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CNN Reporting US Soldiers captured

post #1 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:11pm
Thread Starter 
Breaking news now, trying to hear the story...
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post #2 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:15pm
This was going to happen.
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post #3 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:15pm
Looks like the Iraqis have been putting up a real struggle the last few days. Wonder how this will affect the home morale?

Strategically speaking, the best thing the Iraqis can do is either kill these guys, or treat them really well. Holding them hostage, putting them on TV to repudiate the US (which is probably the first things the Iraqis will try to torture them to do) will only galvanize the American forces and people.
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post #4 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:21pm
My thoughts go out to these soldiers, in addition to all those who suffer torture or unescessary pain. I'll pray for them at Mass today.

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post #5 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:21pm
Now reports indicate that there is video of executed American servicemen along with video of captured Americans (including a woman)

Wrong move fellas. Absolute wrong move.
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post #6 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:24pm
The video was/is being shown on Al-Jazeera.
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post #7 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:25pm
I'll second that "bad fucking move."
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post #8 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:25pm
Fox and CNN are saying they won't rebroadcast it.
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post #9 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:28pm
That's pretty fucking weak of them. Somehow the 9/11 footage is allowable on permanent loop, but this is too much for our sensitive eyes?
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post #10 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:29pm
Bad fucking move is right.
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post #11 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Mike Defeated (Devin):
That's pretty fucking weak of them. Somehow the 9/11 footage is allowable on permanent loop, but this is too much for our sensitive eyes?
THAT'S your only response to this?
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post #12 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:30pm
It's against Geneva convention rules to show captives like the Iraqi's are doing.
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post #13 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Matt Carroll:
Quote:
Mike Defeated (Devin):
That's pretty fucking weak of them. Somehow the 9/11 footage is allowable on permanent loop, but this is too much for our sensitive eyes?
THAT'S your only response to this?
You're surprised?
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post #14 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:32pm
Thread Starter 
Guys, no matter what you may think of Devin, I don't think he's rejoicing that troops have been executed.
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post #15 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:34pm
All evidence to the contrary.
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post #16 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Matt Carroll:
Quote:
Mike Defeated (Devin):
That's pretty fucking weak of them. Somehow the 9/11 footage is allowable on permanent loop, but this is too much for our sensitive eyes?
THAT'S your only response to this?
What should my response be? Outrage that soldiers have been captured or killed in war? I don't have the info to say that they are being mistreated, but I bet that they probably are, and that's too bad.

By the way, Rumsfeld is saying that showing POWs on TV is against the Geneva Convention, yet I know for a fact that I have seen tons of pictures and videos of POWs that we took...
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post #17 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Mike Defeated (Devin):
Quote:
Matt Carroll:
Quote:
Mike Defeated (Devin):
That's pretty fucking weak of them. Somehow the 9/11 footage is allowable on permanent loop, but this is too much for our sensitive eyes?
THAT'S your only response to this?
What should my response be? Outrage that soldiers have been captured or killed in war? I don't have the info to say that they are being mistreated, but I bet that they probably are, and that's too bad.

By the way, Rumsfeld is saying that showing POWs on TV is against the Geneva Convention, yet I know for a fact that I have seen tons of pictures and videos of POWs that we took...
We weren't humilating them.
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post #18 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
Guys, no matter what you may think of Devin, I don't think he's rejoicing that troops have been executed.
I don't anyone thinks that(don't speak for everyone) but I think some people are sick of the crap he keeps spewing.
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post #19 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Swords N' CTDeLude:
Quote:
Mike Defeated (Devin):
Quote:
Matt Carroll:
Quote:
Mike Defeated (Devin):
That's pretty fucking weak of them. Somehow the 9/11 footage is allowable on permanent loop, but this is too much for our sensitive eyes?
THAT'S your only response to this?
What should my response be? Outrage that soldiers have been captured or killed in war? I don't have the info to say that they are being mistreated, but I bet that they probably are, and that's too bad.

By the way, Rumsfeld is saying that showing POWs on TV is against the Geneva Convention, yet I know for a fact that I have seen tons of pictures and videos of POWs that we took...
We weren't humilating them.
I guess that's a matter of perspective.
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post #20 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Anyawatcher:
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
Guys, no matter what you may think of Devin, I don't think he's rejoicing that troops have been executed.
I don't anyone thinks that(don't speak for everyone) but I think some people are sick of the crap he keeps spewing.
Which crap is that? My opinion?
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post #21 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:41pm
Guys...I've been watching the footage of the executed soldiers.

I didn't know this thread was open.

<a href="http://chud.com/board/ubbhtml/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=55;t=000787" target="_blank">Check this one.</a>
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post #22 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:42pm
By the way, what was in this thread was news to me...at least, the fact that it was confirmed by CNN.
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post #23 of 38
3/23/03 at 1:49pm
I don't anyone thinks that(don't speak for everyone) but I think some people are sick of the crap he keeps spewing.

Christ, if you have a problem with Devin, don't refer to him in the third party, especially when he is actively posting in this thread. Talk with him directly. I hear he likes that.

As far as this executed POW thing goes, it's a fucking travesty. My biggest fear in this war is that it will be a 3 year-long grudge-fest, and this isn't making it look like the US will be in and out. If the Iraqi military is indeed actually doing stuff this war, this war has the capacity to last for years.

My heart goes out to the families of the captured soldiers. $10.00 says the POW video shows up on Rotten.com this evening.
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post #24 of 38
3/23/03 at 2:04pm
Live feed from Al-Jazeera:

<a href="http://www.ish.com/news/Al-Jazeera.html#" target="_blank">http://www.ish.com/news/Al-Jazeera.html#</a>

If that doesn't work go here:

<a href="http://www.ish.com/news/" target="_blank">http://www.ish.com/news/</a>
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post #25 of 38
3/23/03 at 2:14pm
International law doesn't apply to us. We're the crazy cop who takes it over the line, loses his badge, but saves the day while the pencil pushing by the books cops are caught with their pants down.
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post #26 of 38
3/23/03 at 4:54pm
It has nothing to do with my stance on the war and everything to do with the media doing their job. And doing it consistently.
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post #27 of 38
3/23/03 at 8:59pm
I don't get it, why showing Iraqi soldiers surrendering and kneeling to the ground to be handcuffed is not against the Geneva convention, but showing US soldiers and asking them where they are from is?

Anyway, I felt sorry for those kids, I've never seen more scared people before. I hope the Iraqis keep up the PR tactic and treat them well.
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post #28 of 38
3/23/03 at 9:01pm
Also, refusing to show US casualties is an obvious propaganda technique. As long as you keep the dead faceless and just part of a statistic, the populace will keep failing to realise the reality of war and remain subdued.
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post #29 of 38
3/23/03 at 9:11pm
It's so fucking wrong on every level what the Iraqis did by having the POWs on television.

Those pictures Devin posted on his website are frightening.

It almost makes me feel not so bad we're bombing them.
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post #30 of 38
3/23/03 at 9:14pm
But Devin, I agree with the 9/11 thing.
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post #31 of 38
3/23/03 at 10:05pm
Do not get me wrong, I pray that the US Soldiers as well as the Iraqui can come home unharmed as fast as possible.

But this situation is a good example, what the international community wanted to warn you about, by saying; it is dangerous to deny that every human has equal rights. When your judges say, the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay don’t deserve human rights, or you break international law with this war, you bring your own people in danger. Why should the “evil guys” follow any rule, your government breaks?

I really condemn the Iraquis if they torture their prisoners. But again your government tortures their prisoners in Guantanamo Bay. And the Taliban in Afghanistan weren’t treated after the Geneva Convention as well.

And one last thing. Now a days psychological warfare is a common weapon, just like a tank or anything else. The Us Army uses the Us- media for it , as well as the Iraquis their crappy tv. Both were stupid if they won’t. I just want to remember, that you can not trust your media neither the iraqui one. That is no accusation, its just part of the information warfare.
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post #32 of 38
3/23/03 at 10:11pm
Quote:
Body George:
I really condemn the Iraquis if they torture their prisoners. But again your government tortures their prisoners in Guantanamo Bay. And the Taliban in Afghanistan weren’t treated after the Geneva Convention as well.
How are they being tortured?
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post #33 of 38
3/23/03 at 10:47pm
You surely saw the pictures. Their senses hearing, seeing, feeling were shut down by the way the were dressed up. They were tied up in a bend over position. Believe it or not, that is already called torture by the Geneva Convention. And again the us judges denied them human rights. For what reason did they do that?

Another thing is called out sourcing. Al Quaida worrier were brought or held in countries (like Morocco) where it is common to treat your prisoners a bit roughly.
You might say, well we need to get all information we can get by any means. They threaten our lives. I know it sounds cynical but right now the Iraqui military feels threatened by the US.
And there it is getting dangerous.
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post #34 of 38
3/24/03 at 2:52am
Quote:
Body George:
When your judges say, the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay don’t deserve human rights, or you break international law with this war, you bring your own people in danger. Why should the “evil guys” follow any rule, your government breaks?

I really condemn the Iraquis if they torture their prisoners. But again your government tortures their prisoners in Guantanamo Bay. And the Taliban in Afghanistan weren’t treated after the Geneva Convention as well.
To even compare what the US does to non-combatants (not covered by the Geneva Convention) and POWs to what the Iraqis do is missing the point on a number of levels.

So they don't know where they are going. So they are immobilized to prevent something from happening. How is this anything more than a prudent move? We feed them, we clothe them, we give them medical aid. They are, from a general sustinence point of view, better off than they were before they became prisoners.

Meanwhile, you have the Iraqis humiliating, torturing and executing real POWs covered by Geneva, and that is somehow comparable?
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post #35 of 38
3/24/03 at 2:56am
Quote:
george w. sorro:
Quote:
Body George:
When your judges say, the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay don’t deserve human rights, or you break international law with this war, you bring your own people in danger. Why should the “evil guys” follow any rule, your government breaks?

I really condemn the Iraquis if they torture their prisoners. But again your government tortures their prisoners in Guantanamo Bay. And the Taliban in Afghanistan weren’t treated after the Geneva Convention as well.
To even compare what the US does to non-combatants (not covered by the Geneva Convention) and POWs to what the Iraqis do is missing the point on a number of levels.

So they don't know where they are going. So they are immobilized to prevent something from happening. How is this anything more than a prudent move? We feed them, we clothe them, we give them medical aid. They are, from a general sustinence point of view, better off than they were before they became prisoners.

Meanwhile, you have the Iraqis humiliating, torturing and executing real POWs covered by Geneva, and that is somehow comparable?
This has not been declared a war. Does Geneva cover this?

And are they torturing people? I saw nothing of that.
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post #36 of 38
3/24/03 at 3:09am
The people are wearing uniforms - it is army v. army, so Geneva does cover it.

As far as the torture, that's what I heard, and it was inferred here. If that is inaccurate, then I recant the torture part.
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post #37 of 38
3/24/03 at 3:15am
Quote:
george w. sorro:
The people are wearing uniforms - it is army v. army, so Geneva does cover it.

As far as the torture, that's what I heard, and it was inferred here. If that is inaccurate, then I recant the torture part.
Speaking from what I have seen from our government, there has been no torture. And if there were torture, I think there would be plenty of mouthing off from Rummy.

I think this uniform thing is bullshit, by the way, and a dodge created to allow the US to circumvent Geneve in Afghanistan. And I think that we all have to sit back and agree that torture has been used in interrogation of Al Qaeda suspects - who get held as "enemy combatants" (I'm looking at you, Jose Padillo) but don't get the protections of Geneva. They end up in this weird semantic grey area where military tribunals get to execute who they like (and which we don't hear about).
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post #38 of 38
3/24/03 at 5:01am
Article 13 of the Geneva convention states;

"Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity"

Any parading of POWs on TV can be said to be satisfying public curiosity. Whilst the degree to which the convention is being broken is greater in the case of the Iraqi treatment of US POWs, the US/UK media is not whiter than white here. We need to get our own house in order first before we can complain about breaking conventions.
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