was as calm as could be.

I would think he had said everything there was to say IN THE DOCUMENTARY since it is his creation. I'm sure he's thanked everyone involved already. The guy takes every oppurtunity to express his agenda. Why would he pass on this one?

I agree it was self-indulgent. Even to a fault. But I expected nothing else, and I don't really think there was much else to say.

All the posts seem to be gone from the outage, but I'm apologizing for my harshness on this remark anyway. I hate people that edit posts to hide behind what they said and won't be caught doing it myself. I got busted on the whole "bald/bold-faced liar" thing grammatically as well, which is just sad because I have a freaking degree in writing. Sigh.

Anyway, the reason I found the remark to be patently insane is because most liberals share at least a modicum of contempt for the electoral college. The only reason it exists is to keep the undesirable portions of the population from actually having a real voice in the presidential elections. And it reeks of the kind of advantages that are inherently built-in to the system to preserve the power of the privileged. Our president is a privileged man, who in my opinion has never had to work for anything and has never accomplished anything on his own. To me this makes him far less a man than any of you. It doesn't make it easier to stomach when he comes in and gets the "win" handed to him according to some arcane law written by a bunch of racists who founded this country just to get out of paying their taxes.

Finally:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."

-From Alexander Tyler. No, he wasn't writing about the United States. This quote is well over one hundred years old. Tyler was writing about the fall of the Athenian Republic.

Wrap your head around that one.

yeah, but the greeks suck anyways...



nice quote btw.

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To the boos and the "conspiracy theory"...

The boos were not from the ground floor. The were from the second deck (the non-elite, but important) and even more critical, the stagehands, lighting boys, union folks, and workers who made the show run. You know, the guys who probably have brothers over there? Hence the Teamsters joke...

So the boos were legit, and very fair. Freedom of Speech cuts BOTH ways, as much as the elite (left OR right) hate it.

To Devin,
If the Republicans "stole" the election by cheating...what's the problem?

Unless you actually believe that ONE political party would bend/break the rules while the other wouldn't. I am no insider, but both parties use the full arsenal of dirty tricks to win. This I know. Partisianship has become cutthroat and is probably hurting this country far more than the left's self-loathing of success and the right's need to control the public.

So, if the Elephants cheat better than the Donkeys within the rules...why the hell would I want a Donkey to win? He's no good to me if he's a loser who can't play the game.

Cynical, I know. And I don't really believe there was that much skullduggery. I do believe both sides would do anything to win, and I find it intellectually laughable (and I am an idiot) that one political party is morally superior to another.

They both get their money from corporations. Hillary makes as much as McCain (more actually). I am sure many here have seen the e-mail about Hillary blasting CEO benefits and then listing her PAID BY US TAXPAYERS MONEY perks she gets FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE. Trial Lawyers, Enron...what's the difference????

Anyways, hooray to Moore for effectively wielding his Freedom of Speech. Hooray to the cheap seats for letting him know how they felt.

Freedom of Speech is the very core of the US Bill Of Rights. Just don't forget where they came from. Not the college professor giving teach-in's inbetween sabbaticals and co-eds, and not the sitting Elephant President.

Take care,
Chuck

No hard feelings whatsoever, Nick. I was an English major as well, yet sometimes I find myself speaking as though English were my seventh or eighth language.

I can understand the contempt for the electoral college completely. Back in the days before the election, I got into a long discussion on the topic of the college with a roommate. I was against it, he was for it. At that point it looked as though Bush might win the popular vote but Gore would take the electoral college (remember that? ironic) Anyway, I was a Bush supporter, he was totally and completely behind Gore. The argument lasted three days, but he was a government major and I was a lowly English major, and I eventually conceded that the college had merit. Thank God I did - it saved me from looking like a complete hypocrite a few weeks later on election night. So yeah, I understand how one might oppose the college. Although, thinking back, I thought the college was meant less to rob the undesirables of a voice then to give smaller states more power.

Incredible quotation, by the way.

And yes, Nick, that is a badass quote.

Thanks for sharing it,
Chuck

Actually I have a journalism degree in film and TV production with a minor in drama, so my grammer fails constantly.

I don't completely agree with that quote, but I don't totally disagree with it either. I think that it is true of almost all powerful societies before us that were not conquered and changed via imperialism. I also think there is a opportunity for anything to happen in the course of history.

I wish I had idea one on how such a fate might be avoided. As far as I can tell the plan now is to avoid it by furthering the task of worldwide American hegemony.

Good thing we're not a democracy.

Phew!

I didn't watch the Oscars because the typical nauseating bullshit would only be more so, it seemed tacky during a time of war, they got most of the nominations wrong, and because of inevitable leftist blowhards like Michael Moore having 3 hours of open mike time. I had better things to do.

Burke made the point that the RNC must be thrilled. Others said that Moore's bestseller status and Bowling for Columbine show that he's not only popular, but he's making an impact! Okay.

So how to account for Bill O'Reilly being the #1 rated show on cable news? Is it because everyone agrees with him, or that everyone is a conservative?

No, its because just like Moore, he's entertaining in his ridiculous behavior and people want to be entertained even when trying to get filled in on politics. Moore is just preaching to his own choir. Why would the right not be upset and be simply ammused by this?

Because the swing voter, the only voters that matter in elections anymore, approve of Bush's handing of the war by 65%. They approve of his overall job performance by 66%. Surely this must be from FoxNews or National Review right? Wrong. Its from that oh-so conservative newspaper the "New York Times".

Or the fact that the people drooling over Moore's every word like Devin are the ones who bolted and voted for Nader, and probably will again. At best they'll continue to throw all their money at Howard Dean instead of a candidate like Joe Lieberman or even John Kerry who actually has a shot of beating Bush.

So Michael Moore, have all the fun you want. People watch because you're a big loudmouth redneck who, like Howard Stern, is good for shock value. I hardly think that the left would like the swing voter to have his image in mind when heading into the voting booth.

Bolted? I voted democrat once in my whole life.

Good call. They showed the front rows and they were mostly silent and stonefaced. Probably knowing if they clap at the Oscars-like many did at the Independent Spirit Awards, their box office would suffer.
The Kennedy Dems did a better job at stealing the 1960 election the Nixon Rep-turnabout is fair play.

Last night on Jay Leno, Roger Ebert said that Moore was flat out lying about being booed by only 5 people. He said there were definitely a lot of people booing.

Imagine that... Michael Moore lying. I never thought I'd see the day... wink

I don't know if it would be possible for you to be MORE wrong factually and legally. Read the actual cases and non-partisan print sources before you spout things like this.

The problem is that the left STILL cares about that election, one in which Bush won by the system the constitution set up. You don't like it, fine. Perhaps push for a change in the system. But it's over. Bush is the president. Everytime a leftist brings up "illegitimate president" or any other such diatribe, they lose credibility to those more politically central. It just makes them look bad, so it would be wise to stop it if they want to stay politically alive and credible.

And Mikah, for you to imply that Moore's accomplishments are somehow significantly greater than Dubya's is pretty funny.

Good for you, which is of course exactly my point. You and the rest of the ski mask wearing vandalizers, America-haters, and Michael Moore fan club members can scream as loud as you want but will continue to be a non-entity when it comes to elections. Elections that are required to remove Mean 'Ole George W. Bush from office.

Regime change can be acheived in many ways. Hell, you conservos didn't want to bother with an election to get rid of Clinton. If a coup is good enough for you...

Don't confuse House Republicans with conservatives, first of all. I don't confuse the Jim McDermotts with Democrats or even most liberals.

My point is that Bob Dole might not have been my idea of the best conservative President. But if I think he'd be better than Bill Clinton there's no way I would even think of wasting my vote on a third party. I sort of admire your stubbornness, but when you make 100% ideological purity the necessity for your vote you're just going to keep voting for George W. Bush when you think you're voting Nader.

I don't think Gore would be any better than Bush. I believe that both parties serve the same masters.

To quote Bill Hicks: "Should I vote for the puppet on the left or the puppet on the right?"

And that's why I work doing voter registration every year. I believe that most of the people who don't vote out there feel very much like I do about the two major parties. Whether or not they share my other politics, I think most Americans think that the choice presented is no choice at all - the key is to get them to stop reacting to that with apathy.

So actually, I think that I'm worth an awful lot more than my one vote when it comes to getting rid of W.

Hell, you'd be worth twice as much if you lived in Florida!

Devin, man, don't even imply stuff like that. We have our differences, but I don't want to see the Secret Service knocking down your door and your existance erased from the face of the earth.

How about supporting a candidate that has a chance of beating Bush, and campaigning for them? My grandfather always said, "You don't vote for who you like, you vote against who you don't."

I'm curious about this. What if you find out someone you are trying to get to register (is that even what you do? I have no idea) is going to register Republican and vote conservative. Do you still bother? Do you try to get them to switch sides?

I'm curious about this because I talked with someone who hated that the younger generation was so apathetic about politics and the war and said they wanted to "Inform them about the issues". I of course asked if this information would include both sides. He in turn said "No, I'm anti-war". I didn't want to ask how that was "informing about the issues".

Just curious, Devin. Not a personal attack in any way.

People register how they want, I don't tell them how to register. The only thing I do is inform them that the Independance Party is not the same thing as being independant.

I don't exactly understand why you would have a problem with someone proselytizing to people about their views in this situation, though. Being anti-war is not really just an idealogical thing. People are dying.

Devin you missed the point. I have no problem with that at all.

What I have a problem with is someone claiming they want to "Inform them on the issues" (EXACT QUOTE) when they really want to "inform them on their position". Their is a vast difference that some don't seem to grasp, but that I know you do.

Unless the guy is CNN I don't think he has any responsibility to present anything other than what he thinks is the truth.

If I wanted to explain to you why I think the KKK is bad I don't think I need to present their side. Not comparing, just using an analogy.

*Sigh*

My point is, once again, he is misrepresenting his actions. He was making it out like he is going to do the people a service, inform the people.

"Informing the people on the issues" takes into account the ENTIRE ISSUE.

"Informing on your position" is only on your side of the issue, and more self-serving, and more honest.

I just found his words to be ironic.

Anyway, if you are saying your going to inform someone about the "Issue" of the KKK, you do need both sides. If you are going to inform them why the KKK is an evil organization, you do not.

I think you're getting caught up in semantics on this one. Plus, if he really wants to present his side he has to explain the "reasons" the administration gives for the invasion. It is key to the idea of the war being illegal.

I personally think he had no right talking at the oscars about that, at least for me. I watched the oscars to get away and forget for a little bit about the war coverage thats on almost everywhere you look, and then Moore comes on and just has to use his 15 minutes of fame to spout off. Fat fuck.

He's on CNN right now.

I'm not gonna reiterate what I've said on that other post in the main sewer, but I would like to add some things.

Free speech is something I hold very dear, but there is a time, a place, and a way to make your points clear. Personally, I thought Moore overstepped all of those.

Take Adrian Brody. Pure class act. He made it perfectly clear that war is not something people want, but its happening as we speak. Our friends are over there, people are dying. The only thing we can ask for now is a quick resolution. The safety of our troops, regardless of the "fictiousness" of the war they're fighting.

Regardless of what you think of our president ( I, personally, don't care very much at all for the man), but unfortunately, he's the commanding chief of the Armed Forces. The troops overseas watching the Oscars don't need to hear what a dick he is, and what a joke of a mission they're on...not right now. Not on a day where (several? I don't recall) of our troops died.

Oh and, he gave the same speech verbatem the previous night at the Independent Spirit Awards.

I don't understand why you put the rolleyes on that sentence.

And this shit about the troops has to fucking end now. I will not give one bit of my rights up to make these fucking troops feel better. They're supposedly out there defending my right to get on TV and piss all over the president.

What a shock you don't care about what the troops are going through. It's common courtesy. All these men and women care about is going home.
It's not to much to ask to be respectful to their job and what they are doing. Oscar night was the chance for the troops to get a piece of home for a little while. Michael moore pissed all over that. That's why the both of you are fucking ass holes.

He disrespected Bush and the reasons for the war, not the troops. Plus, it's just one guy, and, if they know who Moore is, I doubt any of the troops were crying over it.

The Oscars are not presented for the sake of the troops. They're an award show for the movie industry. Sure, troops might watch it. So might anti-war protesters. So might Iraqis who have moved to the U.S. Should acceptance speeches be tailored to not offend everyone?

hey Chomsky, no one is talking about taking your rights away. say what you wanna say. it only shows how much venom you spew when you realize you have no power whatsover and how hopeless you are.

just remember class, taste, and elegance aren't for sale. but soap and water are.

<a href="http://www.devincf.com" target="_blank">My full thoughts on "The New PC"</a>

brilliant, uplifting, and revolutionary. don't flatter yourself, the guys are actually doing something for their country and not being looking like morons being chased by cops.

" the guys are actually doing something for their country and not being looking like morons being chased by cops. "

Please learn how to write if you're going to attack me.

Hey Devin, your opinion is bias.