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Civilian Casualties - Sparing the public the horrors of war

post #1 of 39
3/22/03 at 12:51pm
Thread Starter 
"Sparing the public the horrors of war"
Printed on Saturday, March 22, 2003 @ 02:23:10 EST ( )

By Firas Al-Atraqchi
YellowTimes.org Columnist (Canada)

(YellowTimes.org) – Day three of Operation Iraqi Freedom resulted in bombing the hell out of the Iraqis.

Massive protests have broken out all over the world, particularly violent ones in the Arab world. Four Yemenis were killed in clashes with police in Sana'a. For the first time, the Union Jack was being burned alongside U.S. and Israeli flags in those protests.

Arab TV networks, notably Abu Dhabi TV, Al-Jazeerah, and Al-Arabiya have shown scores of Iraqi civilians -- women and children -- as they are brought into hospitals and triage units for treatment. In the early hours of the aerial assault, the casualties were light. However as the hours turned into days, the pictures of Iraqi wounded became more disturbing, more grotesque.

None of these images were shown on U.S. networks. Not CNN, MSNBC, FOX, CBS, NBC, etc. The question is why? The answer: support for the war may drop markedly. The answer: to spare the U.S. viewing public an assault on their sensitivities. The pictures of planes crashing into the World Trade Center are horrific and infringe on a person's sense of reality and humanity; however, the incredible, awesome firepower unleashed on downtown Baghdad is considered just and moral, a liberation, if you will.

Instead of the humanitarian toll, we were witness to hours upon hours of videophone coverage of U.S. armor roving through the barren desert.

To read the rest, click here: <a href="http://www.yellowtimes.org./article.php?sid=1192&mode=thread&order=0" target="_blank">http://www.yellowtimes.org./article.php?sid=1192&mode=thread&order=0</a>

[Firas Al-Atraqchi, B.Sc (Physics), M.A. (Journalism and Communications), is a Canadian journalist with eleven years of experience covering Middle East issues, oil and gas markets, and the telecom industry.]

Firas Al-Atraqchi encourages your comments: fatraqchi@YellowTimes.org

YellowTimes.org is an international news and opinion publication. YellowTimes.org encourages its material to be reproduced, reprinted, or broadcast provided that any such reproduction identifies the original source, <a href="http://www.YellowTimes.org." target="_blank">http://www.YellowTimes.org.</a> Internet web links to <a href="http://www.YellowTimes.org" target="_blank">http://www.YellowTimes.org</a> are appreciated.

Edited per Coyote's request...

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post #2 of 39
3/22/03 at 1:23pm
Americans will not see any of this for weeks or months. When the truth does start filtering through to America, the war will be over and no one will care.
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post #3 of 39
3/22/03 at 1:41pm
yt...if possible (ie, not frames, or time sensite articles that will disappear in 24 hrs), please only quote the gisty bits, and then post the link. It's a legal matter, is all. I severely doubt anyone's going to sue over such a thing, but....
I realize every now and then, it's just easier to post most (or all) of the article (I've done that myself, before) because of the weirdness of the site it's posted from, and if this falls under that, please disregard.
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post #4 of 39
3/22/03 at 1:42pm
I heard one of thise Iraqi press confrences-all bull shit. They said they destroyed 5 of our tanks and made us retreat from cities we haven't reached yet. Don't know if it was the same press confrence you mentioned, but it was also tough to hear.
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post #5 of 39
3/22/03 at 1:42pm
Oh, trust me, people will care. Maybe not enough people, but people will.

I'm going to be suprised if this thing just blows over.

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post #6 of 39
3/22/03 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Coyote (Shaken, not stirred.):
yt...if possible (ie, not frames, or time sensite articles that will disappear in 24 hrs), please only quote the gisty bits, and then post the link. It's a legal matter, is all. I severely doubt anyone's going to sue over such a thing, but....
I realize every now and then, it's just easier to post most (or all) of the article (I've done that myself, before) because of the weirdness of the site it's posted from, and if this falls under that, please disregard.
Quote:
yt:
YellowTimes.org is an international news and opinion publication. YellowTimes.org encourages its material to be reproduced, reprinted, or broadcast provided that any such reproduction identifies the original source, <a href="http://www.YellowTimes.org." target="_blank">http://www.YellowTimes.org.</a> Internet web links to <a href="http://www.YellowTimes.org" target="_blank">http://www.YellowTimes.org</a> are appreciated.
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post #7 of 39
3/22/03 at 1:56pm
Yes, that's a link to the site, not the article. The point of contention is not quoting the whole article en masse, not not linking to the source.
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post #8 of 39
3/22/03 at 2:20pm
Damn you!
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post #9 of 39
3/22/03 at 2:23pm
Uh, that sentence says that they encourage reproductions as long as it contains THAT link.
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post #10 of 39
3/22/03 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Anyawatcher:
I heard one of thise Iraqi press confrences-all bull shit. They said they destroyed 5 of our tanks and made us retreat from cities we haven't reached yet. Don't know if it was the same press confrence you mentioned, but it was also tough to hear.
now they're targeting reporters. they only network they want their al-jazeera tv.

it's just a matter of time before they put a sign in front of the blownup ministry of defense that reads: 'BABY MILK FACTORY.'

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post #11 of 39
3/22/03 at 3:01pm
Quote:
Mike Defeated (Devin):
Uh, that sentence says that they encourage reproductions as long as it contains THAT link.
Yes, but Nick has requested in the past that we do not quote articles en masse. It was a friendly request, I was not logged in as Star Chamber, nobody's in trouble (real or imagined), yt hasn't voiced a problem with my request, and in the interest of not derailing this thread, if anybody wants to discuss it further, please PM me instead.

I am Jack's run-on sentence.
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post #12 of 39
3/22/03 at 3:12pm
<a href="http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030321-023627-5923r" target="_blank">A group of American anti-war demonstrators who came to Iraq with Japanese human shield volunteers made it across the border today with 14 hours of uncensored video, all shot without Iraqi government minders present. Kenneth Joseph, a young American pastor with the Assyrian Church of the East, told UPI the trip "had shocked me back to reality." Some of the Iraqis he interviewed on camera "told me they would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They were willing to see their homes demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's bloody tyranny. </a>
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post #13 of 39
3/22/03 at 3:21pm
"There are 5 million people in Baghdad. If we go by Iraqi officials, we've injured 257 people and killed 14. That's .00542% of the population affected. And while I don't mean to reduce loss of life to a mere percentage, it does show that this hardly qualifies as 'bombing the fuck out of a country.'" - Pox and Awe

I borrowed this from fellow poster Pox and Awe. Numbers don't lie, casualties are VERY minor and the US is doing a bang-up (no pun intended) job of not targeting civilians. God Bless America, the coalition of the willing is doing a fantastic job.
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post #14 of 39
3/22/03 at 3:22pm
speaking of al-jazeera tv, U.S. tv is reporting that they barely mentioning ang Iraqi soldiers giving up and are concentrating on showing the Iraqi propaganda. I can understand the u.S. networks not showing the victims, but atleast we have some sense of balanced coverage. al-jazeera is such a shit whole network.
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post #15 of 39
3/22/03 at 3:24pm
Just because most people survive being bombed back to the stone age* doesn't mean we're not bombing the fuck out of the country.

*Not to be taken literally. It's an expresion.
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post #16 of 39
3/22/03 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Anyawatcher:
speaking of al-jazeera tv, U.S. tv is reporting that they barely mentioning ang Iraqi soldiers giving up and are concentrating on showing the Iraqi propaganda. I can understand the u.S. networks not showing the victims, but atleast we have some sense of balanced coverage. al-jazeera is such a shit whole network.
And that Iraqi official who gave that press conference yesterday was saying that the video of Iraqi soldiers surrendering are actually civilians being forced to wear uniforms by US troops.
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post #17 of 39
3/22/03 at 4:27pm
It's a propaganda war. Both sides are going to selectively release information and fudge figures to make themselves look better. Nothing new, sadly. Personally, I'm taking all "on the fly" casualty statistics with a mountain of salt at this point.
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post #18 of 39
3/22/03 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Coyote (Shaken, not stirred.):
Just because most people survive being bombed back to the stone age* doesn't mean we're not bombing the fuck out of the country.

*Not to be taken literally. It's an expresion.
Exactly. When the first gulf war ended people couldn´t get clean water. People died en masse after the war.
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post #19 of 39
3/22/03 at 4:59pm
Hence me saying "Nothing new, sadly". Just pointing out that any statistics or reports at this chaotic time are open to all sorts of spin and manipulation, regardless of who is handing them out.
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post #20 of 39
3/22/03 at 5:29pm
Quote:
Jamiepoole:
Yeah i know you made a valid point. I just dont get why america has to drop bombs when they could just as easily go in on foot.
If they don't drop bombs, they wouldn't be going in easily on foot.
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post #21 of 39
3/22/03 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Jamiepoole:
Yeah i know you made a valid point. I just dont get why america has to drop bombs when they could just as easily go in on foot.

Yeah, God forbid, the coallition conferences are all pure 100% grade a truth.
you do realize going on foot alone is diffacult? And that it would cause MORE civillian casualties and not less. Dropping the bombs, rather laser and GPS guided missles, we are hitting military targets and soldiers, minimizing civillian deaths.

Most of the information isn't coming from coalittion press confrences. Incase you haven't noticed the war is on live tv 24 hours a day. While the new may not be showing civillian causalties, they are reporting it. They are even reporting the absurd comments from Iraqi press conferences.

If you choose not to believe the gov't or the press then your S.O.L. when it comes to information. Only way to know for sure then is to go to Bagdad and see for yourself.
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post #22 of 39
3/22/03 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Jamiepoole:
Maybe you should join up since you think they are doing the right thing.
That comment shows you can't back up your argument?
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post #23 of 39
3/22/03 at 10:45pm
<a href="http://argument.independent.co.uk/leading_articles/story.jsp?story=389918" target="_blank">This is the reality of war. We bomb. They suffer </a>
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post #24 of 39
3/23/03 at 1:38am
Quote:
killbotfactory:
Liberating the Iraqi people <a href="http://www.aljazeera.net/news/arabic/2003/3/3-23-5.htm" target="_blank">one piece at a time...</a>

...don't click the link if you don't want to see a kid with half his head blown off.
have any pictures of the thousands and thousands of people Saddam had killed?
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post #25 of 39
3/23/03 at 1:41am
Quote:
Anyawatcher:
Quote:
killbotfactory:
Liberating the Iraqi people <a href="http://www.aljazeera.net/news/arabic/2003/3/3-23-5.htm" target="_blank">one piece at a time...</a>

...don't click the link if you don't want to see a kid with half his head blown off.
have any pictures of the thousands and thousands of people Saddam had killed?
I don't understand what the logic of this argument is. It literally makes no sense to me. Saddam killed many people (as has the United States, we just do it all over the globe and not in one place), so killing a couple of kids is no big deal? Is that your argument?

I ask seriously, because it makes not one lick of fucking sense.
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post #26 of 39
3/23/03 at 1:42am
Looking at this again, I think that your argument is based in the fact that you, like so many of your ilk, can only think in binary - if one is against the war they MUST BE FOR SADDAM!
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post #27 of 39
3/23/03 at 1:46am
Quote:
Mike Defeated (Devin):
Quote:
Anyawatcher:
Quote:
killbotfactory:
Liberating the Iraqi people <a href="http://www.aljazeera.net/news/arabic/2003/3/3-23-5.htm" target="_blank">one piece at a time...</a>

...don't click the link if you don't want to see a kid with half his head blown off.
have any pictures of the thousands and thousands of people Saddam had killed?
I don't understand what the logic of this argument is. It literally makes no sense to me. Saddam killed many people (as has the United States, we just do it all over the globe and not in one place), so killing a couple of kids is no big deal? Is that your argument?

I ask seriously, because it makes not one lick of fucking sense.
my point is I can show pictures of Saddam's killings. You can show show civillian deaths in a war. Big fucking deal. Argue the point, not pictures.
And besides your mind is made up and closed. You are right and everyone else is wrong. You never see the other side to ANY argument. You are a broken record and boring.
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post #28 of 39
3/23/03 at 1:48am
Your post is positively SOAKING in irony, what with the open mind you display.

I don't see what points you are making that can be viewed with an open mind, besides "civilian casualties in a war - big deal." Being an evolved human being who enjoys amenities like civilization, I won't be open minded to that kind of a sickening attitude.
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post #29 of 39
3/23/03 at 2:18am
The media is mentioning the civillian deaths, just not showing pictures on tv(atleast i haven't seen) I am starting to see dead Iraqi's in print. If you want to find those pictures you can, I have.
good luck finding anything but pics of Civillian deaths in middle easter outlets.
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post #30 of 39
3/23/03 at 2:19am
Why would you want to find them?

They work good as harsh reminders that war is a stupid idea, but mostly they just depress me.
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post #31 of 39
3/23/03 at 2:19am
I like late Easter, when the cadbury eggs are on sale.
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post #32 of 39
3/23/03 at 2:21am
Quote:
Mike Defeated (Devin):
I like late Easter, when the cadbury eggs are on sale.
Didn't waste any time. That's awesome....
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post #33 of 39
3/23/03 at 2:58am
Truth hurts at at times, doesn't it? Truth us 76% of American's support the war. Truth is, 80% of Americans could give 2 shits about what France and Germany think. Speaking of protestors, what kind of 'real' jobs do they have that they can protest on Thurs. and Fri. The real working population works for a living during the week. God Bless America, keep up the fantastic work.
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post #34 of 39
3/23/03 at 3:12am
"keep up the fantastic work"

What a creepy thing to say in a thread about civilian casualties.
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post #35 of 39
3/23/03 at 3:19am
Damn right it is creepy. Damn right, I still suppport Bush 100% percent. Damn right, I feel for the civilians. But at times, a few civilian casualties may occur to liberate a country; It is depressing, but true.
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post #36 of 39
3/23/03 at 7:27pm
77 dead in Basra so far, supposedly
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post #37 of 39
3/26/03 at 9:30am
Quote:
BigHeadTooler:
Damn right it is creepy. Damn right, I still suppport Bush 100% percent. Damn right, I feel for the civilians. But at times, a few civilian casualties may occur to liberate a country; It is depressing, but true.
Well thats ok then.
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post #38 of 39
3/26/03 at 11:16am
Damn right.
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post #39 of 39
3/26/03 at 1:49pm
Uh-oh, William Schneider on CNN just used the C-word: he was doing a piece on CNN about some poll results that showed that large percentages of people (60 to 70%) don't feel the government is telling them everything about the war, as far as timetables and possible casualties are concerned, and he said this is the beginning of the "credibility gap." And if you know anything about the Vietnam-era, that is NOT a good thing.
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