An image...no commentary needed

<img src="http://www.cnn.com/US/9806/06/nra.convention/boy.gun.jpg" alt="" />

You know, with all that's happening in this world, its funny how little Durango or Fort Lewis students know for that matter.

Do they know that there are cases of Jewish harrasment reports coming from all over the world? Several in Canada, France and others. Do we just not get it? Do we not understand that this issue is deeper than just a simple yes or no?

Do we understand where we stand? Do we understand what little power ANYONE has to stop either side from killing each other? Do we understand that at this point, we will probably see war within a week in the middle east? Protests for Palestine are happening all over the nation, one notably near Times Square. And yet for all those people who scream murder on the Isrealis, they don't hear the calls of Sucicide Bombers and how much more involved this all is.

I guess it frustrates me because people don't see how much of a catch 22 this is. We're screwed either way. We no longer can say, "Oh, we don't take a side, just let 'em kill each other..."

We can't do that anymore. We can't just look away or send envoys or tell them what to do. Can the United States of America tell another soverign nation what to do? Can the USA tell one nation who insists on sucide attacks what to do?

NO. Plain and simple, its not logical. They don't have to listen. They can do whatever they want. But we have a responsiblity to stop what is going on. And if we try every last thing we have to stop them, and we fail, what then?

Action. War. The Endgame in the middle east.

There is no simple answer to the Middle East Crisis and our problem is that we keep jumping to one side and then the other, saying things to keep BOTH sides happy and content.

We'll see how that holds up when more attacks happen and the heat intensifies into something we have never seen before.

I will of course admit, that I could be dead wrong. We could have a resolution within days and all the world will come together and be happy again.

Perhaps.

Whatever, but what about this one?

<img src="http://www.bragg.army.mil/www-82dv/kid_with_m4.jpg" alt="" />

Oh and...

<img src="http://www.americanpatrol.com/RALLIES/BUSH_RALLY/kidsbushrally112500-130x100.jpg" alt="" />

I have my doubts as to whether that little girl put on that outfit out of her own choice. More than likely her father strapped the costume on and hoisted her up without a whole lot of input from her.

Well, I'm on your side here kronos; that photo manages to be disturbing and heartbreakingly sad at the same time.

I would say that the army is the American version of suicide bombers, but then I would never stop getting shit from you guys.

"Kill for your country, kill, kill, kill"

The way we acheive that might be a tad more civilized but the act and feeling is still there....

Do you honestly not see the difference between a civilized, organized military created to defend and protect American interests, and a bunch of terrorists whose sole intent is to murder as many civilians as possible?

Some of the decisions this "civilized military" made, make them, at times, seem just as low as the terriost.

The mass killing of innocents is not something only terriosts have done.... Oh wait yes it is.

When our Army is dedicated, not to be a global bully and neo-imperialist, but to the actual protection of it's citizens (which is, yes, what they do from time to time), then I will change my mind.

Eh?

I was saying our beloved U S of A is not above using terrorists acts.

I also can't spell terrorists...

Tell me, in your recollection, what's the most recent action taken by the U.S. Army that comes close to being on the level of the suicide/homicide bombers.

Bombing a little country in the middle east...

Oh but we had reasons ....

Anyway I'm not gonna change anyone's mind and no one is gonna change mine, so I would like to bow out peacefully....

for the night

Hey! Lay off of DT! Tony is a no-holds-barred dyed-in-the-wool isolationist...

...just like Pat Buchanan.

I'm not trying to pick on Tony, or be mean to anyone. I like Tony, I'm just trying to have a political discussion.

These things always get interpreted as being personal.

I was teasing Tony, Adam. Wasn't chastising you.

El_topo's (and a lot of the others) post is so incredibly off base and silly it's a waste of time to get upset about it.

Possibly. It could also be a protest against such things. I don't read Arabic, so the picture of Arafat in the background may well be a protest sign; I can't tell. The girl with the dowels around her waist may be the equivalent of the anti-abortionist's Plastic Fetus on Stick, i.e., "Look at how horrible this really is!"

Or you may be right. This may be a photo of murderous bastards. Hard to tell with no context.

I think a child who learned about guns and gun safety would be less likey to hurt someone. How many kids are shot and killed when they find a gun and start playing with it?

And i'm no expert, but i'm pretty sure that the Columbine shooters were not boy scouts.

Tony, I don't think I saw an answer to the question that was posed above...is it possible you can answer that? I am interested in hearing your side.

Columbine is not something that had one singel reason for it to happen. Guns were involved, bombs were involved. I don't think many people know that there were bombs in the cafeteria set to go off, but the timers failed. The resulting explosion would have left a hole where the lunchroom sat.

The Palestine People, in my opinion do not listen to Arafat as much anymore. The groups out there don't listen anymore. There is no control within Palestine. Everyone wants Isreal out (mostly everyone, I'll avoid future flames). Death and Blood is the only solution most people see.

On the other side, Isreal is damned orginzed. The Army is the most effiecient one out there, if not the most.

I don't see the connection with all the photos gentlemen. I really do not. I think that if you wish to get a thought across, perhaps an explanation that is backed up with rational and ideas presented so not to offend and divide.

And again, Tony, if I can get an answer that would be great. If not, that is also acceptable.

Thank you.

Anybody notice the little girl is making the peace sign?

Of course, it could be V for victory too....

<a href="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020416/ap_wo_en_ge/germany_protest_girl_2" target="_blank">http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020416/ap_wo_en_ge/germany_protest_girl_2</a>

Girl with mock explosives at pro-Palestinian protest triggers German investigation
Tue Apr 16, 5:16 PM ET

BERLIN - A girl who was paraded at a pro-Palestinian demonstration in Berlin wearing a mock explosives belt around her waist has touched off an investigation by justice officials.


Police are seeking the man who carried the girl on his shoulder at Saturday's protest, presumably her father, Berlin judicial spokeswoman Ariane Faust said Tuesday. Prosecutors have opened an investigation that could lead to criminal charges against the man for condoning acts of violence, she said.

Photos published in German newspapers showed the girl, apparently about five years old, with three sticks meant to resemble dynamite strapped around her waist — an allusion to Palestinian suicide bombers.

Interior Minister Otto Schily, the German government's top law enforcement official, called it an "outrageous" abuse of a child as an "advertisement for terrorist acts."

"This was open promotion of murder," said his Berlin city council counterpart, Eckhart Koerting.

About 11,000 demonstrators took part in the protest against Israel's military campaign in Palestinian areas.

(tc)

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And the story continues to devlelop...

[quote]kronos:
All the more reason for you to let the feds take care of things...

I received my Eagle Scout a few months ago, so let me tell you about Boy Scouts (I am also a bit of a hunter, not a big one, but I do go dove hunting every now and then). The more you know about firearms, the more you respect them. I don't mean learning about them on the internet. Kids who learn about firearms from adults, especially from Boy Scouts, respect those weapons and they also respect and know the difference between their targets. Yeah, I’m sure there has been a Boy Scout at some point who has shot someone on purpose. In fact, I'm pretty sure of it. But there are more deaths, murders, and accidental shootings involving firearms that are caused by people who are NOT trained in usage of those weapons than other wise. In fact, the margin here is pretty huge (I have no numbers, but if someone could find some, please feel free to post them).

I guess my point is that showing a kid aiming a gun at a regular paper target means shit. Also, teaching kids about weapons is not immoral or wrong in any sense. In fact, it's more moral because that kid is learning how to properly use that weapon, in other words, not using it to kill people with. I think people don't give enough credit to kids. If you teach a kid not to kill people with guns (which includes teaching him about life/death, and causes and consequence), he's probably not going to do it, unless he's mentally disturbed which, if the case, he'd probably get hold of the guns and the knowledge used to fire them and kill anyway.

The fact is that gun training does not really teach how to fire and gun. Any schmuck knows how to fire a gun. All kids know how to fire a gun. Give them a few minutes and they could figure out how to load it and everything (hey, look at the kids who haven't had training and who found their daddy's gun and fired it at their best friends on accident). Gun training teaches kids to handle weapons, to respect weapons, and to respect life. True, it does teach them how to fire with better accuracy, but, if a kid was so determined, he could do that on his own.

My point is that weapons training does not make anything worse. It makes it better. Maybe not that much better, but better nonetheless.

Let me present a short example. My family has always had guns. They didn't hide them from me. The showed me where they were. I always knew where those things were and what they could do (watching movies helped me realize that... and not just stupid action movies...). And, with that knowledge... I never, NEVER ONCE went into that closet to check out those guns. What the hell was the point? I knew they were there so there was no point in being curious, and I knew what they could do so what was the point in pretending? I had play guns to pretend with. I saw the distinction.

The problems come from parents who do NOT teach that distinction. Parents who do not tell their kids where the guns are, or who leave them unlocked or out in the open. The guns in my house were locked and hard to get to, but if I wanted to get in there, I could have. I knew where the keys were and I knew how to get to the guns. However, some kids don’t have the parents I had, and they end up in the ground or in jail for the rest of their lives.

I’m sure there have been Boy Scouts who have murdered with weapons. But, I bet they would have murdered anyway, regardless of their Scout training. Sometimes, people are just fucking crazy, and there ain’t nothing you can do to stop it.

So there ya go.

This rant brought to you by Cheese Biscuits… please don’t eat me.

I never got into OA because I wasn't very popular in my troop. To get in, remember, you have to voted in by your peers (at least that's how it worked in my troop). Well, I was the tough guy who was responsible and made people do things. I wasn't the best leader in the world. If I saw a kid misbehaving, I was always the one assigned to punish him. In the good cop/bad cop situation, I was the bad cop. Oh well. I made Eagle, and that's all that really counts anyway.

Everyone I know in the OA said their Ordeals consisted of sitting in the woods with nothing more than a sleeping bag for about 2 days, that and cleaning up after the other OA members at the meetings... very much like a frat. I never got the big deal. Oh well. My troop was pretty crappy. I do live in Alabama.

"It's good to see Scouting hasn't died at the hands of the liberal media."

What is the liberal media not responsible for at this point? Maybe they killed Christ as well....fuck....

Can you post in one thread Kronos where you dont eventually blame liberals in one way or another for some kind of heinous act?

Well it is run by Jews, right Kronos?

I spent the eighth grade learning from the school principal the Alberta Hunter Education Program, stem to stern. From identifying deer by their poo to shooting skeet to pouring bullets to orienteering. I consider it time well spent.

Every city kid should do this or something like it. Once a 13-year old feels how powerful a 12 gauge shotgun really is, they're not likely to turn that much firepower on a person. If they're so twisted that they would do so, they'd find a way whether you teach them to use the damn thing or not.

I love reading my own points made by other people - only longer, and the responses to those post. I guess more words makes the point better.

One of your "points". I don't know, how many kids are shot and killed when the find a gun and start playing with it? I know, let's line up all the stupid motherfuckers that owned the guns that fell into these poor kids' hands and then, to count these idiots, we'll gather up a bunch of four-year olds and let them put bullet to body one at a time.