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CALIFORNIA GOV. DEBATE discussion

post #1 of 241
9/24/03 at 10:25pm
Thread Starter 
Take.

The.

Mic.

Away.

From.

Arnold.

Now.
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post #2 of 241
9/24/03 at 10:33pm
TAKE.

THE.

MIKE.

FROM.

ARIANNA.

NOW!

The woman is purposely making this debate a hogwash...
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post #3 of 241
9/24/03 at 10:45pm
Thread Starter 
I agree because she's more concerned with targeting Arnold than anything else. Not good.

McClintock and the Green Party guy are coming off the best, though I'd give the edge to McClintock. Bustamante is just sitting there agreeing with everyone.
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post #4 of 241
9/24/03 at 10:45pm
Their accents are killing me.

Their opinions are killing me.

This debate is killing me.

Still, it beats Georgia state politics by a country mile. (HAR!)
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post #5 of 241
9/24/03 at 10:49pm
Quote:
Micah Robinson:
I agree because she's more concerned with targeting Arnold than anything else. Not good.

McClintock and the Green Party guy are coming off the best, though I'd give the edge to McClintock. Bustamante is just sitting there agreeing with everyone.
Wow...she is pretty damn blatant isn't she? Why has she had the most speaking time?

McClintock needs to interject himself some more though.
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post #6 of 241
9/24/03 at 11:02pm
Bustamante is like a black hole of charisma.

And is it just me, or does Shwarzenegger seem like the World's Biggest Prick?
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post #7 of 241
9/24/03 at 11:05pm
Thread Starter 
And the ARnold assaults continue...

Look I don't mind because she is using facts and his words to make her valid points, but I hate the idea of a candidate simply existing as a "spoiler" for someone else.

Way too much of that. The Green Party gent is negating Arnold without being so single-minded and blustery.
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post #8 of 241
9/24/03 at 11:11pm
Who's that moderator? He's doing a lousy job...
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post #9 of 241
9/24/03 at 11:14pm
I hate his guts but now I actually feel sorry for Arnold. He's so utterly helpless. He just has no idea what he's talking about.

"And dis kind of thing. And dat kind of thing. And all dose kind of things."

I'm going to hear his voice saying "Ariana" in my sleep now.
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post #10 of 241
9/24/03 at 11:41pm
Quote:
Micah Robinson:
I agree because she's more concerned with targeting Arnold than anything else. Not good.

McClintock and the Green Party guy are coming off the best, though I'd give the edge to McClintock. Bustamante is just sitting there agreeing with everyone.
McClintock shot himself in the head in his closing statement. Why did he have to go all idealogical when practically NONE of those things was brought up in the "debate"? Yes, he's the best man for the job in a fiscally disastrous State.

Unfortunately he's not electable this time 'round.
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post #11 of 241
9/24/03 at 11:43pm
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
Who's that moderator? He's doing a lousy job...
I've met Stan...he was fairly ambushed by this thing because he's an extremely competent person, which he didn't display here. Well, except for his leashing of Arianna, which was necessary.
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post #12 of 241
9/25/03 at 12:25am
The Green party candidate was easily the most intelligent man at that table.
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post #13 of 241
9/25/03 at 12:27am
And the most insane one at the table too.
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post #14 of 241
9/25/03 at 12:59am
Drop by my place of employment sometime. You'll hear English spoken with Japanese, Chinese, Pacific Island, Southeast Asian, Central American, Mexican American, Russian, and one or two other accents I don't quite know. The place I have lunch has almost all Chinese and Russian/Ukraine women working there.

So in a word, yes. You can't swing a Balalaika without hitting an immigrant(illegal or otherwise).
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post #15 of 241
9/25/03 at 1:20am
Damn those immigrants.
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post #16 of 241
9/25/03 at 1:37am
Quote:
flyarz:
Damn those immigrants.
Only the ILLEGAL ones.
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post #17 of 241
9/25/03 at 2:02am
Arnold didn't sound bad by any stretch of the imagination. He was fine. Nothing specatcular, but fine.

McClintock came off the best. Everyone knew he was conservative, his talk at the end was to pull the Republicans away from Arnold. Effective, but he still doesnt have much of a chance.

Bustamante was to passive. He didn't do much of anything. He needed to be a bit more aggresive and wasn't, so I think he might be the biggest loser in the debate.

Huffington- She said virtually nothing of value and shouldn't have even been on this panel. All she did was attack attack attack. Pathetic, really.

Green Party Candidate- Came across as very intelligent, but as an extremist liberal as well (well, yeah). His attacks on W could steal him some votes from Bustamante (maybe from people who don't realize he will have no impact on US Federal Policy), but really didn't do much to sway any voters that weren't going to vote Green anyway I would imagine.
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post #18 of 241
9/25/03 at 2:07am
Quote:
Kronos poured the foundation:
Quote:
flyarz:
Damn those immigrants.
Only the ILLEGAL ones.
You mean the white people who stole the country?
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post #19 of 241
9/25/03 at 2:12am
Oh wait, those dumb Injuns didn't have the sense to make committing genocide against them ILLEGAL.
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post #20 of 241
9/25/03 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Bucky Wunderlickcf:
Quote:
Kronos poured the foundation:
Quote:
flyarz:
Damn those immigrants.
Only the ILLEGAL ones.
You mean the white people who stole the country?
Yeah, the Eastern white people who stole California from the Spanish families who owned it. You know, those fucking gold panners followed by the United States Army. The US Army - you know, the ones in blue - took California from the families who rightfully owned it.
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post #21 of 241
9/25/03 at 1:27pm
Now back to the discussion at hand...

Here's the best scenario:
McClintock drops out in exchange for a spot as State Budget Director under Schwarzenegger.

Arnold wins at 53%.

That way Mr Spacely has to go back to his office and shut the hell up, Arianna takes her yapping ass home, Camejo goes back to Folsom and does...whatever he does.

And the business of getting California back on its feet can begin in earnest.
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post #22 of 241
9/25/03 at 1:35pm
Thread Starter 
Based on how Schwarzenegger came across last night, how is it that you think any scenario with him being Governor is best-case?

He won't take a no new taxes pledge, which means McClintock - who has - couldn't work but so well under him.
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post #23 of 241
9/25/03 at 1:38pm
Because the alternative is unthinkable.
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post #24 of 241
9/25/03 at 1:39pm
Look, I'm a serious McClintock supporter as he's the only true right-winger. But he's not electable and Bustamante is Davis squared.
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post #25 of 241
9/25/03 at 1:51pm
Thread Starter 
I figure Bustamante would then be the best case scenario because:

A) He's the devil you know
B) Can now be made accountable to uphold promises he's made about improving his performance and that of the state's economy during the recall campaign, and if he doesn't, you're GUARANTEED a Republican governor a couple of years from now.
C) The intra-party fighting between the McClintock and the Schwarzenegger factions will make progress on any fiscal issues SLOW.
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post #26 of 241
9/25/03 at 1:52pm
Bustamonte is scary... I think Issa was spot on when he said don't vote for the recall if Bustamonte will win it.

As for Ms. Stassanoupolous, lest anyone forget that she was the puppet master for her closeted homosexual husband when he ran for governor of California. I don't care how good a debater she is... she's a loony toon and a liar. Arnold should have called her on that.

Why did Camejo and Huffingoton both get seats at the debate when their campaigns are officially joined together?
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post #27 of 241
9/25/03 at 1:57pm
If you guys actually elect Schwarzenegger as Governor of California, you deserve whatever happens to you.
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post #28 of 241
9/25/03 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Micah Robinson:
I figure Bustamante would then be the best case scenario because:

A) He's the devil you know
B) Can now be made accountable to uphold promises he's made about improving his performance and that of the state's economy during the recall campaign, and if he doesn't, you're GUARANTEED a Republican governor a couple of years from now.
C) The intra-party fighting between the McClintock and the Schwarzenegger factions will make progress on any fiscal issues SLOW.
True to a certain extent. But it's crystal clear right now more than ever that whatever bill the legislature sends to the Governor's office the Governor WILL sign. And our legislature is as left as Politboro, therefore a balancing force must take hold in the Governor's office.

And as the very glib and sometimes interestingly wise Dennis Miller said last evening, "The legislature has been spending like drunken sailors. But even a drunken sailor has to pay to get the tattoo removed."

A pledge of no tax increases flies against the reality of life in California. And this is coming from a tax-hater like me! But I'm nothing if not a realist.
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post #29 of 241
9/25/03 at 2:00pm
Thread Starter 
Burke, you may get shit for this, so I'll be the first.

What does her ex-husband being a "closeted homosexual" have to do with anything? That's like making a point to say she's married to a black guy.
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post #30 of 241
9/25/03 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
If you guys actually elect Schwarzenegger as Governor of California, you deserve whatever happens to you.
Unfortunately we elected Davis a second time, and we are paying for what we deserved there.
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post #31 of 241
9/25/03 at 2:11pm
Thread Starter 
Arnold is like Clark right now in that he's still a great concept with no real weight or heft behind him. I like the IDEA of a moderate that gets along with both parties and who wants to get California's finances in order taking a hold of the governor's mansion. I could care less what party he comes from.

But Scwarzenegger doesn't seem to be anything more than that vague ideal.

I sincerely hope Clark becomes more tangible because the concept of Clark is exciting as well, but he, too, has to evolve.

Since, I, too, ama fiscal conservative, K, I really wish McClintock would take it. I could live with his social positions because I think they'd take a back seat to getting California back in the black.
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post #32 of 241
9/25/03 at 2:18pm
Quote:
Since, I, too, ama fiscal conservative, K, I really wish McClintock would take it. I could live with his social positions because I think they'd take a back seat to getting California back in the black.
And THAT'S why his closing statement was so telling. If he was serious about getting elected he wouldn't played the gun card or the life card. "Yeah yeah yeah, we all know you're a right-winger, Tom. You don't have to convince us."

Therefore with Tom as Budget Director and Arnold signing fiscally responsible bills this State could come back into prominence. Even Arnold's feelings about immigrants is moderate as he favors amnesty for current illegals, which actually makes sense. We need a starting point to recover.
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post #33 of 241
9/25/03 at 2:24pm
Thread Starter 
I prefer McClintock be upfront about that. I'm not anti-gun, and frankly I don't see him getting far on introducing anti-abortion legislation in California, so those things mean little to me.

But I think he's deadly serious. I feel like he means it when he says he won't fold. Why even debate if you have no intention of getting elected? In fact, why debate well - making Arnold look like an amateur - if you're then going to prostrate yourself to his campaign?
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post #34 of 241
9/25/03 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Micah Robinson:
Burke, you may get shit for this, so I'll be the first.

What does her ex-husband being a "closeted homosexual" have to do with anything? That's like making a point to say she's married to a black guy.
Scuttlebutt was that he wanted to end his charade as a candidate early but that she held "the big secret" over him, which is why I pointed it out. No slur on him except for being a dupe; it just goes to show that she completely used and abused him, whcih is why her words ring completely hollow to me. What kind of progressive blackmails her husband into running for the governor by threatening to expose his sexual orientation? I'm amazed people don't call her on this. She's a monster.
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post #35 of 241
9/25/03 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Micah Robinson:
I prefer McClintock be upfront about that. I'm not anti-gun, and frankly I don't see him getting far on introducing anti-abortion legislation in California, so those things mean little to me.
And ultimately the abortion card means nothing to the Governor's office either. The Governor cannot make any changes one way or another to such things anyway.

But when you're looking toward swinging the undecided vote -which is what these debates are actually geared to doing- you can't come across all ultra-right, which is what scares away many swing voters. The aim is to get elected.
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post #36 of 241
9/25/03 at 3:06pm
If Arnold tosses to Tom then Bustamante wins the moderate/swing voters.

And California loses.
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post #37 of 241
9/25/03 at 10:37pm
California will lose if Schwarznegger or McClintock win the governorship.
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post #38 of 241
9/26/03 at 1:17am
Quote:
Anger Management:
California will lose if Schwarznegger or McClintock win the governorship.
You*chuckle* really don't live here, do you?

And Jim, Davis cannot continue. The Politboro sends him the wackyest bills and he signs them! Triple the cartax? DL's for illegal aliens?

Davis is an embarrassment even in the Democrat party and they aren't even pushing the "no" bit anymore!
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post #39 of 241
9/26/03 at 9:33am
Simon, Issa(pending annuncement this morning during the 8:00 hour), and the majority(40 of 53) of California's Republican County Supervisors have endorsed Arnold.

Now it appears the only one who is waiting is Tom McClintock.
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post #40 of 241
9/26/03 at 8:13pm
Davis' actions disqualify him from being Governor in both the eyes of the law and the view of Californians. To have signed the bill giving driver's licenses to illegal aliens certifies him as a danger to National Security and in contempt of California taxpayers.

And that's just ONE of his actions.
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post #41 of 241
9/29/03 at 4:06pm
<a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/2003-09-28-recall-poll.htm" target="_blank">http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/2003-09-28-recall-poll.htm</a>

Looks like support for the recall is waning but support for Arnold and Tom McClintock is ascending, according to this poll.

I still haven't decided who I'm going to vote for.

Question: Should I vote my conscience or should I vote for the most likely positive outcome?
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post #42 of 241
9/29/03 at 6:02pm
Vote to keep Mr Spacely from ascending to the head office in Sacramento.

It is unconscionable to allow him to go there and it is equally unconscionable to allow Davis to stay.
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post #43 of 241
9/29/03 at 6:40pm
I'm already there...

just feeling out whether or not people think I should vote waste my vote by voting for the most qualified candidate or voting for the candidate that is the lesser evil in a spate of enlightened self interest.
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post #44 of 241
9/30/03 at 10:20am
Bustamante has canceled all his appointments and interviews today as of 6:20AM. This is just about always a sign.

Developing...
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post #45 of 241
9/30/03 at 11:41am
Quote:
Kronos, tonight on Frontline:
Bustamante has canceled all his appointments and interviews today as of 6:20AM. This is just about always a sign.

Developing...
A sign of?
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post #46 of 241
9/30/03 at 12:43pm
Quote:
CTDeLude (CHUDpublican):
Quote:
Kronos, tonight on Frontline:
Bustamante has canceled all his appointments and interviews today as of 6:20AM. This is just about always a sign.

Developing...
A sign of?
Halo LAN party.
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post #47 of 241
9/30/03 at 12:55pm
Cruz is about to drop, throwing all of his support to Davis/"No on Recall".
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post #48 of 241
9/30/03 at 1:35pm
Wow. He must really loathe Davis.

I know how he feels.
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post #49 of 241
9/30/03 at 1:37pm
Just curious. Where were all the Davis-haters when he won his re-election bid?
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post #50 of 241
9/30/03 at 1:55pm
We were all crying in our milk at the lameness of the other candidates.

McClintock would have won easily in 2000, even in a state that has a liberal majority. He wouldn't have been afraid to debate Davis, as Simon was, and gives as good as he gets. He gives off an aura of honesty (for a politician) even when you want him to tone it down. Davis gives off a smell..

Plus, the governor and presidential elections were at the same time. Since Bush gave up on the state, his national election strength did little to help Simon, who Bush barely supported anyway. Most Gore/Nader voters probably held their nose and voted for Davis, just like I held my nose and voted for Simon.
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