Reparations and Affirmative action.

I was reading up on the case of several white students who are suing a college for what they cited as reverse racism in the form of affirmative action. They are even going as far, I heard, as to get affirmative action abolished.

Well...I don't really have all the info on that situation, but I believe that affirmative action wouldn't be necessary if proper reparations were given.

Reparations, you say? Are you mad?

Nope. I believe in reparations. Slavery and segrgation, as old as it is, put black people on a lower social rung in the US. It was a crime and it was unjust.

To say that the end of slavery and segregation evened the society and made everything right is a lie. The aftereffects of slavery will last for centuries if something isn't done, by both blacks and whites, to balance the status quo.

Institutionalised racism still exists, on both sides of the race barrier.
Ghetto areas didn't just "happen" because black people were idle or unproductive. The cycle of violence and parental neglect didn't just "happen" because of "traits" of a particular race. The African-American society is based within a society, which it is limited by and reacts to.
The society that was once arranged for whites to prosper and blacks to be marginalised has to be re-arranged in a way for everyone to get an equal chance.

And that's not going to happen until it becomes illegal or unprofitable for people in social or financial power to discriminate.

Affirmative action was a lazy way to get that job done.

That's where reparations come in.

Ignorant black people still call for reparations in the "four acres and a mule" category...or as Chris Rock once said, a condo and a Cadillac.

But that's ridiculous.

African-Americans don't need money in their hands, they need fair and equal opportunities in American society.

Reparations will obviously involve money, but it shouldn't be put into the hands of people who aren't educated enough to utilise it progressively.

Reparations should come as a social project. The renovation and improvement of urban schools. The enhancement and construction of urban recreation centres. Most importantly, scholarships. Tons and tons of scholarships and the construction of more universities that cater to the African-American experience.
Not institutions that cater exclusively for black students, but schools where black students can interact and co-exist with white students more comfortably.

Education is the key to the advancement of African peoples. Education enables more progressive action.

An educated and uplifted African-American population will result in a more prosperous society for everyone in America. In a society where half the population doesn't feel like it needs to work towards social acceptance, there can be solidarity and success since everyone can work towards the upliftment of a nation instead of a race.

So affirmative action is bound to be a sloppy and controversial issue. It's a narrow plan, and it generates negativity and envy towards the people it is meant to help.

It is as much a method of exclusion as it is one of inclusion. It will cause as much failure as it will success.

Reparation, ironically, can be achieved without any lasting cost to the people who are "paying out". And the dividends will benefit everyone.

Makes any sense to anyone?

Yeah...I know...I'm getting used to it. First time it happened on a different forum for a somewhat different but related topic, I was depressed for days.

And pirahnapicture, you're right about that. At least, I'll have to take your word about the general quality of the US schooling system. Just note that in a country where the schooling system is (as you say) less than great, schools in minority areas generally get the short end of the already short stick. Everyone needs better schooling, and it should be instituted not only equally, but fairly.

If there's only so much money to go around, at least the terrible "urban" schools should be broguth up to the level of the mediocre "non-urban" schools. There shouldn't be a case of funding mediocre schools to excellence and funding terrible schools to mediocrity. An effort should be made for all schools to have a certain standard.

It still beats (to a point) the schooling we have down here in Trinidad. We have a system of exclusion. As you go up the system, there are less and less (to an extreme degree) people in school, topped off by a tiny (less than 2% of the school population) "elite" that get the opportunity to receive an excellent education at the University of the West Indies...a school I'm lucky to be going to.

I wasn't just speaking about African-Americans. I was speaking about all minorities, PLUS white Americans who think they're being marginalised by the progress of minorties.

Heck...even women/genders can fit in there...but that's a whole other thread...

Question of the century.

Any answer you can think up for that little issue is a loaded one.

In the Caribbean, we got the biggest, best reparations of all...the whole countries we built.

Granted, they're tiny countries, but one of the things I've always loved in Trinidad is that down here, regardless of what ethnicity you are...you're a person, not a statistic or a minority. Does tons for the esteem (for better or worse).

And what does that better than education?

I think I implicitly spoke against "throwing money out" at people. A school isn't money. It's an opportunity. And it's an investment that will help everyone in the long run.

And Burke, sorry if what I said seemed so eye-rollingly ludicrous.

There'd be nothing to revile if education was available for all or at least, more.

And blacks who "talk white" are not in any way or form the average educated black person. That has very little to do with education.

The poor and uneducated are envious of what they don't have, whether they can get it easily or (in most cases) not get it at all.

I don't see why people are so frustrated with the idea.

Slavery was a long-term investment that more or less built the country's economic foundation, but sent an ethnic group into a social status quo that is detrimental to both themselves and society in general.

Education can be the investment that pulls that ethnic group out of the status quo, and give them a real opportunity to help build a nation.

Who cares what racists think?

They aren't pissed about the government spending money on the upliftment of a people, they're terrified with the idea of a society where everyone will be equal, have equal opportunities, and equal status. They don't realise that the upliftment of blacks doesn't mean the degredation of whites.

I don't get it...the government was fine with taking the easy way with slavery and segregation, and now it's a problem to take the easy way of good edcation for all?

Both point towards the same result.

Hmm...are you two reading anything I wrote at all?

I said I'm 100% AGAINST the "cash handout" idea of reparations.

I don't want money put into the hands of people who will do crap like buy Hummers and chrome rims.

I spoke of money being spent on schools/scholarships and other amenities for ghetto areas. Attitudes CAN and have been changed by simple things like Youth Centres and basketball courts.

What are you going to argue now, that racists will go running and gunning into schools where those "lazy minorities" are trying to get an education?

Yeah well I'm talking about a different type of reparation.

I didn't open this thread or write that post to stimulate discussion on something that I frankly think is shit.

I suggested something different. If you don't agree with what I said, say that and we'll move on from there. Don't take a step backwards and have us wasting time debating something that was never put forward in the first place.

I'm trying to raise a positive aspect of this issue. Please open your mind and comment on IT instead of focusing on stuff that we both agree is negative.

Please, I'm trying my best to be progressive here.

As for the violence against black people in schools etc...It's been done. I think African-Americans are resilient enough to resist it. Won't be the first time.

Since when has any society stood for not doing what is right because of what bad people would do?

I give up. Feel satisfied.

Poor or not, white people generally do not have to deal with institutionalised racism.

(Edit: At least, not to their detriment.)

Poor white people didn't become poor because of government-sanctioned situations like slavery and segregation.

The government's decision to allow racism and segregation to exist is by far the major factor behind the state of much of the African-American population right now. It's the government's responsibility to right that wrong.

And if women demand it too because of government-instituted gender-biased laws, so be it.

Either way, I never said that I was against giving poor white people opportunities. It's about equality, isn't it?

I hope so...